OP-ED Who will buy?
- Thread starter Doomer Doug
- Start date
Sounds like you have a huge case of normalcy bias. Ask yourself how you would have done going into the Great Depression. Maybe okay, at first.
We have different opinions as to where the economy is headed.
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intothatgoodnight
. . .
The "rich" can afford several get-away destinations, nationally and internationally - and, for extended periods of time. They also have their own airplanes/yachts and private transportation systems, so can skirt commercial flying/other travel restrictions, as it were - just ask Epstein and his many national/international mover-shaker cronies.I was perusing the Internet when I came upon an article that pointed out something that I was chewing on for a while. Assuming we have a V, or L, or Q shaped recovery, exactly who will be this economic savior?
Will it be the 10% of the rich who have 90% of the wealth, or whatever? They won't be going on cruises now that all ships are docked till October. So, there goes an entire industry. How many rich, OLD people are going to go to a movie theater, or on a travel trip, and the list goes on. How many of them will say, in relation to an airplane, or an Amtrak train or visiting Yosemite, well, been there done that? They got the time, and they got the money, since they also own the vast amount of stock, but they may not CARE anymore.
Whence, praytell will the economic recovery come from under those conditions?
In my own case, not being richit is academic. On the other hand, I did have some plans for some trips around the Pacific Northwest that I have shelved. I seriously doubt I will ever get back to Germany and visit my old stomping grounds for example. Multiply that by millions and you get my point. What about the dog walkers and bartenders and baristias?
The "rich" can ALSO afford/access whatever medical therapies and treatments necessary, to keep themselves healthy and functional.
intothegoodnight
20Gauge
TB Fanatic
It is amazing how easy it is to move around if you have a private jet. Banking works everywhere, so there is no way the AOC plan will ever work.
Unless they simply seize the companies physical locations and run them.
So there is no way to get that much money from the Billionaires......
Unless they simply seize the companies physical locations and run them.
So there is no way to get that much money from the Billionaires......
intothatgoodnight
. . .
It is not just regulations and "politics" that are hamstringing many businesses and corporations - it is their insurance carriers that are quietly putting the squeeze on what businesses and corporation may, and may not, do - none of the insurance carriers wish to be hanging out in the wind because some COVID-19 "victim" (or family of) successfully SUES for allegedly acquiring their COVID-10 virus infection while (willingly) patronizing a business establishment/service - would be ALL downhill for the insurance liability carriers, worldwide, from that point, onward - they simply cannot allow this to happen - due to the international scope of this pandemic, such a lawsuit award/success would essentially mean that insurance companies would have an unlimited liability, which would quickly see the closing/bankruptcy of much/most of the liability insurance industry, worldwide.
intothegoodnight
As I see it the only thing that will change the way people operate is an old style world war ... drafting both genders. And while there may be a world war at some point down the road (or not so far down the road), there won't be an old-style world war because the art of war itself has changed. There will be casualties but not enough of them. Old-style was strategy and theory played out on a chessboard of people. Today we have theory and only so-so strategy played out on a computer generated battle plan that involves targeted bombs avoiding civilians as much as possible. Shock and awe is more about appearances than it is about blowing people up. It is about creating nasty bioweapons that don't kill so much as disable while leaving working infrastructure in place and slaves that know how to run it for their overlords.
Until we have something with more blood and guts and oh-me-gawds people will not change, especially not spending for their creature comforts.
That's not normalcy bias. That's reality bias.
True. But most of the lawyers and insurance carriers are getting into the covid game because of the political mandates. It sucks. And the legal precedent will be set because the government set the damn bar where they did instead of forcing people to use some sense and courage.
Stop the commie/socialist talk. Not everyone that is "wealthy" by today's standards drive fancy cars, fly around in private jets, own yachts, own islands, etc. The 1% start at about $250,000/year and that's not hard at all to meet for a two income family. The trick is moderating the taxes on that 250K+ to keep from having to pay for all the crybabies and tit-suckers in this country and beyond.
