okie medicvet
Membership Revoked
I wonder if they were even quarantined at all..we haven't heard any reports yet that they were.
Woman dies from Ebola Virus on Virgin Atlantic Flight
- Thread starter F4Gunfighter
- Start date
CelticRose
Membership Revoked
You don't think the lack of any follow up reports means the MS is trying to bury this story; do you? 
F4Gunfighter
Senior Member
CelticRose said:You don't think the lack of any follow up reports means the MS is trying to bury this story; do you?
I was thinking the same thing. The Mirror has nothing on their updated home page about this incident.
If it was a non event, you would think that they would report all is well.
It seems like they may be burying it deep.
I'd expect
the Brit paparazzi, (who make a school of hungry Great Whites look tame), to be screaming all over the place wanting more info. Not even the Mirror had any follow up I could see a few minutes ago.
If I hadn't read the original story at the Daily Mirror site, I'd by now be writing this off as a hoax. I tried Virgin Atlantic - their corporate website happens to be 'down for maintenance' - crappy timing.
Gonna email the reporter on the original story. Nothing at the WHO, (actually would have been surprised to see anything before confirmation) or at ProMed - which I find more surprising.
the Brit paparazzi, (who make a school of hungry Great Whites look tame), to be screaming all over the place wanting more info. Not even the Mirror had any follow up I could see a few minutes ago.
If I hadn't read the original story at the Daily Mirror site, I'd by now be writing this off as a hoax. I tried Virgin Atlantic - their corporate website happens to be 'down for maintenance' - crappy timing.
Gonna email the reporter on the original story. Nothing at the WHO, (actually would have been surprised to see anything before confirmation) or at ProMed - which I find more surprising.
From what I have read in the News..
From what I have always read in the news, the African Ebola was usually caught by eating wild Chimps. Then when the victim was bleeding out it was transmitted usually by preparing the body for being buried. From what the news says the death happens so rapidly with this that it is not really a pandemic sort of thing because the victims die so rapidly that it does not have the opportunity to transmit to a pandemic.
Hi yall, just got back on line after BAD FLU, and several melt downs TRYING to get new puter online!
F4Gunfighter said:
From what I have always read in the news, the African Ebola was usually caught by eating wild Chimps. Then when the victim was bleeding out it was transmitted usually by preparing the body for being buried. From what the news says the death happens so rapidly with this that it is not really a pandemic sort of thing because the victims die so rapidly that it does not have the opportunity to transmit to a pandemic.
Hi yall, just got back on line after BAD FLU, and several melt downs TRYING to get new puter online!
Checking out official delegations
The article said AN embassy. The British closed their High Commission there in April 2005. They have what appears to be a sole, (male rep), in Lesotho - contact numbers, fax & email. He may or may not have a secretary. The Danes have a Royal Consulate & the Consul's spot is currently vacant. The US have an embassy. I've checked all 3 sites & none mention the unfortunate death of a staff member.
If Lesotho is part of the Commonwealth, it's possible that on the strength of a British citizenship/passport, someone who'd chosen to live there might have obtained work at one of the three sites. I'm not sure about US policy in such matter. I can't see the Brit doing so, unless her job title was 'upgraded' for the article. Heck, she might have been a cleaner for the British guy. I have no idea if the Danes would hire her.
The US embassy site mentions co-ordinating a lot of Peace Corps volunteers but that doesn't seem to fit at all.
Rereading the article, the reporter states: "It is understood she worked...". I suspect that understanding may be incorrect. The Brits do have some kind of Foregin development office there - that may be more in line with what her employment was.
Some info on the country - some 53k men work in SA's diamond mines, sending home money. I wonder if somehow that may not be the source for whatever this is? Lesotho used to export quite a bit of clothing to the US but have been undercut big time by the Chinese. I wouldn't sweat that anyway - filovirsues wouldn't live long enough to infect anyone over here & we'd see the first cases wherever such shipments are recieved & unpacked.
Lesotho exports a lot of water to SA - no threat there I would think & generally the climate isn't one I'd necessarily associate with a filovirus - too high & 'plateauy' for that. If this is a filo, I think she picked it up through contact with someone from elsewhere or some THING from elsewhere.
If it's something more pedestrian - a staph or strep infection gone septic or toxic, I'd hope they'd at least give out that info - tell her fellow passengers what it wasn't. They can do that without breaking any pateint confidences, I'm sure.
The article said AN embassy. The British closed their High Commission there in April 2005. They have what appears to be a sole, (male rep), in Lesotho - contact numbers, fax & email. He may or may not have a secretary. The Danes have a Royal Consulate & the Consul's spot is currently vacant. The US have an embassy. I've checked all 3 sites & none mention the unfortunate death of a staff member.
If Lesotho is part of the Commonwealth, it's possible that on the strength of a British citizenship/passport, someone who'd chosen to live there might have obtained work at one of the three sites. I'm not sure about US policy in such matter. I can't see the Brit doing so, unless her job title was 'upgraded' for the article. Heck, she might have been a cleaner for the British guy. I have no idea if the Danes would hire her.
The US embassy site mentions co-ordinating a lot of Peace Corps volunteers but that doesn't seem to fit at all.
