CORONA Main Coronavirus thread

rafter

Since 1999
Is this what got deleted from Twitter? This is long so I'm going to have to split it up....



Coronavirus Contains "HIV Insertions", Stoking Fears Over Artificially Created Bioweapon
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by Tyler Durden
Sat, 02/01/2020 - 10:49
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Update (1040ET): Science moves fast during an outbreak like this, and Dr. Feigl-Ding has issued a few tweets clarifying and correcting some of the information cited in the threads we included below.

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Though beforehand, he acknowledged that the paper' conclusions are "bat shit" wild and need to be scrutinized by the scientific community immediately.


23. Apparently I’m not alone thinking this paper’s conclusion is “bat-shit” wild (pardon the pun). We need to replicate this study now before the world goes mad. Let’s all pause and hold our breath please . https://t.co/Vrjcn9FCm7 https://t.co/wHJIcXZ4PA
— Dr. Eric Feigl-Ding (@DrEricDing) January 31, 2020
The situation is fluid. Who knows what researchers will discover next?
* * *
Over the past few days, the mainstream press has vigorously pushed back against a theory about the origins of the coronavirus that has now infected as many as 70,000+ people in Wuhan alone (depending on whom you believe). The theory is that China obtained the coronavirus via a Canadian research program, and started molding it into a bioweapon at the Institute of Virology in Wuhan. Politifact pointed the finger at Zero Hedge, in particular, though the story was widely shared across independent-leaning media.
The theory is that the virus, which was developed by infectious disease experts may have originated in the Wuhan-based lab of Dr. Peng Zhou, China's preeminent researcher of bat immune systems, specifically in how their immune systems adapt to the presence of viruses like coronavirus and other destructive viruses. Somehow, the virus escaped from the lab, and the Hunan fish market where the virus supposedly originated is merely a ruse.
Now, a respected epidemiologist who recently caught flack for claiming in a twitter threat that the virus appeared to be much more contagious than initially believed is pointing out irregularities in the virus's genome that suggests it might have been genetically engineered for the purposes of a weapon, and not just any weapon but the deadliest one of all.
In "Uncanny similarity of unique inserts in the 2019-nCoV spike protein to HIV-1 gp120 and Gag", Indian researchers are baffled by segments of the virus's RNA that have no relation to other coronaviruses like SARS, and instead appear to be closer to HIV. The virus even responds to treatment by HIV medications.

For those pressed for time, here are the key findings from the paper, which first focuses on the unique nature of 2019-nCoV, and then observe four amino acid sequences in the Wuhan Coronavirus which are homologous to amino acid sequences in HIV1:
Our phylogentic tree of full-length coronaviruses suggests that 2019-nCoV is closely related to SARS CoV [Fig1].

In addition, other recent studies have linked the 2019-nCoV to SARS CoV. We therefore compared the spike glycoprotein sequences of the 2019-nCoV to that of the SARS CoV (NCBI Accession number: AY390556.1). On careful examination of the sequence alignment we found that the 2019- nCoV spike glycoprotein contains 4 insertions [Fig.2]. To further investigate if these inserts are present in any other corona virus, we performed a multiple sequence alignment of the spike glycoprotein amino acid sequences of all available coronaviruses (n=55) [refer Table S.File1] in NCBI refseq (ncbi.nlm.nih.gov) this includes one sequence of 2019-nCoV[Fig.S1]. We found that these 4 insertions [inserts 1, 2, 3 and 4] are unique to 2019-nCoV and are not present in other coronaviruses analyzed. Another group from China had documented three insertions comparing fewer spike glycoprotein sequences of coronaviruses . Another group from China had documented three insertions comparing fewer spike glycoprotein sequences of coronaviruses (Zhou et al., 2020).
We then translated the aligned genome and found that these inserts are present in all Wuhan 2019-nCoV viruses except the 2019-nCoV virus of Bat as a host [Fig.S4]. Intrigued by the 4 highly conserved inserts unique to 2019-nCoV we wanted to understand their origin. For this purpose, we used the 2019-nCoV local alignment with each insert as query against all virus genomes and considered hits with 100% sequence coverage. Surprisingly, each of the four inserts aligned with short segments of the Human immunodeficiency Virus-1 (HIV-1) proteins. The amino acid positions of the inserts in 2019-nCoV and the corresponding residues in HIV-1 gp120 and HIV-1 Gag are shown in Table 1.

