OT/MISC Article: Every Woman's Story Counts, Feminism/Everyday Sexism

Mudkip

Inactive
Ignoring articles talking about Sarah Palin being pulled from Fox News, the feminists bring me a tale, an opinion article, that I need to read to prepare myself for yet another day tomorrow in a "man-led world."
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link: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/soray...5952.html?utm_hp_ref=fb&src=sp&comm_ref=false

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Every Woman's Story Counts -- Including Yours

Stories make our culture and then our culture turns around and makes us. In this way, we teach children how to be and inform the distribution and protection of rights. As it is, we have a world-shaping imbalance in our story telling. Our stories do not teach children that girls and women have independent agency and moral competence. So, why should they grow up to claim them as women or respect them in women as adults?

This is why telling girls' and women's stories is important. Every story counts.

Our stories should show that women are UNexceptional and, as such, being a woman is an equally valid way of being human. Flooding the world with our stories challenges the male norms that pervasively define human life. Our media injustice has a dynamic relationship with our human rights injustice.

I am often overwhelmed by women writing to me to express their gratitude for something I have written. Essentially, they are thankful for another woman's speaking out loud about what so many of us experience. This turns out to be a common experience for many who do what I do. Many women live with feelings of doubt and are alone with their thoughts - thoughts often framed by the shame that many cultures attribute to just being female. Because the realm of women's lives has been private and mens' public we have had no positive cultural lexicon that women could share or could place their experiences in the context of. But, now we do. Whether it is a famous model like Christy Turlington talking about the complexities and dangers of giving birth or a writer like Mona Eltahawy asking "Why do they hate us?" or an ordinary person, like runner Anne Valente, writing about how public spaces where harassment is common make the world hostile for girls and women. Your story counts.

If people could say the word menstruation out loud without dying of shame they would be able to understand that women are not pregnant two weeks before conception. Maybe if words for women's body parts weren't used as insults, we wouldn't have legislators that think it's OK to legislate medical decisions they have no business being involved in. Maybe if people realized that women have always worked, just not for compensation, they wouldn't say stupid things like making "money is more important for men." Maybe if people understood that men throw acid that melts people on women, like Sonali Mukherjee they would be less likely to think playing "Beat Up Anita Sarkeesian" is acceptable or funny. And they would stop voting for people who think violence against women is exaggerated. Maybe if people understood that women's lives have value in and of themselves as opposed to as a means to someone else's end, they would not be in such a mad rush to sacrifice them. Maybe if people knew that "every German female between 8 and 80" was raped during WWII when the Russians entered Berlin or that girls are being raped to death in militarized zones they would not so defend rape as a source of entertainment or absurd metaphor. Maybe we wouldn't be on the verge of abandoning American women's rights for money.

I'll stop now. Except to say that Girls on Film , which remakes classic movie scenes with women, is one of the best, funniest and creative ways of dealing with this challenge that I've had the pleasure to see in a long time.

Also, this is not to discount the amazing work of individuals and organizations, like those listed below to address this imbalance. But, I am tired of hearing, in response to almost anything I write, "Where are the men's stories? I don't see any "Men's sections!"" In general, I don't like gender binaries - they roundly ill-serve everyone. However, this one is unavoidable: Everywhere in the world our cultural narrative is unabashedly male-dominated. People who ask this question are like fish trying to contemplate water.

In media, as in all areas of leadership, we have a 17% problem. Regardless of what media you chose - or sector of culture including government and business leadership, women make up somewhere between 17-20% of producers and contributors, especially at senior levels and where money and decision making happen. The status of Women in Media, while slowly changing, is incontrovertible. News. Movies and Entertainment. Gaming. History and literature. Magazines. Political narrative. Online communities. School curricula. The number is, mercifully, slightly higheron line. In advertising - a major form of very visible content - 97% of creative directors are men. In movies, 75% of all producers, 80% of all editors, 86% writers, 95% of all directors are men. On screen 77% of all protagonists in top grossing films are male.

The result: We tell every conceivable kind of story about boys and men - . Whereas we continue to shroud the complexity and diversity or women's life experiences in invisibility, shame and silence.