Rereading the article, the reporter states: "It is understood she worked...". I suspect that understanding may be incorrect. The Brits do have some kind of Foregin development office there - that may be more in line with what her employment was.
Some info on the country - some 53k men work in SA's diamond mines, sending home money. I wonder if somehow that may not be the source for whatever this is? Lesotho used to export quite a bit of clothing to the US but have been undercut big time by the Chinese. I wouldn't sweat that anyway - filovirsues wouldn't live long enough to infect anyone over here & we'd see the first cases wherever such shipments are recieved & unpacked.
Lesotho exports a lot of water to SA - no threat there I would think & generally the climate isn't one I'd necessarily associate with a filovirus - too high & 'plateauy' for that. If this is a filo, I think she picked it up through contact with someone from elsewhere or some THING from elsewhere.
If it's something more pedestrian - a staph or strep infection gone septic or toxic, I'd hope they'd at least give out that info - tell her fellow passengers what it wasn't. They can do that without breaking any pateint confidences, I'm sure.
BeeTree
yeah, once an ebola patient goes down, they STAY down. It's those caring for them & preparing the dead for burial, (you REALLY don't want to know), who are most at risk. Outbreaks have been continued in this manner & amplified through the still current practice of reusing syringes/needles after a simple swish in water to 'clean' them. Ebola is a close contact disease & burns through an area following close contact practices pretty rapidly. It's a very unlikely candidate for any sort of pandemic - unless a strain eventually goes airborne...
A case brought to the west would most likely lead to a number of secondary, perhaps a very few tertiary cases & that would be ongoing only until the disease was identified & word put out to everybody at risk from an imported case... as we may be seeing now. A person could be infected, come home & mingle until they broke with symptoms. As long as virus is present in blood & other scretions, it can be transmitted to others in contact with those secretions. Sperm is positive for virus a fair number of weeks after recovery... not that I expect too many would feel like getting it on after a bout with that bug!
In the original & largest outbreaks, secondary transmission occurred in 5% of case contacts in Zaire, 10-15% in Sudan. And don't forget, these contacts cared for the ill, prepared their bodies or were injected with contaminated syringes.
Even if this turns out to be Ebola, we may not see a single secondary case.
Man, we can only hope so...
Interestingly as well as chimps, the odd baboon & mandrill, dogs have been shown to carry Ebola antibodies. Dogs known to have fed on ebola contaminated bushmeat, (chimps, I think), develop antibodies but no illness. Gotta wonder about the risk of dogs as vectors... I suspect it's pretty small, nevertheless...
yeah, once an ebola patient goes down, they STAY down. It's those caring for them & preparing the dead for burial, (you REALLY don't want to know), who are most at risk. Outbreaks have been continued in this manner & amplified through the still current practice of reusing syringes/needles after a simple swish in water to 'clean' them. Ebola is a close contact disease & burns through an area following close contact practices pretty rapidly. It's a very unlikely candidate for any sort of pandemic - unless a strain eventually goes airborne...
A case brought to the west would most likely lead to a number of secondary, perhaps a very few tertiary cases & that would be ongoing only until the disease was identified & word put out to everybody at risk from an imported case... as we may be seeing now. A person could be infected, come home & mingle until they broke with symptoms. As long as virus is present in blood & other scretions, it can be transmitted to others in contact with those secretions. Sperm is positive for virus a fair number of weeks after recovery... not that I expect too many would feel like getting it on after a bout with that bug!
In the original & largest outbreaks, secondary transmission occurred in 5% of case contacts in Zaire, 10-15% in Sudan. And don't forget, these contacts cared for the ill, prepared their bodies or were injected with contaminated syringes.
Even if this turns out to be Ebola, we may not see a single secondary case.
Man, we can only hope so...
Interestingly as well as chimps, the odd baboon & mandrill, dogs have been shown to carry Ebola antibodies. Dogs known to have fed on ebola contaminated bushmeat, (chimps, I think), develop antibodies but no illness. Gotta wonder about the risk of dogs as vectors... I suspect it's pretty small, nevertheless...
1000 Thanks Sue
I would like to take this opportunity to second Sharon's 'Thanks'. I'am certain I can speak for many here at TB2K that you have been missed greatly, and to have your hand on the tiller is an enormous assistance to us all. THX CS.
BTW, I've been looking under a few rocks myself, and NOTHING. You're probably correct. It's Sunday early am across the pond and many hands on many levels are trying to pin-the-tail-on-the-donkey before the sun comes up.
Sharon said:
I would like to take this opportunity to second Sharon's 'Thanks'. I'am certain I can speak for many here at TB2K that you have been missed greatly, and to have your hand on the tiller is an enormous assistance to us all. THX CS.
BTW, I've been looking under a few rocks myself, and NOTHING. You're probably correct. It's Sunday early am across the pond and many hands on many levels are trying to pin-the-tail-on-the-donkey before the sun comes up.
Thanx
and in case anyone is wondering - this is NOT H5N1 in atypical manifestation. Her collapse was simply too 'spectacular', (as written up), to be that. I can find nothing in terms of anything odd in the respiratory illness department in that part of Africa right now. CCHF & CF are distinct possibilities but I'll review that in the morning.
