I just came across this and figured I share it.... 
Veg WW2 Ill state recommendation for a V-Garden for a Family of Five.
- Thread starter Housecarl
- Start date
No potatoes? Bush beans but no dry beans? It looks like a mostly "fresh eating" garden to supplement staples from the grocery. Which isn't a bad thing! But that's a lot of lettuce!
Summerthyme
Summerthyme
Since it came from a state agency and not the US Dept. of Agriculture I'm guessing that the recommended crop list was based on what grew best in most of Illinois.
China Connection
TB Fanatic
Beans and some of the greens offer protein. Not much else does...
I would hate to try to live on the stuff from that list.
You need about 6 medium sized potatoes a day to stay alive plus some good oil.
I would hate to try to live on the stuff from that list.
You need about 6 medium sized potatoes a day to stay alive plus some good oil.
dioptase
Veteran Member
In the cool weather I grow more lettuce than anything else, though I also have arugula, chives, and bunching onions. (This fall I will be adding beets and snow peas.)
A lot of that stuff I wouldn't grow - turnips, parsnips, rutabagas, collards, endive. I discovered that we don't use the beans that we grow (unless asparagus beans which have a LONG season but are tastier than regular beans), so nix that.
The thing about IL weather is that you may get one crop of quickly maturing potatoes if that (this is at a guess, but from what I know about the weather in that state; it can get quite hot in the summer). I'd still give it a try, though you'd have to have a good root cellar or other way of preserving the potatoes (in that climate with no a/c).
I'm surprised at the lack of melons, peppers, beets, peas, and winter squash. And while radishes are fine for a garnish or mixed in salads, I'm surprised at the (sidebar cartoon) emphasis on planting them. Corn is probably not mentioned because of the space needed (planted in blocks), although that is (or was) a staple crop for that state.
Interesting reading though and food for thought, so thanks for sharing that!
A lot of that stuff I wouldn't grow - turnips, parsnips, rutabagas, collards, endive. I discovered that we don't use the beans that we grow (unless asparagus beans which have a LONG season but are tastier than regular beans), so nix that.
The thing about IL weather is that you may get one crop of quickly maturing potatoes if that (this is at a guess, but from what I know about the weather in that state; it can get quite hot in the summer). I'd still give it a try, though you'd have to have a good root cellar or other way of preserving the potatoes (in that climate with no a/c).
I'm surprised at the lack of melons, peppers, beets, peas, and winter squash. And while radishes are fine for a garnish or mixed in salads, I'm surprised at the (sidebar cartoon) emphasis on planting them. Corn is probably not mentioned because of the space needed (planted in blocks), although that is (or was) a staple crop for that state.
Interesting reading though and food for thought, so thanks for sharing that!
China Connection
TB Fanatic
When you are just living off your garden bed you need to get enough protein. The rest is fairly simple.
In China the poor keep a few chickens for eggs. That is where they get their protein.
Then they grow greens of all different kinds.
They normally buy in rice for carbohydrates.
With what is coming I would not want to be holding out for months to eat a crop. To easy to have stolen wile you are asleep. The same goes for chickens.
...................................................................................................................................
Protein Needs Although protein requirements are higher for endurance training than a sedentary lifestyle, rarely is SOF personnel lacking in protein. Most diets provide far more than what is needed. Maintaining a positive energy balance is more important than increasing protein intake for both endurance and resistance exercise training. Importantly, if protein intake is high, and eaten at the expense of CHO, glycogen stores may be reduced and performance compromised.
Protein requirements were calculated in Chapter 3 so refer to that chapter for more information. However, in general: Protein intakes should range from 0.6–0.9 grams per lb body weight/day. A number of factors will determine the response of the body to the ingestion of protein. These include: • Composition of the ingested protein. • Metabolic state: exercise or rest. • Presence of other nutrients. • Timing of ingestion relative to exercise. • Interactions among all the factors above. It is well accepted that the composition of the ingested protein is more important than the quantity. For example, amino acids (protein) from animal proteins (e.g., milk) may be superior to plant proteins. After resistance exercise skeletal muscles take up amino acids from milk proteins (such as whey and casein) faster than from soy protein. Also, during the resting state, casein protein appears to produce a stronger “anabolic” environment than whey protein. This is because the amino acids from casein are absorbed more slowly so that blood levels are elevated over a long period of time.
