Melodi
Disaster Cat
And remember to adjust if you are at a high altitude, most books have the adjustments for canning purposes (how much you adjust for say Denver or Estes Park).
CORONA Main Coronavirus thread
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raven
TB Fanatic
Cars
Homes
Tow Trucks
gonna be lots of good deals out there if you have cash
What's in your wallet.
Trivium Pursuit
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Someone needs to track that Chinese woman down and test the h*** out of her to figure out why the virus did not affect her. that's where the real defense needs to come fromMaybe I should send this to the Lee County health department. (see article above)
(fair use applies)
Chinese researchers just confirmed that patients can transmit the coronavirus without showing symptoms. A woman passed it to 5 relatives.
A woman tested positive for the coronavirus but she never became physically ill. Her family members, however, developed fevers.www.yahoo.com
Chinese researchers just confirmed that patients can transmit the coronavirus without showing symptoms.
A woman passed it to 5 relatives.
Business Insider•February 21, 2020
A 20-year-old woman from Wuhan, China, transmitted the coronavirus to her family members without ever showing any symptoms, a new study found.
The woman tested positive for the virus, but her CT scans were clear and she never became physically ill.
Five of her family members, however, came down with a fever. Two developed severe pneumonia.
The case is evidence that the coronavirus can be transmitted when someone is asymptomatic.
Chinese researchers have confirmed a case of asymptomatic transmission of the new coronavirus: A 20-year-old woman from Wuhan passed it to five of her family members but never got physically sick herself.
The case study is the first concrete evidence that a person showing no symptoms can pass the coronavirus to others — a fact that could make curbing the outbreak even more challenging.
The researchers behind the finding said the 20-year-old woman was isolated and closely observed at the Fifth People's Hospital of Anyang. She never become physically ill, even after her family members developed fevers. Two of them got severe pneumonia.
For now, the woman's asymptomatic transmission appears to be an anomaly, but health experts have documented other instances in which people tested positive for the virus without showing symptoms.
A report from the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention analyzed records of all of China's reported cases of the virus from December 8 to February 11 and found that 1.2% of patients confirmed to be infected showed no symptoms. A far higher portion of asymptomatic cases was found on the Diamond Princess cruise ship, where 322 of 621 people tested positive but showed no symptoms.
"It's very clear that the people who are getting caught in that umbrella of reporting are the people that present themselves to a hospital," Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, said at a briefing on February 6. "There's another whole cohort that is either asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic."
The 20-year-old woman in the new case study lives in Wuhan — the city where the outbreak started — but traveled to Anyang on January 10. Three days later, she went with five family members to visit a sick patient (who did not have the coronavirus) at the Anyang District Hospital.
On January 17, one of the woman's family members came down with a fever and sore throat. The following week, the other four relatives developed a fever and respiratory symptoms. Those relatives were admitted to the Fifth People's Hospital on January 26.
All of the family members tested positive for the coronavirus. The only person they'd had contact with who had been in Wuhan was their 20-year-old relative.
When doctors initially tested the young woman for the coronavirus, the results came back negative. Her CT scan was normal, too. But a day later, she tested positive for the virus even though she wasn't showing any symptoms. By February 11, the woman still had no fever, cough, sore throat, or gastrointestinal issues.
Doctors concluded that the woman's incubation period — the time during which she was infectious — was 19 days. Chinese health officials previously estimated that the incubation period for the virus ranged from one to 14 days, but recent research suggests it could be as long as 24 days.
The US and many other countries have established quarantine rules for travelers from Wuhan based on that 14-day window.
Asymptomatic transmission in Germany?
Most of the coronavirus cases so far have been mild, but the virus has killed more than 2,200 people and infected more than 76,000. Though the majority of cases are on the Chinese mainland, the virus has spread to 29 other countries.
A case of asymptomatic transmission similar to the one described in the new case study was previously identified in Germany. But that research turned out to be flawed.
According to a letter published in the New England Journal of Medicine, a woman from Shanghai transmitted the virus to a 33-year-old German businessman in January. Three days later, he felt better and went back to work, then infected at least two of his colleagues. But the researchers had not spoken with the woman, who had in fact experienced mild symptoms at the time of transmission.
That left scientists unsure as to whether people who never experience any symptoms can transmit the disease — until today.
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raven
TB Fanatic
yep, they suck the virus right out of those rooms and blow it outside, right into your neighborhood
Trivium Pursuit
Has No Life - Lives on TB
And hire someone you really don't like to disinfect them for you first?
DazedandConfused
Veteran Member
CDC can test ! If you don't test then there are no new cases to report keeps panic low.
