OT/MISC Alec Baldwin Fired Prop Gun That Killed Cinematographer Halyna Hutchins and Injured Director. New Charges Filed!

To-late

Membership Revoked
“Safety procedures on the New Mexico set of the movie Rust were under increasing scrutiny on Sunday as colleagues, friends and family paid tribute to the cinematographer shot dead by the actor Alec Baldwin in what appeared to be an accidental misfire.”
an accidental misfire?? It fired. It wasn’t a misfire at all!
already they are trying to shift the blame away from Baldwin!!
 

night driver

ESFP adrift in INTJ sea
She will do a very discrete investigation and that INCLUDES all of the pertaining rules of weapon handling in and around a film set.
Don't get all pissed off if someone you never heard of gets indicted.
*I* won't be surprised if Alec gets indicted for his role as producer, but NOT for the actual shooting.
 

West

Senior
Is Baldwin that good a shot?
he could be.


As you well know, we are not newbies to life.

Yes he is that good of a shot! He's been around the block. Just like you and me. Do you know your trade/business inside and out and upside down?

Yes we all do!

I'm still thinking it was a hit! She had something on him. Or her family did.

Just my wag. And feelings.
 

Outlaw-16

Contributing Member
A whole lot of speculation as to what happened.

Will we, the general public, ever really know what happened? 50/50.

What is interesting, and I have no idea if every single film company does this, but just prior to this event, I was watching Punisher: War Zone the movie based on the comic and graphic novels. In the special features there were scenes of the camera crew filming from behind what appeared to be a clear, plexiglass shield. There was a hole for the camera lens but the shield appeared to be 6-7 feet in height and 3-4 feet in width for those camera operators that were walking along filming the action and smaller shields for the camera crew that were stationary.

Maybe it was just plexiglass, maybe it was a form of Lexan, no way of really knowing. I mention this because there was a literal metric ton of weapons firing done in that film and the behind the scenes showed the all camera crews operating with those shields when there was a gun fight scene. The crews also had eye and ear pro on.

Even in the film Gamer, those same shields are seen in the behind the scenes special features.

Blank-firing prop guns are just that, props that fire blanks, allegedly, nothing is supposed to exit the barrel but a muzzle flash. Sure, accidents happen, people screw up, it happens. But, if it could have been prevented by the use of these shields, why are those protective items not a required item for all film productions?

What I'm getting at is, wouldn't it be common sense and safety, yeah, common sense, like that still exists, to use those shields when filming a scene where allegedly blank-firing prop weapons are being used? Seems like it would be or should be an industry standard and some kind of insurance issue, right along with not allowing anyone but the weapons prop people to hand the weapon off to the actor.

I agree, Baldwin will skate with maybe, maybe a fine and some quickly deleted bad press. This will all be swept under the rug as an unfortunate accident with no one to blame but some faulty, allegedly blank-firing prop gun that somehow 'misfired'.

Yeah, I'd buy that for a dollar.
 

et2

Has No Life - Lives on TB
If you and some friends were making a low budget film in your garage, and your friend points to a so called safe gun and says it’s cold. Without further inspection, you pull the trigger … bang … and kill Suzy next door. What to you think will happen. You’re probably going to do some time … and sued.
 

Kayak

Adrenaline Junkie
The question is, are you willing to break the Film Set Rules (of LONG standing) and demand he check the gun for loading accuracy? I'm not sure I would be willing to BREAK those rules and have this dufus DO that. Now Keanu Reeves, sure I'd break the rules with him because he has trained with Operators, and guys like Taran Butler (a verifiable LEGEND in his shooting sport) and knows how things can go wrong.
But again, that breaks the rules INSIDE THAT INDUSTRY. I don't care what the rules are here in the Real World, but in THAT world, the rules are actually different. In some jurisdictions, the weapons prop manager is the person who MUST be the last one to handle the weapon and the actor MUST NOT manipulate the weapon other than as required for the script.
Look for the rules for filming in NYC...