After resistance exercise, muscles take up similar amounts of amino acids from casein and whey. Ingesting other energy sources in combination with protein also affects how rapidly the whole body and skeletal muscles take up amino acids. At rest, the body seems to retain more amino acids when the protein is con- 71 sumed with CHO. Also, CHO ingestion improves the use of amino acids when they are ingested together after resistance exercise. Importantly, a small amount of the essential amino acids together is more effective than large amounts of protein. The timing of protein ingestion is critical. Finally, it is unreasonable to give broad recommendations for a particular amount of protein for SOF given all the important regulating and interacting factors. However, more is not better. Click to calculate grams needed of CHO, protein, and fat based on energy needs.
In China the poor keep a few chickens for eggs. That is where they get their protein.
Then they grow greens of all different kinds.
They normally buy in rice for carbohydrates.
With what is coming I would not want to be holding out for months to eat a crop. To easy to have stolen wile you are asleep. The same goes for chickens.
...................................................................................................................................
Protein Needs Although protein requirements are higher for endurance training than a sedentary lifestyle, rarely is SOF personnel lacking in protein. Most diets provide far more than what is needed. Maintaining a positive energy balance is more important than increasing protein intake for both endurance and resistance exercise training. Importantly, if protein intake is high, and eaten at the expense of CHO, glycogen stores may be reduced and performance compromised.
Protein requirements were calculated in Chapter 3 so refer to that chapter for more information. However, in general: Protein intakes should range from 0.6–0.9 grams per lb body weight/day. A number of factors will determine the response of the body to the ingestion of protein. These include: • Composition of the ingested protein. • Metabolic state: exercise or rest. • Presence of other nutrients. • Timing of ingestion relative to exercise. • Interactions among all the factors above. It is well accepted that the composition of the ingested protein is more important than the quantity. For example, amino acids (protein) from animal proteins (e.g., milk) may be superior to plant proteins. After resistance exercise skeletal muscles take up amino acids from milk proteins (such as whey and casein) faster than from soy protein. Also, during the resting state, casein protein appears to produce a stronger “anabolic” environment than whey protein. This is because the amino acids from casein are absorbed more slowly so that blood levels are elevated over a long period of time.
After resistance exercise, muscles take up similar amounts of amino acids from casein and whey. Ingesting other energy sources in combination with protein also affects how rapidly the whole body and skeletal muscles take up amino acids. At rest, the body seems to retain more amino acids when the protein is con- 71 sumed with CHO. Also, CHO ingestion improves the use of amino acids when they are ingested together after resistance exercise. Importantly, a small amount of the essential amino acids together is more effective than large amounts of protein. The timing of protein ingestion is critical. Finally, it is unreasonable to give broad recommendations for a particular amount of protein for SOF given all the important regulating and interacting factors. However, more is not better. Click to calculate grams needed of CHO, protein, and fat based on energy needs.
Bps1691
Veteran Member
I'm from the Ill-State and if you have a basement you can store potatoes in it or you can build a root cellar out of a lot of things...
Turn a Dead Chest Freezer Into a Miniature Root Cellar
Turn a Dead Chest Freezer Into a Miniature Root Cellar
If you're a gardener you know that storing your home-grown veggies and fruits is the step that lets you enjoy your produce even in Winter. Freezing is
lifehacker.com
When I did the big garden, I usually planted Irish Cobbler a 70 day potato twice per year. The first planting went in around May 20 (depending on actual last frost date) and the were ready in early August. The second planting (different area of garden) went in the ground in early July and finished up in early- mid September.
mourningdove
Pura Vida in my garden
I like that idea. I live in Central Texas where it can pop in an 80 degree day in January, just because. It is also fairly humid here. Do you think this would work in my area?I'm from the Ill-State and if you have a basement you can store potatoes in it or you can build a root cellar out of a lot of things...
Turn a Dead Chest Freezer Into a Miniature Root Cellar
Turn a Dead Chest Freezer Into a Miniature Root Cellar
If you're a gardener you know that storing your home-grown veggies and fruits is the step that lets you enjoy your produce even in Winter. Freezing is
When I did the big garden, I usually planted Irish Cobbler a 70 day potato twice per year. The first planting went in around May 20 (depending on actual last frost date) and the were ready in early August. The second planting (different area of garden) went in the ground in early July and finished up in early- mid September.
Its not a survival garden. It is for fresh eating. Remember that at its best the Victory Garden program only provided 40% of Americans fresh vegetable consumption. In one of my grandfathers letters home he noted the gardens in Scotland and England and stated that they take their gardens more seriously over there.
Bps1691
Veteran Member
Not sure. I've always heard it was tuff to have a root cellar in Texas and in the south generally.
Did quick search and found this:
Root cellar in Texas?
Root cellar in Texas?
www.homesteadingtoday.com
Bps1691
Veteran Member
Also have to remember that the rural folks had already been growing large gardens way before wwII.