The first 3 inserts (insert 1,2 and 3) aligned to short segments of amino acid residues in HIV-1 gp120. The insert 4 aligned to HIV-1 Gag. The insert 1 (6 amino acid residues) and insert 2 (6 amino acid residues) in the spike glycoprotein of 2019-nCoV are 100% identical to the residues mapped to HIV-1 gp120. The insert 3 (12 amino acid residues) in 2019- nCoV maps to HIV-1 gp120 with gaps [see Table 1]. The insert 4 (8 amino acid residues) maps to HIV-1 Gag with gaps.
Why do the authors think the virus may be man-made? Because when looking at the above insertions which are not present in any of the closest coronavirus families, "it is quite unlikely for a virus to have acquired such unique insertions naturally in a short duration of time." Instead, they can be found in cell identification and membrane binding proteins located in the HIV genome.
Since the S protein of 2019-nCoV shares closest ancestry with SARS GZ02, the sequence coding for spike proteins of these two viruses were compared using MultiAlin software. We found four new insertions in the protein of 2019-nCoV- “GTNGTKR” (IS1), “HKNNKS” (IS2), “GDSSSG” (IS3) and “QTNSPRRA” (IS4) (Figure 2). To our surprise, these sequence insertions were not only absent in S protein of SARS but were also not observed in any other member of the Coronaviridae family (Supplementary figure). This is startling as it is quite unlikely for a virus to have acquired such unique insertions naturally in a short duration of time.
The insertions were observed to be present in all the genomic sequences of 2019-nCoV virus available from the recent clinical isolates. To know the source of these insertions in 2019-nCoV a local alignment was done with BLASTp using these insertions as query with all virus genome. Unexpectedly, all the insertions got aligned with Human immunodeficiency Virus-1 (HIV-1). Further analysis revealed that aligned sequences of HIV-1 with 2019-nCoV were derived from surface glycoprotein gp120 (amino acid sequence positions: 404-409, 462-467, 136-150) and from Gag protein (366-384 amino acid) (Table 1). Gag protein of HIV is involved in host membrane binding, packaging of the virus and for the formation of virus-like particles. Gp120 plays crucial role in recognizing the host cell by binding to the primary receptor CD4.This binding induces structural rearrangements in GP120, creating a high affinity binding site for a chemokine co-receptor like CXCR4 and/or CCR5.
And some visuals, which lead the paper authors to conclude that "this structural change might have also increased the range of host cells that 2019-nCoV can infect":
3D modelling of the protein structure displayed that these insertions are present at the binding site of 2019-nCoV. Due to the presence of gp120 motifs in 2019-nCoV spike glycoprotein at its binding domain, we propose that these motif insertions could have provided an enhanced affinity towards host cell receptors. Further, this structural change might have also increased the range of host cells that 2019-nCoV can infect. To the best of our knowledge, the function of these motifs is still not clear in HIV and need to be explored. The exchange of genetic material among the viruses is well known and such critical exchange highlights the risk and the need to investigate the relations between seemingly unrelated virus families.
A good recap of the findings was provided by Dr. Feigl-Ding, who started his explanatory thread by pointing out that the transmission rate outside China has surpassed the rate inside China.

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Dr. Eric Feigl-Ding@DrEricDing

https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1223283208025976832
Replying to @DrEricDing

2) Whoa- the rate of increase ***outside of China*** is steeper than inside of China or Wuhan! Figure 1A. From: @TheLancet “Nowcasting and forecasting the potential domestic and international spread of 2019-nCoV http://bit.ly/2GF6gZP ”)
View image on Twitter

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Dr. Eric Feigl-Ding@DrEricDing

· Jan 31, 2020

Replying to @DrEricDing
2) Whoa- the rate of increase ***outside of China*** is steeper than inside of China or Wuhan! Figure 1A. From: @TheLancet “Nowcasting and forecasting the potential domestic and international spread of 2019-nCoV http://bit.ly/2GF6gZP ”)
View image on Twitter

Dr. Eric Feigl-Ding@DrEricDing


3) “An estimated 75815 individuals have been infected in Wuhan” —> this is substantially higher than current reports or ~10k reports by China
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media. (75k estimate from above Lancet article)

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Dr. Eric Feigl-Ding@DrEricDing

https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1223284109398695937
Replying to @DrEricDing

