OT/MISC Wooden Shigir idol found to be over twice as old as Egyptian pyramids

Melodi

Disaster Cat
Another really interesting bit of information coming out from the rush to take a look at older finds sitting in museums and taking another look at them with the most cutting edge of technology - this is one of the oldest wooden objects ever found, it isn't the oldest but finding wood is very rare; knowing it is the same age as Gobekli Tepi but in Europe is really interesting. The marks also suggest (to me) that my old Professor's theory that there may have been some system of writing or proto-writing that was lost during the European Mesolithic (because he had seen it on bone objects he excavated or examined) may need another look with a super-computer).

Wooden Shigir idol found to be over twice as old as Egyptian pyramids
April 27, 2018 by Bob Yirka, Phys.org report
1-woodenshigir.jpg


Wooden Shigir Idol found to be over twice as old as Egyptian pyramids
Credit: Antiquity (2018). DOI: 10.15184/aqy.2018.48
A team of researchers in Germany has found evidence suggesting that the famous wooden Shirgir Idol is actually 11,500 years old. The team has documented their efforts and findings in a paper published on the Cambridge University Press site Antiquity.


The Shigir Idol was discovered in an ancient peat bog by miners in Russia back in 1890. Early analysis showed that it was made entirely of larch wood and was constructed from several chunks. It remained preserved for thousands of years because of antimicrobial properties found in the peat. The idol was also covered extensively with markings, some of which depicted tiny human faces. To this day, no one knows what most of the markings depict. It was also noted that some of the original pieces of the idol had been lost—it is believed that it originally stood approximately five meters tall. In 1997, a team in Russia used radiocarbon dating to estimate the age of the icon and found it to be approximately 9,500 years old.

Experts have studied the carvings on the idol over the years, and many have suggested they likely represent a form of art, possibly linked with spiritual or religious activities.

Recently, the team in Germany expressed interest it taking a closer look at the idol, which is normally housed in the Sverdlovsk Regional Museum, in Russia.
Arrangements were made for the idol to be shipped to Germany, where it was studied, along with other original material found in the peat bog. Using accelerator mass spectrometry, the team found the true age of the idol to be approximately 11,500 years old, placing its creation at around the time of the end of the Ice Age. That age also makes it the oldest known wood monumental sculpture ever found and more than twice the age of the Egyptian pyramids. The researchers report that they also found another face carved into the wood, bringing the total to eight. Their findings suggest that researchers looking to better understand very early human behavior perhaps need to widen their search beyond the Fertile Crescent.

woodenshigir.jpg

Wooden Shigir Idol found to be over twice as old as Egyptian pyramids
Credit: Public Domain


More information: Mikhail Zhilin et al. Early art in the Urals: new research on the wooden sculpture from Shigir, Antiquity (2018). DOI: 10.15184/aqy.2018.48

Abstract
The carved wooden object uncovered from the Shigir peat bog in the Sverdlovsk region towards the end of the nineteenth century remains one of the oldest, known examples of monumental anthropomorphic sculpture from anywhere in the world.

Recent application of new analytical techniques has led to the discovery of new imagery on its surface, and has pushed the date of the piece back to the earliest Holocene. The results of these recent analyses are placed here in the context of local and extra-local traditions of comparable prehistoric art. This discussion highlights the unique nature of the find and its significance for appreciating the complex symbolic world of Early Holocene hunter-gatherers.
Journal reference: Antiquity



Read more at: https://phys.org/news/2018-04-wooden-shigir-idol-egyptian-pyramids.html#jCp
 

Sacajawea

Has No Life - Lives on TB
I wonder... just occurs to my visual "sense of knowing"...

if the linear markings are a counting tally? Like a calendar, or temperature (maybe sunny days?) record? Could be years, too... of the artist's life span? Or possibly successful hunts?
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
Tally sticks are quite common (28 days is really common, for several obvious reasons from full moons for hunting to perhaps a lady recording her cycles); my professor started to wonder if some of the "tally sticks" were also using a form of writing when in the 1970's he started noticing that a lot of bones had the same markings and they were not the usual straight lines, and he was finding them all over Mesolithic Europe and some in the late Paleolithic as well.

Now, this was in the 1970's and there's been a lot of work done since then, and new dates for older objects are also upsetting apple carts from early pre-history to the Norse and Migration periods.

My professor's hypothesis (it wasn't even really a theory, not enough evidence) was that because life was really much more stable for thousands of years during the European Paleolithic (Ice Age) than is usually realized; there was plenty of time for people to come up with things like systems of writing and other inventions that might have been LOST, during the chaos of the Mesolethic when the ice melts, the big game animals start to go away (or migrate North) and people have to find whole new ways to support themselves.

This large wood statue is right from the middle of that "in-between" period; we already know that weaving was invented during the actual stone age (28,000 years ago) and some forms of pottery as well (found at the same site); so it isn't impossible that some sort of writing or symbol system was being used then as well.

Or, we are dealing with a simpler but still symbolic system of things like tally sticks, moon phases. "how many Winters" etc...

That is where the Super Computer might come in handy, feed in every known sign from every bone, wooden or stone object from the late Stone Age to the early farming period in Europe and see if it finds anything.
 

Publius

TB Fanatic
It dos not surprise me that it's thought to be older than anything Egyptian.
When it comes to not finding old writings around europe it seems we have the church of Rome to blame as they had their priest's walking about the country side looking for old writing's on natural rock walls and anywhere else it could be found and send people to scrub-destroy it thinking it was some pagan religion.
 

20Gauge

TB Fanatic
It dos not surprise me that it's thought to be older than anything Egyptian.
When it comes to not finding old writings around europe it seems we have the church of Rome to blame as they had their priest's walking about the country side looking for old writing's on natural rock walls and anywhere else it could be found and send people to scrub-destroy it thinking it was some pagan religion.

I always had a problem with the idea that civilization is only a few thousand years old. We have seen how destructive man can be and nature can be far worse. So any sign, memory or record from that far back would have been destroyed almost totally. The reason I had a problem with the short span of civilization is that we are being told that mankind was just as smart as it is today for the last 100,000 years or so. If so, when all the new things just recently? Not logical. I do believe that too much has been lost for one reason or another.
 

Publius

TB Fanatic
I always had a problem with the idea that civilization is only a few thousand years old. We have seen how destructive man can be and nature can be far worse. So any sign, memory or record from that far back would have been destroyed almost totally. The reason I had a problem with the short span of civilization is that we are being told that mankind was just as smart as it is today for the last 100,000 years or so. If so, when all the new things just recently? Not logical. I do believe that too much has been lost for one reason or another.


Knowth Ireland there are some human made mounds-structures that are 6,000+ years old and digs around the locations have reviled very old post holes from homes or buildings. At one time the Knowth mounds was said to be the oldest man made structures.
We have in resent years discovered much older remnants of advanced civliation sitting under water in a small number of locations around the world and thought to be 10,000. to 12,000 years old, yes during the last major ice age.
 
Top