In my family tree they all grew garden for both fresh eating and to store. It was a family tribe type of thing even into my teenage years where each part of the tribe (grand parents, uncles aunts, etc.) all grew garden for fresh veggies and different ones grew specialty stuff based on the ground they had. One set of grand parents raised a few hogs and we family butchered. Others had fruit trees, some had grapes and berries. Most had chickens and one uncle had rabbits. The entire tribe would split the work and participate in the growing, harvesting and preparing for winter storage.
It was way above the standard victory garden concept and had been in the family for way longer than before wwii.
It was my understanding that the Victory Garden program was more focused at those in cities and towns who traditionally hadn't grown garden to get them a source for fresh veggies.
Freeholder
This too shall pass.
25' X 50' isn't enough garden to produce all the food for a family of five; fresh eating in summer and fall with a few items to store is all you'll get out of that. John Jeavons -- with good garden soil and intensive gardening practices -- thought that (in his southern Cal. climate) you could grow enough food for one person for a year in about 2,000 s.f. of growing space. That means, don't count the paths between the beds, just the beds where you are actually growing stuff. So for five people you would need at least 10,000 s.f. or about a quarter of an acre, and that's in double-dug beds, well-fertilized, an experienced gardener not working in a new location. In my opinion, when your garden gets to a certain point it's best to go back to row gardening (increase the amount of land needed by three or four times) because beds mostly need to be hand-weeded. If you are growing in rows, you can weed and cultivate between rows with tools, either hand or machine, more easily. On the other hand, if you have a good back or lots of help, stick with the beds.
Another potential advantage of growing in rows if you have enough space is that if you have a dry growing season and can't irrigate for whatever reason, your plants will survive better if they have more space to draw moisture from in the ground. (See Steve Solomon's book, Gardening Without Irrigation -- should be available free on-line.)
There are lots of pros and cons for both beds and row gardens; just be aware of that and weigh them before making your decision.
Malabar spinach and New Zealand spinach are not the same thing -- not even in the same plant families. You can grow both in hot weather, though.
Kathleen
Another potential advantage of growing in rows if you have enough space is that if you have a dry growing season and can't irrigate for whatever reason, your plants will survive better if they have more space to draw moisture from in the ground. (See Steve Solomon's book, Gardening Without Irrigation -- should be available free on-line.)
There are lots of pros and cons for both beds and row gardens; just be aware of that and weigh them before making your decision.
Malabar spinach and New Zealand spinach are not the same thing -- not even in the same plant families. You can grow both in hot weather, though.
Kathleen
EYW
Veteran Member
That's at least 70-75 years old. People had different eating habits to some extent. It looks like fresh eating or supplemental food, rather than a survival garden. One thing about all the radishes. I believe they were eaten more back in those days, a quick crop to grow. Also if you pick up an old cookbook from that time period you may find recipes for cooked radishes or pickled radishes. I have a cookbook from the early 60s that has a recipe for creamed radishes which is basically slice, boil (I steamed), and then dump them into a white sauce, which they turned the white sauce pink, LOL. Depending on your tastes, you could change up the white sauce and have a good side dish. Also if you boil the radishes, it takes out some of the bite. Fry some up in a stir fry. I have also heard of throwing the radish tops into a pot of greens. Never did it, never tasted them cooked like that, but it might be worth a try. So, don't overlook the lowly, quick-growing radish.
China Connection
TB Fanatic
I am seeing huge differences in evaporation and what I can grow depending on using shade cloth or not.
bracketquant
Veteran Member
Anyone interested in joining a seed swap? I've hosted one for over a decade that mostly concentrates on tomatoes. But, there will be peppers, beans (for you survivalists), summer and winter squash, and several other things.
I have a bean collection of somewhere around 200 varieties (tomatoes over a thousand), and the bean collection is almost at the point of getting old.
I have a bean collection of somewhere around 200 varieties (tomatoes over a thousand), and the bean collection is almost at the point of getting old.
AlaskaSue
North to the Future
I'd totally be interested. I'm harvesting seeds from several things grown here this year - though I doubt I'll get to collect my broccoli seeds. Radish and mustard seeds are very labor intensive - but radish is great for sprouts mid-winter! I even got a few potato berries this year for the first time; saving them to see what I can do next year.