Several actors have spoken up to say that the person handing the weapon to the actor is responsible for showing the actor it's either a prop gun (so it can't fire anything), it's empty, or it has blanks. From what has been said, the person handing it to him told him it was a cold gun and he just accepted that, even though there had been two instances already in the previous days where a supposed cold gun was loaded. Actors talk about the armorer showing them the chamber or spinning the cylinder, dry firing it into the ground, letting them shake the supposed bullets (because a ball bearing is used where the powder should be, so it rattles). All kinds of ways an actor can be assured it's safe to point the weapon at someone and pull the trigger.

So yeah, I'm not going to require a gun-stupid actor check the gun himself, but I *am* going to require the actor have the knowledgable person show him that the gun is safe before said actor pulls the damned trigger.

Baldwin pulled the trigger. He has the ultimate responsibility for the bullet. Period.
 
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energy_wave

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Imo, someone took the gun off set so they could maybe pinch off a few shots with an antique pistol to see what it was like. Someone left a bullet in the chamber by mistake before it was returned to the storage locker.

It's beginning to look like someone took the gun off the movie set and used it for target pratice, then returned it to props live.

New questions emerge in Alec Baldwin movie set shooting

Former ATF Deputy Assistant Director Scott Sweetow discusses the shooting that took place on the set of Alec Baldwin's movie.

RT 4:47

 

ShadowMan

Designated Grumpy Old Fart
DM reporting that according to set insiders, those guns were used for recreational shooting, and that live ammo was stored with dummy ammo.

Well why not.....THEY broke every rule in the book of firearm safety. What kind of GOAT ROPING outfit was running that abortion of a film set?!?!? :bhd: No wonder most of the camera crew walked off the set! That was an mega disaster just waiting to happen.....and it didn't take long - DID IT?!?

“Stupidity cannot be cured. Stupidity is the only universal capital crime; the sentence is death. There is no appeal, and execution is carried out automatically and without pity.”
― Robert Heinlein

Unfortunately the WRONG person died.
 

Doc

Senior Member
This may have already been asked, but why did he point the gun at her in the first place? Wasn’t she filming the movie? The gun didn’t go off by itself. He he to have pulled the trigger.
 

night driver

ESFP adrift in INTJ sea
This may have already been asked, but why did he point the gun at her in the first place? Wasn’t she filming the movie? The gun didn’t go off by itself. He he to have pulled the trigger.
Kinda depends on what the script called for him to do. Yes, they shoot at people all the time, both actors and crew, especially camera crew.
 

Red Baron

Paleo-Conservative
_______________
Fair Use Cited
---------------
Gun That Killed DP ...ALLEGEDLY USED FOR OFF-SET TARGET PRACTICE

10/23/2021 4:59 PM PT

The smoking gun that claimed the life of Halyna Hutchins might've been more than just an on-set prop -- it was also being fired recreationally, even when cameras weren't rolling.

Multiple sources directly connected to the 'Rust' production tell TMZ ... the same gun Alec Baldwin accidentally fired -- hitting the DP and director -- was being used by crews members off set as well, for what we're told amounted to target practice.

We're told this off-the-clock shooting -- which was allegedly happening away from the movie lot -- was being done with real bullets ... which is how some who worked on the film believe a live round found its way in one of the chambers that day.

Obviously, authorities would want to speak to anyone who had been using the weapon for target practice, and -- more importantly -- to whoever was putting the gun back among others used for filming.

We've reached out to law enforcement to see if that's happened yet.

There's also this ... one source who was on set and familiar with the goings-on of the crew tells us that when cops showed up, they found live ammo and blanks were being stored in the same area -- another possible explanation for how an actual bullet slipped got in the gun.

Gun in Alec Baldwin Accident Was Also Used Off-Set, Recreationally (tmz.com)
 

Doc1

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Remember that most "blanks' produce at LEAST a wax wad out the barrel, which is what killed Exum.
The wad.

Not true, brother...at least no time recently. Virtually all factory blanks produced in recent years have either a star crimp or a thin paper cap to create a small amount of pressure.

As an aside, some back pressure needs to be generated to make the "bang" in a blank. Because of this, blanks almost always use special, extremely fast powder which is not suitable for use in loaded ammunition. More than a few idiots have harmed themselves or their guns (or both) by reloading with powder they salvaged from blank cartridges.