4) ...”On the present trajectory, 2019-nCoV could be about to become a global epidemic in the absence of mitigation...substantial, even draconian measures that limit population mobility should be seriously and immediately considered in affected areas...”
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But the 'smoking gun' in this case are pieces of the virus's genetic code that Indian researchers, led by Prashant Pradhan at the Indian Institute of Technology, found may have been 'embedded' from HIV, which belongs to an entirely different family of viruses.
16. UPDATE ON GENOME : a very intriguing new paper investigating the aforementioned mystery middle segment w/ “S” spike protein: likely origin from HIV. “Uncanny similarity of unique inserts in the 2019-nCoV spike protein to HIV-1 gp120 and Gag” from Uncanny similarity of unique inserts in the 2019-nCoV spike protein to HIV-1 gp120 and Gag pic.twitter.com/WeVA948xin
— Dr. Eric Feigl-Ding (@DrEricDing) January 31, 2020
17. ...WHOA- the authors said the finding was “Unexpectedly” related to genes from HIV virus. Notably there were 4 gene insertions (see figure in above post #16). And so, which HIV gene proteins were found in the new #coronarvirus? Gag protein and Gp120- key HIV proteins... pic.twitter.com/epN66WcObj
— Dr. Eric Feigl-Ding (@DrEricDing) January 31, 2020
 

rafter

Since 1999
Part 2

18. Notably, in S , authors say for HIVinsertions: “Gag protein of HIV is involved in host membrane binding, packaging of the virus and for the formation of virus-like particles. Gp120 plays crucial role in recognizing the host cell by binding to the primary receptor CD4”
— Dr. Eric Feigl-Ding (@DrEricDing) January 31, 2020
19. Again, these are new express published findings and not peer reviewed yet. Let’s not draw conclusions yet. But evidence suggest that 2 different HIV genes are present in the #coronarvirus S gene region (that didn’t map to any other coronavirus, according to other studies).
— Dr. Eric Feigl-Ding (@DrEricDing) January 31, 2020
20. Further the authors add that “This indicates that these insertions have been preferably acquired by the 2019-nCoV, providing it with additional survival and infectivity advantage. Delving deeper we found that these insertions were similar to HIV-1.”
— Dr. Eric Feigl-Ding (@DrEricDing) January 31, 2020
21. Paper piles on: “these insertions are present at binding site of 2019-nCoV. Due to presence of gp120 motifs in 2019-nCoV spike glycoprotein at its binding domain, we propose that these motif insertions could have provided an enhanced affinity towards host cell receptors.”
— Dr. Eric Feigl-Ding (@DrEricDing) January 31, 2020
22. The authors dunked this final conclusion: “This uncanny similarity of novel inserts in the 2019- nCoV spike protein to HIV-1 gp120 and Gag is unlikely to be fortuitous”. Wow, they sure just went straight there! What a bold paper... I don’t know what to say ‍♂️ pic.twitter.com/KWcDdknMO4
— Dr. Eric Feigl-Ding (@DrEricDing) January 31, 2020
The punchline:

Dr. Eric Feigl-Ding@DrEricDing

https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1222010300859371522
Replying to @DrEricDing

9. BOTTOMLINE: 1) Seafood market not the source. 2) This RNA #coronavirus mutates really fast. 3)
1f9ec.png
has unusual middle segment never seen before in any coronavirus. 4) Not from recent mixing. 5) That mystery middle segment encodes protein responsible for entry into host cells.

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To be sure, Dr. Feigl-Ding insists that he's not trying to promote any 'conspiracies' about the virus being a bioweapon developed by the Chinese, although it is difficult to find a proper name for what appears to be an artificial, weaponized virus.

Dr. Eric Feigl-Ding@DrEricDing

https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1222012610163417089
Replying to @DrEricDing

10. TO BE CLEAR: I am absolutely not saying it’s bioengineering, nor am I supporting any conspiracy theories with no evidence. I’m simply saying scientists need to do more research + get more data. And finding the origin of the virus is an important research priority. Goodnight
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Another doctor chimed in with what he thought was a solid explanation for the virus's irregularities...

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Anand Ranganathan

@ARanganathan72

https://twitter.com/ARanganathan72/status/1223204029854994432
Replying to @fondoflinux

Sure. 2019-nCoV is a +ve strand RNA virus that enters human cell and first encodes its RNA-replicase to make -ve stranded RNA that serves a template to make +ve strand RNA that is then translated for daughter nCoV. Drugs Lopinavir and Remdesivir target its protease and replicase.

