EBOLA Why Ebola Quarantines Will Grow Larger -- And More Troubling

TerriHaute

Hoosier Gardener
http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottgo...rantines-will-grow-larger-and-more-troubling/

The critical reckoning over forced quarantines is still to come.

Consider this scenario.

Sometime in January or February – as the Ebola epidemic explodes out of West Africa – we’ll start experiencing larger, more frequent outbreaks in American cities. With the flu as a background to confound suspected cases of Ebola, public health departments will be hard pressed to “track and trace” all of the potential “contacts” when perhaps dozens of Ebola cases pop up in their cities.

Unable to pinpoint who might have come in close contact with Ebola, and be at risk of contracting the virus, they will reach for their most absolute tool – forced quarantine – as a way to mitigate threat amidst uncertainty. The number of people who will be placed into forced quarantines could easily number in the hundreds.

If this scenario sounds far fetched, take a closer look at the accelerating epidemic in West Africa. If the rate of spread doesn’t start to subside soon (there are some encouraging signs of deceleration in Liberia, but spread is accelerating in Guinea and Sierra Leone) it’s just a matter of time before Ebola breaks out to a region with closer connections to the U.S. — like Latin America. Once it goes to such a market, and becomes epidemic, the U.S. would be importing far more than the sporadic case.

This begs the question, how will state and federal governments exercise their authority to quarantine people in such a scenario. As we have seen from recent events, that legal power is sweeping, intrusive, poorly defined, and absolute.

Under current law, the federal government is responsible for quarantining individuals traveling from outside the U.S. or between states, while state governments have quarantine authority over people traveling within state boundaries.

Federal and state governments must have a factual basis to support a quarantine. There must be a plausible reason to believe that a person placed in quarantine was exposed to a suspect pathogen, or might be incubating the disease. But it’s left mostly up to the government to develop that basis. And it needn’t be a high bar.

The quarantine also needs to be discriminating. The government can’t quarantine an entire city, for example. But the government could quarantine an entire plane if it was believed that an airborne pathogen was released inside; or an entire classroom of children if one child might have exposed others to a virus.

The Bush Administration attempted to set out more parameters around how quarantine would be used in a public health emergency such as a bioterrorist act, by issuing a new regulation interpreting the decades-old legal authority. But in trying to spell out some general parameters, the Bush-era rule also exposed just how absolute and intrusive the underlying legal authority is. It spooked civil libertarians.

And before one begrudges the CDC the decision of putting its people in the field in Africa while we face risks at home, our eventual fate rests on what happens in West Africa. If we don’t break the virus there, it will arrive on our shores with a vengeance.

To be sure, Frieden is the Obama Administration’s spokesperson on this issue. But he has not been made their quarterback. The White House is still holding the ball, or better yet, hiding it in some kind trick play while the defense chases after Frieden.

And even now, the CDC is learning from their mistakes in a prompt fashion — not on government bureaucracy time. On private sector time, on Google GOOGL -0.14% time.

The CDC has changed the protocols for how they will treat patients. They are moving toward a strategy of creating “centers of excellence” to manage cases, so they can assert more control over the clinical parameters of how patients are cared for.

This is no easy feat. Compare the CDC’s real-time learning and situational awareness with the Food and Drug Administration.

The FDA told Bloomberg this week that it would likely require placebo-controlled trials for the testing of Ebola therapeutics, despite the urgency of expediting access to promising drugs, the well-understood lethality of the disease, and the grim fate faced by those obligated to placebo. The CDC is adjusting to match the scope of the threat. FDA is turning to its traditional toolbox.

Finally, there is the issue of leadership. And here Frieden deserves more benefit of our many doubts. If we manage to get the Ebola epidemic under control in West Africa, and stave off larger outbreaks in the U.S., a lot of the credit will go to this man. When we look back, the turning point, or at least the start of the beginning of the turning point, may well be the trip Frieden took to West Africa earlier last month.

