EBOLA aesop on home care for an Ebola victim. Sobering reading.

night driver

ESFP adrift in INTJ sea
http://raconteurreport.blogspot.com/2014/10/surfing-usa.html


Yes we WILL say all of this again:

SATURDAY, OCTOBER 11, 2014

Surfing USA


One fine sunny morning in California, the San Andres Fault finally rips loose, there's an 8.5 earthquake, followed by a couple of 6.4 aftershocks just a few miles off the coast. Within minutes, the Santa Monica Pier is sitting 40 feet above the waterline, with a few fish flopping around on the glistening sand and kelp puddles that were in twenty to thirty feet of water just a few minutes earlier. Standing on the beach, you look offshore, and see a slight bulge in the waterline, not very high, but it seems to be moving fast inbound. It's 200 yards to the parking lot, and there's a downed streetlight sitting across the hood of your car anyways.
So how do catch the incoming tsunami and ride it safely home?

You and the family are enjoying a nice vacation to Hawaii at Volcano National Park. Your only son, ignoring repeated stern warnings, climbs up on top of the boundary fence near an open crater, and before your horror-stricken eyes, slips and tumbles into a pool of glowing red lava. How do you dive in and save him?

You're an hour out of Miami headed for London, the plane is humming along, the co-pilot's doing everything like a pro, you're at 35,000' in clear skies, when suddenly there's a loud thump, all the alarms and lights in the cockpit go off at once, and as you're struggling to assess your problems and options, you can hear the fight attendant screaming through the cockpit door that apparently the tail and both wings, including all your engines, just fell off. How do you glide in for a landing?

The answer to all three questions is the exact same:
Don't be there. Be someplace else, far, far away. Period.

In comments to recent posts, several times, I've been asked to please tell folks what medical supplies to stock to care for family members if they become infected with Ebola. It's a serious subject, a serious question, and to all appearances, asked by serious people. So let me give you a serious answer to "How do I care for family/friends with Ebola?"

DON'T.

"But Aesop, you don't understand, I love my wife/husband/son/daughter/brother/sister/aunt/cousin/grandpa/parents/pet giraffe, and I HAVE to help them!"

No problem.
1) Make out your will.
2) Do whatever you like. Don't bother with PPE. Treat their symptoms.
Result: They're (90% odds) going to die, you'll get infected, and then (90%) you're going to die too. Scatter any others under the same roof in there randomly as individually appropriate.

And there's absolutely nothing you're going to "stock up" on that will help, or change that reality.

Let me break it down, so that it's obvious I'm not just being a fatalistic dick about this.
Working in an Ebola Treatment center requires meticulously donning an impervious coverall, gloves, booties, hood, high-efficiency bio-hazard mask or powered respirator, goggles, apron, and more gloves. It typically takes two attendants to dress one person, to make sure everything's on right, tied closed, zipped up, and all the pieces in place, including places you can't see, like in front of your face and behind your back.

This all requires a clean, infection-free dressing area. Then they enter the patient treatment area through a door or doors that keep the infection locked in. The patient area needs to have everything the patient or caregiver needs stored within, because once you go in, you can't come out until you're decon'ed and all contaminated garments are removed.
So you have to have all medical supplies there, plus a bathroom area for the patient(s), and all sealed off from any outside contact.

Then you need another area to be decon'ed, and strip off the PPE, layer by layer, slowly and flawlessly, without contaminating yourself in the process, which requires more attendants to spray you with bleach solution, plus drains, disposal bins, showers, sinks, incinerators, etc.

Then you need a means to incinerate the waste, and a handy supply of ever-fresh new disposable supplies, for every time you suit up, and a crew to decon the re-usable stuff, with flawless precision each and every time.

And if you screw it up, you go into quarantine for 21 days. If you really screw it up, you move to the patient ward yourself, because you are one. To date nearly 400 healthcare workers in Africa have made that last transition, and most of them are dead now.

The easiest thing to do in this outbreak is get Ebola and die, as over 4000 people could tell you now themselves, if we'd only reconstitute their charcoal incinerated atoms and resurrect them to chat with us.

Setting up such a facility is such a royal PITA, most major hospitals don't even attempt it for training without weeks of meetings and prep, and they usually screw it up royally even then, despite hordes of trained professionals, thoughtful planning, and budgets any of us would envy.

So, what part of that could you reproduce, when failure = slow lingering death by liquification of your internal organs (while you're still using them)?

"But...but...IT"S MY WIFE!SON!BABY!MOTHER! I LOVE them!"

Noted. Of course you do. So be a hero, dive into the lava pool, and see how far you get.
After all, I could be wrong.

But on the theory I'm not, realize this:
Healthcare authorities yesterday threw in the towel with respect to Sierra Leone.
All of Sierra Leone.
They're going to start distributing home healthcare supplies there.
That stuff is going to enable family members to care for each other. And as a result, one infected family member will kill their fellow family members, with a 70-90% efficiency.
The charities involved have come to the conclusion that Sierra Leone's 5.7M people need to be cut loose, and they'll give them what they need to do minimal comfort care for family members, for whom there are simply no beds, and the disease will run rampant until it runs out of people to kill there. Probably nearly all of them, unless someone has the means and supplies to stay inside unexposed until 5.2M of their friends and neighbors have died, and the virus runs out of hosts or growth media, like decaying corpses. To the tune, potentially, of about half the entire Nazi holocaust, in total size.

The entire country has just been put on hospice, because we simply can't catch this virus.
It'll take weeks to burn out, thousands, perhaps millions more will die, and the people running the medical relief groups know all this right now.

What you can do:

You aren't going to be going out with a mask and such here if Ebola becomes more "than that one guy in Dallas". If you're riding on planes and busses with a mask on, you're an idiot. In short order, you'll be an infected idiot. And shortly after that, an ex-idiot. Don't be that guy.