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...Until he realized something disturbing.
Oh my god. Indian scientists have just found HIV (AIDS) virus-like insertions in the 2019-nCov virus that are not found in any other coronavirus. They hint at the possibility that this Chinese virus was designed ["not fortuitous']. Scary if true. https://t.co/h6xPX1gYvj pic.twitter.com/kCpd1I00uE
— Anand Ranganathan (@ARanganathan72) January 31, 2020
"Scary"... but relax, it's just another ridiculous "conspiracy."
 

ktrapper

Veteran Member

20Gauge

TB Fanatic
Somehow, the virus escaped from the lab, and the Hunan fish market where the virus supposedly originated is merely a ruse.

I actually believe it did break loose in the "fish" market. As we are talking about China, some idiot who was to dispose of the bats, probably saw a chance to make some money and decided to sell the infected bats at that market.

The others who got infected without being there? Who knows, maybe they came into contact with the idiot at some point.
 

Freeholder

This too shall pass.
I'd probably replace the microwave as a prep. If either of you isn't feeling well (I have no idea what your daughter's capabilities are) it's a heck of a lot quicker/easier to heat up canned soup or stew in bowl in the microwave. Fewer dishes to wash, too.

We don't use ours for cooking, but it's handy for heating lunches or leftovers.

Summerthyme
Good point. I’m a little frazzled this morning. Daughter is on two new prescriptions, which are helping her (though it wouldn’t life-threatening if she couldn’t get them, thankfully). Her period started, she’s miserable, and most otc pain-relievers are contraindicated with one of her prescriptions. She can have Tylenol, I just found out, after doing some research, but we don’t keep Tylenol in the house, as it’s not recommended for people with auto-immune diseases. So I’m dealing with miserable girl, cranky internet, and trying to prepare lists for big shopping trip tomorrow.

Adding microwave to the list!

Kathleen

ETA: Daughter’s capabilities are extremely limited. When I hurt my back three and a half years ago, and could barely get to the bathroom, we thankfully had just stocked up on a bunch of prepared ‘trip’ food, expecting to be away from the house a lot over the next couple of weeks while we (I) helped with a ministry fair booth. I was able to talk her through bringing me packaged stuff to open, like protein bars. And I usually keep fresh fruit in a big bowl in the kitchen, and if I tell her to, she will get herself an apple. She can’t open bananas or peel oranges. So she is really limited. I have to take care of myself in order to take care of her, because she would probably die if I couldn’t care for her.
 
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Freeholder

This too shall pass.
I actually believe it did break loose in the "fish" market. As we are talking about China, some idiot who was to dispose of the bats, probably saw a chance to make some money and decided to sell the infected bats at that market.

The others who got infected without being there? Who knows, maybe they came into contact with the idiot at some point.
My thought is that maybe the official first case wasn’t the actual first case. We already know that some people are shedding the virus while asymptomatic.

Kathleen
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
If you can, get a microwave that also has a grill (special metal that can be used on either cycle) that way you can microwave or toast something in a hurry (you have a choice) you can also use the microwave for defrosting.

I don't cook in ours either, but it is very useful for reheating and sometimes defrosting.
 

20Gauge

TB Fanatic
My thought is that maybe the official first case wasn’t the actual first case. We already know that some people are shedding the virus while asymptomatic.

Kathleen
Could be. Though I try to never underestimate the stupidity and greed of people.
 

Jubilee on Earth

Veteran Member
So on a related note... I’m contemplating a list of preps of things that are typically made in China. I have no idea where to begin. Anything related to electronics, like charging cords, solar panels, battery chargers, etc. I imagine are primarily made in China. As are socks, underwear, clothes. What about nails and screws and ammo... are those typically made in the US?

Any ideas on what to start stocking up on for when those Asian import supply lines inevitably dry up?
 

20Gauge

TB Fanatic

Trivium Pursuit

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Instead, watch them panic - but I agree with you that this is likely how the average Chinese person is going to start viewing this situation - the government knows it and they are likely to try to do just about anything to avoid their fate.

By the way, I am not in any way an expert on Chinese history (one of my weaker areas of historical study) but I do know this, for generations (like several thousand years) China has had a history of peasant revolts that have succeeded.

That isn't all that common in world history but it has happened there more than once (it wasn't just Mao he was working on an ancient template).

on

Genghis Khan to Kubal Khan (his grandson) is one such example except they were not peasants who took over that time, but Mongol herders who broke down and conquered an empire; but whose grandchildren were in term pretty much "Chinese" in the way the dressed, ruled, worshiped etc; except for their genetics.