When he returned, he had a grim report that clearly instigated the White House to begin a more robust relief effort. His dire warnings and outspoken portents were unusually frightening, and exceptional rhetoric for a public health leader to use. It was perhaps unprecedented for a CDC head in modern times.

Frieden got well in front of his boss, The President of the United States. He forced the White House to action. This is not an easy task for a subordinate leader in a political system, and seems to be an even harder task in Obama’s Washington.

Frieden is being scapegoated in the media. He might have earned some of the scorn by taking so many turns at the podium.

My hunch? A White House that didn’t want to own another evolving debacle abandoned him on the lectern and forced him to the microphone.

Lot’s of tests still remain for the CDC. When the outbreaks in the U.S. grow in scope and frequency, how will the CDC use its expansive quarantine authority, which it has failed to fully define? Out of a sense of urgency, or panic, will it implement this broad authority with no frills, trampling people’s rights? Will the CDC be able to manage a growing volume of cases with their current pool of epidemiologists? Will the CDC adapt its advice and protocols should the virus evolve its biology? And are the agency’s scientists poised to understand this evolution in time to modify their policies?

We stand at a precarious moment — with the virus accelerating it’s spread in West Africa. If that contagion continues, and grows, the virus will move to more populous nations like Nigeria, and then eventually emerging markets — where it may well become epidemic. India and Latin America are at grave risk in this circumstance.

If that happens, we will be battling here in the U.S. increasingly larger and more frequent outbreaks. We will be in this fight for a long time. Absent a drug or vaccine that can thwart Ebola, at that point the virus could literally change human history.

The stakes are that high. But the CDC is not the nexus of the problem. And so far, it has been the only agency coming up with practical solutions, and learning what it doesn’t know. They are on the ground. They are adapting to the fight. We would be better prepared if our other agencies, and our President, shared their aplomb.
 

LOWDOG1

Member
I think the author's projection of "hundreds" of ebola quarantine detainees will prove to be a gross underestimate.
 

Adino

paradigm shaper
as w. africa has taught, forced quarantines only work before the virus has spread widely thru the population

once it spread sufficiently, and a forced quarantine of large populations is called for, the virus spreads faster and wider

the reason being that literally everyone floods to the stores, pharmacies, etc to get prepped up for the quarantine

the mass of people out and about prepping to shut in brings larger numbers of infected people into contact w/ new hosts

the results have been spikes in the outbreak

the time to successfully quarantine is BEFORE the virus has become widespread in the herd

the only way to stop it is to deprive it of new hosts

that is only effective very, very early in the outbreak in heavily urbanized areas
 

OddOne

< Yes, I do look like that.
"The stakes are that high. But the CDC is not the nexus of the problem. And so far, it has been the only agency coming up with practical solutions, and learning what it doesn’t know. They are on the ground. They are adapting to the fight. We would be better prepared if our other agencies, and our President, shared their aplomb."

In other words, the CDC is leading the charge. Kinda gives one the warm fuzzies, no?

What we're seeing in the US is political (mis)management of a medical crisis at its finest.
 

night driver

ESFP adrift in INTJ sea
Public health law gives the responsibility to the COUNTY PUBLIC HEALTH (OFFICER/NURSE).

Look back to 1918. Quarantine was the ONLY SUCCESSFUL TOOL to slow down the Spanish Flu.
 

summerthyme

Administrator
_______________
God help us if the CDC is leading the charge!

Can't ANYONE see that this is why we simply must stop ANYone from coming in from West Africa, if they don't agree ahead of time to a solid, 21 day quarantine?!

WTF is wrong with these people!?

Of course, it will "spread" if we allow these idiots (whether West Africans hoping for a 'cure' at our expense, or the liberal Special snowflakes "doing good") to simply wander around until they begin to "show symptoms". Especially with +/-15% of those who get the disease NEVER showing a fever at all.