To be clear, I enjoy men's stories. Like most women, I learned early to empathize with what it's like to be male. But this isn't about men (that's a SUPER hard concept for some people). It's about institutionalized sexism and misogyny, millenial narrative imbalance and distortion, and the real social, political and cultural effects of this imbalance. When people say things that reflect a complete and utter ignorance about the reality of women's lives - their abilities, their bodies, their worries, their ambitions - it is because we haven't told them, before now, about the reality of women's lives.

Today, it is especially important to tell specific stories that every girl should know- those that explain that every girl's and woman's body is her own and not the property of others or society. This has nothing to do with political affiliation. Stories about our street harassment, rapes, our second rapes, our abortions, our domestic abuse , our risky and frightening pregnancies, our more likely impoverishment, our specific health concerns, our pregnancy-related imprisonments and seizures, our ambivilient motherhoods. We need to talk about the real, tangible effects of EVERYDAY SEXISM. We need to share stories of the entrenched biases we encounter, the subtle sidelining at the hands of condescending benevolent sexists, the male norms that marginalize us and the ways in which we adapt.

To be sure, we have women in stories, and we have men and women telling women's stories, but consider this:

First, we continue to tell men's stories in ways that perpetuate traditional sexist notions of gender. In entertainment media - women are young, ubiquitously sexualized, usually isolated, competitive and objectified - literally made into products. A common ratio is 1-2 females to every 8-10 males and the two women are usually competing. In children's programming females make up 32% of voices and are four times more likely to have bodies that cannot contain internal organs. Reality TV would be impossible without its backstabbing women. It's why I argue with my daughters about watching television shows with names like "Gossip Girls," and "Pretty Little Liars." We teach children - boys and girls - that women are untrustworthy and morally inept. They are not capable of leadership and are, instead, vain, frivolous, competitive and much worse. This is a classicMiss Representation?

Second, you'd have to be living under a rock in the Gobi desert to not see how girls and women are sexualized everywhere as objects and products or to think men are treated equally in this manner. The male brain in particular perceives women as objects, not humans, when they are sexualized. The more women are sexualized the more they are seen as animals and the more likely they are to be viewed for their useful, component parts instead of as whole human beings.

Third, we additionally dehumanize girls and women by dissecting them visually and comparing them to animals. NBC just mastered the art of sexualization and dissection during the Olympics. This is literally the chopping up of female bodies in imagery to focus on valuable body parts. Consider celebrity bump patrols. These are pictures of women's uteruses. Can you imagine entire magazines filled with dozens of pictures of men's testicles circled in bright red with headlines like "Can Chris Hemsworth's sperm breathe properly?" or "Do Justin Beieber's tighty-whitey's support his anti-abortion opinions?"

Fourth, as far as calling women animals, everyone does it. She's a cougar or a vixen or a fox. Men are henpecked. On and on and on. During a preview for the show "Don't Trust the Bitch in Apartment 21" in a Loew's movie theatre Loew's didn't want to use the word "bitch" in a voice over after the preview for the TV show, so they changed it to the "family friendly" "girls." The result was that they taught the 100 plus preteen children in the theatre that "girls" and "bitch" were interchangeable and that in either case they were not to be trusted. Conservative legislators and media excel at endlessly describing women as domesticated livestock. It's revealing: these animals are docile, dumb, tame. They aren't threatening, don't think for themselves and they have sex when the farmer wants them to. They are a consumable resource and ultimately sacrificable. Women of color, on the other hand, get to be rapacious breeding dogs.

Lastly, we use shallow and misleading euphemisms to hide the ubiquitous threat and actuality of violence against women. Words like "child brides." We had to have rape tragedies like the abuse of boys by priests and coaches - abuse rooted in perverse understandings of sex, power and gender - in order to point out the fact that media should not be calling rape crimes "sex scandals." In these ways and more, we glamorize violence against women and allow people with power to lie with impunity in order to cater to outdated "respectable" notions about what types of content and conversation are socially acceptable and "family friendly."

Why does it matter? Because when girls and women are culturally dehumanized we lose our personhood and our rights are not assured, if we even had them in the first place.

When children grow up immersed in environments that don't challenge these ideas they grow up to be people who want to "beat the gay" out of their children and seriously believe that rape causes women to internally ooze contraceptives and that rapidly dividing cells has "new life trumps existing life." They grow up to believe women's dignity is defined by how they manage their wombs and that women's rights must be mediated by benevolent father figures because women are ultimately morally incompetent. They grow up to be presidential and vice presidential candidates and nominees, who "absolutely" support these ideas , but do not appear to care about about the implications for real, individual, fully developed human girls and women who don't conform to their ideals of what makes a female "good."

