OP-ED What's Scarier Than a Strong China? A Weak China

Housecarl

On TB every waking moment
Hummm......

For links see article source.....
Posted for fair use.....
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slat...er_than_a_strong_china_a_weak_china_nbsp.html

Aug. 24 2015 2:45 PM

What’s Scarier Than a Strong China? A Weak China.

By Joshua Keating
Comments 29

China’s “black Monday,” the Shanghai Composite’s largest fall since 2007, is being felt around the world today—from a tumble in the Dow Jones, to a drop in oil prices, to an alarming crash of the South African rand—as investors weigh fears that the Chinese economic downturn may be worse than originally feared.

All of this highlights the paradox of international competition in an era of economic interdependence: Americans may be alarmed by Beijing’s economic and political rise and know-nothing, populist presidential candidates can count on easy applause for pledges to “beat China,” but when China actually does take a tumble, Americans feel it in their pocketbooks and portfolios. China’s economy has proved its critics wrong before, but if the country is in for a prolonged downturn, Americans—and everyone else, for that matter—have good reason to worry.

The latest economic distress is happening at the same time as heightened geopolitical tensions involving Beijing. The U.S. is becoming increasingly assertive in challenging China’s activities in the South China Sea, which have alarmed its southern neighbors. And China has been ramping up its World War II-themed patriotic displays in what seems like an attempt to needle Japan’s nationalist Prime Minister Shinzo Abe at a time when he’s pushing changes to his own country’s pacifist World War II-era constitution. Escalating tensions on the Korean Peninsula also threaten to drive a wedge between South Korea and China, which is the South’s largest trading partner but also the North’s only significant ally.

These ongoing tensions are worrying enough in normal times, but are even more dangerous when China’s leaders feel insecure and challenged by domestic enemies. Which is how they must feel right now. The economic turmoil of the past few weeks has dealt a blow to the image of China’s leaders as competent stewards of the country’s economic rise, and President Xi Jinping looks powerless in the face of economic forces. Reports are already emerging about grumbling within senior ranks of the Communist Party over whether Xi and his advisers are up to the task of managing China’s next economic transition. If Xi feels threatened by a lack of support at home, he could ramp up his purge of potential rivals.

The bigger fear if there’s a long-turn economic downturn is social instability. Under the country’s unspoken post-Tiananmen grand bargain, China’s population hasn’t significantly challenged the autocratic one-party state, so long as the party continues to deliver economic progress and increasing prosperity. This is not to say that Chinese society is entirely harmonious—while the authorities have been adept at managing dissent, the country still sees tens of thousands of “mass incidents” every year, sparked by causes ranging from labor disputes, to environmental degradation, to land seizures. But thanks to steady growth, public anger over economic conditions hasn’t been a major problem over the last 25 years. It could be soon: Chinese investors, who were strongly encouraged by the state-run media to put money in the market during the country’s boom, are already venting their anger online.

In this context, an international conflict stoking nationalist sentiment, and taking heat away from the country’s senior leaders, could look awfully appealing to Xi and his team. The Chinese government has a somewhat complex history with nationalism: Nationalist protests, like the anti-Japanese demonstrations that took place throughout China, occasionally becoming violent in 2012, are covered in the Chinese media and are a rare form of “anti-government” dissent tolerated by the authorities. (They’re “anti-government” to the extent that they want the government to be more assertive in challenging Japan or another foreign target.) Chinese nationalism benefits the state to a certain extent, but public opinion is probably more hawkish than that of the elites when it comes to military confrontation. If regional tensions with either Japan or southern neighbors like Vietnam or the Philippines rise at a time of economic distress, Xi’s government will have even more incentive to allow the public to vent its anger at a foreign target, as well as more incentive to stoke that anger by ramping up tensions.

Xi certainly wouldn’t be the first leader to use nationalism and international tensions to deflect attention from domestic economic distress: Just look at Russia. Unfortunately, the risks of a major conflict drawing in multiple countries, including possibly the United States, are greater in East Asia than in Eastern Europe.

So, as alarming as many Americans may have found China’s rise to global power, a world with a China that feels uncertain and threatened is a lot more dangerous.
 

doctor_fungcool

TB Fanatic
Hummm......

For links see article source.....
Posted for fair use.....
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slat...er_than_a_strong_china_a_weak_china_nbsp.html

Aug. 24 2015 2:45 PM

What’s Scarier Than a Strong China? A Weak China.

By Joshua Keating
Comments 29

China’s “black Monday,” the Shanghai Composite’s largest fall since 2007, is being felt around the world today—from a tumble in the Dow Jones, to a drop in oil prices, to an alarming crash of the South African rand—as investors weigh fears that the Chinese economic downturn may be worse than originally feared.

All of this highlights the paradox of international competition in an era of economic interdependence: Americans may be alarmed by Beijing’s economic and political rise and know-nothing, populist presidential candidates can count on easy applause for pledges to “beat China,” but when China actually does take a tumble, Americans feel it in their pocketbooks and portfolios. China’s economy has proved its critics wrong before, but if the country is in for a prolonged downturn, Americans—and everyone else, for that matter—have good reason to worry.

