At what point do we dissolve the USA ?

NC Susan

Deceased
http://thewashingtonstandard.com/point-break-usa

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February 27, 2017

AT WHAT POINT DO WE BREAK UP THE USA?
The Washington Standard / February 27, 2017

At what point do we break up the USA?



If your answer is “NEVER!” accompanied by some version of “How could you even consider seriously considering such a thing?!”, then you are a cultist.

An Americultist.

For the non-Americultists out there, the question – and it is an important one – stands:

At what point do we break up the USA?

How about at the point DC enforces a policy of open, systematic, “legal” child sacrifice?

Nope.

That’s been going on for decades. We’re apparently not willing to stand against the America Idol over that one.



What about the DC-imposed obliteration of marriage and the DC-enforced imposition of “gay marriage” across the land?

Nah, we won’t cut ourselves loose even after that.

The bottom line seems to be, for now anyway, that we’re way too thoroughly programmed, pimped out, and dependent on the DC-centered American Welfare/Warfare State for us to even consider severing the chains that we’ve come to love and depend upon.

But for more and more people, the question is building.

If we won’t break up the DC-centered State now, when will we?

What would push us over the line?

What would force us to finally say “no” and “goodbye” to American Statism?

There has to be a line somewhere, doesn’t there?

If not, we really are slaves, aren’t we?

We really are the most desperate and pathetic sort of cultists.

But if there is a point at which most of us can agree that secession or some other sort of solid, complete separation from DC power would become necessary, shouldn’t we be thinking now about what that point actually is?

Now consider this: What if, after beginning this thought process in a serious manner (many of us for the first time), we came to realize that the hard, impassable lines that we should set for secession or some similar thing were actually lines that were passed long ago by DC?

What if we came to realize that DC-imposed child sacrifice, “gay marriage”, and gender obliteration were more than enough to warrant – and even require – our leaving the DC-fueled anti-Christian empire?

What if along the way we realized that we actually should have broken up this DC beast a very long time ago?

Something to think about.

In order to help with this thought process, I want to share with you now another excellent article from the Mises Wire, simply titled Break Up the USA.

Check this out:

“Some of our assumptions are so deeply embedded that we cannot perceive them ourselves.

Case in point: everyone takes for granted that it’s normal for a country of 320 million to be dictated to by a single central authority. The only debate we’re permitted to have is who should be selected to carry out this grotesque and inhumane function.

Here’s the debate we should be having instead: what if we simply abandoned this quixotic mission, and went our separate ways? It’s an idea that’s gaining traction — much too late, to be sure, but better late than never.

For a long time it seemed as if the idea of secession was unlikely to take hold in modern America. Schoolchildren, after all, are told to associate secession with slavery and treason. American journalists treat the idea as if it were self-evidently ridiculous and contemptible (an attitude they curiously do not adopt when faced with US war propaganda, I might add).

And yet all it took was the election of Donald Trump for the alleged toxicity of secession to vanish entirely. The left’s principled opposition to secession and devotion to the holy Union went promptly out the window on November 8, 2016. Today, about one in three Californians polled favors the Golden State’s secession from the Union.

In other words, some people seem to be coming to the conclusion that the whole system is rotten and should be abandoned.

It’s true that most leftists have not come around to this way of thinking. Many have adopted the creepy slogan “not my president” – in other words, I may not want this particular person having the power to intervene in all aspects of life and holding in his hands the ability to destroy the entire earth, but I most certainly do want someone else to have those powers.

Not exactly a head-on challenge to the system, in other words. (That’s what we libertarians are for.) The problem in their view is only that the wrong people are in charge.

Indeed, leftists who once said “small is beautiful” and “question authority” had little trouble embracing large federal bureaucracies in charge of education, health, housing, and pretty much every important thing. And these authorities, of course, you are not to question (unless they are headed by a Trump nominee, in which case they may be temporarily ignored).

Meanwhile, the right wing has been calling for the abolition of the Department of Education practically since its creation in 1979. That hasn’t happened, as you may have noticed. Having the agency in Republican hands became the more urgent task.

Each side pours tremendous resources into trying to take control of the federal apparatus and lord it over the whole country.

How about we call it quits?

No more federal fiefdoms, no more forcing 320 million people into a single mold, no more dictating to everyone from the central state.

Radical, yes, and surely not a perspective we were exposed to as schoolchildren. But is it so unreasonable? Is it not in fact the very height of reason and good sense? And some people, we may reasonably hope, may be prepared to consider these simple and humane questions for the very first time.

Now can we imagine the left actually growing so unhappy as to favor secession as a genuine solution?