There's been absolutely zilch in OUR media about it & we have a few medical reporters generally right on top of stuff like this. I'm just perturbed that the UK press is such a black hole right now. They don't tolerate being muzzled well at all - at least one tabloid is usually quite happy to go off the reservation with a potential blockbuster like this.
Maybe later - during their early tomorrow...
and in case anyone is wondering - this is NOT H5N1 in atypical manifestation. Her collapse was simply too 'spectacular', (as written up), to be that. I can find nothing in terms of anything odd in the respiratory illness department in that part of Africa right now. CCHF & CF are distinct possibilities but I'll review that in the morning.
There's been absolutely zilch in OUR media about it & we have a few medical reporters generally right on top of stuff like this. I'm just perturbed that the UK press is such a black hole right now. They don't tolerate being muzzled well at all - at least one tabloid is usually quite happy to go off the reservation with a potential blockbuster like this.
Maybe later - during their early tomorrow...
Marburg?
It seems a bit strange how the initial reports of this story state that Ebola is suspected as the causative agent yet nothing is confirmed pending laboratory analysis results. What exactly would cause health authorities to suspect Ebola instead of Marburg Virus, it's close cousin, being same virus but reportedly causing different antigen antibody responses? And the source of the worst ever outbreak of Hemorrhagic Fever ever recorded last year in Angola, Africa.
I remeber some big threads here last year in March & April 2005 concerning that Marburg outbreak. There were very unusual circumstances surrounding that outbreak in the severity of contagiousness and also mortality.
According to the CDC page on Marburg Virus, the normal “case-fatality rate” is between 23-25 %... but in the outbreak of Angola last year, the death rate was right at 90 %. This is a higher mortality than even Ebola I think. I also remember that WHO announced that Angola outbreak of Marburg was disproportionately affecting children, about 75% of the cases were under the age of 5 or so. Those aspects of the Angola Outbreak struck me as being quite suspicious of what might really be going on behind the scenes during that time.
The CDC reports that the other significant Marburg outbreak was in the neighboring nation of Congo around 1998-2000, when it killed 123 people.
If I remember correctly a couple of the doctors and over a dozen nurses at the hospitals in Angola died from exposure to the virus despite isolation precautions. It is reported to be extremely contagious and can spread millions of live virus in just 1 cough from a victim.
The CDC posted their last update in May 6, 2005, and reported that there were 330 cases and 280 deaths in the Angola Outbreak.
CDC: Marburg Hemorrhagic Fever:
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvrd/spb/mnpages/dispages/marburg.htm
=======================
Here are some brief facts on Marburg from this article in snips quoted
(fair use cited):
4/16/2005 Stalking a Deadly Virus, Battling a Town´s Fears
By SHARON LaFRANIERE and DENISE GRADY
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/17/i...0&partner=homepage&pagewanted=print&position=
QUOTE SNIP:
---“The virus is highly contagious, making any outbreak a cause for widespread fear and fascination in a world shrunk by international travel and trade. Marburg spreads through blood, vomit, semen and other bodily fluids. Even a cough can prove fatal if a few drops of spittle hit someone else. Corpses, teeming with the virus, are especially dangerous. A contaminated surface can be deadly - the virus can find its way into someone´s eyes, nose or mouth, or enter the bloodstream through a cut.
---"Once inside the body, it moves with terrifying speed, invading white blood cells essential to fighting off infection. On Day 3 of the infection, there are fewer than 200 viruses in a drop of blood. By Day 8, there are five million. "That´s why dead bodies are kind of like bombs," said Dr. Heinz Feldmann, a virologist from Winnipeg...
---"Each person who may have been exposed to the disease has to be followed for 21 days, and hospitalized if symptoms develop. Symptoms usually appear within 5 to 10 days of infection. First come a headache, high fever, and aches and pains, followed by diarrhea and vomiting. The virus invades the spleen, liver and lymph nodes and then moves into other tissues all over the body, including skin and sweat glands.
---"The disease interferes with blood clotting, and about half the victims hemorrhage. They may vomit blood and pass it in their urine, and bleed from their eyes, gums, rectum or vagina. (I have read that the Marburg virus actually “consumes” the bodies clotting factors and thus the victim dies from shock).
--------------------------------
Funny how the various articles I’m reviewing on Marburg and Ebola all speak about the importance of quarantining anyone possibly exposed, especially those that are in direct contact or close proximity to a victim. Everyone that was on board is potentially infected as that airplane’s air system would have been loaded with the virus just from the aerosolized droplets exhaled by the ill woman during the long flight. No wonder they are dropping this off the radar like one very hot potato, glowing radioactive red ... lordy, this could be a major national security threat for UK and quickly develop into a massive international crisis, on a global scale, within just a few days.
Of course I'm also wondering along with the rest of you if this woman’s illness on a plane loaded with passengers is more than just a coincidence? That we are seeing the beginnings of a deadly BCW attack taking place ???
It seems very suspicious that a staff member of an Embassy would have contracted something like Ebola or Marburg, just like the scenes from a spy movie. Could she have been deliberately innoculated by a planted carrier like fleas or ? The CDC site says that bats are suspected to carry the disease and that they still don't know much about this virus or how it is spread.