Best
Doc
 

Dozdoats

On TB every waking moment
No matter if the revolver involved was the Dragoon (black powder) or the Peacemaker (Cartridge), BOTH are single actions. The hammer has to be cocked and the trigger pulled to fire it, and apparently it was aimed/pointed at the victims when that happened.

Requires a certain amount of deliberation .....
 

Repairman-Jack

Veteran Member
I imagine the 24 year old nitwit "armorer" is indeed Thell's offspring, that is how you get a Hollywood job.
It is all dynastic, no matter where you are in the hierarchy.
Yeah she looks like a woke jackass.

Watched a youtube video earlier today, host was playing parts of interviews with her, very arrogant for what appears to be a skillset that doesn't match, there were also complaints about weapon handling on the Nicolas Cage movie.

While I can't stand Baldwin, I don't think this will fall on him, with the caveat of what was going on when the shooting occurred. Was it art of the script and they were doing a POV shot or was he screwing around or going off on one of his infamous rants

I don't know set "rules" but weapons are pointed at actors all the time and expecting braindead hollyweird idiots to know if ammunition is live/fake/blank is asking a lot.
 

jward

passin' thru
If we can't build a case o' WOO around the poor lady being Ukrainian/growing up on Russian military base, then I will have to lean towards' energy wave's theory as well

Not sure what all the confusion is about; the standard practices, and protocols should rise to the level of law, and, I thought, were designed to prevent just these kinds of sad events. One weopons/armourer/whatever the title is suggested their function extended beyond just ensuring the weapon was safe and it's chain of possession, to include even being responsible for maintaining visual assurance that the position of the actor was according to script, that the direction the item was discharged was a safe one, etc. . .

It's beginning to look like someone took the gun off the movie set and used it for target pratice, then returned it to props live.

New questions emerge in Alec Baldwin movie set shooting



RT 4:47

 

LibertyMom

Senior Member
This may have already been asked, but why did he point the gun at her in the first place? Wasn’t she filming the movie? The gun didn’t go off by itself. He he to have pulled the trigger.

My understanding from previous articles is the cinamatographer, camera man and director were huddled around each other lining up a shot and Alec was practicing his draw while waiting for filming on that scene to begin. He drew from the holster once with no incident, then the second time it fired. Not sure where fingers were precisely in relation to trigger, hammer, etc. And I don’t know whether the scene called for him to fire or just draw. Once filming began, the crew would have withdrawn to a different area.
 

The Snack Artist

Membership Revoked
From reading through these pages I get the feeling all of us here know there are at least two sets of rules and justice.

We know what happened sort of. We know baldwin is responsible. We think he'll walk on it. We all feel the investigation will be corrupt.

That's how you lose a country. This two tiered justice system is killing it. Nobody has faith things will be done fairly. We just know that whoever is connected best will win.

We're done.
 

medic38572

TB Fanatic
Media Black out?

Alec Baldwin arrested for first-degree murder and possession of child pornography – media blackout


Beaver Exclusive

The Santa Fe County Sheriff’s Office has arrested Alec Baldwin and charged him with first-degree murder as well as possession of child pornography, and ordered a media blackout that has been approved by a judge. Outlets in the United States are temporarily banned from reporting on Baldwin’s arrest.

Baldwin is said to have killed the cinematographer and attempted to kill the director, Joel Souza in a dispute over payment. Baldwin tried to make it appear like it was an accident, but further investigation revealed it was anything but. According to the Los Angeles Times:

Hours before actor Alec Baldwin fatally shot a cinematographer on the New Mexico set of “Rust” with a prop gun, a half-dozen camera crew workers walked off the set to protest working conditions.

The camera operators and their assistants were frustrated by the conditions surrounding the low-budget film, including complaints about long hours, long commutes and collecting their paychecks, according to three people familiar with the matter who were not authorized to comment.

Safety protocols standard in the industry, including gun inspections, were not strictly followed on the “Rust” set near Santa Fe, the sources said. They said at least one of the camera operators complained last weekend to a production manager about gun safety on the set.