God help us all.

Summerthyme
 

The Mountain

Here since the beginning
_______________
...there are some encouraging signs of deceleration in Liberia, but spread is accelerating in Guinea and Sierra Leone

The private opinion of this seems generally to be not that deaths from Ebola are declining, but that *reports* of deaths from Ebola are declining. People there are apparently bribing officials to either not record the death, or record it as something else, just so they can give the remains a "proper burial" (Ebola corpses must be disposed of by other means; families feel it is disrespectful and the gov probably is glad not to have to expend the effort). Combined with the likelihood that the decline in ebola presentations at the various clinics is due to people either simply giving up or misunderstanding what the clinics are for (Say, our neighbor went to the clinic when he started feeling sick, and never came back; we don't want to disappear so we won't go to the clinic), the spread in Liberia will continue only now it won't be reported until it's too late.
 

dstraito

TB Fanatic
seems to me if we start getting an increase in confirmed cases, then we will get an exponential increase in "contacts". With an increase in contact it will be increasingly hard to isolate people and track them, especially with narcissistic people that don't want to stay in quarantine.

This scenario leads me to think the only way they could come close to containment would be the fema camps and a roundup of all exposed which would probably involve martial law.
 

OldArcher

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Agreed, viewing the 1918-19 Spanish Flu as a base, which was still viable when a coffin was accidentally opened when moving a cemetery near KC, MO a few years back, quarantine may be the only hope for some. Think of a TEOCAWKI scenario including The Walking Dead, Mad Max, and The Stand... Not pretty. If you have access to a farm or ranch that is self-sustained, defensible, and have the "right" people, you will be far more likely to survive, than others.

Have clear, long, fields of fire, with good, strong, fencing. If Clint Eastwood could make the movie, it should be called Stack 'em High... No exceptions... Disease is an equal opportunity killer, especially one as deadly as Ebola...

Unless God intervenes, kiss society, civilization, and TWAWKI, goodbye...

If this truly goes "viral," (sorry, couldn't resist ;-) ) Lock 'n Load...

Maranatha

OldArcher
 

Used Camels

Inactive
There are a number of major issues and trade-offs in play with group quarantines.

One very troubling thing about quarantining a group (that I have not seen addressed anywhere out there in the media) is that apparently, groups are kept in one big herd, enclosed together ... for example, the military unit in Italy just back from West Africa that is now in quarantine is together as a unit.

So, if any one person in the group was indeed carrying the virus at the onset of the quarantine, then it seems you are dooming all the others in that group to infection since they will be in close quarters as a group over the course of up to three weeks. Very bad implications if you think thru how this could turn out with any group quarantines.
 

kittyknits

Veteran Member
If one person in that group comes down with ebola say at day 12 (or any time), don't the others start a new 21-day cycle until no new cases? I'm just wondering.
 

Used Camels

Inactive
If one person in that group comes down with ebola say at day 12 (or any time), don't the others start a new 21-day cycle until no new cases? I'm just wondering.

That would make sense. And of course, that could go on till all of the people in the original group are confirmed as infected. Thing is, after the first one, how easy is it going to be to keep the rest in place and cooperative?
 

Shacknasty Shagrat

Has No Life - Lives on TB
There are a number of major issues and trade-offs in play with group quarantines.

One very troubling thing about quarantining a group (that I have not seen addressed anywhere out there in the media) is that apparently, groups are kept in one big herd, enclosed together ... for example, the military unit in Italy just back from West Africa that is now in quarantine is together as a unit.

So, if any one person in the group was indeed carrying the virus at the onset of the quarantine, then it seems you are dooming all the others in that group to infection since they will be in close quarters as a group over the course of up to three weeks. Very bad implications if you think thru how this could turn out with any group quarantines.
So the US government is herding potential exposures into compounds and the plan is to wait and see if anyone gets ill?
The Government is acting out of fear and ignorance and with a partisan political agenda.
The Italians may leave NATO if we take Ebola into Italy.
SS
 

TerryK

TB Fanatic
There are a number of major issues and trade-offs in play with group quarantines.