The only way any of these ideas persists if you teach people through stories and pictures that girls and women are sub-human abstractions and religious ideals and not autonomous, morally competent human beings with rights.

I believe, maybe naively, that every voice makes a difference and girls and women and like-minded men have unprecedented ways to confront this imbalance. This is why we need to infuse culture with women's stories. This is why Laura Bates started the Everyday Sexism Project . It's why Holly Kearl started Stop Street Harassment. Why Ben Atherton-Zemon started Voice of Men (yes, a man and men's voices in defense of women's stories) and why you should share your stories openly, without shame or fear.

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There is a list of her sources on the link and she dedicates this article to the ignorance of George Galloway and Todd Atkin.
 

mzkitty

I give up.
Soraya Chemaly
Feminist, Satirist and Media Critic


She's right. And it's all too sad, isn't it?

:(
 

Mudkip

Inactive
Soraya Chemaly
Feminist, Satirist and Media Critic

She's right. And it's all too sad, isn't it?
:(

I'm willing to agree with her on about half of her points. Feminism tends to tip the scales towards females in an unequal way. True equality would not elevate one gender above another. In regards to jobs, it should be the best person for the job and like it or not, females and males excel in very different ways in numerous different skill sets. We should embrace the differences between men and women, not deepen the resentment.

The real tragedy in "women's rights" is that they assume the fetus she carries is a part of her body and go so far as to claim the fetus isn't even human. I can tirelessly complain about abortion and will stop here.

I made the note on the Sarah Palin/Fox News article because the very things she's thumping about are completely ignoring that a woman is being bus driven by the very same "evil media." Yet, Sarah Palin seems exempt from the warm embrace of feminists as she's openly despised in this article by Soraya herself:

"When children grow up immersed in environments that don't challenge these ideas they grow up to be people who want to 'beat the gay' out of their children and seriously believe that rape causes women to internally ooze contraceptives and that rapidly dividing cells has 'new life trumps existing life.' They grow up to believe women's dignity is defined by how they manage their wombs and that women's rights must be mediated by benevolent father figures because women are ultimately morally incompetent. They grow up to be presidential and ---vice presidential candidates--- and nominees, who "absolutely" support these ideas , but do not appear to care about about the implications for real, individual, fully developed human girls and women who don't conform to their ideals of what makes a female 'good.'"

Granted, we can not live by exceptions but by the rules. However, feminism is a jumble of irony. Whereas I can get behind the disgust of rape culture and the push to empower rape victims, I can not advocate the complete and utter ignorance behind it. What do they do to achieve this goal of empowering the victim? Slutwalk, where you dress like a "slut" and take back the word. Truly "own" being a "slut." I've made countless suggestions to my community about what can be done for not only rape victims, but women in general. Instead of these walks that end up at bars, set up a day of free or very cheap self defense classes. Gather women together to learn firearms and training. Get the local police department involved -with- them to gain a better understanding on both sides of the fence. Teach women what can and can not be done on the police side when rape occurs. Information can be so powerful if only it were available. Let's go further with this and get the parents involved. Have support groups that meet weekly and encourage parental involvement. I could just go on forever.

I can appreciate her heart might be in the same place, as with many feminists, but they just can't see past an agenda to actually achieve any good. There should not be a war on masculinity to validate women.

I'll stop babbling, but basically, I posted this because it's a very good example of whining without any proposal of -how- and -what- to FIX the problems.
 

mzkitty

I give up.
Some people write the ideas, others carry them out. I'm not taking sides here. I'm a woman too, and I don't like to argue about it myself. Why are we fighting each other as women? We all have different opinions, right? Why turn things into a war of ideas, just like men can do? Education, all kinds of it, is the answer. Bringing the light into the topic and the world..... To aim for the highest ideal is never out of fashion, but a lot of girls/women are not raised to think for themselves, so the problem is how to reach them, to show them a better way. If you can do that in some ways, more power to you. More power to Sarah too. And more power to Soraya. More power to us all, to be able to walk in the world unafraid. That day will come. Don't you think?
 

Mudkip

Inactive
Why are we fighting each other as women?

I do not wish to demean everything else you wrote, your opinion just as important as mine, but this stuck out to me.