When Baldwin was arrested at his hotel, he was founded with over 1,000 images of child pornography on his phone and laptop. He faces multiple felony charges. Baldwin’s lawyer did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

Denish.JPG

From Canadian online report... Alec Baldwin arrested for first-degree murder and possession of child pornography – media blackout – Conservative Beaver
 

Red Baron

Paleo-Conservative
_______________
Details about earlier "discharges" on the set.

Fair Use Cited
----------------
‘Rust’ crew describes on-set gun safety issues and misfires days before fatal shooting

BY MEG JAMES,
AMY KAUFMAN
OCT. 22, 2021 UPDATED 4:38 PM PT

Hours before actor Alec Baldwin fatally shot a cinematographer on the New Mexico set of “Rust” with a prop gun, a half-dozen camera crew workers walked off the set to protest working conditions.

The camera operators and their assistants were frustrated by the conditions surrounding the low-budget film, including complaints about long hours, long commutes and waiting for their paychecks, according to three people familiar with the matter who were not authorized to comment.

Safety protocols standard in the industry, including gun inspections, were not strictly followed on the “Rust” set near Santa Fe, the sources said. They said at least one of the camera operators complained last weekend to a production manager about gun safety on the set.

The Bonanza Creek Ranch one day after an incident left one crew member dead and another injured


Three crew members who were present at the Bonanza Creek Ranch set on Saturday said they were particularly concerned about two accidental prop gun discharges.

Baldwin’s stunt double accidentally fired two rounds Saturday after being told that the gun was “cold”
— lingo for a weapon that doesn’t have any ammunition, including blanks — two crew members who witnessed the episode told the Los Angeles Times.

“There should have been an investigation into what happened,” a crew member said. “There were no safety meetings. There was no assurance that it wouldn’t happen again. All they wanted to do was rush, rush, rush.”

The set of Rust at Bonanza Creek Ranch near Santa Fe, N.M.

A colleague was so alarmed by the prop gun misfires that he sent a text message to the unit production manager. “We’ve now had 3 accidental discharges. This is super unsafe,” according to a copy of the message reviewed by The Times.

“The safety of our cast and crew is the top priority of Rust Productions and everyone associated with the company, " Rust Movie Productions said in a statement. “Though we were not made aware of any official complaints concerning weapon or prop safety on set, we will be conducting an internal review of our procedures while production is shut down. We will continue to cooperate with the Santa Fe authorities in their investigation and offer mental health services to the cast and crew during this tragic time.”

The tragedy occurred Thursday afternoon during filming of a gunfight that began in a church that is part of the old Western town at the ranch. Baldwin’s character was supposed to back out of the church, according to production notes obtained by The Times. It was the 12th day of a 21-day shoot.

Cinematographer Halyna Hutchins on the set of Archenemy in January 2020 in Los Angeles.


Cinematographer Halyna Hutchins was huddled around a monitor lining up her next camera shot when she was accidentally killed by the prop gun fired by Baldwin.

The actor was preparing to film a scene in which he pulls a gun out of a holster, according to a source close to the production. Crew members had already shouted “cold gun” on the set. The filmmaking team was lining up its camera angles and had yet to retreat to the video village, an on-set area where the crew gathers to watch filming from a distance via a monitor.

Instead, the B-camera operator was on a dolly with a monitor, checking out the potential shots. Hutchins was also looking at the monitor from over the operator’s shoulder, as was the movie’s director, Joel Souza, who was crouching just behind her.

Baldwin removed the gun from its holster once without incident, but the second time he did so, ammunition flew toward the trio around the monitor. The projectile whizzed by the camera operator but penetrated Hutchins near her shoulder, then continued through to Souza. Hutchins immediately fell to the ground as crew members applied pressure to her wound in an attempt to stop the bleeding.


BOSTON - JULY 20: Gun props for the production of Coriolanus lie on a table backstage during rehearsal for the Commonwealth Shakespeare production of the play on Boston Common. Coriolanus, Shakespeare's most political play, echoes current events in the United States and abroad. (Photo by Tamir Kalifa for The Boston Globe via Getty Images)

Late Friday, the Associated Press reported that Baldwin was handed a loaded weapon by an assistant director who indicated it was safe to use in the moments before the actor fired it, according to court records. The assistant director did not know the prop gun was loaded with live rounds, according to a search warrant filed in a Santa Fe County court.