Beans would be about the only thing on your list I can do; tomatoes and peppers are never going to be much up here without a greenhouse and my squash efforts have been dismal so far
jward
passin' thru
Here are a few links from my database that may be of use:
www.familyfoodgarden.com
htt.j9s.dev
www.wellfedhomestead.com
derbauernhofsite.wordpress.com
www.offthegridnews.com
Victory Garden: Leader's Handbook : United States. Department of Agriculture : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
This handbook offers some suggestions to those who are leading the great drive for Victory Gardens, and points out certain things to watch out for -- common...
archive.org
Victory Gardening Then & Now | Family Food Garden
History and victory garden posters, designs and plans.Tips for growing a lot of food for a modern victory garden. Victory gardening war gardens were needed
www.familyfoodgarden.com
Vegetable Crop Yields, Plants per Person, and Crop Spacing
Vegetable crop yields and the number of vegetable plants to grow for each person in your household will help you estimate the space needed for a home
htt.j9s.dev
How much should you plant in your garden to provide a year’s worth of food? – The Well Fed Homestead
www.wellfedhomestead.com
Gardening for a Family of 5
To me, one of my biggest planning challenges has been calculating the quantity of plants that our family needs for a years worth of food. Here, at our house, we have such a small space, that I have…
derbauernhofsite.wordpress.com
Gardening to Feed Your Family Year-Round | Best Pick Reports
In this article, we’ll cover all the basics you need to know to feed your family year-round with vegetables grown in your own garden.
www.bestpickreports.com
How Much Should You Grow To Feed Your Family An Entire YEAR? Here's The Answer
How much food does your family eat in a year? The answer may surprise you, unless you’ve been planning a garden to feed them. Deciding how much to plant can make the difference between a lean year and a fat one. Careful planning and recordkeeping are essential if you want to live off your land. ...
jward
passin' thru
I think that's a fabulous idea. Please let us know if you set one up.
jward
passin' thru
Not only do the radishes fry up rather nicely, and grow uber quick, some cultivars (daikon iirc) do a fair job of tilling the soil and providing utility as a cover crop. I'm all bout the lazy lol.
And yeah, they ate totally differently- I'm amazed when I look at menus even from the 20s n thirties.
And yeah, they ate totally differently- I'm amazed when I look at menus even from the 20s n thirties.
jward
passin' thru
just another list- ymwv of course. Be sure to have your and your families' nutritional needs, and the nutrition profiles of the food stuffs at hand as you begin sorting out subsistence level needs... and don't forget the medicinals, herbs, livestock and pet needs, either.. . ..
How much to plant to feed a family for a year?
Want to know how much to plant per person in your family? Here are some basic guidelines we at Many Hands Farm have put together for ourselves and to share with you all! These are on the high side with enough to freeze/dry/can/store to get you through the year
Artichokes- 1-4 plants per person
Asparagus- 10-15 plants per person
Beans, Bush- 15-20 plants per person
Beans, Lima- 10-20 plants per person
Beans, Pole- 10-20 plants per person -2-4 poles of beans per person (each pole with the four strongest seedlings growing)
Beets- 40 plants per person
Blackberries- 100-200 lbs per family
Blueberries- 10-15 plants per family (plants can produce up to 20 lbs at full maturity per bush)
Broccoli- 5-10 plants per person
Brussels Sprouts- 2-8 plants per person
Cabbage- 3-10 plants per person
Carrots- about 100 seeds per person (1/4 oz would be plenty for a family of six)
Cauliflower- 3-5 plants per person
Celeriac- 1-5 plants per person
Celery- 3-8 plants per person
Corn- 12-40 plants per person
Cucumbers- 5-10 plants per person
Eggplant- 3-6 plants per family
Garlic- 20-25 per person
Honeyberries/ Haskap Berries- 10-15 plants per family (each bush can 7-12 lbs at full production)
Kale- 5’ row per person
Lettuce- 10-12 plants per person
Head Lettuce (5-7 plants) plant continuously
Leaf Lettuce (8-10 feet) plant continuously
Melons – 3-6 plants per person
Onions- 30-60 plants per person
Peas- 120 plants per person
Bell Peppers- 5-6 plants per person
Potatoes- 10-30 plants per person
Pumpkins- 1 plant per person
Rhubarb- 2-3 crowns per person
Seabuckthorn- 4 bushes per family (males don’t produce) produces 20-30 lbs at full maturity
Spinach-10-20 plants per person Strawberries- 60 -100 plants (at least 15 per person)
Summer Squash-2-4 plants per person
Winter Squash- 2 plants per person
Sweet Potatoes- approx 5 plants per person
Tomatoes large sized- 5-8 plants per person
Plus if you are wanting to get adventerous
1 Jersey Cow and calf
18 laying chickens
25-40 broiler meat birds
2 piglets
2 Beehives
By curobins|April 15th, 2015|Categories: Uncategorized|1 Comment
How much to plant to feed a family for a year?