I wonder if the corpses buried in Angola from 2005 would still contain viable samples of this extremely virulent and lethal strain of Marburg? If so … YIKES! Didn’t research scientists dig up corpses and obtain living samples of the 1918 Spanish Flu (same virus as H5N1) in Alaska a few years ago? I recall reading an article from Australia a few months ago where the authorities were expressing concerns that terrorists might dig up bodies of the Indonesia Bird Flu victims and smuggle vials of the tissue into their country, etc.
Considering the BCW possibilities surrounding this situation, it is interesting note that Tulane University Medical School of New Orleans was (is?) the designated BSL III lab for researching vaccines and counter-defense measures against agents of Viral Hemorrhagic Fevers, including Ebola and Marburg Filoviri. I recall something about how some of their research monkeys supposedly escaped or died in the Katrina flooding, etc and there are threads here documenting those details but will check for them later if situation warrants. Tulane, specializing in Tropical Medicine, worked in partnership with the BSL IV (highest level) lab in Galveston at the University of Texas Medical School.
And according to the Wikipedia site, [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marburg_virus ]Marburg has been the bioweapon of choice for several TV programs, like the “Millennium Series” -- also a novel called “Cain,” which involved some sort of ancient being named Cain that threatened to annihilate humanity by infecting the world with Marburg during the End Times. That scenario sounds similar to the accounts in Z. Sitchin’s books detailing the Sumerian tales of the Anunnaki “gods”; Ea/Enki versus Cain/Enlil and their alien warfare supposedly taking place thousands of years ago and then being recorded in many ancient texts including Genesis of the Bible, etc.
The timing of this event on top of all the other evolving "concerns" we're facing at this time certainly seems suspect in my mind and I'm staying on super-high alert.
It seems a bit strange how the initial reports of this story state that Ebola is suspected as the causative agent yet nothing is confirmed pending laboratory analysis results. What exactly would cause health authorities to suspect Ebola instead of Marburg Virus, it's close cousin, being same virus but reportedly causing different antigen antibody responses? And the source of the worst ever outbreak of Hemorrhagic Fever ever recorded last year in Angola, Africa.
I remeber some big threads here last year in March & April 2005 concerning that Marburg outbreak. There were very unusual circumstances surrounding that outbreak in the severity of contagiousness and also mortality.
According to the CDC page on Marburg Virus, the normal “case-fatality rate” is between 23-25 %... but in the outbreak of Angola last year, the death rate was right at 90 %. This is a higher mortality than even Ebola I think. I also remember that WHO announced that Angola outbreak of Marburg was disproportionately affecting children, about 75% of the cases were under the age of 5 or so. Those aspects of the Angola Outbreak struck me as being quite suspicious of what might really be going on behind the scenes during that time.
The CDC reports that the other significant Marburg outbreak was in the neighboring nation of Congo around 1998-2000, when it killed 123 people.
If I remember correctly a couple of the doctors and over a dozen nurses at the hospitals in Angola died from exposure to the virus despite isolation precautions. It is reported to be extremely contagious and can spread millions of live virus in just 1 cough from a victim.
The CDC posted their last update in May 6, 2005, and reported that there were 330 cases and 280 deaths in the Angola Outbreak.
CDC: Marburg Hemorrhagic Fever:
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvrd/spb/mnpages/dispages/marburg.htm
=======================
Here are some brief facts on Marburg from this article in snips quoted
(fair use cited):
4/16/2005 Stalking a Deadly Virus, Battling a Town´s Fears
By SHARON LaFRANIERE and DENISE GRADY
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/17/i...0&partner=homepage&pagewanted=print&position=
QUOTE SNIP:
---“The virus is highly contagious, making any outbreak a cause for widespread fear and fascination in a world shrunk by international travel and trade. Marburg spreads through blood, vomit, semen and other bodily fluids. Even a cough can prove fatal if a few drops of spittle hit someone else. Corpses, teeming with the virus, are especially dangerous. A contaminated surface can be deadly - the virus can find its way into someone´s eyes, nose or mouth, or enter the bloodstream through a cut.
---"Once inside the body, it moves with terrifying speed, invading white blood cells essential to fighting off infection. On Day 3 of the infection, there are fewer than 200 viruses in a drop of blood. By Day 8, there are five million. "That´s why dead bodies are kind of like bombs," said Dr. Heinz Feldmann, a virologist from Winnipeg...
---"Each person who may have been exposed to the disease has to be followed for 21 days, and hospitalized if symptoms develop. Symptoms usually appear within 5 to 10 days of infection. First come a headache, high fever, and aches and pains, followed by diarrhea and vomiting. The virus invades the spleen, liver and lymph nodes and then moves into other tissues all over the body, including skin and sweat glands.
---"The disease interferes with blood clotting, and about half the victims hemorrhage. They may vomit blood and pass it in their urine, and bleed from their eyes, gums, rectum or vagina. (I have read that the Marburg virus actually “consumes” the bodies clotting factors and thus the victim dies from shock).