It is no crime to be wealthy, rich, or any other name you want to hang on it. And frankly it is no ones business how someone spends their personal wealth. And if they are using legal means to avoid asshat mandates more power to them. I'm glad the wealthy are fleeing NYC. I hope they flee Portland, LA, Washington, etc. If you take the risk and make the money, then spend it your way. I say what needs to happen is the crybabies and tit-suckers need to start paying their own way.
intothatgoodnight
. . .
Disney has huge overheads with regards to their park properties that are sitting idle and not generating revenue (local and state tax revenues, employee liabilities/benefit packages/severances/other, accumulating delayed maintenances, utilities, liability and operating insurances, etc.)
Also, every one of their now laid-off park and associated employees/contractors (hotel and eatery staffs, maintenance folks of several ilks, creatives, other park employees/contractors that the visitors never see), as well as the second-tier suppliers of goods and services to Disney parks who now may have essentially lost their portion of the Disney park business accounts (food, hotel services, parts/paints/outside maintenance contractors/engineering firms, several others) are solidly impacting the surrounding jurisdictions economically - state and local.
intothegoodnight
intothatgoodnight
. . .
Kathy - loosen up a bit - there is a class of individuals - nationally and internationally - who fit within the economic description/wherewithal and lifestyle/choices that I noted. I am not endorsing, nor discussing communists and socialists. Climb down, already.
Not all of "the wealthy" are of an amoral and anti-human nature - they have the economic means to exercise choices that the rest of us simply cannot consider - have worked with more than a few in a past lifetime - they think differently, have a point of reference not visible to J6P, and can ride out a worldwide economic crisis with ease - generally speaking.
intothegoodnight
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Just read in business news that Disney is making money because their streaming service is working hand over fist. Most Disney employees are seasonal and don't get bennies. Same for all of the other theme parks in FL. You don't even get them if you are part time. You have to be listed as a full time employee before you qualify. That's been true for at least three decades. I worked Busch Gardens in Tampa my first couple of years out of high school. Someone had to die before anyone new could get full time status. Still that way.
Disney has invested in a lot of the retirement communities that now surround Disney World in Orlando. They'll keep the economy going for a while. Not permanently but for a while.
Disney is replacing its "A Bug's Life" areas with a park based on the Marvel franchise. It is slated to do better than Star Wars land or whatever the heck they are calling it.
The contractors that normally serve Disney (at least here in Florida) have switched over to servicing the construction trades. We are booming here in Florida. Basically if you want to work you can find something. Most people were simply making more on unemployment than they were regular wage.
It is more complicated than people are giving it credit for being. On the other hand there are some factors that are simple as well.
intothatgoodnight
. . .
These "top billionaires" are not going to sit quietly for such a shearing by a complete communist moron, either. More than a few of these wealthy folks know how to "play for keeps."
Count on it.
AOC would paint a glowing neon target on her back, should she actually attempt such a political move. However, rhetoric to this effect sells well to the electorate, don't you know . . . the wealthy folks understand this, too.
intothegoodnight
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I posted this in jest.
But the part about "AOC would paint a glowing neon target on her back" sounds pretty good to me.
twobarkingdogs
Veteran Member
Income does not necessarily translate to wealth. But due to the tax code it was the easiest thing to tax at the time, and still is. The truely wealthy don't actually need a high income to support themselves as most of their assets like their homes are paid for. That is why the CEO of a high flying startup which has been around for a decade of so can get buy with only paying themselves a single dollar as an annual salary, they don't need the income.
Its the middle of the income levels, the $100k to 1 million who are the easiest to tax. They make up the numbers of society. The one third or so of the population. They are rich but not truely wealthy. And most of their richness is due to their income which again is easy to tax. Look at athletes and tv/movie stars. They make hundreds of thousands to multi-millions a year but own few assets of any value. So again easy to tax. But then you have the Rockefellers who own a boatload of assets but they are so spread out between different corporations that even they may not know how much they are worth.