EMICT
Veteran Member
The CDC is just like every other big government bureaucratic organization loaded with people who would have a hard time getting a job in the public sector.
I know, they've been described as heroes... if you don't believe me, just ask any one of them.
Carl2
Pass it forward...
Yesterday I picked up an eye drops prescription; the renewals had run out, so the pharmacy had to contact my opthalmologist. When I picked up the prescription, there were three bottles instead of the normal one bottle. I think my doctor realizes what the coronavirus / China shutdown situation means for pharmaceuticals availability. . . bless her! Those drops slow the progress of the glaucoma that someday may make me blind.
adgal
Veteran Member
You’ll just have to soak them in bleach before you drive them.
bw
Fringe Ranger
Surgical masks are long gone.
The Economic Collapse
Are You Prepared For The Coming Economic Collapse And The Next Great Depression?
theeconomiccollapseblog.com
February 20, 2020 by Michael Snyder
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We still don’t know if this coronavirus outbreak will become a horrific worldwide pandemic or not, but what we have seen so far is definitely very alarming. People have literally been dropping dead in the streets, the Chinese government has locked down major city after major city, and the virus kept spreading very rapidly on a cruise ship off the coast of Japan even though a strict quarantine was instituted. Scientists that have studied the virus are telling us that it “could be 20 times more lethal than the flu”, and it binds to human cell receptors much more easily than the SARS virus did. Unfortunately, because the epicenter of this crisis is on the other side of the globe, most Americans are simply not paying much attention to it. In fact, most of the people that my wife and I have been talking to and hearing from don’t think that the coronavirus is much of a threat to the United States at all.And if the coronavirus does start to become a problem in this country, a new survey has found that most Americans are quite confident that the government can handle it…
Hopefully this coronavirus outbreak will not explode in North America and our normal lives will not be disrupted.
But considering what is happening over in Asia, it would definitely be prudent to take some precautions. Unfortunately, most Americans are not really doing much of anything to prepare for a potential pandemic at this point.
If a pandemic does not materialize, that won’t be a problem. But if this virus starts spreading like wildfire in the U.S., we are going to have a massive crisis on our hands.
The time to stop an outbreak from happening is at the very beginning, and the lack of urgency about this virus that we are witnessing from local health officials around the country is absolutely stunning.
According to NBC News, there are thousands of Americans that are currently “under voluntary self-quarantine”. These individuals have either recently traveled to China or they have recently had contact with someone that was infected.
As you might assume, a “voluntary self-quarantine” is not mandatory. Instead, NBC News says that it is “strongly encouraged”…
So anyone that doesn’t want to participate can feel free to mix with the general public as much as they want.
Isn’t that great?
And since it is “up to the state and local health departments to decide how to manage residents under self-quarantine”, there is no single set of standards that is being followed.
In other words, state and local health officials are free to make things up as they go along.
We aren’t talking about a small number of people either. In fact, more than 5,000 people are under self-quarantine in California alone…
All it takes is a couple of “super spreaders” to get a real good outbreak going, and to see such a lack of concern about preventing the spread of this disease is quite disheartening.
And this lackadaisical attitude has even extended to actual victims that have been confirmed to have the virus. The CDC specifically warned against putting infected people on the same flight with non-infected people, but the U.S. government did it anyway…
Reading this sort of thing makes you want to tear your hair out.
Despite such extreme negligence, hopefully everything will be okay. But it should be noted that the CDC is telling hospitals that now “is the time to open up your pandemic plans and see that things are in order”…
Anyone that assumed that this crisis would be largely confined to China has been proven wrong. At this point, we have already seen significant outbreaks erupt in several other countries in Asia. In fact, there are now six other nations where “community spread” is taking place…
- Japan
- Singapore
- South Korea
- Taiwan
- Thailand
- Vietnam
If we don’t want the same thing to happen here, we need to take this virus very seriously.
Unfortunately, that is simply not happening, and all of us could end up paying a great price as a result.