--------------------------------
Funny how the various articles I’m reviewing on Marburg and Ebola all speak about the importance of quarantining anyone possibly exposed, especially those that are in direct contact or close proximity to a victim. Everyone that was on board is potentially infected as that airplane’s air system would have been loaded with the virus just from the aerosolized droplets exhaled by the ill woman during the long flight. No wonder they are dropping this off the radar like one very hot potato, glowing radioactive red ... lordy, this could be a major national security threat for UK and quickly develop into a massive international crisis, on a global scale, within just a few days.
Of course I'm also wondering along with the rest of you if this woman’s illness on a plane loaded with passengers is more than just a coincidence? That we are seeing the beginnings of a deadly BCW attack taking place ???
It seems very suspicious that a staff member of an Embassy would have contracted something like Ebola or Marburg, just like the scenes from a spy movie. Could she have been deliberately innoculated by a planted carrier like fleas or ? The CDC site says that bats are suspected to carry the disease and that they still don't know much about this virus or how it is spread.
I wonder if the corpses buried in Angola from 2005 would still contain viable samples of this extremely virulent and lethal strain of Marburg? If so … YIKES! Didn’t research scientists dig up corpses and obtain living samples of the 1918 Spanish Flu (same virus as H5N1) in Alaska a few years ago? I recall reading an article from Australia a few months ago where the authorities were expressing concerns that terrorists might dig up bodies of the Indonesia Bird Flu victims and smuggle vials of the tissue into their country, etc.
Considering the BCW possibilities surrounding this situation, it is interesting note that Tulane University Medical School of New Orleans was (is?) the designated BSL III lab for researching vaccines and counter-defense measures against agents of Viral Hemorrhagic Fevers, including Ebola and Marburg Filoviri. I recall something about how some of their research monkeys supposedly escaped or died in the Katrina flooding, etc and there are threads here documenting those details but will check for them later if situation warrants. Tulane, specializing in Tropical Medicine, worked in partnership with the BSL IV (highest level) lab in Galveston at the University of Texas Medical School.
And according to the Wikipedia site, [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marburg_virus ]Marburg has been the bioweapon of choice for several TV programs, like the “Millennium Series” -- also a novel called “Cain,” which involved some sort of ancient being named Cain that threatened to annihilate humanity by infecting the world with Marburg during the End Times. That scenario sounds similar to the accounts in Z. Sitchin’s books detailing the Sumerian tales of the Anunnaki “gods”; Ea/Enki versus Cain/Enlil and their alien warfare supposedly taking place thousands of years ago and then being recorded in many ancient texts including Genesis of the Bible, etc.
The timing of this event on top of all the other evolving "concerns" we're facing at this time certainly seems suspect in my mind and I'm staying on super-high alert.
Last edited:
It could be Marburg
or one of a dozen or more VHFs. The only other recorded cases of any filovirus anywhere near South Africa were back in the mid-70s I think. A traveller brought it in from Zin & 2 others were infected. Traveller died, other 2 survived. Until the big Angolan outbreak last year, Marburg hadn't been seen often, so it was pretty hard to calcaulate a true fatality rate - I think. They may have assumed it would stay below 50%. Clearly it didn't last time out. Only Rbola I know with a higher CFR than the Sngolan Marburg outbreak is Ebola Sudan - Mayinga substrain... think the strain is Sudan - might be Zaire...
But there's a whole lot we don't know about this rare family of pathogens - far too much remains unknown.
As a bioweapon aimed at the west, if I were thinking as a bioterrorist it wouldn't be my weapon of choice - it's simply too easily controlled once you're aware of what you're dealing with. Isolation, PPE... Even if they strongly suspect they're dealing with a filo & are stupidly trying to keep a lid on things, I don't see the point. Some clear public earnings as well as sound medical advice about isolation, how to contact medical care, etc. will prevent a lot more cases than hushing it up.
No point in that anyway if any passenger transferred to flights leaving the UK. They may want to 'keep a lid on things', (& that's a big assumption), but other countries would NOT do so.
None of the research monkeys from Tulane escaped.
Spnaish Flu could be exhumed, (& it was far from intact), because the bodies remained frozen - hardly the case in Angola. The bodies were shrouded, limed & buried deep. There would be nothing left. However, we don't know much about the life cycle of filos... but you'd think such graves being disturbed would be noticed after the fact & anyone trying to exhume them would be jumped on by locals for several very good reasons - including not wanting their dead messed with.
If they could ever turn a filovirus fully airborne, you'd have one heck of a bioweapon on your hands but there's one little problem...
you'd want a vax or cure FIRST - else you really aren't interested in surviving the hell about to ensue.
or one of a dozen or more VHFs. The only other recorded cases of any filovirus anywhere near South Africa were back in the mid-70s I think. A traveller brought it in from Zin & 2 others were infected. Traveller died, other 2 survived. Until the big Angolan outbreak last year, Marburg hadn't been seen often, so it was pretty hard to calcaulate a true fatality rate - I think. They may have assumed it would stay below 50%. Clearly it didn't last time out. Only Rbola I know with a higher CFR than the Sngolan Marburg outbreak is Ebola Sudan - Mayinga substrain... think the strain is Sudan - might be Zaire...
