CRIME When do you kill them?

Marie

Veteran Member
Unfortunately with what is going on if the spawns of satan get their way their will be no laws. This time in history local and state laws will be extinct.
If you are in a place where you are threatened it is you and them. No one else is going to come rolling in to save individuals ,families or property. Incarceration will be the last thing on my mind if my family's life is on the line.
 

Doc1

Has No Life - Lives on TB
I'm not looking to argue with anyone here, but I have noted several folks in this thread talking about what they "feel" or what they think is "right." Sometimes that can land your butt in prison.

My point in creating this thread is not to argue the relative merits of good and bad, but only to suggest that you study the laws of your state. For example, in a defensive context, what's legal in Mississippi is not always legal in the adjacent state of Alabama. Also, there are countless fine nuances that you should be aware of. As an example, in Mississippi it may not be technically legal to shoot someone stealing property out of your front yard (though this will depend on specific circumstances). On the other hand, in an interview, a Mississippi DA recently observed that he wasn't aware of any grand jury ever handing down an indictment for anyone doing so. Again, nuances.

As long as we have a semblance of law in this country - and the possibility of you doing hard time for the erroneous use of your firearm - it's important to know the law(s).

Best
Doc
 

Jeff B.

Don’t let the Piss Ants get you down…
Unfortunately with what is going on if the spawns of satan get their way their will be no laws. This time in history local and state laws will be extinct.
If you are in a place where you are threatened it is you and them. No one else is going to come rolling in to save individuals ,families or property. Incarceration will be the last thing on my mind if my family's life is on the line.

As in many things, "be careful what you wish for...".

A situation of general chaos may initially seem like a heaven sent opportunity for the evil doers, but may instead release those who are and have been "rule followers". In a very ugly way.

Jeff B.
 

Faroe

Un-spun
I'm not looking to argue with anyone here, but I have noted several folks in this thread talking about what they "feel" or what they think is "right." Sometimes that can land your butt in prison.

My point in creating this thread is not to argue the relative merits of good and bad, but only to suggest that you study the laws of your state. For example, in a defensive context, what's legal in Mississippi is not always legal in the adjacent state of Alabama. Also, there are countless fine nuances that you should be aware of. As an example, in Mississippi it may not be technically legal to shoot someone stealing property out of your front yard (though this will depend on specific circumstances). On the other hand, in an interview, a Mississippi DA recently observed that he wasn't aware of any grand jury ever handing down an indictment for anyone doing so. Again, nuances.

As long as we have a semblance of law in this country - and the possibility of you doing hard time for the erroneous use of your firearm - it's important to know the law(s).

Best
Doc

Doc1, 99% of the time, you are the voice of reason. I don't want to argue either, but the world is changing fast. Yeah, shoot someone next week in a legally "bad shoot," and you will have massive legal/financial problems. Well, if this thing continues rolling, many of us will end up ruined and in jail for far less! (Quite possibly for stuff we've already done/said, and can't change now.) I don't care about next week, I care about six months, a year... ten years from now. What's coming is BAD.
 

EMICT

Veteran Member
Like I told my son last night, who is a 25 y/o very conservative young man; Be careful what you discuss with friends over electronic media. If discussions need to take place with your like minded friends, do so in person and leave your phones at home, and for GOD's sake, don't discuss things on FB, Forums, Twitter, SnapChat, et. al. if it deals with any 'resistance or life endangering' discussions.
 

Milkweed Host

Veteran Member
Yeah, you're dead, probably in jail. If I have to take someone out....ain't no 911 gonna be called. You've been around; S. S. S.
Actually, I have been around the block a few times and know what works and where to apply it. Unless you live out in the sticks, completely out of touch with the rest of the world, someone will call in gunshots or there will be witnesses, even cameras. You should make plans on someone calling 911 if you shoot someone. Also, keep in mind most people don't automatically die when shot, it all depends? Have you ever looked into the face of people right after they've been shot?
My point is, be very careful in choosing you words when talking to police.