The latest economic distress is happening at the same time as heightened geopolitical tensions involving Beijing. The U.S. is becoming increasingly assertive in challenging China’s activities in the South China Sea, which have alarmed its southern neighbors. And China has been ramping up its World War II-themed patriotic displays in what seems like an attempt to needle Japan’s nationalist Prime Minister Shinzo Abe at a time when he’s pushing changes to his own country’s pacifist World War II-era constitution. Escalating tensions on the Korean Peninsula also threaten to drive a wedge between South Korea and China, which is the South’s largest trading partner but also the North’s only significant ally.

These ongoing tensions are worrying enough in normal times, but are even more dangerous when China’s leaders feel insecure and challenged by domestic enemies. Which is how they must feel right now. The economic turmoil of the past few weeks has dealt a blow to the image of China’s leaders as competent stewards of the country’s economic rise, and President Xi Jinping looks powerless in the face of economic forces. Reports are already emerging about grumbling within senior ranks of the Communist Party over whether Xi and his advisers are up to the task of managing China’s next economic transition. If Xi feels threatened by a lack of support at home, he could ramp up his purge of potential rivals.

The bigger fear if there’s a long-turn economic downturn is social instability. Under the country’s unspoken post-Tiananmen grand bargain, China’s population hasn’t significantly challenged the autocratic one-party state, so long as the party continues to deliver economic progress and increasing prosperity. This is not to say that Chinese society is entirely harmonious—while the authorities have been adept at managing dissent, the country still sees tens of thousands of “mass incidents” every year, sparked by causes ranging from labor disputes, to environmental degradation, to land seizures. But thanks to steady growth, public anger over economic conditions hasn’t been a major problem over the last 25 years. It could be soon: Chinese investors, who were strongly encouraged by the state-run media to put money in the market during the country’s boom, are already venting their anger online.

In this context, an international conflict stoking nationalist sentiment, and taking heat away from the country’s senior leaders, could look awfully appealing to Xi and his team. The Chinese government has a somewhat complex history with nationalism: Nationalist protests, like the anti-Japanese demonstrations that took place throughout China, occasionally becoming violent in 2012, are covered in the Chinese media and are a rare form of “anti-government” dissent tolerated by the authorities. (They’re “anti-government” to the extent that they want the government to be more assertive in challenging Japan or another foreign target.) Chinese nationalism benefits the state to a certain extent, but public opinion is probably more hawkish than that of the elites when it comes to military confrontation. If regional tensions with either Japan or southern neighbors like Vietnam or the Philippines rise at a time of economic distress, Xi’s government will have even more incentive to allow the public to vent its anger at a foreign target, as well as more incentive to stoke that anger by ramping up tensions.

Xi certainly wouldn’t be the first leader to use nationalism and international tensions to deflect attention from domestic economic distress: Just look at Russia. Unfortunately, the risks of a major conflict drawing in multiple countries, including possibly the United States, are greater in East Asia than in Eastern Europe.

So, as alarming as many Americans may have found China’s rise to global power, a world with a China that feels uncertain and threatened is a lot more dangerous.

When the Chinese economic miracle fades, a military miracle will emerge in spades.
 

Housecarl

On TB every waking moment
When the Chinese economic miracle fades, a military miracle will emerge in spades.

Problem with the PLA at this time is its limitations in deploying forces outside of the PRC in terms of strategic air lift, sea lift and other logistical issues including all the choke points within the "first chain" of islands.

Sure they can drop a nuclear weapon anywhere on the planet, but they've got a huge operational gap between that and their conventional capabilities.

They can get assets out to a location prior to hostilities but they can't supply them after the shooting starts.

On top of that, the relationship between the PLA and the Party is problematic, between the corruption based purge that Xi is conducting and the repeated public reminders by the Party that the PLA's allegiance is to the Party first, not the Chinese people, there is definitely IMHO the potential for a repeat of the 1920s civil wars if the Party is found wanting in its handling of the economy as we've been seeing thus far.
 

Knoxville's Joker

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Problem with the PLA at this time is its limitations in deploying forces outside of the PRC in terms of strategic air lift, sea lift and other logistical issues including all the choke points within the "first chain" of islands.

Sure they can drop a nuclear weapon anywhere on the planet, but they've got a huge operational gap between that and their conventional capabilities.

They can get assets out to a location prior to hostilities but they can't supply them after the shooting starts.

On top of that, the relationship between the PLA and the Party is problematic, between the corruption based purge that Xi is conducting and the repeated public reminders by the Party that the PLA's allegiance is to the Party first, not the Chinese people, there is definitely IMHO the potential for a repeat of the 1920s civil wars if the Party is found wanting in its handling of the economy as we've been seeing thus far.

Yes and of all the irony we could end up invading china to help the people should things go south.
 

naturallysweet

Has No Life - Lives on TB
When the Chinese economic miracle fades, a military miracle will emerge in spades.