The trick is to own a diverse set of assets yet have a minimal amount of income.
tbd
ivantherussian03
Veteran Member
The American economy always comes back.
jward
passin' thru
I've not given the issue much thought, beyond reading this thread, but assume that with the push to bring things back home that the economy will indeed come back, as soon as it's given a chance to do so.
The adjustment looks more like an industrial revolution situation calling for adaptation, but as always people will be hustling to see how to capitalize in the new normal and that creates jobs that trickle down.
The adjustment looks more like an industrial revolution situation calling for adaptation, but as always people will be hustling to see how to capitalize in the new normal and that creates jobs that trickle down.
20Gauge
TB Fanatic
Exactly!!
For example:
a) An employee works hard and generates $100k in family income. That family is taxed at 22% (MFJ) and pays an additional 7.65% in medicare / etc. For a total tax rate of 29.65%.
note: for example purposes, no deductions or state income taxes are noted.
b) A owner of a business has assets that are sold for a $100k profit. That person pays 15%
Granted there are a 101 ways to complicate this, but in general it is far far more profitable and easy to tax income than it is the people who actually generate wealth.
Owning a business is the best way to wealth in this country. This has been known since our inception. Working for others can be a route to wealth, but seldom is.
Ravekid
Veteran Member
It isn't hard to meet? You do realize that only about 8% of households make over $200K/year? If it wasn't hard to make $250K/year, then wouldn't it stand to reason most people would do just that?
Tech jobs basically replaced the UAW jobs, but the problem was that a large number of willing workers now aren't able to obtain certain jobs, because the knowledge and personality needed for IT is drastically different than that of doing the same task over and over on the production line. Also, these jobs were redistributed to other areas. The replaced rust belt jobs with IT jobs went to Seattle and San Francisco at first, then the tech industry expanded to other urban centers over the years.
Here in the lower Midwest, entry level IT jobs (programming for sure) start at around $55K, but one can easily climb to closer to $70K with a few years expiernece. That is likely about it unless one jumps into some sort of leadership or management type role. Those jobs then pay anywhere from $90K-$150K/year. Unless one becomes some sort of VP of anything (private, higher ed, not-for-profit) anything over $150K/yr. is unlikely. Two upper middle management, non-executive positions, is likely looking at topping off wage wise at around $100K/year each on average. It is very rare that a household would have a $200K/year income in this area. Most households in this area are likely around $100K-$150K and even that might be high.
Ravekid
Veteran Member
The tax rate you posted is only partially correct. They are actually taxed at 10%, 12%, and 22%. To just state the 22% rate makes it sound like all $100K is taxed at 22%, when only the amount from $80,251 to $100,000 is taxed at that rate.
Firebird
Has No Life - Lives on TB
We canceled our trip to Prague, just didn't want to fool with flying during Corona, didn't want the hassle. Here in Florida, things are still hopping, my Airbnb's are booked solid, and my work is through the roof!
Wife and I plan on purchasing a travel trailer and just enjoying some localized travel and camping for now.
Wife and I plan on purchasing a travel trailer and just enjoying some localized travel and camping for now.
correct and this is being at the top of the corona crap in terms of numbers. Can you imagine what our economy would be if they would get out of the way and let the economy roll?
The dealer for utility trailers in the next town over, sold out of all his stock, has back orders, and his grown sons are busy selling the same in another larger city about an hour away. He seems kinda dumbfounded about all the sudden business. I tried to explain it to him - not sure if he is playing dumb (avoiding discussing anything remotely political with customers - understandable), or if he just doesn't get it.
I think she is being told to cool it and she may have tried to push back and she's finding out she and Da Squad aren't nearly as important as they think ... Obama ignores her and she's not getting a piece of the Democratic Convention pie thus far.