Now you'd be an easy and fun case to work if you shot someone.

You really do need to start thinking before you start writing...........K?????
 
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Cardinal

Chickministrator
_______________
Actually, I have been around the block a few times and know what works and where to apply it. Unless you live out in the sticks, completely out of touch with the rest of the world, someone will call in gunshots or there will be witnesses, even cameras. You should make plans on someone calling 911 if you shoot someone. Also, keep in mind most people don't automatically die when shot, it all depends? Have you ever looked into the face of people right after they've been shot?
My point is, be very careful in choosing you words when talking to police.

Now you'd be an easy and fun case to work if you shot someone.

You really do need to start thinking before you start writing...........K?????
BINGO! Also the folks who keep advocating SSS, have you really thought that out?
Unless said bad guy is all alone (and they aren't, they travel in packs) there are gonna be witnesses.
Even if it is your own neighbors, and one of them will call the police.
There isn't gonna be any opportunity for S-S-S.
 

subnet

Boot
BINGO! Also the folks who keep advocating SSS, have you really thought that out?
Unless said bad guy is all alone (and they aren't, they travel in packs) there are gonna be witnesses.
Even if it is your own neighbors, and one of them will call the police.
There isn't gonna be any opportunity for S-S-S.
All carrying cameras that are rolling, most likely trying to set someone up
 

fish hook

Deceased
When they cross onto MY PROPERTY directly threatening me and mine.....that's when the fecal material hits the fan, OR, anytime I receive unmistakable direct threats to my family or property. Bullets hitting or coming near my home and family. If I see someone approaching my home with a Molotov Cocktail in their hands, then it's totally game on. No mercy - no quarter!

After which I will set up graphic warnings which everyone will understand no matter how stupid they might be.

EXAMPLE:
350px-Smirtouille_Heads_on_Spikes.png
The last thing i would want to do is take the life of another.That being said, when they cross my gate with intent to rob,burn or kill,then they are mine.As far as the law goes,i have a couple of nice objects that i can drop,just in case they failed to bring their own.Hey............it works for the cops often enough.
 

Gadsden

Contributing Member
Florida Statutes seem pretty generous:

