ALERT RUSSIA INVADES UKRAINE - Consolidated Thread

M

mecoastie

Veteran Member
CaryC said:
I get what you are saying.

I don't trust the Russians anymore than I do our own MSM, or intelligence agencies.

BUT simply ignoring Russian demands, and make no mistake that is what Blinken is doing and all the other Sec. of State employees in their negotiations, is an even bigger mistake.

The very first thing our SS said was "...it's a non starter...".
Click to expand...

But Russias demands were a non starter and they knew it. Nowhere is any of the signed documents did NATO promise that they wouldnt expand. Everyone knows that unless it is on paper it doesnt mean crap. Those countries that asked to join know what Russia is capable of and know they dont have a prayer on their own.

The only country posturing is Russia. NATO troops arent on the move. The Ukraine is in no position to attack Russia. It was Russia that invaded the Ukraine in 2014. They got outmaneuvered with the coup. We arent ignoring them. I imagine they were told no repeatedly in the discussions.

I am serious when I say if I was Blinken I would scrawl something on a napkin.
 
M

mecoastie

Veteran Member
Vegas321 said:
At this point. Dumb politics asside. As a Nation. We have to put all military forces on high alart. Send ships out to sea, Bombers on patrol. And move assets.
Need to show strength.
Click to expand...

At this point I believe this is the only thing that might give the Russians pause. Do major "exercises" in Poland. A new REFORGER as someone here as repeatedly mentioned to get troops over there. Get troops into all that prepositioned equipment and disperse it. Only thing I wouldnt publicly exercise is our nuke stuff.
 
FreedomoftheHills

FreedomoftheHills

Contributing Member
TheSearcher said:
Because Russia demands a written answer to a question asked and answered repeatedly since the 1990s?

I am no fan of Blinken, but getting led around by the nose by Russia is a mistake no matter who is representing the USA.
Click to expand...

The US is being led around by the nose, alright, but it isn't by the Russians.

This is not the 1990s, and it us certainly not the '80s, and we would all do well to recognize the geopolitical changes. The Bolsheviks these days are not in Moscow, but sadly are firmly in control of US institutions and power structures.

This is less about whether or not we present written responses on Russia's timetable, and more about the fact that we have no one currently in the State Dept. who knows how to conduct legitimate diplomacy.

First we send a retired social worker (Wendy Sherman) to the talks in Geneva, where she refuses even to discuss Russian concerns, but instead atrempts to give orders on internal Russian troop movements!

Then Blinken goes on a tour of Europe, still refusing to address concerns of his Russian counterparts.

That is not diplomacy, it is (at best) lunacy, at worst an attempt to instigate armed conflict.
 
CaryC

CaryC

Has No Life - Lives on TB
mecoastie said:
But Russias demands were a non starter and they knew it.
Click to expand...
While that may be true. It's shouldn't be vocalized in negotiations. Because then there is nothing to negotiate. As noted from the lack of discussions ever since.
mecoastie said:
Nowhere is any of the signed documents did NATO promise that they wouldnt expand. Everyone knows that unless it is on paper it doesnt mean crap.
Click to expand...
And it would appear the Russians know this and is the reason they want it on paper.

But no what they got from the outset was "...it's a non-starter...".

For the US to take that position out in the open, so is unretractable, gives Russia the idea that they must do something to protect their borders. Pushing back the NATO advance. And while there may not be any US/NATO troops on the ground in Ukraine (but there is) that has not been the case since the '90, which makes Russia case.

And never forget, this is the admin that oversaw the Afgan debacle. Think they will do better this time?
 
M

mecoastie

Veteran Member
CaryC said:
While that may be true. It's shouldn't be vocalized in negotiations. Because then there is nothing to negotiate. As noted from the lack of discussions ever since.

And it would appear the Russians know this and is the reason they want it on paper.

But no what they got from the outset was "...it's a non-starter...".

For the US to take that position out in the open, so is unretractable, gives Russia the idea that they must do something to protect their borders. Pushing back the NATO advance. And while there may not be any US/NATO troops on the ground in Ukraine (but there is) that has not been the case since the '90, which makes Russia case.

And never forget, this is the admin that oversaw the Afgan debacle. Think they will do better this time?
Click to expand...

It happens in negotiations all the time in every facet of life. A hard no is a hard no. I actually think it was one of the better diplomatic moves of this admin. If my kid comes up and says Dad I want a car and it has to be a brand new Tesla. My one word answer is No. Now if they come and say Dad I want a car and here is what I have for money etc, that is when the discussions and negotiations start. How should the US have handled it?