Here’s what I know. On the one hand, the left made its long march through the institutions: universities, the media, popular culture. Their intention was to remake American society. The task involved an enormous amount of time and wealth. Secession would amount to abandoning this string of successes, and it’s hard to imagine them giving up in this way after sinking all those resources into the long march.

At the same time, it’s possible that the cultural elite have come to despise the American bourgeoisie so much that they’re willing to treat all of that as a sunk cost, and simply get out.

Whatever the case may be, what we can and should do is encourage all decentralization and secession talk, such that these heretofore forbidden options become live once again.

I can already hear the objections from Beltway libertarians, who are not known for supporting political decentralization. To the contrary, they long for the day when libertarian judges and lawmakers will impose liberty on the entire country. And on a more basic level, they find talk of states’ rights, nullification, and secession – about which they hold the most exquisitely conventional and p.c. views – to be sources of embarrassment.

How are they going to rub elbows with the Fed chairman if they’re associated with ideas like these?

Of course we would like to see liberty flourish everywhere. But it’s foolish not to accept more limited victories and finite goals when these are the only realistic options.

The great libertarians – from Felix Morley and Frank Chodorov to Murray Rothbard and Hans Hoppe — have always favored political decentralization; F.A. Hayek once said that in the future liberty was more likely to flourish in small states. This is surely the way forward for us today, if we want to see tangible changes in our lifetimes. . . “

Something to think about.

And something to encourage others to think about.

At every opportunity.

Through actual conversations.

Really.

Right now. (Or yesterday, ideally.)

It’s way past time that we got in gear on this, so let’s start asking and answering important questions that we’ve been programmed to ignore and avoid for far too long.



Questions like:

At what point do we break up the USA?

Article reposted with permission from Fire Breathing Christian. Article by Scott Buss.
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NC Susan

Deceased
Frank Luntz: Americans Trust Their Own States But Not Washington
Feb 25, 2017
Frank Luntz is a news analyst and contributor to CBS News and the Fox News Channel

If there is one thing Democrats, Independents and Republicans agree on — and there is, in fact, only one thing — it’s that it’s time for a new relationship between the citizenry and their government. That philosophy is borne from resentment and a sense of betrayal, but it binds us together at a time when everything else in our collective lives are tearing us apart.
Skepticism and cynicism abounds from Atlantic to Pacific, from farm to factory, within urban centers and across suburban sprawl. Americans of all affiliations carry frustration, anger, and Mutually Assured Distrust (“MAD”) wherever they go, whenever they talk politics. Distrust is as omnipresent as the Kardashians. Americans are MAD as hell, but what matters more is that they’re not going to take it anymore.

Everyone still wants Change, but almost no one believes in Hope anymore. If we are to restore that enduring confidence that America’s best days are still ahead, we’ll need to find our strength somewhere far outside of Washington, because faith and trust in our federal government, bedrock to our democracy, is sorely lacking.

The American people are asking for – in fact, demanding – a “New Relationship” with their government at all levels. Our nationwide public opinion research at the National Governors Association last month offers a clear path forward. But this path does not lead to Washington D.C., but from it, to the 50 State Capitols.
Despite the difficult but consequential election, Americans are still not optimistic that a broken Washington will be fixed any time soon. My focus groups for CBS and Fox News are just as toxic today as they were six months ago. President Trump leads a deeply divided nation, and an abiding dislike for Congress and the Washington bureaucracy is among the few things that unites us. Americans are looking elsewhere for “real results and real solutions, for real people.” They are looking for their states, and especially their governors, to stand and deliver.

The data is clear and conclusive. For example, we asked “Overall, which level of government do you believe is doing a better job of serving its citizens and delivering results?” Fully 71% of voters chose “State Governments,” while just 29% chose “The Federal Government.” On this, America has achieved rare bipartisan agreement. By party, the spread is 82% state government to 18% federal government among Republicans (+64), 54% to 46% among Democrats (+8), and 77% to 23% among Independents (+54). And with Trump upsetting the Left every day, it’s likely that even more Democrats will choose the state government option in the months to follow.
------
We then asked Americans to consider government programs like healthcare, Medicaid, education and rebuilding our roads and infrastructure. “What is the best balance of control in terms of setting the rules and regulations and administering the programs?” Just under one-third (31%) want the federal government to be in control, while more than two-thirds of the country either want genuine federal-state power sharing (35%) or the states to hold the power advantage (35%). Republicans are overwhelmingly in the state government camp, but Independents and Democrats aren’t far behind.