This phrase right here is repeated everyday on facebook to any woman who takes the time to pick apart rhetoric by a woman on "women's rights." Why are my words an "attack" on her and all women everywhere? Please explain this, I hope you will where others would not.

If a man were to say what I said, I would completely expect women to cry "you will never understand, you're a man." I'm a woman and according to her article, I'm being used, abused, and under the heel of all these hardships. If her article were pointing these hardships out and calling for female solidarity, then sure, I'd call her an idea woman.

Her article started strong. She had me the first couple of sentences. Of course every woman's story counts. We're all human. Of course we should teach our children, yes! Should we not teach our girls to be independent and thrive and give them all the tools? Yes, yes and more yes! Then, it became women v. men. Over the course of the article she manages to make points on government, business, media, culture, and finally "rights."

Wouldn't we better serve all womanhood by acknowledging children as the root of all humanity? Our start, our future, and the strength of women everywhere? We carry the future. Our bodies make their hands, brains, and toenails. How can we even begin to tackle the complexity of child brides, media bias, rape, and equality when the movement itself won't acknowledge the beginning of life? We just glaze over the new human in our bodies by saying the mother gets to choose who lives and dies because it's her choice and we call this "women's rights." It's not rights. We've lost our "awe."

I bear her no ill will on a personal level. I quite, QUITE, agree with you on education, in all forms, on all subjects. I completely agree with you that this is a matter of ignorance. The fault lies here: the education is bought and sold. Were there just as many clinics for adoption as there are planned parenthoods, a good step. In school, our children should be taught that life begins at conception. That's not a religious belief, that's a scientific fact. At that fusion, new individual, human DNA is created. Is that not life? Parents aren't parents anymore, family units are a thing of the past. I've spiraled. I apologize for that.

Yes, we all have different opinions but there things that are good for us and things that are bad. Things that deter the continuation of humanity.

The very idea that there needs to be equality between the genders creates a divide all its own. It achieves the exact opposite of its purpose.
 

Flashyzipp

Veteran Member
Great article! I wish I could share it on my facebook. However, as a Christian, I cannot. I've been studying this for 2 years now in college. Just because I believe that the government should NOT control a woman's body doesn't mean I believe in abortion . . . argh! Why can't people understand that concept??? I could go on and on! There is so much more to the gov dictating which health studies have been done to further health care for women, etc. Most of the medical studies over the years have been done on men. Believe it or not, they've just recently been studying breast cancer.

However, it is what it is and we live in a patriarchal society like it or not. Feminists have brought us a long way and I sallute them and consider myself one. That's an interesting definition also that has sparked debate with me and my Christian friends . . .
 

mzkitty

I give up.
Why are my words an "attack" on her and all women everywhere? Please explain this, I hope you will where others would not.

I didn't say you're attacking her. She is attempting to cover a lot of ground in her article. People can't undo thousands of years of mis-education and ignorance in one article. It's a struggle for all women everywhere, regardless of who they are, how educated or not they are, how much money they have, etc. As Flashyzipp said, we live in a patriarchy and it's always been that way. Groping for the light is an individual and group endeavor, and obviously still has a long way to go. We keep on keeping on, you know?

Women should never have had to fight this fight, but these were the world conditions we were all born into at this time. Things are better than they were, but not as good as they should be. It's up to each woman to understand the spark of the Divine within themselves (information largely withheld by society), and go from there.

:)
 

Flashyzipp

Veteran Member
Why are my words an "attack" on her and all women everywhere? Please explain this, I hope you will where others would not.

I didn't say you're attacking her. She is attempting to cover a lot of ground in her article. People can't undo thousands of years of mis-education and ignorance in one article. It's a struggle for all women everywhere, regardless of who they are, how educated or not they are, how much money they have, etc. As Flashyzipp said, we live in a patriarchy and it's always been that way. Groping for the light is an individual and group endeavor, and obviously still has a long way to go. We keep on keeping on, you know?

Women should never have had to fight this fight, but these were the world conditions we were all born into at this time. Things are better than they were, but not as good as they should be. It's up to each woman to understand the spark of the Divine within themselves (information largely withheld by society), and go from there.