There arent many troops in the Ukraine. They are in a training role and have been there for years. Certainly nothing that will change the outcome. If there were any troops being brought in any number than Russia would be screaming from the rooftops. I know the Daily Mail has reported that British Troops were being brought in but aside from a blip on 100 additional trainers I havent found anything.

This admin cant tie its shoes. And that has been shown by the follow on after the no. If we are going to say no we need to be moving troops into Europe. Show Putin that we are serious and more importantly be ready to defend NATO. They dont understand that Putin doesnt care about words. Its the actions that would give him pause.
 
TheSearcher

TheSearcher

Are you sure about that?
The one thing that has been consistent over at least five US presidential administrations is telling Russia no on the NATO expansion discussion. Also consistent is Russia trying to get the assurance in writing that NATO won't continue expansion every time the US gets a new administration.

At some point, "non-starter" is the answer Russia gets, just to save time. Blinken can be a complete idiot and that's an unrelated condition.

Now, that said, I don't believe we've been more peril than we are right now. It is abundantly obvious that Russia intends to reabsorb Ukraine, and we are making moves to counter. I do agree that the moves are probably too small, and it probably makes Ukraine look like an easy prize. The ball is in Russia's court, will they back off, or will they be dicks and start WWIII? The organs of the West will share that dick status, as they currently refuse to show enough strength to make Russia go another route.

And maybe that's the plan.
 
Last edited:
T

Techwreck

Veteran Member
mecoastie said:
It happens in negotiations all the time in every facet of life. A hard no is a hard no. I actually think it was one of the better diplomatic moves of this admin. If my kid comes up and says Dad I want a car and it has to be a brand new Tesla. My one word answer is No. Now if they come and say Dad I want a car and here is what I have for money etc, that is when the discussions and negotiations start. How should the US have handled it?

There arent many troops in the Ukraine. They are in a training role and have been there for years. Certainly nothing that will change the outcome. If there were any troops being brought in any number than Russia would be screaming from the rooftops. I know the Daily Mail has reported that British Troops were being brought in but aside from a blip on 100 additional trainers I havent found anything.

This admin cant tie its shoes. And that has been shown by the follow on after the no. If we are going to say no we need to be moving troops into Europe. Show Putin that we are serious and more importantly be ready to defend NATO. They dont understand that Putin doesnt care about words. Its the actions that would give him pause.
Click to expand...


Sounds like you and your kid have a parent child relationship.
That's what the US wants to be, the parent.
If your kid had hypersonic nuclear weapons, you might want to hear him out, and then talk him out of the new Tesla through negotiations.
Just my opinion.
 
danielboon

danielboon

TB Fanatic
EndGameWW3

@EndGameWW3
·
6m

U.K. isn't messing around....
Quote Tweet






681FnRJ0_mini.jpg


Liveuamap

@Liveuamap
· 14m
Eighth C-17 out of RAF Brize Norton heading to Ukraine as U.K. Armed Forces Minister confirms U.K. is sending"thousands" of NLAW anti-tank guided missiles to Ukraine https://liveuamap.com/en/2022/19-january-eighth-c17-out-of-raf-brize-norton-heading-to… via @ELINTNews
1642612914771.png
 
Seeker22

Seeker22

Has No Life - Lives on TB
FreedomoftheHills said:
The US is being led around by the nose, alright, but it isn't by the Russians.

This is not the 1990s, and it us certainly not the '80s, and we would all do well to recognize the geopolitical changes. The Bolsheviks these days are not in Moscow, but sadly are firmly in control of US institutions and power structures.

This is less about whether or not we present written responses on Russia's timetable, and more about the fact that we have no one currently in the State Dept. who knows how to conduct legitimate diplomacy.

First we send a retired social worker (Wendy Sherman) to the talks in Geneva, where she refuses even to discuss Russian concerns, but instead atrempts to give orders on internal Russian troop movements!

Then Blinken goes on a tour of Europe, still refusing to address concerns of his Russian counterparts.

That is not diplomacy, it is (at best) lunacy, at worst an attempt to instigate armed conflict.
Click to expand...

Bolshevicks (spit!) are also the reason we have no Civil Defense.
 