It’s not just about the issues. It’s also about the people. Nearly half of Americans (45%) regard “America’s governors and state governments” favorably, while only 30% have a negative impression. By comparison, just 29% of the country has a favorable impression of Congress, while a majority (51%) hold a negative view. The federal government does even worse: 27% favorable, 56% unfavorable. I’d provide the partisan results, but they’re consistent across parties: everyone has a net favorable opinion of governors, and everyone dislikes Congress and the federal government – regardless of who’s in charge.

Voters of all stripes simply trust their governors far more than they trust their leaders in Washington. The number one reason among Democrats and Republicans alike: “State leaders are more responsive because they are closer to their constituents.” In a time when trust is scarce and with Americans demanding real progress right now, state governments and governors represent the best hope to win back to confidence of the voters and get the job done.

This isn’t an academic exercise or an ideological appeal for “federalism.” (Note to reader: Federalism is about taking power away from Washington. Many Americans think exactly the opposite.) It’s not about smaller or more limited government. Almost no one I interview cares about the size of government as much as the efficiency, effectiveness and accountability of government. Americans want to empower states and governors to take a more active role in that governance because they’ve given up on Washington – Trump or no Trump.

Support for greater state control isn’t about politics or partisanship. It’s about performance. In recent years, many states have made meaningful and measurable progress, while Washington stoked gridlock with meaningless and maddening false promises. Americans simply have greater favorability towards their governor (net +16% positive) and America’s governors and state governments (net +15%) and a more negative reaction towards the “federal government” (net -29%) and “Congress” (net -22%). Similarly, an overwhelming majority of voters (71%) believe their state is doing a better job of “serving its citizens and delivering results,” more than twice as many as the 29% who chose the federal government.

And here’s the encouraging part: Democrats, Republicans and Independents all agree.

On most policy issues and personal attributes, voters trust states and governors more than they trust Congress and the federal government. The NGA survey identified ten specific areas where Americans trust state governments more than the federal government. Of all of the issues and attributes, none are more important than “has the most dedicated public servants who are in it for the right reasons.” Here, state governments hold an overwhelming 30 percent lead.

The American people want their elected officials to fight for them rather than fight each other. They want cooperation, not confrontation. Message to Capitol Hill: even ordinary Republicans who have felt left out of national politics for the past eight years prefer compromise over uncompromising, unyielding principle by a margin of 58% to 42%.

Americans are demanding a new relationship with their government that prioritizes local leadership and local solutions rather than an inflexible one-size-fits all national approach to the myriad challenges facing the country.

A relationship that puts to an end the frustratingly failed practice of career politicians fighting so hard for votes on Election Day, only to return to Washington and dismiss the voices of those who cast them. Whether Democratic or Republican, old or young, Rust Belt or Sun Belt, Americans want to be represented by local leaders who say what they mean, mean what they say, and are willing to supplant the status quo in favor of a better future.

There’s a clear message here, if the politicians are willing to hear it. The New Relationship is not about shifting dollars or responsibilities between or across congressional committees or federal agencies. It’s about the complete restructure of government from the bottom up and the top down. It’s about giving states the responsibilities most of us believe they deserve. Americans are looking to the governors to be their voice. They want to be heard, yes. But more importantly, they want their Governors to lead.

There are notable exceptions, but for the most part, the American people believe their governors are succeeding. They aren’t holding their breath about Washington.


AREAS WHERE STATE GOVERNMENT IS MORE TRUSTED THAN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
-- “Has the most dedicated public servants who are in it for the right reasons:” (States +30%)
-- “Educating students and helping them achieve:” (States +28%)
-- “Offering quality workforce and job training programs:” (States +21%)
-- “Spending my tax dollars efficiently and effectively:” (States +16%)
-- “Has the most positive impact on my quality of life:” (States +14%)
-- “Listening to, representing and being accountable to us, the voters:” (States +14%)
-- “Delivering welfare programs for those who need it, while curbing waste and abuse:” (States +10%)
-- “Improving our roads, highways, transit and infrastructure.” (States +9%)
-- “Protecting the rights of workers, employees and small business owners:” (States +5%)-- “Creating new solutions that are more innovative and more focused on the future. (States +4%)

http://time.com/4682090/frank-luntz-america-relationship/?utm_content=buffer77d6b&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
 

Dozdoats

On TB every waking moment
At what point do we dissolve the USA ?

We did that once already. Didn't work out too well, and has IMO a lot to do with our current set of problems as well.

I don't believe it will happen peacefully, if in fact it ever happens at all. I think Balkanization is more likely than peaceful separation.
 

2dollarbill

any place I hang my hat
Some wild and crazy chit in that loaded question. Like doz, I believe it will be an all or nothing proposition. Nothing peaceful is coming out of this. One side wins, you know, winner takes all, PERIOD.

