SOFT NEWS 400,000 yr old remains REVEAL our Israeli/not African Origin

jonnybones

One Love, One Heart
(Could this be evidence of the Semitic origins of our current [Homeo Sapiens] gene pool? Could the early descendants of Adam/Eve have migrated from "Eden" [in area of ancient "Iraq"] towards Yisrael? Hmm...
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)

Remains of 400,000 year old Homeo Sapiens Located in Israel

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101227/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_ancient_teeth

JERUSALEM – Israeli archaeologists said Monday they may have found the earliest evidence yet for the existence of modern man, and if so, it could upset theories of the origin of humans.

A Tel Aviv University team excavating a cave in central Israel said teeth found in the cave are about 400,000 years old and resemble those of other remains of modern man, known scientifically as Homo sapiens, found in Israel. The earliest Homo sapiens remains found until now are half as old.

"It's very exciting to come to this conclusion," said archaeologist Avi Gopher, whose team examined the teeth with X-rays and CT scans and dated them according to the layers of earth where they were found.

He stressed that further research is needed to solidify the claim. If it does, he says, "this changes the whole picture of evolution."

The accepted scientific theory is that Homo sapiens originated in Africa and migrated out of the continent. Gopher said if the remains are definitively linked to modern human's ancestors, it could mean that modern man in fact originated in what is now Israel.

Sir Paul Mellars, a prehistory expert at Cambridge University, said the study is reputable, and the find is "important" because remains from that critical time period are scarce, but it is premature to say the remains are human.

"Based on the evidence they've sited, it's a very tenuous and frankly rather remote possibility," Mellars said. He said the remains are more likely related to modern man's ancient relatives, the Neanderthals.

According to today's accepted scientific theories, modern humans and Neanderthals stemmed from a common ancestor who lived in Africa about 700,000 years ago. One group of descendants migrated to Europe and developed into Neanderthals, later becoming extinct. Another group stayed in Africa and evolved into Homo sapiens — modern humans.

Teeth are often unreliable indicators of origin, and analyses of skull remains would more definitively identify the species found in the Israeli cave, Mellars said.

Gopher, the Israeli archaeologist, said he is confident his team will find skulls and bones as they continue their dig.

The prehistoric Qesem cave was discovered in 2000, and excavations began in 2004. Researchers Gopher, Ran Barkai and Israel Hershkowitz published their study in the American Journal of Physical Anthropology.
 

jonnybones

One Love, One Heart
Did first humans come out of Middle East and not Africa? Israeli discovery forces scientists to re-examine evolution of modern man

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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...ntists-forced-write-evolution-modern-man.html

By Matthew Kalman
Last updated at 7:51 AM on 28th December 2010


Scientists could be forced to re-write the history of the evolution of modern man after the discovery of 400,000-year-old human remains.

Until now, researchers believed that homo sapiens, the direct descendants of modern man, evolved in Africa about 200,000 years ago and gradually migrated north, through the Middle East, to Europe and Asia.

Recently, discoveries of early human remains in China and Spain have cast doubt on the 'Out of Africa' theory, but no-one was certain.

The new discovery of pre-historic human remains by Israeli university explorers in a cave near Ben-Gurion airport could force scientists to re-think earlier theories.

Archeologists from Tel Aviv University say eight human-like teeth found in the Qesem cave near Rosh Ha’Ayin - 10 miles from Israel’s international airport - are 400,000 years old, from the Middle Pleistocene Age, making them the earliest remains of homo sapiens yet discovered anywhere in the world.

The size and shape of the teeth are very similar to those of modern man. Until now, the earliest examples found were in Africa, dating back only 200,000 years.

Other scientists have argued that human beings originated in Africa before moving to other regions 150,000 to 200,000 years ago.

Homo sapiens discovered in Middle Awash, Ethiopia, from 160,000 years ago were believed to be the oldest 'modern' human beings.

Other remains previously found in Israeli caves are thought to have been more recent and 80,000 to 100,000 years old.

The findings of Professor Avi Gopher and Dr Ran Barkai of the Institute of Archeology at Tel Aviv University, published last week in the American Journal of Physical Anthropology, suggest that modern man did not originate in Africa as previously believed, but in the Middle East.

The Qesem cave was discovered in 2000 and has been the focus of intense study ever since.

Along with the teeth – the parts of the human skeleton that survive the longest – the researchers found evidence of a sophisticated early human society that used sharpened flakes of stone to cut meat and other impressive prehistoric tools.

The Israeli scientists said the remains found in the cave suggested the systematic production of flint blades, the habitual use of fire, evidence of hunting, cutting and sharing of animal meat, and mining raw materials to produce flint tools from rocks below ground.

'A diversified assemblage of flint blades was manufactured and used,' the Tel Aviv scientists wrote, describing the tools they found in the cave.

'Thick-edged blades, shaped through retouch, were used for scraping semi-hard materials such as wood or hide, whereas blades with straight, sharp working edges were used to cut soft tissues.'