N

northern watch

TB Fanatic
Massive intelligence gathering effort underway over Europe
By George Allison
UK Defence Journal
January 19, 202

Earlier today ten surveillance aircraft from multiple NATO members, including Britain, flew over the Baltics and Ukraine.

The below graphic shows “a collection of NATO and Swedish ISR flights from December 30th, 2021 to January 18th, 2022.”
The following tweets, reproduced with permission, are part of a collaboration between two well known and well respected Twitter accounts. @ameliairheart tracks and details the activities of the aircraft of various armed forces and keeps people informed on what those aircraft are doing, she also has a blog that you can visit here. The blog is recommended reading. @Orion__int is a freelance open-source intelligence analyst known for combining 3D tracks with satellite imagery, you can find him on Twitter by clicking here.

osint1.jpg


Activity in the time period examined below focuses on Kaliningrad and Crimea, reports @Orion__int. According to @ameliaairheart, the following western surveillance aircraft were in the air today.
  • USN P-8A (PK18x)
  • US Army RC-12Xs (YANK01 & YANK03)
  • USAF RC-135W (JAKE11)
  • USAF E-8C (REDEYE6)
  • British P-8A (GURNY01)
  • British RC-135W (RRR7205)
  • Swedish S100D (SVF604)
  • Swedish S102B (SVF623)
  • Norwegian 20ECM (NOW717H)
  • German P-3C (GNY4500)
Context?

Currently, there is a massive western effort underway related to Ukraine in the face of a potential Russian invasion. Ignoring the surveillance flights, there’s also an effort to arm Ukraine.

According to a statement given by the Defence Secretary in the House of Commons on the 17th of January 2022.

“As of today, tens of thousands of Russian troops are positioned close to the Ukrainian border. Their deployment is not routine, and they are equipped with tanks, armoured fighting vehicles, rocket artillery, and short-range ballistic missiles. I can today confirm to the House that, in light of the increasingly threatening behaviour from Russia, and in addition to our current support, the UK is providing a new security assistance package to increase Ukraine’s defensive capabilities.

We have taken the decision to supply Ukraine with light, anti-armour, defensive weapon systems. A small number of UK personnel will also provide early-stage training for a short period of time, within the framework of Operation ORBITAL, before then returning to the United Kingdom. This security assistance package complements the training and capabilities that Ukraine already has, and those that are also being provided by the UK and other Allies in Europe and the United States. Ukraine has every right to defend its borders, and this new package of aid further enhances its ability to do so.

Let me be clear: this support is for short-range, and clearly defensive weapons capabilities; they are not strategic weapons and pose no threat to Russia. They are to use in self-defence and the UK personnel providing the early-stage training will return to the United Kingdom after completing it.”

Massive intelligence gathering effort underway over Europe (ukdefencejournal.org.uk)
 
M

Marthanoir

TB Fanatic
How Russia could sleepwalk into ‘Vietnam War’ in Ukraine invasion facing kill zones, guerrillas & US special forces

RUSSIA could sleepwalk into a Vietnam-style war in Ukraine where it faces fierce resistance by guerrilla fighters backed by US special forces.

Vladimir Putin has massed 100,000 troops massed on the border with Ukraine but its neighbour hopes any invasion will see Kremlin forces sucked into killing zones in a long and bloody conflict.

Fears have been mounting that Putin could order his forces to launch what he hopes would be lighting strike for a quick victory over Ukraine.

But behind the scenes, several hundred US Green Beret special forces have been working with the Ukrainians to ensure Russia faces a bloodbath in the country.

The CIA has also been working on secret training that has taught the Ukrainians how “to kill Russians", a former agency official has said.

And Ukrainian forces are already being equipped with anti-tank weapons by the UK which guerrilla forces would use to create killing zones for massed Russian armoured forces.

Despite being initially overrun by the sheer number of Russian forces, it’s now widely believed the “fiercely nationalistic” Ukrainians plan to keep fighting.

Defence analyst Colonel Richard Kemp and told The Sun Online the prospect of Russia becoming embroiled in a Vietnam-style a war is “definitely a possibility”.

“It would need assistance in the form weaponry and intelligence from the United States, the UK and other countries,” said Col Kemp, who commanded UK forces in Afghanistan.

“If Russian forces occupy Ukraine, then they need to pay a price for it but that’s not going to come from Nato forces coming in an ejecting them.

“The only option that the Ukrainian people have for defending their sovereignty is that type of warfare. That’s going to cost a lot of lives on both sides.”