You don't need masks, gowns, gloves, etc.

You need WATER. A source, not just a faucet. Barrels, bathtub, well, rain collection. Hell, pull your cars out of the garage, and put an above-ground pool up, and fill it with water.
Get a water purification filter, unscented bleach, etc., to keep drinking water clean.

You'll need FOOD. Not 3 days, but more like 3 WEEKS, and more likely 3 MONTHS worth. Ebola started in March in Africa. By next May, as things look now and with no change, it will be well on the way to wiping those nations off the planet, with 70-90% efficiency. So, have you got a year's food? Canned goods keep from 2-5 years. Dried/dehydrated for longer, but it's a lot pricier.

You're going to need a way to cook food, stay warm in the winter, etc. So power/electricity/fire. More ways is better.

If you have stored water, food, and means to purify/prepare both, you don't need to go out into the contagion.
You're going to need basic medical/first aid supplies, because going to the hospital during that time for a cut or broken bone isn't going to be an option.

You're going to need a way to be your own 911 - medical, fire, and police, because those folks may not be there to pick up when you call. Assuming calling is even an option at that point. Can you fix your own boo-boos? Put out a fire? Be your own cop? Get cracking.

The likeliest decontamination supplies will rarely be bleach (mixed in water), and more often than not a gallon of unleaded and a road flare, for the bodies that drop too near, or don't get picked up right away. If you think you want to gown up and play with them, drag them around, and/or give them a Christian burial, best wishes. We'll all split your gear after you're gone.
If I have to deal with any bodies, they're getting a Viking funeral, and an "Amen" by way of services.
If they aren't within throwing distance of a road flare from the property line, they're not my problem, nor within my jurisdiction.

If this outbreak gets contained where it is, great. Hallelujah.

If it doesn't, it isn't something you're going to get through.
It's going to change life as we know it, for years.
You're either going to totally avoid it, or it's going to weed you and your family out of the gene pool permanently and painfully.

And anybody who tells you anything different is either afraid to tell you the awful truth of that, woefully under-informed, or selling you a bill of goods. Or all of the above.

The only way to take care of family members with Ebola is not to have to.

The only possible exception is if you have a big enough tribe/family/group/whatever that you really do have a compound, buttloads of supplies, dedicated clinic space, and enough people to care for one or two persons who get infected (knowing that 50-90% of them will die anyway, and with the mental and physical preparation and means to deal with the disposal problem if that happens too). And if you're that well-prepared, you don't me to tell you how to handle things.

Personally, I'm betting outside of publicly funded entities, the number of groups to whom that would apply could be counted on your thumbs.

I hope anyone considering the future in the case that this becomes an epidemic here will recognize this as the definitive answer to this question, and not press for more. It simply doesn't exist.

I can't tell you anything more, because there's essentially no way to accomplish what some of you are thinking about, and it would be immoral and unethical for anyone to suggest otherwise. I certainly will not.

The best way to prepare for this getting worse is not by going to the drug store.
It's by going to the supermarket.

I understand what a rude shock that may be right now to a lot of folks.
Imagine what it's going to be like for people who don't get the lightbulb-over-the-head moment until after it's too late to get ready.

POSTED BY AESOP AT 2:00 PM
LABELS: EBOLA, PREPAREDNESS, SURVIVAL
 

Nean7

Contributing Member
Jeeeeeeez...I'm heading to my tincture supply...not for the anti viral part, but the alcohol numbing part.
 

Last Resort

Veteran Member
I've thought a lot about what I would do if I, my 10 year old son, or wife came down with Ebola and reached the same conclusion. We will all live or die together, quarantine will not work among us under one roof, and there will be no help when we need it if the infection reaches our suburb. That's why I have water, food, fuel and lots of garbage bags. If an outbreak gets so bad that it reaches us and eclipses the plague or Spanish flu, we will have to go it "alone." Aside from some painters' masks I have no PPE. If my family dies from this and I don't I will eat a bullet, so we will all survive or perish together and do our very best to survive. Water, water, water. Some food. Hygiene. More water, water, water. Salts and sugars. That's really all I think we'll be able to do if it spreads.
 

prepgirl44

Veteran Member
Spot on! I've been saying exactly this from the git-go.

No one is going to be able to take care of ebola stricken family members and survive. Period.

It is what it is. Don't even put family in a position to have to even consider going there. Prepare to self isolate for a very long time and thus prevent infection in the first place. That's the only hope anyone has.

It's not rocket science.
 

Housecarl

On TB every waking moment
Aesop is telling the unvarnished raw truth.

A cholera outbreak is "easier" to deal with than ebola/marburg.
 

ainitfunny

Saved, to glorify God.
The REASON Ebola causes the body and organs to "melt" and bleed out is EBOLA DESTROYS THE ENTIRE BODY VITAMIN C LEVEL (to ZERO) and the collagen the " glue" that holds the organs and tissues together and also C maintains blood vessel integrity is ABSOLUTELY DEPENDENT ON Vitamin C! Without it you get, bleed out, linings of tongue, throat, gut, etc to "come off" and "INSTANT end stage SCURVY which looks a lot like Ebola!