The explorers said they were continuing to investigate the cave and its contents, expecting to make more discoveries that would shed further light on human evolution in prehistoric times.
 

jonnybones

One Love, One Heart
Imagine that, the bible is right,...again.... Who-da' thunk!

Precisely! ;)

Shalom, dear brothers and sisters in Messiah. Just for the sake of attempting to prevent any potential misinterpretations from the two media articles I posted (about the 400,000 yr old human remains in Israel),...I want to state for the record that I do not endorse vain fables and philosophies about so-called "macro-evolution" (one species changing entirely to become a completely different species), because our heavenly Abba יהוה specifically created each species to produce after it's own kind.

However,...yes,...I do believe in an old universe/Earth,..simply because there's too much evidence to indicate otherwise. The "6,000 year old" Earth theory just doesn't have any merit oncesoever.

There have been different human gene pools throughout the millennia, including Cro-Magnon and Neanderthal, as well as repeated infiltrations by the forces of darkness to corrupt human DNA and create hybrids (as revealed in Genesis chapter 6:2-4, etc.). This current gene pool (of Homeo Sapiens) has it's origins in Adam/Eve within "Eden" (formerly in "Iraq"), and the descendants eventually migrated towards Yisrael. It is my belief that Adam/Eve were commanded to replenish/refill the planet with new seed and a pure (undefiled by demonic hybrids) bloodline (through which the Messiah would come), and that later on, Noah and his family were spared (in an Ark during the Great Flood) from the rest of the corrupt humanity (who were also defiled by satanic hybridization).

In these end times, let us never forget the words of Messiah who said, "As it was in the days of Noah, so shall it also be during the coming of the Son of Man".

These archaeological discoveries (which confirm Biblical validity) are not a coincidence,...but rather,...sovereignly appointed signs for us to pay heed to, reminders about the past to never forget, as well as warnings about the future.
 

Merlot

Veteran Member
Of course the Bible was right. And 400k years is wrong because the dating mechanisms don't consider a world without entropy, i.e. before Adam and Eve ate the apple.
 

naturallysweet

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Scientist only picked Africa out of pure Darwinism prejudice. That way they could be justified in the Eugenics movement against all dark skinned individuals.

If people came from animals, then Africans would be closer to animals and white people would be further from animals. Therefore, it's okay to kill or prevent dark skinned people from breeding so that the superior white skinned people would be the only ones left. --- Yes pure garbage, but that was and is the thinking of many progressives. It was their reason for forced sterilizations and the murder of abortion for millions of innocent babies.

But if we all came out of the Middle East, then their Darwinist dreams are dashed. We are all distant cousins of each other and there is no excuse for prejudice or hatred based on skin color. (culture, attitudes, and customs are a different story.)
 

BadMedicine

Would *I* Lie???
well even the guys who found it aren't saying it. It's speculation. Either contaminated site find, or not homo sapien teeth... lotsa branches of homo.


Africa naturally has 5 of the 6 human phenome groups, implying that humans where there and diversifying the earliest. Scale of the image is 1000years.
 

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Richard

TB Fanatic
Scientist only picked Africa out of pure Darwinism prejudice. That way they could be justified in the Eugenics movement against all dark skinned individuals.

If people came from animals, then Africans would be closer to animals and white people would be further from animals. Therefore, it's okay to kill or prevent dark skinned people from breeding so that the superior white skinned people would be the only ones left. --- Yes pure garbage, but that was and is the thinking of many progressives. It was their reason for forced sterilizations and the murder of abortion for millions of innocent babies.

But if we all came out of the Middle East, then their Darwinist dreams are dashed. We are all distant cousins of each other and there is no excuse for prejudice or hatred based on skin color. (culture, attitudes, and customs are a different story.)

political correctness has nothing to do with scientific truth, the left have now a stranglehold over truth a did once the catholic church, the truth is
whether you like it or not
race has nothing whatsoever to do with the truth whether dark or white
 

Palmetto

Son, Husband, Father
I always wanted to be a Jewish architect or a marine biologist:

My name is Art Vandelay. I'm an architect.

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Flippper

Time Traveler
Coulda swore Neanderthal was a total hoax, just read something on that recently, as was Lucy and some discussion about Kennewick man being misrepresented.

I know they were saying for a long time that man came from Turkey. I happen to believe that evolution could not have happened-Adam and Eve's sin ushered in the first death making evolution an impossibility. There, to this day, has been no 'missing link' between ANY species, let alone simian and man.
 

PHD

Veteran Member
The article in the Journal of Physical Anthropology states that the dental material most closely resembles Skhul/Qafzeh teeth. The Skhul/Qafzeh fossils were identified as Neanderthals or a dead branch of Neanderthals so the authors are stating that the teeth are from the genus homo.

He also states that the dental traits could be plesiomophic to strongly suggest a homo sapien tooth or a new species from the Neanderthal line.

If this turns out to be true....it will set them on their ear because of the 200-400K evolutionary date.
 