One very troubling thing about quarantining a group (that I have not seen addressed anywhere out there in the media) is that apparently, groups are kept in one big herd, enclosed together ... for example, the military unit in Italy just back from West Africa that is now in quarantine is together as a unit.

So, if any one person in the group was indeed carrying the virus at the onset of the quarantine, then it seems you are dooming all the others in that group to infection since they will be in close quarters as a group over the course of up to three weeks. Very bad implications if you think thru how this could turn out with any group quarantines.

Don't know what the barracks are like in Italy, but most of the military barracks I have seen, with the exception of boot camp, were semi private or private rooms, with common lounges.
I can not imagine the Italians not being very pissed about this whole idea.

I do think that old military barracks on military bases are the ideal way to quarantine people and even provide a better isolation and monitoring capability than just sending them home and letting them monitor themselves.
 

ejagno

Veteran Member
As many of you recall there were a lot of FEMA measures taken to preposition shelf stable food, shelter and necessities to multiple "centralized" regions for a few years after the Katrina/Rita/Ike/Gustav government fiasco's. It was at that time that discussions and maps had surfaced regarding parameter rings. This is also when census takers where losing their minds and jail time was being threatened for those that did not participate. Now think about this carefully because this actually would make more sense than anything else I've seen lately. Let's assume that the food, shelter, water and necessities were based on those actual number of residents in any given area.

Think of these rings as a blast radius where the people within this central area will undoubtedly be infected/contagious, the next would be a neighborhood whereas these people would be isolated as having been exposed but have no symptoms, the next parameter ring are those in that city, the next would be the parish/county and lastly the state. No one is ever allowed to cross those parameter rings until the entire crises is over. There were only enough food, water, shelter and necessities prepositioned for this number of people and without identification you won't be returning to your home. As the saying goes, "it's easier to contain a few than to move the masses" so by doing this the infection would be contained and the masses will be on lock down instead of moved.

This is nothing but a guess on my part and remembering how weird we thought it was several years ago when all of this prepositioning of supplies was taking place. Food for thought! JMHO
 

Used Camels

Inactive
I don't see a good solution at all.

Whether we're talking military unit quarantines or airline passenger mass quarantines or school class quarantines or church congregation quarantines (the list goes on and on), it's going to be a pretty much unworkable situation for most any of those situations. Not to mention grossly inhumane when you think about a situation where perhaps someone in the group is indeed infected and you are forcing everyone else to be intimately exposed over a long period of time.

We can't even get educated, knowledgeable individuals to comfortably stay in their own homes by themselves for any length of time.
 

OldArcher

Has No Life - Lives on TB
So the US government is herding potential exposures into compounds and the plan is to wait and see if anyone gets ill?
The Government is acting out of fear and ignorance and with a partisan political agenda.
The Italians may leave NATO if we take Ebola into Italy.
SS

The way Satan's Meat Puppet is going, we won't have any allies, before long...

To quote someone wise here on TB2K, Merde!

Maranatha

OldArcher
 

VesperSparrow

Goin' where the lonely go
Just waiting on a bunch of gun owners to mysteriously contact a "fever"...then get swished off to some hospital camp somewhere....and all...ALL of their household goods (guns) are destroyed stolen.....TPTB WILL come up with a way to disarm you me and it'll probably start right after the Ferguson chaos gets going deep...
 

Meemur

Voice on the Prairie / FJB!
As many of you recall there were a lot of FEMA measures taken to preposition shelf stable food, shelter and necessities to multiple "centralized" regions for a few years after the Katrina/Rita/Ike/Gustav government fiasco's. It was at that time that discussions and maps had surfaced regarding parameter rings.

Wow!

I think you're on to something.
 
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