I believe that if an Ebola Victim is treated with ORAL"rehydration salts solution, HIGH vitamin C administered several times daily, high PPM Colloidal silver several times daily, (which kills the Ebola virus itself) and TURMERIC standardized to 95% Curcumin 400mg two to four times a day to PREVENT OR STOP A CYTOKINE STORM or "cascade" ( which is an auto-immune attack that Ebola triggers) and which, by itself can kill, if unchecked! . This TREATMENT SHOULD SAVE MANY MORE PEOPLE.
 

undead

Veteran Member
I've thought a lot about what I would do if I, my 10 year old son, or wife came down with Ebola and reached the same conclusion. We will all live or die together, quarantine will not work among us under one roof, and there will be no help when we need it if the infection reaches our suburb. That's why I have water, food, fuel and lots of garbage bags. If an outbreak gets so bad that it reaches us and eclipses the plague or Spanish flu, we will have to go it "alone." Aside from some painters' masks I have no PPE. If my family dies from this and I don't I will eat a bullet, so we will all survive or perish together and do our very best to survive. Water, water, water. Some food. Hygiene. More water, water, water. Salts and sugars. That's really all I think we'll be able to do if it spreads.

spot on
 

heelgeneral

Senior Member
The REASON Ebola causes the body and organs to "melt" and bleed out is EBOLA DESTROYS THE ENTIRE BODY VITAMIN C LEVEL (to ZERO) and the collagen the " glue" that holds the organs and tissues together and also C maintains blood vessel integrity is ABSOLUTELY DEPENDENT ON Vitamin C! Without it you get, bleed out, linings of tongue, throat, gut, etc to "come off" and "INSTANT end stage SCURVY which looks a lot like Ebola!

I believe that if an Ebola Victim is treated with ORAL"rehydration salts solution, HIGH vitamin C administered several times daily, high PPM Colloidal silver several times daily, (which kills the Ebola virus itself) and TURMERIC standardized to 95% Curcumin 400mg two to four times a day to PREVENT OR STOP A CYTOKINE STORM or "cascade" ( which is an auto-immune attack that Ebola triggers) and which, by itself can kill, if unchecked! . This TREATMENT SHOULD SAVE MANY MORE PEOPLE.

Isn't salt with colloidal silver a bad thing? I thought I read somewhere that it causes some sort of reaction. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. I'm still learning here.
 

naturallysweet

Has No Life - Lives on TB
The person who wrote the article obviously doesn't have anyone that he loves. I'd hate to be his family member. Because when things get really hard, he gives up to save his own life while his children are dying.

The death rate with palliative care is 70%. I'm willing to risk my life to save the young children in my family for that 30%. I couldn't live with myself if I left them to die alone, especially not when I could save them.

Who wants to live, if you can't live with yourself when it's over?
 

Foothiller

Veteran Member
I've thought a lot about what I would do if I, my 10 year old son, or wife came down with Ebola and reached the same conclusion. We will all live or die together, quarantine will not work among us under one roof, and there will be no help when we need it if the infection reaches our suburb. That's why I have water, food, fuel and lots of garbage bags. If an outbreak gets so bad that it reaches us and eclipses the plague or Spanish flu, we will have to go it "alone." Aside from some painters' masks I have no PPE. If my family dies from this and I don't I will eat a bullet, so we will all survive or perish together and do our very best to survive. Water, water, water. Some food. Hygiene. More water, water, water. Salts and sugars. That's really all I think we'll be able to do if it spreads.

I get what you're saying and I agree. Except I do not believe I'll throw my life away if I get to that point... not without trying to right some wrongs before I cross the rainbow bridge.

We all know who is responsible for Ebola coming here.

Establishing some real accountability would likely do wonders for the way our government works, as currently there is absolutely no accountability at any level of government.
 

xtreme_right

Veteran Member
The person who wrote the article obviously doesn't have anyone that he loves. I'd hate to be his family member. Because when things get really hard, he gives up to save his own life while his children are dying.

The death rate with palliative care is 70%. I'm willing to risk my life to save the young children in my family for that 30%. I couldn't live with myself if I left them to die alone, especially not when I could save them.

Who wants to live, if you can't live with yourself when it's over?

I agree. If it gets that bad here, hospitals won't be able to take care of them. It will be palliative care at home. I found hope in the story if the woman in Africa that was put in quarantine and given bottles or oral rehydration solution and food. She was told it was up to her to drink enough ORS to get through it. Yes, it was probably pure hell but she did it.

My plan is to get our immune built up now, have liposomal vitamin c, curcumin, CS, and a handful of other things including pre-made packets of ORS ready to go.

I won't throw my hands up and give up. I will do everything I'm my power to save my family even with just a 10% chance of survival. What's the alternative? Are you guys really going to walk away from your loved ones?
 

ainitfunny

Saved, to glorify God.
Isn't salt with colloidal silver a bad thing? I thought I read somewhere that it causes some sort of reaction. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. I'm still learning here.
Good grief.
You do not ADD SALT to the distilled water when you are ELECTRICALLY MAKING Colloidal Silver! THAT is where and when salt is "a bad thing "!
You need to GO BACK and REREAD the things upon which you have informed yourself, upon which you rely for making decisions, IF YOU ARE NOT RETAINING ENOUGH OF WHAT YOU READ TO AVOID BEING CONFUSED!
 

ainitfunny

Saved, to glorify God.
I bet with the treatment I outlined above in post #9, WE COULD SAVE A much greater percentage of patients than even the treatment centers save, maybe 70-80% saved if treatment is started early enough!
AFTER EXPOSURE, colloidal silver must be started immediately, BEFORE EBOLA SYMPTOMS ARRIVE, IN ORDER TO LOWER VIRAL LOAD!! And Vitamin C started BEFORE the body is stripped of it by Ebola!
 

Faroe

Un-spun
The person who wrote the article obviously doesn't have anyone that he loves. I'd hate to be his family member. Because when things get really hard, he gives up to save his own life while his children are dying.

The death rate with palliative care is 70%. I'm willing to risk my life to save the young children in my family for that 30%. I couldn't live with myself if I left them to die alone, especially not when I could save them.

Who wants to live, if you can't live with yourself when it's over?

I agree. Enough with the ultimatums, because the facts don't support it. Death rate is NOT 100%. and some people don't seem to catch it.

I find the article irresponsible. Everyone has to make a choice. Don't make it on exagerations and hyperbole.
 