Senior serving and former US military leaders have warned the Russians they face an insurgency similar to the one they faced during their 10 year occupation of Afghanistan.

Former US assistant Defense Secretary Lawrence Korb said he recently went to Russia to warn them about invading Ukraine, based on the US experience in Vietnam.

Writing in The National Interest he said that “during my time in Moscow, it became clear to me that the Ukrainian military would not be overrun by the Russians as they were in 2014”.

BATTLE HARDENED

Given reports that Ukraine was preparing to resist Russia using guerrilla tactics it was “likely that its efforts would turn out similarly to the United States experience in Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan”.

Rob Clarke, Defence Policy Associate at the Henry Jackson Society, told The Sun Online there will “100 per cent” be a guerrilla war backed by the US if Russia invades.

He said the possibility of such a conflict stems from “just how nationalistic and proud the Ukrainians are”.

He said Ukrainian reserve forces, made up of civilians, have been training for exactly such an outcome.

The Ukrainian conventional forces will quickly be overwhelmed within a matter of weeks and then it’s the civilians and reserves who will fight and the will is there,” he said.

“There will be guerrilla resistance given how proud and nationalistic the Ukrainians are.

“You can expect large CIA funding for a guerrilla war. There will also be American forces on the ground assisting the Ukrainians though not actually fighting.

“There are already several hundred US special forces in Ukraine training and advising the military".

He said “any invasion will be short, swift and incredibly bloody” and Putin’s aim “will probably try to go as far as the capital Kiev for regime change and the return to a pro-Russian leader”.

But while there will be a bloody guerrilla conflict, he believes it’s unlikely to drag on.

BLOODY GUERRILLA CAMPAIGN

“Putin wants a short sharp invasion to get concessions out of the West. Anything longer than March and April is going to be incredibly costly for him politically.

“The one thing Putin cares about is his own survival and that rests on the armed forces.

“If he draws them into a bloody guerrilla campaign that’s going to lose him the support of the Russian armed forces incredibly quickly.”

Ukraine's former defence minister Andriy Zagorodnyuk said his country's forces are "battle hardened" after eight years of fighting Russia.

Polls have shown one in three Ukrainians have said they're prepared to take up arms, he wrote for the Atlantic Council.

Combat veterans, reservists, special forces and "large number of volunteers" will allow Ukraine to create "thousands of highly mobile groups" to attack the Russians.

'EXTRAORDINARILY STUPID'

"This will make it virtually impossible for the Kremlin to establish any kind of administration over occupied areas or secure its lines of supply," he said.

The UK’s armed forces minister James Heappey has warned a war could be “days away” and said Putin needs to be aware it will be costly for him.

"This is a war in which tens of thousands of people are going to die and if Putin is being briefed in Moscow that this can be bloodless he's being lied to,” he told the BBC.

Speaking on LBC later, he feared Putin could be tempted into an invasion without fully thinking through the consequences.

“I think there is a grave possibility that he may and I think that it would be an extraordinarily stupid thing to do,” he said.

“There's absolutely no chance, as I fear Putin might believe, that the Ukrainians are ready to welcome him as their liberator.

“I was in Kiev last week and what I saw was a proud, sovereign nation facing an existential threat and knowing to the very core of their being that they will fight every inch."

www.thesun.ie

Russia may sleepwalk into 'Vietnam War’ in Ukraine with guerrillas & US troops

RUSSIA could sleepwalk into a Vietnam-style war in Ukraine where it faces fierce resistance by guerrilla fighters backed by US special forces. Vladimir Putin has massed 100,000 troops massed on the…
www.thesun.ie www.thesun.ie
 
M

mecoastie

Veteran Member
Techwreck said:
Sounds like you and your kid have a parent child relationship.
That's what the US wants to be, the parent.
If your kid had hypersonic nuclear weapons, you might want to hear him out, and then talk him out of the new Tesla through negotiations.
Just my opinion.
Click to expand...

Russia has repeatedly stated that their demands are not negotiable. There really isnt much to talk out at that point. As above this is an old issue. Difference now is we have the weakest admin since Carter and our military has been beat up by 20 years of war and now political correctness. Russias military is stronger than it has been since the 80s. Russias best shot at NATO probably ever is now.

Russias move into the Ukraine in 2014 actually woke some of NATO up. The Poles and the Balkans started rearming as did the Scandanavian countries. The US moved tanks back to Europe and the Brits stopped the bleed on their armored forces. Even France woke up a bit. Only Germany continued to decline.
 