2db
 

vestige

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Some wild and crazy chit in that loaded question. Like doz, I believe it will be an all or nothing proposition. Nothing peaceful is coming out of this. One side wins, you know, winner takes all, PERIOD.

2db
This time it's for all the marbles.
 

fairywell

Veteran Member
At this point there is too much of an enmeshed relationship between the States and the Feds. Do not see this happening in my lifetime. But, "never say never", maybe one day. Hard to say, history has shown how unpredictable, volatile and fragile relationships are, so maybe.
 

Adino

paradigm shaper
President lincoln already dissolved it.

We have been living in an oligarchic lie ever since.
 

Millwright

Knuckle Dragger
_______________
Look at the electoral map from Trump's election.

There are a few areas that are the problem, areas that are headquarters for the socialist, FSA.

Separate them from the equation and things instantly become much calmer.

Granted, there are many, many other contributing issues, but the problem segment of the population is well defined.
 

Sacajawea

Veteran Member
Yes, look at those blue counties. How many people is that? Just because the total votes in a county resulted in a "Blue" choice... does that mean everyone there made that choice? Probably not.

And YET: they are the "messaging" army... they get the spotlight... they get the media attention. The media then bestows the title of "America" on them... as if all the red counties and voters simply don't exist. Don't mind them; they're not important. They don't share the same values we do - they don't COUNT as "America".

Trump is right; the media is the "opposition".

We've characterized the Left as "snowflakes" and "kool-aid drinkers" - attempting to turn the sword of contempt around on them. And Hillary famously doubled-down and labelled us "deplorable" - ie, less than "human"; BAD people.

This is one of the ugliest kinds of "domestic" squabbles there is. The kind that cops hate getting called to. No matter whether the choice is to accept the "evil they know" over the unknown or if someone leaves the situation entirely in order to survive - there is NO GOOD resolution without both parties sorting through everything, enough time for the anger and resentment to die down, and some personal reflection and owning up to being "part of the problem". That generally doesn't occur for YEARS.
 

Now-Later

Veteran Member
----at what point do we dissolve America,,as we know it---
It is coming and fast--it will be a tremendous fight --probably within a generation, but American as we know it will gone

After Trump, look out
 

dstraito

Has No Life - Lives on TB
I don't think action is needed, America is pretty much dissolving on its own.

Much like an unbalanced flywheel, the destructive gyrations will continue to get worse on their own.

The only way to fix things is to get a new flywheel made to original specs and professionally install it so it comes with a warranty.
 

Publius

TB Fanatic
With the discovery of the plans for a "North American Union" that was part of the deal that went with the "North American Free Trade Agreement" it was of a long term plan to destroy and overthrow the United States.
Theres no statue of limitations for these things and not even the president or former presidents are not exempt from prosecution, a sitting president must be impeached by congress & senate and subject to charges afterwards.
 
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OldArcher

.357 magnum- fer who ails ya...
At what point do we dissolve the USA ?

We did that once already. Didn't work out too well, and has IMO a lot to do with our current set of problems as well.

I don't believe it will happen peacefully, if in fact it ever happens at all. I think Balkanization is more likely than peaceful separation.
Concur, 100%, Dozdoats... If we could but "quarantine" or isolate LibTurd cities (wall them in), a major source of problems would disappear... Even better, encourage the inhabitants/infestants to emigrate, never, ever, to return... "Liberalism" is a fatal disease...

GBY&Y's, and Thank-You for all you do...

Maranatha

OldARcher
 

Doat

Veteran Member
At what point? "That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it." That question is up to the people.
 

Adino

paradigm shaper
I think Balkanization is more likely than peaceful separation.

I do too.

Although I see balkanization as inevitable, not an outlier scenario.
 

GammaRat

Veteran Member
I'd like to see Balkanization

I believe, there's no peaceful way of ridding this country of the useless idiots.

A GUARANTEED initiator of Civil War / Secession is removal of the Electoral College. The advocates for that, cant see that far into the future.
 

Texican

Live Free & Die Free.... God Freedom Country....
Concur, 100%, Dozdoats... If we could but
"quarantine" or isolate LibTurd cities (wall them in),
a major source of problems would disappear... Even better,
encourage the inhabitants/infestants to emigrate, never, ever, to return...
"Liberalism" is a fatal disease...

GBY&Y's, and Thank-You for all you do...

Maranatha

OldARcher
^^^^THIS^^^^

Make it a choice after the 2nd American Revolution, you live in walled in cities and provide your own needs....
Or....
Permanently emigrate out of America....