But there's a whole lot we don't know about this rare family of pathogens - far too much remains unknown.
As a bioweapon aimed at the west, if I were thinking as a bioterrorist it wouldn't be my weapon of choice - it's simply too easily controlled once you're aware of what you're dealing with. Isolation, PPE... Even if they strongly suspect they're dealing with a filo & are stupidly trying to keep a lid on things, I don't see the point. Some clear public earnings as well as sound medical advice about isolation, how to contact medical care, etc. will prevent a lot more cases than hushing it up.
No point in that anyway if any passenger transferred to flights leaving the UK. They may want to 'keep a lid on things', (& that's a big assumption), but other countries would NOT do so.
None of the research monkeys from Tulane escaped.
Spnaish Flu could be exhumed, (& it was far from intact), because the bodies remained frozen - hardly the case in Angola. The bodies were shrouded, limed & buried deep. There would be nothing left. However, we don't know much about the life cycle of filos... but you'd think such graves being disturbed would be noticed after the fact & anyone trying to exhume them would be jumped on by locals for several very good reasons - including not wanting their dead messed with.
If they could ever turn a filovirus fully airborne, you'd have one heck of a bioweapon on your hands but there's one little problem...
you'd want a vax or cure FIRST - else you really aren't interested in surviving the hell about to ensue.
Apparently not Ebola
Seems a poster at FluWiki was successful in contacting Hillingdon Hospital where a spokesman says it wasn't that. An autopsy is being carried out early next week:
http://www.fluwikie2.com/pmwiki.php?n=Forum.SuspectedEbolaStoryIsSomeoneBlockingTheNews
Poster named Prazza at 1809...
Seems a poster at FluWiki was successful in contacting Hillingdon Hospital where a spokesman says it wasn't that. An autopsy is being carried out early next week:
http://www.fluwikie2.com/pmwiki.php?n=Forum.SuspectedEbolaStoryIsSomeoneBlockingTheNews
Poster named Prazza at 1809...
ainitfunny
Saved, to glorify God.
Canada Sue, I treasure your posts, you are an insightful, incisive thinker and pick up on the stuff most of us miss. You catch the significance of even the mundane and illustrate how pivotally crucial such things as how the person got from the airport to the hotel, the exchange of money, the question of informing the taxi driver, the problem of cleaning the hotel room and not spreading the contagion to others there IF one did indeed turn out to have contracted it. Good posts Sue.
I might mention that I think the aircraft staff ARE pretty careful to take as many precautions as they can as I myself suddenly had difficulty catching my breath on a cross country flight back in 93-94 and when I informed the stewardess she IMMEDIATELY moved me to another seat that had an empty seat next to it and put me on oxygen and they carefully monitored me the rest of the flight. (turns out I did not know I had a blocked Right Coronary Artery at the time, which flying made evident). But they did not take any chances an kept me apart from others.
CanadaSue said:
I might mention that I think the aircraft staff ARE pretty careful to take as many precautions as they can as I myself suddenly had difficulty catching my breath on a cross country flight back in 93-94 and when I informed the stewardess she IMMEDIATELY moved me to another seat that had an empty seat next to it and put me on oxygen and they carefully monitored me the rest of the flight. (turns out I did not know I had a blocked Right Coronary Artery at the time, which flying made evident). But they did not take any chances an kept me apart from others.
CelticRose
Membership Revoked
Thank you, CanadaSue!!! Great work!!! 
Perpetuity
Inactive
CanadaSue, many thanks for your insight and thinking...not to mention your amount of checking on this situation! You give a person alot to think about on this. It still amazes me that sometimes the most dangerous things to humans aren't necessarily the "biggies" in life, but that is which is unseen.
Hope everything turns out to be a "dry run", so to speak, and hopefully stays that way for quite some time down the road. Given what's on the horizon, hope is all we can bank on.
Hope everything turns out to be a "dry run", so to speak, and hopefully stays that way for quite some time down the road. Given what's on the horizon, hope is all we can bank on.
The New Border control will put a stop..
To ALOT of infectious diseases coming into the U.S. AND I am glad that the pourous borders are now stopped. I think that the Guard will do a great job of controlling the flow of ILLEGALS. I read today that they WILL have guns and will shoot if they need to. Good. And thanks CS for your informative posts! We are very fortunate that we have not had any outbreaks other than the deadly flu! Which kills many as it is.
To ALOT of infectious diseases coming into the U.S. AND I am glad that the pourous borders are now stopped. I think that the Guard will do a great job of controlling the flow of ILLEGALS. I read today that they WILL have guns and will shoot if they need to. Good. And thanks CS for your informative posts! We are very fortunate that we have not had any outbreaks other than the deadly flu! Which kills many as it is.
ARMY RANGER
Inactive
Here is the perfect example what will happen when H5N1 appears.People are so god damn stupid it makes me freakin sick to my stomach.The plane should have been quarantined! God I am so pissed I cant even tell :ya!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Canada Sue, thank you for your thoughtful and most informative posts tonight.
The wife and I had just returned from eating out this evening, and as I read your posts it occured to me that I had not washed my hands since returning home. Neither had my wife washed hers.