Just Believin

Contributing Member
I agree. If it gets that bad here, hospitals won't be able to take care of them. It will be palliative care at home. I found hope in the story if the woman in Africa that was put in quarantine and given bottles or oral rehydration solution and food. She was told it was up to her to drink enough ORS to get through it. Yes, it was probably pure hell but she did it.

My plan is to get our immune built up now, have liposomal vitamin c, curcumin, CS, and a handful of other things including pre-made packets of ORS ready to go.

I won't throw my hands up and give up. I will do everything I'm my power to save my family even with just a 10% chance of survival. What's the alternative? Are you guys really going to walk away from your loved ones?

I won't!! I can't even think about walking away. That above article is so so sobering. Oh my goodness! But I am thankful for it. It has served to put the fear in its place. And set the resolve to do the best that I can for the survival of my family. No more floundering. Thanks night driver for posting that!!
 

Witness

Deceased
Matthew 22:36-40King James Version (KJV)

36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


Matthew 7:12

King James Bible
Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you,
do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.


Philippians 4:13New King James Version (NKJV)

13 I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.
 

Betty_Rose

Veteran Member
I've thought a lot about what I would do if I, my 10 year old son, or wife came down with Ebola and reached the same conclusion. We will all live or die together, quarantine will not work among us under one roof, and there will be no help when we need it if the infection reaches our suburb.


There's no way that I would watch (and/or isolate) someone I love while they struggle (and perhaps die) of a dreadful disease. I would hold them, and pray for them, and feed them, and clean them. And I would pray some more. And read the Bible to them, and sing hymns, and wipe their brow. And pray some more.

And if I die in the process, so be it. I'm 55 years old. I'd rather die doing the right thing than live an extra 20 years and hate myself every hour of every day for NOT DOING ALL THAT I COULD.

There's more to life than this earthly existence.
 
Last edited:

night driver

ESFP adrift in INTJ sea
Where do you see hyperbole there?

Those are cold clean numbers from the current outbreak in Africa.

You have a source for different numbers that comes from the front lines, by all means share.
I'd LOVE to see better than 70-90% fatalities, supported by science from the current strain outbreak.

And I don't mean prospective, "If we did THIS, then..." sorts of things either. Demonstrated and proven with current strain.
 

Martinhouse

Deceased
The OP is good to read, good in that it makes one think.

I am starting to think I'm glad I live alone and not near many friends and family. Not so much because I will be spared making such a horrible decision about any of them, but because they will be spared making that decision about me.

Carol
 

ainitfunny

Saved, to glorify God.
Where do you see hyperbole there?

Those are cold clean numbers from the current outbreak in Africa.

You have a source for different numbers that comes from the front lines, by all means share.
I'd LOVE to see better than 70-90% fatalities, supported by science from the current strain outbreak.

And I don't mean prospective, "If we did THIS, then..." sorts of things either. Demonstrated and proven with current strain.
THEY HAVE NOT EVEN TRIED THINGS THEY KNOW COULD HELP!
The doctors WANTED TO TRY COLLOIDAL SILVER BUT WERE FORBIDDEN!
 

Hfcomms

EN66iq
The best defense against Ebola is not to get it in the first place. Obvious but profound. That means doing the thing that the OP suggested and being able to make the decision to shelter in place and keep everyone else out. It will probably be an uncomfortable decision because you'll have to make it before most other people do and before the infection is widespread. Obviously that will most likely cause family friction because your the only one doing it and everyone else will think your over reacting and of course it will probably cost you your job. At that point which is the lessor of the two evils. Your livlihood or the lives of you and your family. That will be an extremely hard decision for most people to make....and you have to make it early in the process before things are totally out of control.
 

night driver

ESFP adrift in INTJ sea
M ore from Aesop and Grouch:

http://raconteurreport.blogspot.com/2014/10/kids-dont-try-this-at-home.html


{h/t to Doc Grouch for the source material for this one.}

NEJM has just published a clinical case study of the course of treatment provided to a man sent to Germany with fulminant Ebola virus infection.

1) It's exhaustive, and fascinating.
2) If you're any medical clinician interested, or likely to see/treat Ebola in any context, go there now and read it.
3) If you're non-medical but a quick study, it's still worthwhile.
4) If you're not either, it will be worse than trying to follow Chinese opera.

I have gotten, and still see on the Internet (I see those links to my site, and I visit them from time to time, so I see you people out there!) folks who still cling to the doomed fantasy that they're going to stock up on supplies, and care for family/friends/fellow tribesmen, out of love, humanity, or simply pigheaded ignorance of the futility of the gesture. Allow me to lovingly smash that foolish dumbshittery to bitsy pieces with my 18# surgical steel sledgehammer of reality, just one more time. Remember, I yell because I care.

So with apologies to any clinicians who will quibble or object to the following summation, in hopes of making this clear to people, I present another foray into explaining in laymen's terms that even someone perplexed by the plotlines of Dumb And Dumber and Dude, Where's My Car? will be able to grasp. What follows is entirely my summary. If you want the actual case, RTWT from NEJM. (And thank them for posting it all where anyone can get it. This is what the Internet should be for, not just pR0n and kitten videos.)

The patient was a 36 y.o. male epidemiologist who became infected in Sierra Leone, probably by a colleague with whom he shared an office and bathroom. Said colleague contracted Ebola and died.
Patient was treated for malaria at first, by quickly became symptomatic of and tested positive for Ebola. On Day Ten after initial symptoms, he was transferred to Germany for intensive treatment.
Day 1: malaise, headache, bodyaches
Day 2: Fever of 101.2 F
Day 6: Positive Ebola blood test
Day 7: abdominal pain, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea
Day 8: Beginning of IV fluids and single-dose antibiotics
Day 10: Transfer to German hospital ICU isolation ward in Hamburg
Blood tests: suggestive of massive dehydration, lab values totally ****ed up (that's a clinical term)
Ultrasound of inferior vena cava (the route blood from the body takes to get back to the heart) showed that it was flat. In other words, circulation was upgefuchten (German clinical term).
Patient shitting out more than 2 gallons of diarrhea per day for 3 days straight, and digestive tract blocked. Given 10 liters of IV fluid/daily, plus potassium supplements
Ebola blood concentration begins to decrease
Day 11: feeding tube placed
Day 13: vomiting stopped; Fever and general secondary infection noted, more antibiotics started
Day 15: central venous line placed; diarrhea decreased to less than 1/2 gallon/day
Day 17: Ebola absent from blood concentration
Day 18: altered mental status and respiratory failure; placed on external ventilation
Day 20-25: hallucinations and delirium
Day 26: respiratory and mental recovery
Day 30: Ebola no longer detected in urine
Day 40: Ebola no longer detectable in sweat
Day 60: Patient discharged to return home to Senegal.