:)
Well said!
Once upon a time, women didn't have to really fight this fight. Before the industrial revolution, we were considered equals with men because women, men and their children worked on the family farm to provide food. It wasn't until men went to work for actual money and the women stayed home that the work women did was considered not as valuable as man's work because the women didn't bring home the actual $$.
 

mzkitty

I give up.
Well said!
Once upon a time, women didn't have to really fight this fight. Before the industrial revolution, we were considered equals with men because women, men and their children worked on the family farm to provide food. It wasn't until men went to work for actual money and the women stayed home that the work women did was considered not as valuable as man's work because the women didn't bring home the actual $$.

Well....... perhaps to an extent in THIS country, Flashy. But world-wise, no. Look at how long FGM has been going on. Look how long the Muslims have held women in contempt. Even in Christianity in the Middle Ages women were held hostage as chattel for "proper" marriages, lands, fortunes, etc. How long has it been since they did away with foot-binding in China? How long has it been since they stopped burning widows on their husband's funeral pyres in India?

Where did men get this idea that women were inferior? To me, it's Satan himself.

LOL, true!
 

Mudkip

Inactive
In a world view, I tend to draw back and only focus on my country. I can't change another religion or country's view on their own people, particularly women.

What bothers me if the assumption that this article speaks for all women on all points. As with Flashy, MOST feminist women are pro-choice but even in that, women are being lied to. Abortion is not good for the mother and is the death of her child. When you naturally miscarry, there is a physical impact on your health and your mental well being. Abortion is anything but "women's health." It's a billion dollar industry that feeds on the miseducation of women, in fact, it preys on them, of many ages.

I appreciate the fight women before have fought so that I could have the choice of staying home with my children OR going to work in any career and being anything I want. Pay grades should reflect the work and skill level and not the gender. Is this always complied with? No. Are there advantages being taken in affirmative action that actually hurt the work force, of course.

I worry about the world I give my daughters. I want them to know they can be anything they want and that many women had to fight for and put up with many barriers that were once in their way. They can pursue any religion they wish and should not have to be ashamed of it. If they want to be stay at home mothers, I don't want anyone treating them like they "couldn't do" any better or other women making them feel like they've failed women everywhere.

Perhaps the best thing feminism could do is completely focus on making women love themselves again. To be proud that they can bear children, to be worthy of a man who will wait to have sex with them, to find a man who will stick with them, to foster father-daughter relationships that she will benefit from for years to come.

There are many holes in our society but I don't think it's a purely -women's- fight to fill them.

In case you wonder where I get my information, I would look up medical journals on miscarriage and if you can find them anymore, on abortion, health facts and one former abortion clinic administrator: Carol Everett.

Every woman in America needs to hear HER STORY.

http://prolifeaction.org/providers/everett.php

a video of her experiences: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXZCOaRVrbg&feature=related
 

mzkitty

I give up.
Mudkip, I am not going to read your link. Do you know how many times the abortion issue has been raised on TB over the years? I don't think you have to worry about your daughters, if you raised them right, which I'm sure you did. As for the world, you can't worry about that. They will get as far as their own dreams, hopes, ambitions, and education will take them. I read something here a few days ago that Condoleeza Rice said. She said even though she saw she was being raised in the most deep part of the segregated South and couldn't even have a coke at the Woolworth's counter, her parents raised her to believe she could be President. And she said, look how far I got. Granted, she "gave up" a husband and her own kids, but that's what she wanted -- to live in the White House. She came real close.

:)
 

Chair Warmer

Membership Revoked
Raped, pregnant and ordeal not over

By Shauna Prewitt, Special to CNN
updated 2:46 PM EDT, Thu August 23, 2012


Editor's note: Shauna R. Prewitt is a lawyer in Chicago. She is the author of "Giving Birth to a 'Rapist's Child': A Discussion and Analysis of the Limited Legal Protections Afforded to Women Who Become Mothers Through Rape," written for the Georgetown Law Journal.


Chicago, Illinois (CNN) -- When I was in law school, my criminal law professor introduced us to the crime of rape by reading us a quote from Lord Chief Justice Sir Matthew Hale, a 17th-century English jurist: "In a rape case it is the victim, not the defendant, who is on trial."

It was not merely a history lesson. I had lived it.

While a student in my final year of college, at age 21, I was raped. I have dissected that moment -- the horrifying moment that I became a "victim" -- from every possible angle. I have poked and prodded, examined and re-examined. Regrettably, I have even suspected myself in a desperate, ultimately futile attempt to understand how I became a victim.