W

Walrus

Veteran Member
mecoastie said:
At this point I believe this is the only thing that might give the Russians pause. Do major "exercises" in Poland. A new REFORGER as someone here as repeatedly mentioned to get troops over there. Get troops into all that prepositioned equipment and disperse it. Only thing I wouldnt publicly exercise is our nuke stuff.
Click to expand...
That's all already known anyway by those who matter - at least in terms of volume, not necessarily location.

I believe that all we need to do to avoid a completely unnecessary war (and destruction of NATO as a viable entity in the process) is to open the window to negotiations just a crack so that Putin will see that there actually is a non-kinetic way forward. Get the idiots like unthinkin' Blinken, Jan Stoltenberg and Wendy Sherman out of the way, as well as the rest of the NATO blowhards, so Putin can rein in his underlings as well.

The deployments he's doing aren't necessarily imperial. They can be seen as prudent maneuvers which might become necessary if NATO/US remain intractable and inflammatory. I also don't think that trampling over the Ukrainian forces are his desired option but once again, I fall back to Churchill's analysis about Russia's actions always aligning with whatever is in Russia's best interests at the time.

My real concern about this Ukrainian thing is that this administration and our present Milley-tary aren't strategic enough thinkers to consider the possibility of a two-front war and its consequences. I personally don't think that Ukraine is near as important to the West as Taiwan is, for instance. But Xi would love nothing more, imo, than to move on Taiwan while we were stretched to the limit "supporting" Ukraine. I don't even like us arming them.
 
N

northern watch

TB Fanatic
Marthanoir said:
How Russia could sleepwalk into ‘Vietnam War’ in Ukraine invasion facing kill zones, guerrillas & US special forces

RUSSIA could sleepwalk into a Vietnam-style war in Ukraine where it faces fierce resistance by guerrilla fighters backed by US special forces.

Vladimir Putin has massed 100,000 troops massed on the border with Ukraine but its neighbour hopes any invasion will see Kremlin forces sucked into killing zones in a long and bloody conflict.

Fears have been mounting that Putin could order his forces to launch what he hopes would be lighting strike for a quick victory over Ukraine.

But behind the scenes, several hundred US Green Beret special forces have been working with the Ukrainians to ensure Russia faces a bloodbath in the country.

The CIA has also been working on secret training that has taught the Ukrainians how “to kill Russians", a former agency official has said.

And Ukrainian forces are already being equipped with anti-tank weapons by the UK which guerrilla forces would use to create killing zones for massed Russian armoured forces.

Despite being initially overrun by the sheer number of Russian forces, it’s now widely believed the “fiercely nationalistic” Ukrainians plan to keep fighting.

Defence analyst Colonel Richard Kemp and told The Sun Online the prospect of Russia becoming embroiled in a Vietnam-style a war is “definitely a possibility”.

“It would need assistance in the form weaponry and intelligence from the United States, the UK and other countries,” said Col Kemp, who commanded UK forces in Afghanistan.

“If Russian forces occupy Ukraine, then they need to pay a price for it but that’s not going to come from Nato forces coming in an ejecting them.

“The only option that the Ukrainian people have for defending their sovereignty is that type of warfare. That’s going to cost a lot of lives on both sides.”

Senior serving and former US military leaders have warned the Russians they face an insurgency similar to the one they faced during their 10 year occupation of Afghanistan.

Former US assistant Defense Secretary Lawrence Korb said he recently went to Russia to warn them about invading Ukraine, based on the US experience in Vietnam.

Writing in The National Interest he said that “during my time in Moscow, it became clear to me that the Ukrainian military would not be overrun by the Russians as they were in 2014”.

BATTLE HARDENED

Given reports that Ukraine was preparing to resist Russia using guerrilla tactics it was “likely that its efforts would turn out similarly to the United States experience in Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan”.

Rob Clarke, Defence Policy Associate at the Henry Jackson Society, told The Sun Online there will “100 per cent” be a guerrilla war backed by the US if Russia invades.

He said the possibility of such a conflict stems from “just how nationalistic and proud the Ukrainians are”.

He said Ukrainian reserve forces, made up of civilians, have been training for exactly such an outcome.

The Ukrainian conventional forces will quickly be overwhelmed within a matter of weeks and then it’s the civilians and reserves who will fight and the will is there,” he said.

“There will be guerrilla resistance given how proud and nationalistic the Ukrainians are.