So, the hands got a soap and water washing with a follow up bath in an alcohol solution. I keep forgetting to do these things, and it's going to catch up to me one day.
Thank you again for your efforts,
Woolly
The wife and I had just returned from eating out this evening, and as I read your posts it occured to me that I had not washed my hands since returning home. Neither had my wife washed hers.
So, the hands got a soap and water washing with a follow up bath in an alcohol solution. I keep forgetting to do these things, and it's going to catch up to me one day.
Thank you again for your efforts,
Woolly
night driver
ESFP adrift in INTJ sea
Just to add another level of wetr blanket-ness, this COULD be a case of a flu victim (garden variety, select one form any collumn) who happened to have a bleeding ulcer or esophageal varices, EITHER of which would (or could) generate hemoptsis (bloody vomitus), prostration from bleeding out, and death.
So, let's wait for the autopsy.
If it WERE Ebola, washing properly would GENERALLY take care of the flight crew, so long as they didn't ingest or have other serous contact with the vic's body fluids.
So, let's wait for the autopsy.
If it WERE Ebola, washing properly would GENERALLY take care of the flight crew, so long as they didn't ingest or have other serous contact with the vic's body fluids.
housemouse
Membership Revoked
I completely agree, NightDriver. The part about this that bothers me is the vested interest any government, not just ours, has in maintaining "order". I seriously doubt we will find out what caused her death.
Some soporific general statement will be made, of course, but the acutal truth will not be known until months or years later.
Some soporific general statement will be made, of course, but the acutal truth will not be known until months or years later.
momof23goats
Deceased
I think that the story will be buried, until the deaths start to happen. question,how many of the people on board, got on other flights, and to where? this is serious. these people should have all been taken t oa hospital , and put in isolation until they know what they are dealing with . better t obe late getting home, than risking thousands of lives, all over the world. this was just a really dumb move., omn th airport's part. better to be safe, than sorry ,and end up with a pandamic. and it looks like it is about to start. better watch this one closely.
gillmanNSF
Veteran Member
joannita said:
The Coming Plague "A thinking person’s THE HOT ZONE, far more comprehensive and accurate, Garrett presents a picture of emerging viruses that is, finally, far more frightening." http://www.txtwriter.com/bookshelf/bookreviews/ComingPlague.html
Read it about 10 years ago. A more comprehensive book than that other, much touted Hot Zone, IMO. I would try reading print again if I hadn't recently packed it away.
http://www.lauriegarrett.com/index_coming.html
http://www.cesmi.org/public/reviews/books/book9.html
No Chuck---simple washing , once you've been exposed, won't prevent you from getting the disease(s). Many of the health care workers in Africa have used pretty good aseptic techniques and still come down with the illnesses. Even some folks burying their dead and burning their huts have come down with the diseases. Some of the Hemorrhagic Fevers still have a lot of unknowns.
One of the things that has kept Ebola from spreading in the isolated areas is that the victims die quickly before the illness can be widely spread and the fact that they lived away from heavily populated areas. That this lady took two international flights while very ill is pretty frightening.
One of the things that has kept Ebola from spreading in the isolated areas is that the victims die quickly before the illness can be widely spread and the fact that they lived away from heavily populated areas. That this lady took two international flights while very ill is pretty frightening.
Moon
Veteran Member
Have to say i have not heard anything about this over here....however Hilligdon Hospital is the front line for anything that comes in via Heathrow so they are very well prepared....
i seem to have heard this story before though so i dont think this is the first time nor no doubt the last........given Canada Sue's fantastic info it seems it may not necessarily be worth getting every one pumped up about this in the press...it may even be blocked for a few days to measure its outcome.......
We will see no doubt soon
i seem to have heard this story before though so i dont think this is the first time nor no doubt the last........given Canada Sue's fantastic info it seems it may not necessarily be worth getting every one pumped up about this in the press...it may even be blocked for a few days to measure its outcome.......
We will see no doubt soon
Melodi
Disaster Cat
Nothing in this morning's Sunday Times that I could find (or the BBC website so far). I suspect story is being kept quiet until they know something. After all, they already let everyone go off in all directions, though I think the powers that be are just hoping for the best. If they "Knew" for sure something was out there, I think they would be broadcasting far and wide to try to get people to come in and get looked at (that has happened before even here in Ireland with some outbreaks of various diseases). On the other hand, this could be so serious that the fear of panic outways the common sense of trying to track people, at least until they know there is something to track.
The longer this goes without anything in the local media (even a "women dies of bleeding ulcer scares passengers and crew") the more I concerned I become. Because if we never here anything at all, it most likely means they have no idea what happened and just don't want the public to think about all the implications of what can happen on an aircraft during the start of a disease breakout.
Good work Canada Sue, been following your posts on both lists.
Melodi/DisasterCat
The longer this goes without anything in the local media (even a "women dies of bleeding ulcer scares passengers and crew") the more I concerned I become. Because if we never here anything at all, it most likely means they have no idea what happened and just don't want the public to think about all the implications of what can happen on an aircraft during the start of a disease breakout.
Good work Canada Sue, been following your posts on both lists.