Truly, read the whole thing. This guy nearly died at least twice and perhaps three times; once when the Ebola nearly killed him, and again when the complications of Ebola caused bacteria from his digestive tract to leak out of it and into his body, causing a massive infection, and finally when the monstrous amount of fluid to stave off the Ebola, plus aspiration of blood caused lung and breathing problems, almost drowning him in his own fluids, and caused his brain to swell to the point of impinging on normal respiratory function.

By any standard, that medical team are rock stars.

WHY YOU AIN'T FIXING THAT AT HOME

1) The study was co-authored by 12 board-certified critical care specialist MDs, all of whom were directly involved in treating this one patient.
2) The patient was in the ICU, certainly what we call a 1:1, and probably more like a 4:1, i.e. at least one, and probably four nurses (two for care, and two to make sure the first two were sterile and safe) for his course of care, for at least 26-30 days of his care, if not the entire time.
3) 10 liters of saline/day times 10-18 days: $5/bag, 180 bags minimum=$900, and it's all Rx.
(BTW, there's been a national IV Saline shortage for months, to the point that hospitals are having trouble getting enough, just FYI)
4) New IV tubing every 3 days, probably two sets, $3@, figure another $100, all Rx.
5) The associated supplies to start the IV, another $300
6) rare and exotic antibiotics, including the big guns for the drug-resistant infection he developed from what leaked out of his guts and into his body because of the Ebola
Probably $5-10K worth, if you could get them
7) the full-body positive pressure hazmat suits and HEPA powered respirators that prevented one single reverse infection during the patient's treatment - $2K@
8) the x-ray, ultrasound, and CT scanners, roughly $1M worth, and all the techs to run them
9) the 24 hour lab, equipment, and specific tests to detect his various infections and run his blood tests
10) the sterile BL4 facility to house and care for the patient.

If you have a spare $10M to build that, and another $3+M/yr payroll to keep 15 doctors, including a pharmacist, radiologist, and pathologist, plus 24 ICU nurses to cover those shifts 24/7/365, and keep them all standing by for your family/friend/whatever, and all the ancillary staff as well, ROWYBS.

Of course, for a lot less, you could have bought and fully stocked one of those old missile silos or obsolete commo bunkers, and skipped the problem entirely, being instead watching your collection of every DVD movie known to man, playing ping pong, and eating steak and lobster off the BBQ 7 days a week for the next ten years, right now.

But if you have that kind of money, you could open a for-profit hospital now, and fund making movies, and be raking in money hand over fist 24/7/forever, in which case you're likely too busy to read this blog.

You're sure as hell not going to pull it off clipping coupons and holding down any middle class job (or twenty) anywhere in North America.

And as for "But I've GOT to try!" let me help you with that:
"But I've GOT to DIE!" There, fixed if for ya.
And you're going to not only get sick, but give it to your whole family and anyone else nearby. Do them and yourself a favor: kill yourself now, and save Ebola the trouble.
Or at least, stop thinking there's anything you can do that isn't going to be throwing gasoline on the fire.

There's one correct answer where Ebola and similar pathogens are concerned:
Don't Catch Them.
Don't Let Those You Care About Catch Them.
Period.


*(And nota bene that Our Victim in this was infected by a trained ace medical colleague, who worked - until he collapsed - while infected until a mere four days before he died of Ebola, certainly coming to work with a raging Ebola virus infection for days beforehand, and spreading it to this poor guy and an unknown number of other medical colleagues.
That is why smart medical people will GTFO when Case One comes to their hospital, in most cases, and nearly everywhere. This is not something anyone without massive clinical support and brilliant co-workers and supervisors should ever play with.
Do you work in health care? If so, how bright are your colleagues and management?)

POSTED BY AESOP AT 8:20 AM
LABELS: EBOLA
2 COMMENTS:

A Texan said...
In every field of endeavor, there's a Bell Curve. Some people are on the left side, most in the middle, some on the right. The assclown doc (now) in NYC and Nurse Crybaby are definitely on the left side, as was the doc who infected the patient who's course of treatment was dealt with here.

Stupidity kills, and all the more so when you have people in authority or responsibility that everyone looks to for the correct answer(s), and they give you answer(s) that are not merely wrong, but DEAD wrong.

All these government and media morons (left side of Bell Curve, for those not paying attention) who say that Ebola isn't a problem for the US, we have the "world's best medical system," there have only been 4 cases here, etc. - these are people not the least bit schooled in medicine OR mathematics, because simple common sense, history and a $5 calculator should inform ANYONE with a functioning brain that Ebola is potentially a BIG problem. How to avoid that big problem is mind-numbingly simple - keep new cases OUT of the US.

Again, stupidity kills (of which political correctness is merely a a subcategory). That and selfishness (of which political advantage is a subcategory). Between those 2, and our wonderfully modern transportation system, we're likely to have dozens of cases by the end of the year, or if not by that time, by no later than January 31. Again, reference common sense, history and your handy-dandy $5 calculator (if you're too ****ing stupid or lazy to understand what a geometric progression is, and how it works with a communicable disease).