West

Senior
I didn't see this posted here...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...0-000-year-old-finger-fossil-new-species.html

There were THREE types of ancient humans: 30,000-year-old fossils prove Neanderthals and modern humans were not the only species on Earth

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...-finger-fossil-new-species.html#ixzz19SXGjU3Z

Not 400,000 years old but interesting just the same...

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'This is an incredibly well-preserved sample, so it was a joy to work with data this nice.
'We don't know all the reasons why, but it is almost miraculous how well-preserved the DNA is,' said Dr Richard Green from the University of California, Santa Cruz.

Miraculous well-preserved or miraculously strong DNA?
 
..............

awwww, come on, cognitive dissonance anyone?


mankind is only 6,000 years old, remember? surely these 'remains' were planted by satan?


I've never bought the 'out of Africa' line either.


The timeline from our modern historians is seriously skewed. Carbon 14 cannot be trusted, thus the dating cannot be trusted. And anyways, these guys get together and VOTE on what they want to believe every few years or so. Some proof.


I am tending to believe some of Tsarians stuff, and also that some of the seedlings were planted here from other planets.


As for this article, it shows that anyone who accepts a single find as 'proof' of anything may be in for later surprises with later discoveries. Simple logic for simple minds who cannot handle complexities.
 

LMonty911

Deceased
why is anyone assuming just becaus ethey found th eremains in that area, that its where they were "created"? it could just be proof of people having existed and traveled out of Africa (or from anywhere else) to that place, much earlier than the times we previously had proof of.

Sounds to me is that if the tests prove it's human DNA, and it really is about 400,000 years old, the only thing these new specimens prove is that we have been around longer than we previously were aware of. And nothing else.

After all, theres an American flag on the moon. Just because we left an artifact there doesnt mean it was our birthplace.
 

Richard

TB Fanatic
Humans could have originated in that part of the ME, or there may be other similar relics to be found elsewhere in the world

obviously 400,000 years ago the political, social, religious and racial etc situation cannot be compared with recent history say from 4,000 BC (Egyptians onwards), so none of the nations and cultures existed in a form as we know
 

PHD

Veteran Member
Humans could have originated in that part of the ME, or there may be other similar relics to be found elsewhere in the world

obviously 400,000 years ago the political, social, religious and racial etc situation cannot be compared with recent history say from 4,000 BC (Egyptians onwards), so none of the nations and cultures existed in a form as we know

ON SOAPBOX NOW: The statement solely rests on our ability to accurately date rocks. That accuracy is dubious at best.

STEPPING OFF SOAPBOX NOW
 

ermey

Member
No offense to the OP, but it would NOT be "Israeli", as that would only date back to 1947, Common Era. Maybe you meant "Hebrew"?
 

BadMedicine

Would *I* Lie???
No offense to the OP, but it would NOT be "Israeli", as that would only date back to 1947, Common Era. Maybe you meant "Hebrew"?

Uh, I hate to be a history stickler but, Israeli is a modern version of 'israelitte' which is as ol as hebrew which is about... 6k ago. These is a caveman tooth.
 

PHD

Veteran Member
Not the same, historically or Biblically. Just sayin'.:groucho:

Jacob (also called Israel) was the Father of the 12 tribes. The original land given to the 12 tribes was called Israel and its inhabitants were called Israelites.

Historically and Biblically the same
 

Dennis Olson

Chief Curmudgeon
_______________
400,000 years ago, I doubt that those humans cared about God. Dragging women around by the hair was probably as far as they thought...
 

PHD

Veteran Member
400,000 years is a highly dubious date. Just like the dates they throw around in Africa.
 

bw

Fringe Ranger
400,000 years ago, I doubt that those humans cared about God. Dragging women around by the hair was probably as far as they thought...

Chimps appear to have some concept of gods, so in the ape lineage (which includes humans) it probably goes back 8 to 12 million years to our common ancestor. Humans would have compared and refined concepts of higher powers when they began to speak, perhaps 4-6 million years ago. By 400,000 years ago we had vocabularies of a hundred thousand words.

And dragging women around by the hair is strictly booty-of-war, not normal courting practice.
 

PHD

Veteran Member
Chimps appear to have some concept of gods, so in the ape lineage (which includes humans) it probably goes back 8 to 12 million years to our common ancestor. Humans would have compared and refined concepts of higher powers when they began to speak, perhaps 4-6 million years ago. By 400,000 years ago we had vocabularies of a hundred thousand words.

And dragging women around by the hair is strictly booty-of-war, not normal courting practice.

You have absolutely no proof of this. Prove this evolution of speech and a concept of a higher power with data.

Everything you say here is circular because it all assumes common ancestry is a fact. This concept in and of itself is not proven.
 

Richard

TB Fanatic
no one has any history whatsoever about 400 thousand years ago if dated true

there is a wealth of human history between BC 400,000 and BC 4,000 which we have no information about.....yet
 
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