Want to know how much to plant per person in your family? Here are some basic guidelines we at Many Hands Farm have put together for ourselves and to share with you all! These are on the high side with enough to freeze/dry/can/store to get you through the year
Artichokes- 1-4 plants per person
Asparagus- 10-15 plants per person
Beans, Bush- 15-20 plants per person
Beans, Lima- 10-20 plants per person
Beans, Pole- 10-20 plants per person -2-4 poles of beans per person (each pole with the four strongest seedlings growing)
Beets- 40 plants per person
Blackberries- 100-200 lbs per family
Blueberries- 10-15 plants per family (plants can produce up to 20 lbs at full maturity per bush)
Broccoli- 5-10 plants per person
Brussels Sprouts- 2-8 plants per person
Cabbage- 3-10 plants per person
Carrots- about 100 seeds per person (1/4 oz would be plenty for a family of six)
Cauliflower- 3-5 plants per person
Celeriac- 1-5 plants per person
Celery- 3-8 plants per person
Corn- 12-40 plants per person
Cucumbers- 5-10 plants per person
Eggplant- 3-6 plants per family
Garlic- 20-25 per person
Honeyberries/ Haskap Berries- 10-15 plants per family (each bush can 7-12 lbs at full production)
Kale- 5’ row per person
Lettuce- 10-12 plants per person
Head Lettuce (5-7 plants) plant continuously
Leaf Lettuce (8-10 feet) plant continuously
Melons – 3-6 plants per person
Onions- 30-60 plants per person
Peas- 120 plants per person
Bell Peppers- 5-6 plants per person
Potatoes- 10-30 plants per person
Pumpkins- 1 plant per person
Rhubarb- 2-3 crowns per person
Seabuckthorn- 4 bushes per family (males don’t produce) produces 20-30 lbs at full maturity
Spinach-10-20 plants per person Strawberries- 60 -100 plants (at least 15 per person)
Summer Squash-2-4 plants per person
Winter Squash- 2 plants per person
Sweet Potatoes- approx 5 plants per person
Tomatoes large sized- 5-8 plants per person
Plus if you are wanting to get adventerous
1 Jersey Cow and calf
18 laying chickens
25-40 broiler meat birds
2 piglets
2 Beehives
By curobins|April 15th, 2015|Categories: Uncategorized|1 Comment
How much to plant to feed a family for a year? – Many Hands Farm
manyhandsfarm.com
China Connection
TB Fanatic
Very few people have a large enough area to follow the about.
How does one feed 18 layer chickens that alone 25-40 broiler meat birds as well?.
Good advice for the good times but not for what is ahead. Good for the last World War but people are different now.
How does one feed 18 layer chickens that alone 25-40 broiler meat birds as well?.
Good advice for the good times but not for what is ahead. Good for the last World War but people are different now.
bracketquant
Veteran Member
The seed swap that I host can be found at tomatojunction.com.
Click on the General Discussion forum.
Then the MMMM swap forum.
The MMMM requirements topic explains the minimum needed to participate.
I tell all participants that this is your swap, I'm just the host. It's whatever each participant wants the swap to be, for them.
Any questions, just ask.
I'll likely be offline for a few days, organizing the bean collection, and prepping the garden for winter.
Click on the General Discussion forum.
Then the MMMM swap forum.
The MMMM requirements topic explains the minimum needed to participate.
I tell all participants that this is your swap, I'm just the host. It's whatever each participant wants the swap to be, for them.
Any questions, just ask.
I'll likely be offline for a few days, organizing the bean collection, and prepping the garden for winter.
Considering that a chicken will on average eat 1.5 lbs of chicken feed a week/78 lbs a year (only feed, not the chicken foraging for bugs and such on its own) that starts to add up rather fast. When I was a kid we had an eighth of an acre fenced off, and halved again, one side we'd run the chickens and on the other we'd plant our garden.
jward
passin' thru
True regarding lack of space. When I had a double lot in the city, and a 6 car garage eating into that space, I had plans to take the forage gardens to the roof of the buildings in order to help meet the shortfall. DH put his foot down at preinstalling the systems, but we had the supplies n schematics on hand. (Not for 50 birds) Many also have indoor fodder growing systems to creatively meet the challenge, along with plans to remote chicken tractor, remote guerrilla gardening, synergistic rabbit dropping/grub growing systems etc.
Tis true we're not nearly the people we once were, but don't tell momma her babies or man is gonna go w/o and not expect to see an exponential growth spurt... well, this momma, anyway. There are young families all across this country that are pursuing self sufficiency, or greater measures of it, on small plots everywhere. In Europe as well. Quite a passion again, actually, this desire to return to the land.
Everyone cannot do everything, but something is better than nothing, and I'm continually amazed at just how much can, and is, being done.