776.012 Use or threatened use of force in defense of person.—
(1) A person is justified in using or threatening to use force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. A person who uses or threatens to use force in accordance with this subsection does not have a duty to retreat before using or threatening to use such force.
(2) A person is justified in using or threatening to use deadly force if he or she reasonably believes that using or threatening to use such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony. A person who uses or threatens to use deadly force in accordance with this subsection does not have a duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground if the person using or threatening to use the deadly force is not engaged in a criminal activity and is in a place where he or she has a right to be.
History.—s. 13, ch. 74-383; s. 1188, ch. 97-102; s. 2, ch. 2005-27; s. 3, ch. 2014-195.
776.013 Home protection; use or threatened use of deadly force; presumption of fear of death or great bodily harm.—
(1) A person who is in a dwelling or residence in which the person has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and use or threaten to use:
(a) Nondeadly force against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force; or
(b) Deadly force if he or she reasonably believes that using or threatening to use such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony.
(2) A person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using or threatening to use defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if:
(a) The person against whom the defensive force was used or threatened was in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered, a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against that person’s will from the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle; and
(b) The person who uses or threatens to use defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred.
(3) The presumption set forth in subsection (2) does not apply if:
(a) The person against whom the defensive force is used or threatened has the right to be in or is a lawful resident of the dwelling, residence, or vehicle, such as an owner, lessee, or titleholder, and there is not an injunction for protection from domestic violence or a written pretrial supervision order of no contact against that person; or
(b) The person or persons sought to be removed is a child or grandchild, or is otherwise in the lawful custody or under the lawful guardianship of, the person against whom the defensive force is used or threatened; or
(c) The person who uses or threatens to use defensive force is engaged in a criminal activity or is using the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle to further a criminal activity; or
(d) The person against whom the defensive force is used or threatened is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who enters or attempts to enter a dwelling, residence, or vehicle in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using or threatening to use force knew or reasonably should have known that the person entering or attempting to enter was a law enforcement officer.
(4) A person who unlawfully and by force enters or attempts to enter a person’s dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle is presumed to be doing so with the intent to commit an unlawful act involving force or violence.
(5) As used in this section, the term:
(a) “Dwelling” means a building or conveyance of any kind, including any attached porch, whether the building or conveyance is temporary or permanent, mobile or immobile, which has a roof over it, including a tent, and is designed to be occupied by people lodging therein at night.
(b) “Residence” means a dwelling in which a person resides either temporarily or permanently or is visiting as an invited guest.
(c) “Vehicle” means a conveyance of any kind, whether or not motorized, which is designed to transport people or property.
History.—s. 1, ch. 2005-27; s. 4, ch. 2014-195; s. 1, ch. 2017-77.
776.031 Use or threatened use of force in defense of property.—
(1) A person is justified in using or threatening to use force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to prevent or terminate the other’s trespass on, or other tortious or criminal interference with, either real property other than a dwelling or personal property, lawfully in his or her possession or in the possession of another who is a member of his or her immediate family or household or of a person whose property he or she has a legal duty to protect. A person who uses or threatens to use force in accordance with this subsection does not have a duty to retreat before using or threatening to use such force.
(2) A person is justified in using or threatening to use deadly force only if he or she reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony. A person who uses or threatens to use deadly force in accordance with this subsection does not have a duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground if the person using or threatening to use the deadly force is not engaged in a criminal activity and is in a place where he or she has a right to be.
History.—s. 13, ch. 74-383; s. 1189, ch. 97-102; s. 3, ch. 2005-27; s. 5, ch. 2014-195.
776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use or threatened use of force.—
(1) A person who uses or threatens to use force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in such conduct and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use or threatened use of such force by the person, personal representative, or heirs of the person against whom the force was used or threatened, unless the person against whom force was used or threatened is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using or threatening to use force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.
(2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use or threatened use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using or threatening to use force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used or threatened was unlawful.
(3) The court shall award reasonable attorney’s fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by the defendant in defense of any civil action brought by a plaintiff if the court finds that the defendant is immune from prosecution as provided in subsection (1).
(4) In a criminal prosecution, once a prima facie claim of self-defense immunity from criminal prosecution has been raised by the defendant at a pretrial immunity hearing, the burden of proof by clear and convincing evidence is on the party seeking to overcome the immunity from criminal prosecution provided in subsection (1).
History.—s. 4, ch. 2005-27; s. 6, ch. 2014-195; s. 1, ch. 2017-72.
 
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Donald Shimoda

In Absentia
Make sure you don't bury their Obama phone with them...


Howdy, Folks!

Seriously, this is actually part of it.

For me, the question isn't "When do you kill them," but "what do you do with the remains?"

Yeah, I know - S.S.S.

For a lot of reasons, that may not immediately be practical or desirable.

Now, where I live - there's plenty of places I could carry remains to where in about a week, all that will be left will be bone.

Much easier to S.S.S. after that.

Before that stage, however - there's getting rid of all the electronics and other identifying materials. There's working with the remains like they're toxic waste (which they very may well be, depending on what they might be infected with or what sort of parasites might be physically attached).

Not insurmountable, but these things need to be taken into account and planned on beforehand.

Don't have a plan? Time to get one.

Peace and Love,

Donald Shimoda
 

Tristan

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Howdy, Folks!

Seriously, this is actually part of it.

For me, the question isn't "When do you kill them," but "what do you do with the remains?"

Yeah, I know - S.S.S.

For a lot of reasons, that may not immediately be practical or desirable.

Now, where I live - there's plenty of places I could carry remains to where in about a week, all that will be left will be bone.

Much easier to S.S.S. after that.