“You can expect large CIA funding for a guerrilla war. There will also be American forces on the ground assisting the Ukrainians though not actually fighting.

“There are already several hundred US special forces in Ukraine training and advising the military".

He said “any invasion will be short, swift and incredibly bloody” and Putin’s aim “will probably try to go as far as the capital Kiev for regime change and the return to a pro-Russian leader”.

But while there will be a bloody guerrilla conflict, he believes it’s unlikely to drag on.

BLOODY GUERRILLA CAMPAIGN

“Putin wants a short sharp invasion to get concessions out of the West. Anything longer than March and April is going to be incredibly costly for him politically.

“The one thing Putin cares about is his own survival and that rests on the armed forces.

“If he draws them into a bloody guerrilla campaign that’s going to lose him the support of the Russian armed forces incredibly quickly.”

Ukraine's former defence minister Andriy Zagorodnyuk said his country's forces are "battle hardened" after eight years of fighting Russia.

Polls have shown one in three Ukrainians have said they're prepared to take up arms, he wrote for the Atlantic Council.

Combat veterans, reservists, special forces and "large number of volunteers" will allow Ukraine to create "thousands of highly mobile groups" to attack the Russians.

'EXTRAORDINARILY STUPID'

"This will make it virtually impossible for the Kremlin to establish any kind of administration over occupied areas or secure its lines of supply," he said.

The UK’s armed forces minister James Heappey has warned a war could be “days away” and said Putin needs to be aware it will be costly for him.

"This is a war in which tens of thousands of people are going to die and if Putin is being briefed in Moscow that this can be bloodless he's being lied to,” he told the BBC.

Speaking on LBC later, he feared Putin could be tempted into an invasion without fully thinking through the consequences.

“I think there is a grave possibility that he may and I think that it would be an extraordinarily stupid thing to do,” he said.

“There's absolutely no chance, as I fear Putin might believe, that the Ukrainians are ready to welcome him as their liberator.

“I was in Kiev last week and what I saw was a proud, sovereign nation facing an existential threat and knowing to the very core of their being that they will fight every inch."

www.thesun.ie

Russia may sleepwalk into 'Vietnam War’ in Ukraine with guerrillas & US troops

RUSSIA could sleepwalk into a Vietnam-style war in Ukraine where it faces fierce resistance by guerrilla fighters backed by US special forces. Vladimir Putin has massed 100,000 troops massed on the…
www.thesun.ie www.thesun.ie
Click to expand...
Two can play at the guerrilla war game, Biden has left the southern US border wide open. I am certain that the Russian chess masters have slipped in forces to start blowing things up if Biden plays games in the Ukraine.
 
adgal

adgal

Veteran Member
jward said:
hmm.

Hans Mahncke
@HansMahncke

ICYMI, Ukraine has charged Petro Poroshenko with treason. Recall Poroshenko was Biden's partner in crime, ie firing the prosecutor who was investigating Hunter's boss. Right before the prosecutor was fired, Hunter was told that the investigations needed to be closed. What a mess.
https://twitter.com/HansMahncke/status/1483652490524561412?s=20



joshua
@yiddishekopf
1h

Replying to
@HansMahncke

“They say that the final decision on Petro Poroshenko will be made after President Zelensky meets with US Secretary of State Anthony Blinken. Soon we will find out the degree of controllability of Zelensky and the plans of the States for Poroshenko.”




lyn- Let's Go Brandon | Will Not Comply
@ly61357484
1h

Replying to
@HansMahncke

Law of War Manual from the Dept of Defense. Full of great info! Section 8.16.2.4 has the limitations on the death penalty. fyi. https://dod.defense.gov/Portals/1/Docu
Click to expand...
I've been thinking about this post a lot. The Ukraine has basically been the money-laundering state for both the Clinton and Biden families. If Poroshenko actually goes down - will he talk? Will they learn more about what both of these deep state families have done? Is that enough provocation to throw Ukraine to the Russian wolves by a series of well-planned and purposefully executed diplomatic failures? Is the Deep State trying to get Russia to do their dirty work and get rid of all of the evidence?
 
M

mecoastie

Veteran Member
northern watch said:
Two can play at the guerrilla war game, Biden has left the southern US border wide open. I am certain that the Russian chess masters have slipped in forces to start blowing things up if Biden plays games in the Ukraine.
Click to expand...
Who will support them? They arent going to last long without the support of the people. I tihnk it would be more of a suicide mission.
 
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