War is being forced on Freedom loving Americans and it will be fierce....

Be prepared to defend you family, friends and America for the leftist agenda to enslave America to their decrepit tenets....

President Trump Making America First and Great Again....

Texican....
A Proud Deplorable and Christian American....
Pray for continuing Blessings and Protection for President Trump and America....
 

vestige

Has No Life - Lives on TB
We've characterized the Left as "snowflakes" and "kool-aid drinkers" - attempting to turn the sword of contempt around on them. And Hillary famously doubled-down and labelled us "deplorable" - ie, less than "human"; BAD people.

This is one of the ugliest kinds of "domestic" squabbles there is. The kind that cops hate getting called to. No matter whether the choice is to accept the "evil they know" over the unknown or if someone leaves the situation entirely in order to survive - there is NO GOOD resolution without both parties sorting through everything, enough time for the anger and resentment to die down, and some personal reflection and owning up to being "part of the problem". That generally doesn't occur for YEARS.

When "it" happens I believe it will happen relatively quickly... coast to coast.... hard to predict duration... big country... maybe 2 years to resolution/defeat of one ideology


----at what point do we dissolve America,,as we know it---
It is coming and fast--it will be a tremendous fight --probably within a generation, but American as we know it will gone

After Trump, look out
The America I knew (and grew up in) was gone by the late 70s.

I don't think action is needed, America is pretty much dissolving on its own.

Much like an unbalanced flywheel, the destructive gyrations will continue to get worse on their own.

The only way to fix things is to get a new flywheel made to original specs and professionally install it so it comes with a warranty.
Good analogy.

I have said "take us back to 1955 and let us start over again."

Older folks may desire to retreat even further.
 

Ice Guy

Inactive
I hear Libs, especially non whites, refer to 1955 as the time of the Christian White man, and they have no interest in going back there. We will be forced to ram it down their throats at some point.
 

NoName

Veteran Member
I hear Libs, especially non whites, refer to 1955 as the time of the Christian White man, and they have no interest in going back there. We will be forced to ram it down their throats at some point.
Well, those that don't choke on it will survive.
 

bethshaya

Veteran Member
I think the keyword in the question is the word "we". WE don't dissolve it. It will be dissolved for us. Either through an act of God at the Rapture when things fall apart, or when the economy collapses and things fall apart, or civil war, when things fall apart. "We" doesn't exist anymore in this country. It is "them and us". One side will win and the country will either get better, pull itself up by the bootstraps and get on with it, or will fall into chaos and die.
 

Satanta

Stone Cold Crazy
_______________
I would not go betting on God or the Rapture to save your asses. Every single major event from the rollover from one Century to the next to things like the Holocaust and the Christians over in the M.E. getting slaughtered people have been waiting for "The Rapture".

Nice to hope for but you better be ready to fight like a madman. Trust in the Lord but keep your powder dry.

As far as dissolution of the U.S.? Not without a fight. Cali and people that think like that always ignore a lot of things such as-who in the world is bigger and badder than you and will walk in and slaughter your dumb asses after you "Dissolate" yourself?

It's not the 1700's where it takes weeks or months with limited capacity to move goods and troops. Your dumb ass leaves and in the morning you may have a Chinese overlord shooting you in the face.

Plus there are people like me. LOTS of people like me who would rather just put a bullet in your head and get on with our lives than tolerate your song and dance of phetoric and bullshit while you petend like you are scary.
 

vestige

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Pertinent post Sat.

I would not go betting on God or the Rapture to save your asses. Every single major event from the rollover from one Century to the next to things like the Holocaust and the Christians over in the M.E. getting slaughtered people have been waiting for "The Rapture".

Nice to hope for but you better be ready to fight like a madman. Trust in the Lord but keep your powder dry.
So much to say... so little time.

At this particular time...

best to be waiting on the delivery of your next pallet of ammunition.

Good luck to all Deplorables.

You others can go to hell.
 

Thomas Paine

Has No Life - Lives on TB
I'd like to see Balkanization

I believe, there's no peaceful way of ridding this country of the useless idiots.
No you really wouldn't , and I believe as you there is no way to rid ourselves of these idiots peacefully but balkanization burns down the house, the yard, and the neighbor's houses and yards to kill some rats.
 

shane

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Rising talk of secession here in Texas, I support.

But, more with the idea that if it eventually ever starts looking possible I think the Feds
will be eager to work much harder to fix the biggest reasons why Texans would want to.

But, I'm also reminded that's really how our break with Britain began, too. Most, in the
beginning, had no desire or intent of starting a new country, they just wanted the king
to back off and treat them fairer.

- Shane
 
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