But blaming myself was neither my idea nor my first inclination. I thought such 17th-century notions were long dead. I was wrong. People who did not even know me were quick to comment or speculate on my rape. What were you wearing? Did you scream loudly? Did this occur in public?

'Legitimate rape' reaction, from the Congo to black crickets

As my history lesson said, I found myself on trial, facing the most fierce judge and jury: ignorance.

Eight years after my rape, I find myself on trial against ignorance again. Rep. Todd Akin's recent comments that "legitimate rape" rarely results in pregnancy not only flout scientific fact but, for me, cut deeper. Akin has de-legitimized my rape.

You see, nine months after my rape, I gave birth to a beautiful little girl. You could say she was conceived in rape; she was. But she is also so much more than her beginnings. I blissfully believed that after I finally had decided to give birth to and to raise my daughter, life would be all roses and endless days at the playground. I was wrong again.

It would not be long before I would learn firsthand that in the vast majority of states -- 31 -- men who father through rape are able to assert the same custody and visitation rights to their children that other fathers enjoy. When no law prohibits a rapist from exercising these rights, a woman may feel forced to bargain away her legal rights to a criminal trial in exchange for the rapist dropping the bid to have access to her child.

When faced with the choice between a lifetime tethered to her rapist or meaningful legal redress, the answer may be easy, but it is not painless. For the sake of her child, the woman will sacrifice her need to see her once immensely powerful perpetrator humbled by the court.

I know it because I lived it. I went to law school to learn how to stop it.

Having fought this injustice for the past several years, I have come to believe that ignorance is to blame for this legal absence. Opponents argue no woman would ever choose to raise the child she conceived through rape. The only two studies to analyze the choices made by pregnant raped women indicate otherwise -- at least 30% of women who conceive by rape make this choice.

Others argue that no rapist would ever seek parental rights. Not only does my experience and that of others I know prove otherwise, but it is not surprising that a man who cruelly degrades a woman would also seek to torture her in an even more agonizing way, by seeking access to her child.

Today, it seems we may face a new and unbelievable challenge: convincing legislators that women can conceive when they are raped.

Make no mistake, my efforts and the efforts of others to persuade legislators to pass laws restricting the parental rights of men who father through rape will be directly impacted by Akin's recent comments. Whether these efforts will be helped or hurt, however, depends upon us as a society.

Either we will fight ignorance and take steps to legislate for raped women based upon reason and facts, or we will be led by ignorance and continue to make bad laws. Or fail to make good ones.


http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/22/opinion/prewitt-rapist-visitation-rights/index.html
 

naturallysweet

Has No Life - Lives on TB
She hasn't well thought out all her arguments. I Bet she doesn't even have a clue that planned murderhood considers a woman two weeks pregnant before conception.
 

Mudkip

Inactive
Mudkip, I am not going to read your link... And she said, look how far I got. Granted, she "gave up" a husband and her own kids, but that's what she wanted -- to live in the White House. She came real close.

:)

I understand, links being thrown around everywhere. I know I'm not the first to thump about abortion, but I do think the attitude towards it is a large part of the breakdown of our society. I really and truly believe that if we can't hold any awe for the beginning of life, then we are truly lost.

Thank you for the responses, both of you. I appreciate the time you both took to read and the food for thought you have both given me.
 

mzkitty

I give up.
One of my old friends was raped by her sergeant while in the Army. She kept her child, who I always thought had lots of little problems, but that's neither here nor there. Her rapist was brought up on some kind of charges and made to pay child support until the child was 18. I believe he wanted to see "his" daughter, and his wife along with that (poor addled woman). The answer was HELL NO. My friend sent him the child's birth picture and that's it. I don't see how she did it, frankly. But that was HER life and HER decision. Not mine. Not anyone else's.
 

Mudkip

Inactive
She hasn't well thought out all her arguments. I Bet she doesn't even have a clue that planned murderhood considers a woman two weeks pregnant before conception.

What is truly ignorant in that argument is that birth, pregnancy, and abortion has always considered this. It's common medical practice. Your due date is calculated from your last period because technology is not there yet to firmly state the exact moment of conception.

It's not the "absurdity" of two weeks before conception, it's the legal loss of two weeks a woman has left to abort. Is it not a hallmark of pro-choice that they are against ultrasounds?