The person in charge of overseeing the gun props, known as the armorer, Hannah Gutierrez Reed, could not be reached for comment. The 24-year-old is the daughter of veteran armorer Thell Reed and had recently completed her first film as the head armorer for the movie “The Old Way,” with Clint Howard and Nicolas Cage.

Director Joel Souza in 2019 in New York City.


Earlier in the day, the camera crew arrived as expected at 6:30 a.m. and began gathering their gear and personal belongings to leave, one knowledgeable crew member told The Times.

Labor trouble had been brewing for days on the dusty set at the Bonanza Creek Ranch near Santa Fe.
Shooting began on Oct. 6 and members of the low-budget film said they had been promised the production would pay for their hotel rooms in Santa Fe.

Halyna Hutchins working on the set of the 2020 film “Archenemy”

But after filming began, the crews were told they instead would be required to make the 50-mile drive from Albuquerque each day, rather than stay overnight in nearby Santa Fe. That rankled crew members who worried that they might have an accident after spending 12 to 13 hours on the set.

Hutchins had been advocating for safer conditions for her team and was tearful when the camera crew left, said one crew member who was on the set.

“She said, ‘I feel like I’m losing my best friends,’” recalled one of the workers.

As the camera crew — members of the International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees — spent about an hour assembling their gear at the Bonanza Creek Ranch, several nonunion crew members showed up to replace them, two of the knowledgeable people said.

One of the producers ordered the union members to leave the set and threatened to call security to remove them if they didn’t leave voluntarily.

“Corners were being cut — and they brought in nonunion people so they could continue shooting,” the knowledgeable person said.

The shooting occurred about six hours after the union camera crew left.

Cinematographer Halyna Hutchins was on the cusp of reaching a new level of recognition in a male-dominated field.


The Santa Fe County Sheriff’s Office said deputies were dispatched to the Bonanza Creek Ranch movie set after calls to 911 at 1:50 p.m. Thursday. Baldwin was starring in the movie and was serving as one of the producers.

No charges have been filed, but the Sheriff’s Office said that “witnesses continue to be interviewed by detectives.”
Baldwin said Friday that he was “fully cooperating with the police investigation” into the incident.

“There are no words to convey my shock and sadness regarding the tragic accident that took the life of Halyna Hutchins, a wife, mother and deeply admired colleague of ours,” Baldwin wrote Friday in a series of tweets.
Production has been halted on the movie.

In an email to its members, Local 44 of the International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees, a union that represents prop masters, said the shot that killed Hutchins and injured Souza on Thursday was “a live single round.”

FILE - In this Sept. 21, 2015 file photo, actor Alec Baldwin attends a news conference at United Nations headquarters. A prop firearm discharged by veteran actor Alec Baldwin, who is starring and producing a Western movie, killed his director of photography and injured the director Thursday, Oct. 21, 2021 at the movie set outside Santa Fe, N.M., the Santa Fe County Sheriff's Office said. (AP Photo/Seth Wenig, File)

“As many of us have already heard, there was an accidental weapons discharge on a production titled Rust being filmed in New Mexico,” said the North Hollywood-based local. “A live single round was accidentally fired on set by the principal actor, hitting both the Director of Photography, Local 600 member Halyna Hutchins, and Director Joel Souza. Both were rushed to the hospital,” the email said. The New Mexico-based crew was represented by a different local.

A source close to the union said Local 44 does not know what projectile was in the gun and clarified that “live” is an industry term that refers to a gun loaded with some material such as a blank ready for filming.

Bonanza Creek Ranch has been a popular filming location for more than 60 years. The first movie to film there was “The Man From Laramie,” starring Jimmy Stewart. It also was the set for “The Ballad of Buster Scruggs” and the popular TV show “Longmire.”

One of the financiers for “Rust” is Santa Monica-based lender BondIt Media Capital, founded in 2013 by Matthew Helderman and Luke Taylor. According to its website, BondIt finances movies through instruments including gap loans, bridge loans and tax credit financing.