And yet, despite Aesop's warnings, many who read him and thousands of others will attempt to treat loved ones with Ebola, and will catch it themselves. THIS is how you go from a controllable problem to a pandemic. Pray that our society and our civilization survive the next 2 years.

OCTOBER 28, 2014 AT 8:44 AM
Emily Disraeli said...
So I'm thinking everyone but Index "Duncan" did not or does not actually have Ebola. It's all just performance art, right?

OCTOBER 28, 2014 AT 8:49 AM
 

Grimace

Veteran Member
M ore from Aesop and Grouch:

http://raconteurreport.blogspot.com/2014/10/kids-dont-try-this-at-home.html

{h/t to Doc Grouch for the source material for this one.}

NEJM has just published a clinical case study of the course of treatment provided to a man sent to Germany with fulminant Ebola virus infection.

1) It's exhaustive, and fascinating.
2) If you're any medical clinician interested, or likely to see/treat Ebola in any context, go there now and read it.
3) If you're non-medical but a quick study, it's still worthwhile.
4) If you're not either, it will be worse than trying to follow Chinese opera.

I have gotten, and still see on the Internet (I see those links to my site, and I visit them from time to time, so I see you people out there!) folks who still cling to the doomed fantasy that they're going to stock up on supplies, and care for family/friends/fellow tribesmen, out of love, humanity, or simply pigheaded ignorance of the futility of the gesture. Allow me to lovingly smash that foolish dumbshittery to bitsy pieces with my 18# surgical steel sledgehammer of reality, just one more time. Remember, I yell because I care.

So with apologies to any clinicians who will quibble or object to the following summation, in hopes of making this clear to people, I present another foray into explaining in laymen's terms that even someone perplexed by the plotlines of Dumb And Dumber and Dude, Where's My Car? will be able to grasp. What follows is entirely my summary. If you want the actual case, RTWT from NEJM. (And thank them for posting it all where anyone can get it. This is what the Internet should be for, not just pR0n and kitten videos.)

The patient was a 36 y.o. male epidemiologist who became infected in Sierra Leone, probably by a colleague with whom he shared an office and bathroom. Said colleague contracted Ebola and died.
Patient was treated for malaria at first, by quickly became symptomatic of and tested positive for Ebola. On Day Ten after initial symptoms, he was transferred to Germany for intensive treatment.
Day 1: malaise, headache, bodyaches
Day 2: Fever of 101.2 F
Day 6: Positive Ebola blood test
Day 7: abdominal pain, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea
Day 8: Beginning of IV fluids and single-dose antibiotics
Day 10: Transfer to German hospital ICU isolation ward in Hamburg
Blood tests: suggestive of massive dehydration, lab values totally ****ed up (that's a clinical term)
Ultrasound of inferior vena cava (the route blood from the body takes to get back to the heart) showed that it was flat. In other words, circulation was upgefuchten (German clinical term).
Patient shitting out more than 2 gallons of diarrhea per day for 3 days straight, and digestive tract blocked. Given 10 liters of IV fluid/daily, plus potassium supplements
Ebola blood concentration begins to decrease
Day 11: feeding tube placed
Day 13: vomiting stopped; Fever and general secondary infection noted, more antibiotics started
Day 15: central venous line placed; diarrhea decreased to less than 1/2 gallon/day
Day 17: Ebola absent from blood concentration
Day 18: altered mental status and respiratory failure; placed on external ventilation
Day 20-25: hallucinations and delirium
Day 26: respiratory and mental recovery
Day 30: Ebola no longer detected in urine
Day 40: Ebola no longer detectable in sweat
Day 60: Patient discharged to return home to Senegal.

Truly, read the whole thing. This guy nearly died at least twice and perhaps three times; once when the Ebola nearly killed him, and again when the complications of Ebola caused bacteria from his digestive tract to leak out of it and into his body, causing a massive infection, and finally when the monstrous amount of fluid to stave off the Ebola, plus aspiration of blood caused lung and breathing problems, almost drowning him in his own fluids, and caused his brain to swell to the point of impinging on normal respiratory function.

By any standard, that medical team are rock stars.

WHY YOU AIN'T FIXING THAT AT HOME

1) The study was co-authored by 12 board-certified critical care specialist MDs, all of whom were directly involved in treating this one patient.
2) The patient was in the ICU, certainly what we call a 1:1, and probably more like a 4:1, i.e. at least one, and probably four nurses (two for care, and two to make sure the first two were sterile and safe) for his course of care, for at least 26-30 days of his care, if not the entire time.
3) 10 liters of saline/day times 10-18 days: $5/bag, 180 bags minimum=$900, and it's all Rx.
(BTW, there's been a national IV Saline shortage for months, to the point that hospitals are having trouble getting enough, just FYI)
4) New IV tubing every 3 days, probably two sets, $3@, figure another $100, all Rx.
5) The associated supplies to start the IV, another $300
6) rare and exotic antibiotics, including the big guns for the drug-resistant infection he developed from what leaked out of his guts and into his body because of the Ebola
Probably $5-10K worth, if you could get them
7) the full-body positive pressure hazmat suits and HEPA powered respirators that prevented one single reverse infection during the patient's treatment - $2K@
8) the x-ray, ultrasound, and CT scanners, roughly $1M worth, and all the techs to run them
9) the 24 hour lab, equipment, and specific tests to detect his various infections and run his blood tests
10) the sterile BL4 facility to house and care for the patient.

If you have a spare $10M to build that, and another $3+M/yr payroll to keep 15 doctors, including a pharmacist, radiologist, and pathologist, plus 24 ICU nurses to cover those shifts 24/7/365, and keep them all standing by for your family/friend/whatever, and all the ancillary staff as well, ROWYBS.