It will always irk me that abortion is called women's health when it is the direct opposite. If natural miscarriage wreaks havoc on a mother's body, why is it so unbelievable that an abortion would damage you as well?

I have and will continue to argue that there should be an adoption clinic next to every planned parenthood. I won't hold my breath for PP to include an adoption wing in their clinics. They don't even offer it as an idea. Abortion first and only. Ask me how I know.
 

mzkitty

I give up.
There are many adoption agencies everywhere. Don't women know about them before they choose to go to Planned Parenthood? Maybe someone(s) ought to get together and do something to promote adoption on their own instead of trying to force an entrenched entity to change?

Flank attack, sort of?
 

Chair Warmer

Membership Revoked
One of my old friends was raped by her sergeant while in the Army. She kept her child, who I always thought had lots of little problems, but that's neither here nor there. Her rapist was brought up on some kind of charges and made to pay child support until the child was 18. I believe he wanted to see "his" daughter, and his wife along with that (poor addled woman). The answer was HELL NO. My friend sent him the child's birth picture and that's it. I don't see how she did it, frankly. But that was HER life and HER decision. Not mine. Not anyone else's.

A woman can say HELL NO all she wants to, but that isn't going to matter when the courts say YES on visitation or even full custody.

And OJ has his kids.
 

Mudkip

Inactive

Thank you for posting this. Rape victims do go through so much more than anyone who has not been raped would never conceive. Along with the perpetuated myth that they had it coming in some way, is also the misconception that rape is about sex. It's not about sex or you as a sexual object, it's about power.

In her legal endeavors, and all rape advocacy, we would be wise to make the motivation behind rape a lot more evident and clear than it is now. I've seen, heard, and read many rape stories and even the victim is under the falsehood that their attacker was after sex and only sex. Rape is an invasion of the mind, soul, -and- body. It snaps the fragile trust a woman had in her fellow man. She will relive the event and she will forever question "where was someone, anyone, who would help me? Did no one hear my screams?"

Of course women can get pregnant from rape. If anyone takes that statement any other way, you are talking to a stupid individual.

For a moment, however, I think legitimate rape was the wrong phrase. If you read his entire quote, he was talking about the child conceived from rape and not the woman's body, but I can't change media coverage or what the public will remember.

Again, thank you all for responding.
 

Mudkip

Inactive
There are many adoption agencies everywhere. Don't women know about them before they choose to go to Planned Parenthood? Maybe someone(s) ought to get together and do something to promote adoption on their own instead of trying to force an entrenched entity to change?

Flank attack, sort of?

Well, not only is adoption really hushed up for people 30's and younger, but the adoption process itself is more complex that ever necessary. People my age and younger are taught about abortion in school but not once is adoption mentioned or covered. There are many young girls who are sexually active right now who believe that pill or condom is keeping her safe from pregnancy. When she gets pregnant, where will she go? That's right, she's gonna go to planned parenthood. What are they gonna say to her? "Oh you can take care of this now or would you like me to call you mom and dad????" What is that scared little girl going to do?

Abortion is a business. It's clients are also it's victims.

I have been off and on planning on what I can do to elevate adoption, but other than siding with a church or a non-profit of some sort. I'm not business minded. I do know the average adoption takes at least a year, often two. The validation process is humiliating and stacked against you getting a child. I could really go on, but I'll stop.

It comes back to the big one here, education. Acknowledgement of the beginning of life would go a long way. It would be less easy to justify and compartmentalize women if everyone understood the power and importance of conception and children. It's so sad that women are not respected more and children are garbage.
 

Flashyzipp

Veteran Member
Well....... perhaps to an extent in THIS country, Flashy. But world-wise, no. Look at how long FGM has been going on. Look how long the Muslims have held women in contempt. Even in Christianity in the Middle Ages women were held hostage as chattel for "proper" marriages, lands, fortunes, etc. How long has it been since they did away with foot-binding in China? How long has it been since they stopped burning widows on their husband's funeral pyres in India?

Where did men get this idea that women were inferior? To me, it's Satan himself.

LOL, true!

That may be true in Muslim areas but there are plenty of matriarchal societies in the world and have been in the past. We only hear about the ones that are not that way.
 

mzkitty

I give up.
That may be true in Muslim areas but there are plenty of matriarchal societies in the world and have been in the past. We only hear about the ones that are not that way.

I should look that up sometime. I'm going to assume that none of these are in cold weather climates.
 
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