The company has primarily financed low-budget movies including the Bruce Willis action flick “Hard Kill,” the Charlotte Kirk horror flick “The Reckoning” and the upcoming Robert De Niro film “Wash Me in the River,” directed by Randall Emmett.
BondIt was particularly active during the COVID-19 pandemic, stepping in to fill financing gaps as independent producers struggled to find backing for films during the public health crisis.

Times staff writers Wendy Lee, Anousha Sakoui, Ryan Faughnder, Richard Winton, Josh Rottenberg and Scott Wilson contributed to this report.

Alec Baldwin 'Rust' camera crew walked off before shooting - Los Angeles Times (latimes.com)
 
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night driver

ESFP adrift in INTJ sea
Yes, there ARE two (or more) sets of rules, The ones that Jeff Cooper espoused for the outside world and the set of rules set forth in the safety Bulletins for Motion Pictures. The PRIMARY reason for this is that Rule 2 (or 3) "NEVER point a gun at something you do not wish to destroy" can simply NOT WORK in a Filming Environment.
You as an actor will R#EGULARLY (Many times a filming day) point and discharge a weapon at someone you do NOT wish to kill. Like some other actor, or a cameraman or a Cinematographer who is crouching behind the cameraman watching the screen for the scene shot. AIN'T his fault, boys n girls,
 

jward

passin' thru
I disagree some snack. I think we're pulling definitions out of our neither regions and BSing the incident without knowing the applicable laws, or what actually occurred. There may come to pass reason to believe such a two tiered justice system was brought into play, but those facts do not yet exist.

It doesn't feel that dissimilar to me to those incidents where a black guy is acting stoopid and breaking the actual law of engagement, and all the doo gooders are running around screaming why did they shoot poor johnnie he was going to be a college graduate and he didn't even have a weapon on him, and all sorts of other things that have zero to do with the laws governing the matter.

Doesn't matter that Baldwin is a classless SOB, he is guilty or innocent in the court systems according to the laws. Any speculation that the law won't be applied in his case should start with an actual understanding of the actual laws in question, IMHO. :: shrug :: I rather had the impression, in fact, that the governing practices of on set weopons' usage was designed with the premise that 'the actor is a useful idiot' and we make the system idiot proof, and in the process the subsequent codes would protect him and any other idiot..err..I mean actor, legally.
 

TidesofTruth

Veteran Member
I disagree some snack. I think we're pulling definitions out of our neither regions and BSing the incident without knowing the applicable laws, or what actually occurred. There may come to pass reason to believe such a two tiered justice system was brought into play, but those facts do not yet exist.

It doesn't feel that dissimilar to me to those incidents where a black guy is acting stoopid and breaking the actual law of engagement, and all the doo gooders are running around screaming why did they shoot poor johnnie he was going to be a college graduate and he didn't even have a weapon on him, and all sorts of other things that have zero to do with the laws governing the matter.

Doesn't matter that Baldwin is a classless SOB, he is guilty or innocent in the court systems according to the laws. Any speculation that the law won't be applied in his case should start with an actual understanding of the actual laws in question, IMHO. :: shrug :: I rather had the impression, in fact, that the governing practices of on set weopons' usage was designed with the premise that 'the actor is a useful idiot' and we make the system idiot proof, and in the process the subsequent codes would protect him and any other idiot..err..I mean actor, legally.
Not just an actor. He was the producer. He had a responsibility to keep that set safe regardless of being in the role of an actor at the time. At minimum it is negligent homicide as producer even if you want to give him an out as an actor which I DON'T. 50 years of handling weapons and I have never had an "accidental discharge" even as a child. Absolute ridiculous. The law must be equitable.
 
It is when anyone handles a weapon MUST clear the weapon regardless of who handed him the pistol. It doesn’t matter, he pulled the trigger. Whether screwing around or going off in a hate trump tirade he, Alex MF Baldwin pulled the trigger. No one else is responsible for his styoopid actions which led to the death of one individual and the wounding of another.
When I was teaching my fiancé about guns, she thought I should trust her if she said the gun was empty. I corrected that thought. If she is watching traffic and says it’s clear, I look anyway before I pull out. Forty years by myself, I trust no others.
 
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