True about the peasant revolts over millenia. But they weren't facing modern, automatic weapons, tanks and aircraft. Speaking of which, don't know if they have one, but...In the event of a large revolt, the use of a neutron weapon would distress me, but not surprise me. The so-called leadership there already know they've lost the 'Mandate of the rest of the world', so they may think they have very little to lose by using it. Mao and Stalin killed their tens of millions and nothing came of it...
 

MountainBiker

Veteran Member
I'm just catching up this morning and reading people's comments about supply chain disruptions, which seem certain to occur.

And I started thinking back to all the threads and stories and worries about the infamous EMP and how it could/would blow out the big equipment and power generating systems - and that there are few replacements on hand in the US and it would take likely months (at least) to get them built and shipped from overseas. I dearly hope China isn't our only source, or we're in a world of hurt even in severe storms, tornadoes, hurricanes, aging equipment failures, etc.
Moving most of our manufacturing to 3rd world countries may have given us lower costs but it came at the price of making our society far less resilient. Shut down global commerce and our systems will start breaking down in short order.
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
True about the peasant revolts over millenia. But they weren't facing modern, automatic weapons, tanks and aircraft. Speaking of which, don't know if they have one, but...In the event of a large revolt, the use of a neutron weapon would distress me, but not surprise me. The so-called leadership there already know they've lost the 'Mandate of the rest of the world', so they may think they have very little to lose by using it. Mao and Stalin killed their tens of millions and nothing came of it...
Nightwolf suggested that it just depends on how desperate people actually get, he said pretty much that even a million man plus army can't really control desperately hungry and thirsty multiple millions of people if they panic and start running.

If this were located in just one place, like Wuhan, then yep they could neutron, nuke or Rod-of-God the area and be done with it but this is all over China.

When the food and water really run out, that's when the crazy is likely to start; that doesn't mean the regime won't try to stay in power (and might manage it too) but they may have to kill millions to do it.

Unlike the time of Mao and Stalin, Eyes in the Sky means they can try to cover this up but the whole world (or at least the intelligence world) will be watching.

Again, a lot depends on just how bad this gets and how long they have to try to hold people in place and can they feed them.
 

Pinecone

Has No Life - Lives on TB
It may be fortuitous that we have a businessman for a president right now. If anyone could help the US get manufacturing started here again, it's President Trump.

That said, many, many prayers for the Chinese people. It's the government that is bad, not all the people. And prayers for the rest of the world. This is a real wake up call for everyone, in every aspect of our lives, even if the virus doesn't take hold on our shores.
 

Seeker22

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Good point. I’m a little frazzled this morning. Daughter is on two new prescriptions, which are helping her (though it wouldn’t life-threatening if she couldn’t get them, thankfully). Her period started, she’s miserable, and most otc pain-relievers are contraindicated with one of her prescriptions. She can have Tylenol, I just found out, after doing some research, but we don’t keep Tylenol in the house, as it’s not recommended for people with auto-immune diseases. So I’m dealing with miserable girl, cranky internet, and trying to prepare lists for big shopping trip tomorrow.

Adding microwave to the list!

Kathleen

ETA: Daughter’s capabilities are extremely limited. When I hurt my back three and a half years ago, and could barely get to the bathroom, we thankfully had just stocked up on a bunch of prepared ‘trip’ food, expecting to be away from the house a lot over the next couple of weeks while we (I) helped with a ministry fair booth. I was able to talk her through bringing me packaged stuff to open, like protein bars. And I usually keep fresh fruit in a big bowl in the kitchen, and if I tell her to, she will get herself an apple. She can’t open bananas or peel oranges. So she is really limited. I have to take care of myself in order to take care of her, because she would probably die if I couldn’t care for her.

When I had those ugly painful periods (sorry guys) my microslave was a godsend. I bought a small buckwheat pillow at a craft fair. I would put it in the microwave until it was very warm; almost hot to the touch. And lay down on my back with that thing on my belly and a couple of huge Geology texts for weight. The combination of warmth and weight actually worked.

You can use beans, rice, pretty much anything that will hold heat. Make the bag to hold the beans with an insulating fabric and cover that with a washable cotton cover.

Mine were so bad Tylenol 800 with codeine didn't work. This was relief for awhile.

The other thing my microslave is good for is to pop food out of canning jars and have supper on the table in less than five minutes. Done and done.
 