About the Author: I am a voic
Jubilee on Earth
Veteran Member
I don't pop onto Facebook often, nor do I have a wide circle of friends. But I do belong to a few different groups. Seems like every time I take a look at my newsfeed, I see a post that is alarming and that may indicate the virus is already spreading far more than we may realize. (Edited to add that this person lives in the Knoxville, TN area)
Trivium Pursuit
Has No Life - Lives on TB
I'm going to re post this for added emphasis and to make sure everyone sees it. I keep trying to forget about it but this explains what we're seeing not just here, but worldwide practically:
The CDC is just like every other big government bureaucratic organization loaded with people who would have a hard time getting a job in the public sector.
vector7
Dot Collector
At this point and I'm hesitant to even say this I think they need to get out of the way let somebody that knows about radiological biological and chemical attacks run the show. (US Army)..If the CDC and HHS does not get on the ball real fast they'll be 20% less people in our country this time next year and that's probably an underestimate...
raven
TB Fanatic
I remember when I was 12, me and my friend Bill were looking to make a few bucks. Bill's dad drove a cattle truck and he offered us $5 a piece to clean the trailer. Trailer was parked at the slaughter house and backed up to a fire hose. So we climbed up to the top level of the trailer, opened the hatch, and turned that fire hose onto about 2 foot deep of wet, soupy cow manure . . . OMG!! It was like armaghedon . . . that shit just exploded and wet everwhere. We were covered head to toe.
Now when I think about it, I have made most of my income cleaning up other peoples messes. It isn't that hard. You just start at the door and work your way from there. Slow and steady winds the race.
Having said that, one must remember that if you get the virus, you do not need a new car.
If you don't get the virus, yo probably never will.
Trivium Pursuit
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Indeed; Spring Break Is Coming...
Melodi
Disaster Cat
The average civil servant working for the CDC has no more say in what information is let out than you or I do and in some cases less (rules that prevent them from talking).
Also, in my experience, on average yes any civil service in the US, UK or Ireland tends to have a good number of people who might have a hard time getting a private-sector job but not because they are not competent.
It is because as Dennis himself once observed here while on a contract job to a US Federal office, they tend to be older, fatter and have higher levels of physical (but not mental) disability.
Think about it, in the private sector a middle-aged male boss has a choice of young blond bombshell (qualified) for their front desk secretary or a middle-aged Iraq war veteran (male) with a ponch on him (and maybe a missing leg).
Not everyone is going to hire by looks or age bias but it does happen a lot, civil service rules don't prevent that all together but the veteran (I picked him for a reason, could just as easily be her) will get a 10 point top-up on most lists because of their military service.
Most agencies send out only three candidates (top of the list) for the majority of jobs (there can be exceptions but this is mostly how it works).
Anyway, sorry for the thread drift, but again it isn't everyone at the CDC, it is the agency heads and what the administration orders them to do, that make the decisions for everyone working there.
Also, in my experience, on average yes any civil service in the US, UK or Ireland tends to have a good number of people who might have a hard time getting a private-sector job but not because they are not competent.
It is because as Dennis himself once observed here while on a contract job to a US Federal office, they tend to be older, fatter and have higher levels of physical (but not mental) disability.
Think about it, in the private sector a middle-aged male boss has a choice of young blond bombshell (qualified) for their front desk secretary or a middle-aged Iraq war veteran (male) with a ponch on him (and maybe a missing leg).
Not everyone is going to hire by looks or age bias but it does happen a lot, civil service rules don't prevent that all together but the veteran (I picked him for a reason, could just as easily be her) will get a 10 point top-up on most lists because of their military service.
Most agencies send out only three candidates (top of the list) for the majority of jobs (there can be exceptions but this is mostly how it works).
Anyway, sorry for the thread drift, but again it isn't everyone at the CDC, it is the agency heads and what the administration orders them to do, that make the decisions for everyone working there.
My husband also takes those drops (he's 70% blind in one eye and not even 40 years old) and we got three bottles last time too!
Am I seeing that Iran has a very high fatality rate?
If so....a lack of widespread diagnosis, lack of proper care or a genetic weakness?
Then why are (they ) as a unit acting mildly mentally retarded.. Either the CDC is completely incompetent or they're doing this on purpose... Only testing under 400 people at this point could be considered criminal.. Not informing the public of the dangers that are facing them is going to get people killed...
I've been in close contact with a local hospital My wife is a Nursing supervisor. My daughter is a ER trauma nurse and the hospital they work at has done NOTHING to prepare .
The Hospital has not heard a peep from the State or Federal about what's the plan is... In fact as far as we can conclude there is no plan at all..... They have 4 sets of full PPE TOTAL....and NO N95 masks in the hospital at all
bw
Fringe Ranger
Or they report only the dead and desperately ill.
bw
Fringe Ranger
The CDC as a unit is politically directed by the career politicians at the top. Within the CDC are many dedicated experts who are going absolutely batty at the indecision and incompetence of their bosses. I say that without knowing anything about the CDC, because that's how it is in ANY government office. I left state employment and left behind many expert and dedicated people who felt that way. I told them I was going to work where idiots could be fired.