Melodi/DisasterCat
momof23goats
Deceased
I agree, this will be blamed on something, evry day, like uclers, until it shows up other places, however, I do find fault with the airport, they should have all been quarntined, until, they know exactly what she died of.
If it is what they said it is, thousands, if not millions , have already been infected,
because you start out with 248 on the plane, plus the crew,each one of those people came into contact with at least ten people, many got on other flights, now all of those have been in contact, so take it from there. apparently she was a healthy woman before the trip, so that leaves out a lot of average things, so one has to wonder. however, if there is a world wide out break of this, better have preps, and plan on staying off t oones self.
If it is what they said it is, thousands, if not millions , have already been infected,
because you start out with 248 on the plane, plus the crew,each one of those people came into contact with at least ten people, many got on other flights, now all of those have been in contact, so take it from there. apparently she was a healthy woman before the trip, so that leaves out a lot of average things, so one has to wonder. however, if there is a world wide out break of this, better have preps, and plan on staying off t oones self.
If they KNEW
they had a passenger who had, on a crowded plane, had become very ill with Ebola, hurling & bleeding all over upholstery, possibly other passengers & cabin crew, I'd have this all over the press - making SURE those involved knew the potential risks. It's really not that easy to catch but once you do - this is not something anyone wants to go through.
There's no follow up anywhere - not even in The Mirror - this may have been yet another one of their 'let's up circulation' stories. I'm not saying a passenger didn't die after being taken off the plane. She may certainly have thrown up, have been seen to bleed - but there too, how much bleeding? If she had previous flu-like symptoms & had been most of the night ina very dry, crowded plane of the 'seven squishy seven' class - she may have had cracked lips or a slight nosebleed...
Even if the story is bang on accurate, no more than a few hundred people will have been POTENTIALLY exposed. Those at the highest level of risk will have been those who were right beside her & dealing with her. If they had adequate warnings about what to do & not do, they're fine - unless they've already got the virus in their systems.
In retrospect, the type of detail available in the article is 'interesting' & I wonder where the reporter got it. How does he know she consulted a doctor before flying before flu-like symptoms? I can't see the passenger having been in any shape to tell anyone that. If she did, how did he access that passenger or member of the cabin crew? Why no names - especially of the cabin crew claiming the passengers & crew are 'frantic'? How come none of these 'frantic' people have spoken to the press about their concerns? The reporter saw fit to provide these worrying details yet says nothing about how she was transported to hospital - was the plane gated at a different location - was she taken off first or last?
If, as the fluwiki poster reported she's due to be autopsied this week, if there's anything noteworthy to report, it will come out. If the reporter in question doesn't do the follow up, then it's a semi-bogus story - at the very least.
they had a passenger who had, on a crowded plane, had become very ill with Ebola, hurling & bleeding all over upholstery, possibly other passengers & cabin crew, I'd have this all over the press - making SURE those involved knew the potential risks. It's really not that easy to catch but once you do - this is not something anyone wants to go through.
There's no follow up anywhere - not even in The Mirror - this may have been yet another one of their 'let's up circulation' stories. I'm not saying a passenger didn't die after being taken off the plane. She may certainly have thrown up, have been seen to bleed - but there too, how much bleeding? If she had previous flu-like symptoms & had been most of the night ina very dry, crowded plane of the 'seven squishy seven' class - she may have had cracked lips or a slight nosebleed...
Even if the story is bang on accurate, no more than a few hundred people will have been POTENTIALLY exposed. Those at the highest level of risk will have been those who were right beside her & dealing with her. If they had adequate warnings about what to do & not do, they're fine - unless they've already got the virus in their systems.
In retrospect, the type of detail available in the article is 'interesting' & I wonder where the reporter got it. How does he know she consulted a doctor before flying before flu-like symptoms? I can't see the passenger having been in any shape to tell anyone that. If she did, how did he access that passenger or member of the cabin crew? Why no names - especially of the cabin crew claiming the passengers & crew are 'frantic'? How come none of these 'frantic' people have spoken to the press about their concerns? The reporter saw fit to provide these worrying details yet says nothing about how she was transported to hospital - was the plane gated at a different location - was she taken off first or last?
If, as the fluwiki poster reported she's due to be autopsied this week, if there's anything noteworthy to report, it will come out. If the reporter in question doesn't do the follow up, then it's a semi-bogus story - at the very least.
Regarding the reporter, it looks like Stephen Moyes was nominate reporter of the year for the British Press awards 2006 and he won “scoop of the year”. fwiwCanadaSue said:
http://www.answers.com/topic/british-press-awards-2006
Chronicles
Membership Revoked
I wonder just how far the other passingers, have now enter mixed with the world?
By now, God only knows.
MATTHEW 24:7 "For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places.
8 "All these are the beginning of sorrows.
I see it all coming down right out in the open, it's kind of like looking through a glass darkly.
I suspect within the next 2 weeks, we will know if anything comes of all this Ebola, Marburg, or what ever it is.
By now, God only knows.
MATTHEW 24:7 "For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places.
8 "All these are the beginning of sorrows.
I see it all coming down right out in the open, it's kind of like looking through a glass darkly.
I suspect within the next 2 weeks, we will know if anything comes of all this Ebola, Marburg, or what ever it is.