Trivium Pursuit

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Nightwolf suggested that it just depends on how desperate people actually get, he said pretty much that even a million man plus army can't really control desperately hungry and thirsty multiple millions of people if they panic and start running.

If this were located in just one place, like Wuhan, then yep they could neutron, nuke or Rod-of-God the area and be done with it but this is all over China.

When the food and water really run out, that's when the crazy is likely to start; that doesn't mean the regime won't try to stay in power (and might manage it too) but they may have to kill millions to do it.

Unlike the time of Mao and Stalin, Eyes in the Sky means they can try to cover this up but the whole world (or at least the intelligence world) will be watching.

Again, a lot depends on just how bad this gets and how long they have to try to hold people in place and can they feed them.
Sounds like we're talking 2 kinds of revolts here. First one being people running away, from work, quarantine or both. Agreed, that can't be controlled. But the other kind is what I thought you were referring to, the attempt to overthrow the State. IIRC, the PLA swears allegiance to the CCP, NOT China as a nation... As to Eyes In the Sky, that may be the only thing restraining them.
 
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Chapulin

Veteran Member
Consider, however, an earlier post reporting that HAVING this virus does NOT confer "immunity" (as is generally true with viruses, since they mutate so rapidly).

The post said that you can recover from nCoV--then get it AGAIN---and AGAIN---

I have had pneumonia 4 times (there's something in my body genetics that apparently makes me vulnerable to it---1st time I was only in my 20's)--and EACH time left some lung scarring---and the first two times were relatively light cases.

This is a MAJOR pneumonia---apparently accompanied by cytokine storm in the later stages.

IF one survives it, inevitably one will be LEFT with lung SCARRING---and if you can get it again and again --

How can this thing "find" a "burnout" point?
If a virus kills its patient before it can spread the virus will also die quickly. The problem is a virus that lets its patient walk around for awhile especially if the virus can mutate in that time period.
 

Shooter

Veteran Member
as a strange quirk of
fate, Today on the Comet, TV channel. the 1964 movie, Last Man On Earth, at 1 pm central, this is the one they remade into The Omega man with Charlton Heston, then remade again into I Am Legend with Will Smith. all of them are pretty good movies
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
Sounds like we're talking 2 kinds of revolts here. First one being people running away, from work, quarantine or both. Agreed, that can't be controlled. But the other kind is what I thought you were referring to, the attempt to overthrow the State. IIRC, the PRC swears allegiance to the CCP, NOT China as a nation... As to Eyes In the Sky, that may be the only thing restraining them.
We were kind of talking about one leading potentially to the other (Nightwolf and I) but I see the problem in organizing A People's Takeover (or whatever version) and having it work in this day and age.

I guess we will see and a lot depends on just how bad things get (and what the leaders actually do).
 

20Gauge

TB Fanatic
It may be fortuitous that we have a businessman for a president right now. If anyone could help the US get manufacturing started here again, it's President Trump.

That said, many, many prayers for the Chinese people. It's the government that is bad, not all the people. And prayers for the rest of the world. This is a real wake up call for everyone, in every aspect of our lives, even if the virus doesn't take hold on our shores.

Timing is everything!
 
So on a related note... I’m contemplating a list of preps of things that are typically made in China. I have no idea where to begin. Anything related to electronics, like charging cords, solar panels, battery chargers, etc. I imagine are primarily made in China. As are socks, underwear, clothes. What about nails and screws and ammo... are those typically made in the US?

Any ideas on what to start stocking up on for when those Asian import supply lines inevitably dry up?
When to start stocking up?
Now.
Just about everything nowadays is labeled as to country of origin.
 

20Gauge

TB Fanatic
When to start stocking up?
Now.
Just about everything nowadays is labeled as to country of origin.
Yes, now is a good time to verify you have the basics covered. I would guess a 30 days buffer would be the minimum. Anything less would be a problem. We plan on going over everything and filling gaps, (there is always some gap) before the weekend is over.

The good news is now have a buffer in cat food. Didn't have that last year. We can almost go a month without refill.
 

Matt

Veteran Member
When to start stocking up?
Now.
Just about everything nowadays is labeled as to country of origin.

Also factor price into the decision....even if an item is made in the USA, if a large portion of the competition is unobtainable Chinese, the cost will skyrocket as supply and demand curves go crazy. More money chasing fewer goods. Very good odds that that items purchased today with usurous credit cards will prove to have been a bargain come a month from now.
 
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