Before that stage, however - there's getting rid of all the electronics and other identifying materials. There's working with the remains like they're toxic waste (which they very may well be, depending on what they might be infected with or what sort of parasites might be physically attached).

Not insurmountable, but these things need to be taken into account and planned on beforehand.

Don't have a plan? Time to get one.

Peace and Love,

Donald Shimoda


Damn, when "Peace and Love" Donald Shimoda starts contemplating things like this in depth...

Just Damn.
 

Cardinal

Chickministrator
_______________
Distance, concealment and cover is always your friend.
But not always possible. In most situations, SSS is simply not going to be an option.
Unless you are hiking the Appalachian Trail alone. At night.
 

Millwright

Knuckle Dragger
_______________
But not always possible. In most situations, SSS is simply not going to be an option.
Unless you are hiking the Appalachian Trail alone. At night.

HEH

My mom was walking down the driveway this morning, her dog birdied up on a big boar laying in the mud near the driveway.

She shot at it with her 38.

I never heard a thing from up there.

Now she's carrying a Redhawk in 41mag. :lol:

Going to walk through the woods later, when it cools off...with a riot gun full of buckshot.
 

Cardinal

Chickministrator
_______________
HEH

My mom was walking down the driveway this morning, her dog birdied up on a big boar laying in the mud near the driveway.

She shot at it with her 38.

I never heard a thing from up there.

Now she's carrying a Redhawk in 41mag. :lol:

Going to walk through the woods later, when it cools off...with a riot gun full of buckshot.
She managed to off a full grown boar with a .38?
 

Donald Shimoda

In Absentia
Damn, when "Peace and Love" Donald Shimoda starts contemplating things like this in depth...

Just Damn.

"He who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one." Attributed to being said by someone a whole lot more "Peace and Love" than I am.

Besides - as the book says, "nobody dies without their consent."
 

Voortrekker

Veteran Member
There is a markedly difference between facing a casual criminal engaged in felonious activities and revolutionaries engaged in insurrection and insurgencies. A mob engaged in unprovoked looting and violence is an act of rebellion and insurrection.

The above post featuring written law is splitting hairs and cuckulating. When do you shoot Anit-Fa? before he shoots you. When will Anti-Fa shoot you? When it is to his advantage. That's all I need to know and the government MUST protect me from a declared terrorist organization and must protect me from civil and criminal prosecutions when I protect myself from those threats because the police have no obligation to protect me or the public.
 

Voortrekker

Veteran Member
"He who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one." Attributed to being said by someone a whole lot more "Peace and Love" than I am.

Besides - as the book says, "nobody dies without their consent."
What about "if a man comes to kill you, rise up early and meet him at your gate."??
How about, "if a man comes to kill you, leave a day early and meet him at his gate."??
 

Doomer Doug

TB Fanatic
In Oregon it is "imminent threat of grievous bodily harm, or death," that sanctions the use of lethal force. Of course, unless you are at home it requires a concealed weapon permit to carry a loaded handgun in Oregon generally, and Portland and Multnomah County specifically. Granted you will be dealing with a MARXIST DEMOCRATIC JURY it is hopeless. You may also have to deal with protected class violent trash, who will be sanctioned by the Marxist Democrats at all levels of society, even the so called law enforcement, district attorney et . Multnomah County just elected a DA who refuses to work with the Federales, wants to abolish ICE and likely is performing knee groveling big time. Still, you are dealing with scum in Portland, so take a few out and see what happens.
 

Creedmoor

Tempus Fugit
Anyone who CCW's without a formal class in their shoot/don't shoot laws (and has never been in the .mil or LE) is a fool.
Hmmm. Well, that includes EVERY CCW holder in WA state. Pretty sure there are other states with similar laws. Didn’t you used to live in the PNW? Thought you might have been aware of this.
 