Of course, for a lot less, you could have bought and fully stocked one of those old missile silos or obsolete commo bunkers, and skipped the problem entirely, being instead watching your collection of every DVD movie known to man, playing ping pong, and eating steak and lobster off the BBQ 7 days a week for the next ten years, right now.

But if you have that kind of money, you could open a for-profit hospital now, and fund making movies, and be raking in money hand over fist 24/7/forever, in which case you're likely too busy to read this blog.

You're sure as hell not going to pull it off clipping coupons and holding down any middle class job (or twenty) anywhere in North America.

And as for "But I've GOT to try!" let me help you with that:
"But I've GOT to DIE!" There, fixed if for ya.
And you're going to not only get sick, but give it to your whole family and anyone else nearby. Do them and yourself a favor: kill yourself now, and save Ebola the trouble.
Or at least, stop thinking there's anything you can do that isn't going to be throwing gasoline on the fire.

There's one correct answer where Ebola and similar pathogens are concerned:
Don't Catch Them.
Don't Let Those You Care About Catch Them.
Period.


*(And nota bene that Our Victim in this was infected by a trained ace medical colleague, who worked - until he collapsed - while infected until a mere four days before he died of Ebola, certainly coming to work with a raging Ebola virus infection for days beforehand, and spreading it to this poor guy and an unknown number of other medical colleagues.
That is why smart medical people will GTFO when Case One comes to their hospital, in most cases, and nearly everywhere. This is not something anyone without massive clinical support and brilliant co-workers and supervisors should ever play with.
Do you work in health care? If so, how bright are your colleagues and management?)

POSTED BY AESOP AT 8:20 AM
LABELS: EBOLA
2 COMMENTS:

A Texan said...
In every field of endeavor, there's a Bell Curve. Some people are on the left side, most in the middle, some on the right. The assclown doc (now) in NYC and Nurse Crybaby are definitely on the left side, as was the doc who infected the patient who's course of treatment was dealt with here.

Stupidity kills, and all the more so when you have people in authority or responsibility that everyone looks to for the correct answer(s), and they give you answer(s) that are not merely wrong, but DEAD wrong.

All these government and media morons (left side of Bell Curve, for those not paying attention) who say that Ebola isn't a problem for the US, we have the "world's best medical system," there have only been 4 cases here, etc. - these are people not the least bit schooled in medicine OR mathematics, because simple common sense, history and a $5 calculator should inform ANYONE with a functioning brain that Ebola is potentially a BIG problem. How to avoid that big problem is mind-numbingly simple - keep new cases OUT of the US.

Again, stupidity kills (of which political correctness is merely a a subcategory). That and selfishness (of which political advantage is a subcategory). Between those 2, and our wonderfully modern transportation system, we're likely to have dozens of cases by the end of the year, or if not by that time, by no later than January 31. Again, reference common sense, history and your handy-dandy $5 calculator (if you're too ****ing stupid or lazy to understand what a geometric progression is, and how it works with a communicable disease).

And yet, despite Aesop's warnings, many who read him and thousands of others will attempt to treat loved ones with Ebola, and will catch it themselves. THIS is how you go from a controllable problem to a pandemic. Pray that our society and our civilization survive the next 2 years.

OCTOBER 28, 2014 AT 8:44 AM
Emily Disraeli said...
So I'm thinking everyone but Index "Duncan" did not or does not actually have Ebola. It's all just performance art, right?

OCTOBER 28, 2014 AT 8:49 AM

I was JUST going to post this, and you beat me to it Night Driver.

Honestly, I don't know what I would do in my situation, if it happens. I know it's suicide, and that we just don't have the ability to help someone through this.

I think it comes down to who it's coming down with. If it's me or the wife, the other get the kids and get out. If it's the kids...hell, I don't even want to think about that.

It's a sobering thought.
 

night driver

ESFP adrift in INTJ sea
Guys, PLEASE understand i don't put these up to foster defeatism. More the opposite.

I post them to force people to start looking at this CLEARLY.
I post them to force people to accept FACTS (as shown by the numbers).

PLUS I post them to force people to begin to formulate a potential SUCCESSFUL personal plan for Ebola.

Understand that right now, with no vax, the only successful plan is "Don't be THERE!"
It's imperative that people decide to not indulge in congress or commerce in The World where Ebola is running rampant.

EVEN IF IT MEANS that you and your partner(s)/kid(s)/etc lose jobs etc.
Even if it means extended family and friends call you names.

If you, like me, area Christian Head of Family, you are Biblically charged with protecting your family and keeping them safe.

What's more important? Job? Ephemeral respect of friends and family?

Whiuch would you rather hear? Your cousin saying "We always respected him," as the rushing sound of the River Styx drowns out earthly reality? Or "Well done, thou good and faithful servant. Enter now into the presence of your Lord!"


As for ME and MY House, we will not be "There" for Ebola, as far as I can plan and execute.

You ought to make those plans also.


As general Mattis says:

“You cannot allow any of your people to avoid the brutal facts. If they start living in a dream world, it’s going to be bad.” – GEN James Mattis, USMC
 

Wise Owl

Deceased
The best defense against Ebola is not to get it in the first place. Obvious but profound. That means doing the thing that the OP suggested and being able to make the decision to shelter in place and keep everyone else out. It will probably be an uncomfortable decision because you'll have to make it before most other people do and before the infection is widespread. Obviously that will most likely cause family friction because your the only one doing it and everyone else will think your over reacting and of course it will probably cost you your job. At that point which is the lessor of the two evils. Your livlihood or the lives of you and your family. That will be an extremely hard decision for most people to make....and you have to make it early in the process before things are totally out of control.

It IS obvious, Hf. If you don't want to be exposed, stay home. Keep your family home. Call your boss and say you are taking a vacation till the threat has gone.

We have prepped for stay in place situations. Well, ebola is a STAY IN PLACE PREP. If you need to leave your house, don't go back. You may be the death of everyone in it. While I think anit's theory has merit, staying at home and not exposing yourself or your family being exposed is the way to go.