Testing is counterproductive. It establishes definitively to the public that the virus is here and propagating. Being positive or negative does not change empiric therapy between this and influenza. fluids, antipyretics are the same for the first week to 10 days. The 20% or so that would progress to serious/critical requiring high flow oxygen or ultimately ventilation/ECMO will proceed towards that end regardless of testing and will be dealt with when they get there.
When you realize that this CANNOT be controlled the need to test becomes irrelevant. Not testing is simply a means to mitigate panic. People aren't afraid of the flu--they are COVID (or they will be, rather).
Hfcomms
EN66iq
Am I seeing that Iran has a very high fatality rate?
If so....a lack of widespread diagnosis, lack of proper care or a genetic weakness?
Or....a viral mutation and a mutation that is significantly upping the death rate? Hope not but mutations usually don't go the way in favoring the patient only the virus.
bw
Fringe Ranger
But OGM was referring to a prion. My understanding is that a prion is different from a virus. A prion (mad cow disease) is much more robust, staying intact and possibly infectious even after a trip through a hospital autoclave.
That's a true fact it does stop panic... But it's also going to get all the front line nurses and doctors killed or incapacitated .. I can tell your for a fact hospitals are NOT taking this seriously at all...
A few days ago, I made a WAG that it would run through the ME like wildfire.
The closet-crapping, goat rapers will have to reevaluate their catch phrase...."inshalla" (it is the will of allah)
The closet-crapping, goat rapers will have to reevaluate their catch phrase...."inshalla" (it is the will of allah)
Getting difficult to keep up.
You can't take a sip from a firehose.
YMMV but I have stopped even trying to keep up with made-up numbers from overseas, and essentially completely discount domestic numbers as well. They are simply not worth burning time on that could be spent more productively on other things.
Likewise WHO and CDC anything. Useless wastes of time.
Again, YMMV. If you just loooove to pick at scabs and cannot leave the official BS alone, go for it. But if you do, don't complain about how much of a problem it is to keep up
.
Discernment, folks. Discernment.
You can't take a sip from a firehose.
YMMV but I have stopped even trying to keep up with made-up numbers from overseas, and essentially completely discount domestic numbers as well. They are simply not worth burning time on that could be spent more productively on other things.
Likewise WHO and CDC anything. Useless wastes of time.
Again, YMMV. If you just loooove to pick at scabs and cannot leave the official BS alone, go for it. But if you do, don't complain about how much of a problem it is to keep up
.Discernment, folks. Discernment.
absolutely they are not. But the reality of it is that they do not have the equipment, training, or expertise to work consistently in an environment of aerosolized pathogens. The system is just not prepared for that. You can see that from the rates of infection in China, HK, Korea and even western countries like Italy. I believe of the first 8 patients they reported yesterday 5 were physicians.
cyberiot
Rimtas žmogus
Me, too, courtesy of Amazon. I run my IP gaskets through the dishwasher on the "sterilize" cycle, but I don't know if they come out Clinically Sterile or just Sterile Enough for Gummint Work. Guess you could soak them in a little bleach water, but it might degrade or infuse the silicone. Clorox Cauliflower, anyone?
coalcracker
Veteran Member
Am I seeing that Iran has a very high fatality rate?
If so....a lack of widespread diagnosis, lack of proper care or a genetic weakness?
Perhaps they are suffering from a mutation known as the Bibi-says-hello version?
Getting difficult to keep up.
You can't take a sip from a firehose.
YMMV but I have stopped even trying to keep up with made-up numbers from overseas, and essentially completely discount domestic numbers as well. They are simply not worth burning time on that could be spent more productively on other things.
Likewise WHO and CDC anything. Useless wastes of time.
Again, YMMV. If you just loooove to pick at scabs and cannot leave the official BS alone, go for it. But if you do, don't complain about how much of a problem it is to keep up
Discernment, folks. Discernment.
Selectivity is definitely required at this point, esp. with the big homework assignment re. the Canadian nurse home care thread from 2002 (am mostly through THAT, only to find myself five pages behind in THIS). South Korea, Italy, Iran and the last of the cruise ship sagas interest me most at this time. I'll catch up on the last two days of Chris Martensen videos, but no one else, probably. I don't care about China numbers, but the place is still worth watching as a fubar scenario. Our own officials might end up acting every bit as stupid here.
raven
TB Fanatic
There are five pillars of Islam - five mandatory things required for believers.
The fifth is the pilgrimage to Mecca. Required at least once during your lifetime.
So, if you get sick and believe you are going to die, then . . . time for a trip
To see that's the problem they're not trained to deal with this and absolutely have no PPE gear. So what are the front line medical people supposed to do sacrifice themselves and there families...
Must be nice at least they're doing something ours are doing nothing in my local AO