NCGirl

Veteran Member
Like I told my son last night, who is a 25 y/o very conservative young man; Be careful what you discuss with friends over electronic media. If discussions need to take place with your like minded friends, do so in person and leave your phones at home, and for GOD's sake, don't discuss things on FB, Forums, Twitter, SnapChat, et. al. if it deals with any 'resistance or life endangering' discussions.


Yes, please have them no where near you. Just turned off is NOT enough
 

jward

passin' thru
I know my laws, it was one of the first, and most useful bits of advice given me.
...once upon a time I would shoot to kill only in defense of children, or those for whom I was responsible.
now I view putting rabid dogs down the responsibility of every adult, and should my perception of the force
facing me, and my understanding of the law coincide such that I think lethal force is warranted, it will be.

I would try to mitigate any such force being meted out inside my home, cause this is a sacred, safe space not to be defiled... and I am not crazy bout moppin' on my hands n knees on a good day.:(
 

CaryC

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Not all states require a class or test.
While Dennis mentioned taking the class, it doesn't have to be in conjunction with a permit. Anyone can just take the class for educational purposes alone. I would recommend doing that.

And your statement is also true. Here in MS you can CCW without a permit, or class. However, if you go out of state, it's a different story, and if you don't have a permit, you'd better take it off.
 

Dennis Olson

Chief Curmudgeon
_______________
Hmmm. Well, that includes. Pretty sure there are other states with similar laws. Didn’t you used to live in the PNW? Thought you might have been aware of this.
Then “EVERY CCW holder in WA state” has the responsibility of taking a class on their own. Potentially ending a life isn’t something one should take lightly.
 

Millwright

Knuckle Dragger
_______________
While Dennis mentioned taking the class, it doesn't have to be in conjunction with a permit. Anyone can just take the class for educational purposes alone. I would recommend doing that.

And your statement is also true. Here in MS you can CCW without a permit, or class. However, if you go out of state, it's a different story, and if you don't have a permit, you'd better take it off.

Exactly why I will maintain mine.

Presenting a CCL card to LEOs gives them assurance that you have been vetted to a higher degree than most.

Even in states where it isn't required to notify them, I do.

It's a courtesy that is appreciated.
 

Doc1

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Anyone who CCW's without a formal class in their shoot/don't shoot laws (and has never been in the .mil or LE) is a fool.


Dennis, that's just one small reason I took the CCW class. I was basically blackmailed into it. I wanted DW to take the class, but she wouldn't go unless I went through it with her. Wimmen! Frankly, I didn't learn much if anything new in the class, but if I'm ever involved in a deadly force incident, it might help in later court proceedings for my attorney to be able to show that I was "responsible" and actually took a class. As with anything legal, sometimes the little things can count for a great deal.

Best
Doc
 

CaryC

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Dennis, that's just one small reason I took the CCW class. I was basically blackmailed into it. I wanted DW to take the class, but she wouldn't go unless I went through it with her. Wimmen! Frankly, I didn't learn much if anything new in the class, but if I'm ever involved in a deadly force incident, it might help in later court proceedings for my attorney to be able to show that I was "responsible" and actually took a class. As with anything legal, sometimes the little things can count for a great deal.

Best
Doc
Learned very little about firearm safety during the class, but the laws were a different animal all together.

Some of the prevention methods were new, and some were common sense.

I also took the class for a permit, even though MS had opened up to non-permit carry. For the education, and permit to carry in other states.

BTW for information purposes: There are two types of classes. 1) to get you in and out for the money and certificate, lasts maybe 4 hours. 2) the bona fide one that lasts 10 hours. Do the ten hour, it's well worth it.

Secondary to that is a tactical class. Which is not needed for a permit, but does give some training in pressure situations.

What is training for a pressure situation?

It's where you stand around at the range, and the instructor acts like a real person and tells you what to do, and in what order. Then he puts you on the line, and says start. And the instructor turns into a escaped maniac from outer space, like your old drill sergeant, screaming and yelling, spitting all over you, and expects you to execute what he told you to do when he was normal.
 
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