You either do this and live or you don't and watch everyone you love die. Your choice.
 

pinkelsteinsmom

Veteran Member
There's no way that I would watch (and/or isolate) someone I love while they struggle (and perhaps die) of a dreadful disease. I would hold them, and pray for them, and feed them, and clean them. And I would pray some more. And read the Bible to them, and sing hymns, and wipe their brow. And pray some more.

And if I die in the process, so be it. I'm 55 years old. I'd rather die doing the right thing than live an extra 20 years and hate myself every hour of every day for NOT DOING ALL THAT I COULD.

There's more to life than this earthly existence.

I know and so do the TPTB, they are counting on it. Seems that after weeks of talk regarding ebola and not action ( non stop people in the millions surrounding the gov in each state ) stopping this uncontrollable enemy gov from bringing it here, we are now looking at acceptance.

As bad as you can imagine how it might be, you will be very wrong. On top of that, if and when we are at that level of infection, we will be attacked by ISIS for you see, obola has them already lined up inside the country.

Yes, I know I have a very negative view point regarding this event, I wake now each day with tears for what I believe is coming to all of us. I am so stunned that this nothing of man has so much power he is unstoppable. I am stunned that the so called good guys, the republicans, sit quietly and allow the maximum destruction from this evil man in the WH.

There is a cure folks, that is the good news for if there wasn't, you WOULD see serious action from DC.

p.s. why is the log in time for new members so short you barely have time to put together a post of any length?
 

Wise Owl

Deceased
Thanks ND. Just thanks. I have posted to another forum that I have been trying to educate with plain facts for about 3 weeks now. Hopefully the last two posts from aesop will wake the doubters up. I hope.
 

xtreme_right

Veteran Member
I think it's very short-sighted to only have a plan A. Of course we are prepping to stay home if it comes to that. No one here is knowingly going to go out willy-nilly trying to get exposed. Plan A is to not get infected. Plan B is to be ready to offer palliative care.

I've read the stories of the people that were flown back to their home country and received the best care possible. All the people in Africa that DID survive probably didn't get close to that level of care. I'm guessing they didn't get much more than what we can do as individuals here. It's not 100% fatal, so I will do everything I can.

Btw, for those of you that say your plan is to not get it In the first place (and don't seem to have a plan B), I'm guessing you have already quit your jobs, pulled the kids out of school, etc and pulled up the draw bridge. You must have considering how dangerous Ebola is and the fact more people are allowed in the country every day from west Africa.

How can you be so sure when is the right time? That seems like a huge gamble. I'm guessing most people will wait til TS has truly HTF before making such a big decision. If you do it too soon, you would be out of a job.
 

jed turtle

a brother in the Lord
thanks ND! probably one of the most important and brutally honest threads you or anyone has ever posted.

the fact that we are less than 90 days to the mid-point of this current Tetrad of the Blood Moons (1-5-15) suggests to me that we are rapidly running out of time (and don't the devil know it...)

also that this epidemic is on the verge of going global if they've given up in Sierra Leonne, if our illegal alien Resident Commander In Chief isn't immediately replaced by somebody who understands the inevitable consequences of being led by a traitor / idiot.

if our People do not repent of their personal and national sins, it's all over but the crying and subsequent anguish/ pain.

the Day of Reckoning approaches and our souls (lives too) are on the Line.
 

kittyknits

Veteran Member
I haven't read the whole thread yet, but there is another thread on SELENIUM. How every virus particle needs a certain number of atoms of selenium to be neutralized (IIRC). Different viruses use different amounts, but I think ebola used a lot. I'm going to have to print some of these threads out, so I have the info at hand.

I intend to take a lot of selenium if this gets into my area. YMMV. I am not saying anyone else should do this; just read some of these threads--like the one on EGCG, also-- and make your own decisions.

I am trying to learn about whatever preventive measures might possibly exist.
 
Last edited:

cjoi

Veteran Member
The REASON Ebola causes the body and organs to "melt" and bleed out is EBOLA DESTROYS THE ENTIRE BODY VITAMIN C LEVEL (to ZERO) and the collagen the " glue" that holds the organs and tissues together and also C maintains blood vessel integrity is ABSOLUTELY DEPENDENT ON Vitamin C! Without it you get, bleed out, linings of tongue, throat, gut, etc to "come off" and "INSTANT end stage SCURVY which looks a lot like Ebola!

I believe that if an Ebola Victim is treated with ORAL"rehydration salts solution, HIGH vitamin C administered several times daily, high PPM Colloidal silver several times daily, (which kills the Ebola virus itself) and TURMERIC standardized to 95% Curcumin 400mg two to four times a day to PREVENT OR STOP A CYTOKINE STORM or "cascade" ( which is an auto-immune attack that Ebola triggers) and which, by itself can kill, if unchecked! . This TREATMENT SHOULD SAVE MANY MORE PEOPLE.

Certainly makes sense, Ainitfunny.
 

Plain Jane

Just Plain Jane
Thank You for this thoughtful post! I have already made suggestions about Vit. C and other preventatives, as well as some preps. for my loved ones. Did they listen? I don't know. BUT Can I do what the author suggests? I have yet to answer that myself. It hurts to even think about it.
 

kittyknits

Veteran Member
night driver,

Some of us live with people who refuse to fully understand the importance of "don't be there". When there are bodies dead in the streets of our town, he might get it. Until then, I have to make sure I have anything that might possibly help prevent or knock out in the early stages. I can't just sit here and be accepting of his attitude and resign myself to it.
 
Much to ponder in the OP - and disquieting to say the least.

Also must consider the ^^^ issue of abandoning all (most?) hope before trying - even after understanding that it might mean one's own demise.


Just seems so hope-less, perhaps that's why E. is so feared?
 
Top