Societies with huge male over female gender imbalances are scary. Men who can never marry, and China has tens of million of them, are extremely detrimental to society unless they are wedded to the military.

China will either have the biggest and bloodiest civil war in recorded history, or they will start invading their neighbors and trigger WW3.

They have no other option.
 

Blacknarwhal

Let's Go Brandon!
All of this highlights the paradox of international competition in an era of economic interdependence: Americans may be alarmed by Beijing’s economic and political rise and know-nothing, populist presidential candidates can count on easy applause for pledges to “beat China,” but when China actually does take a tumble, Americans feel it in their pocketbooks and portfolios. China’s economy has proved its critics wrong before, but if the country is in for a prolonged downturn, Americans—and everyone else, for that matter—have good reason to worry.

Golly, I wish I knew who Slate was talking about here. They're being so gosh-darn UNCLEAR about it!
 

Housecarl

On TB every waking moment
Golly, I wish I knew who Slate was talking about here. They're being so gosh-darn UNCLEAR about it!

Yeah, I'm amazed at the level of "candor" the author let slip in his view of things.

Remember when I post something I'm not necessarily saying that I agree with everything in the article.
 

Blacknarwhal

Let's Go Brandon!
Yeah, I'm amazed at the level of "candor" the author let slip in his view of things.

Remember when I post something I'm not necessarily saying that I agree with everything in the article.

Totally aimed at Slate, sir. Totally at Slate. It's no secret I don't trust the Donald 100 percent, but if there's a nose-holding candidate to vote for he looks like the least fragrant.
 

Housecarl

On TB every waking moment
Totally aimed at Slate, sir. Totally at Slate. It's no secret I don't trust the Donald 100 percent, but if there's a nose-holding candidate to vote for he looks like the least fragrant.

No worries, I figured that was your focus, I just figured it was a good time to make that comment for new readers. As to Trump, I get where you're coming from.
 

Adino

paradigm shaper
i knew an oligarchy globalista was behind the article right here

know-nothing, populist presidential candidates can count on easy applause for pledges to “beat China,”

now, now you stupid little luddite americans, don't you know that the loss of an industrial and manufacturing base to commie country that would wipe you off the face of the planet if it could, and the decimation of the middle class, and loss of political control to unaccountable global bureaucracies and the pain it brings to your everyday life is good for you?

stupid, stupid little people
 

Be Well

may all be well
Societies with huge male over female gender imbalances are scary. Men who can never marry, and China has tens of million of them, are extremely detrimental to society unless they are wedded to the military.

China will either have the biggest and bloodiest civil war in recorded history, or they will start invading their neighbors and trigger WW3.


They have no other option.

And the imbalance will continue and get worse until they stop killing their girl babies. Those millions of lone men will cause war one way or another. Battles have been fought and women stolen since time began.
 

China Connection

TB Fanatic
We have reason to believe the unthinkable is happening to China's president

Linette Lopez

Aug. 24, 2015, 6:50 PM 975


The one thing the West has taken for granted in China is that the Chinese Communist Party is unified behind its leadership.

But now, under the pressure of an economic slowdown and a stock market in free fall, we are likely seeing the CCP fracture in a way we've never seen before.

It seems some factions within the party are turning away from President Xi Jinping behind closed doors and at high-level retreats.

This is what we know.
Not known for subtlety

Nothing that's run in China's state-run media is there by accident, and in the last few weeks the government has been sending less-than-veiled messages to power brokers, especially retired officials, within the party.

The message is simple: Back off.

"It should become a norm for officials to relinquish their power after retirement," said an editorial published earlier this month in government mouthpiece The People's Daily.

The government has the means to take down whoever it thinks isn't falling in line. Xi's regime has been engaged in a far-reaching anticorruption campaign for more than a year that many experts believe is his way of getting rid of any opposition and consolidating party power.

The People's Daily article made reference to that investigation and cited Zhou Yongkang — the country's former security czar and the highest-level official to be taken down since the days of Mao Zedong — as an example of someone who didn't know how to relinquish his power.

He'll probably have time to figure it out in jail, where the 76-year-old will likely spend the rest of his days serving a sentence for corruption.

politburo chinaREUTERS/Carlos BarriaA pedestrian walks past electronic signs displaying pictures of China's Politburo Standing Committee members at a subway station in downtown Shanghai on June 18, 2013.

Meet 'Guoping'

Then another editorial followed that openly called out people questioning China's attempt at economic reform known as "The New Normal." That was published across multiple publications, including the People's Daily.

The piece was signed by "Guoping," a pen name the government uses when it wants to get its point across.

"The New Normal" is the government's name for the inevitable slowdown that has come from China's transition from an economy based on investment to one based on consumption. It's a long-term reform play and, to many, one that's long overdue.

But it comes with major pain. Xi had prepped his people for lower growth, but no one expected the slowdown would come so hard and fast.

China marginMacquarie

Some within the party, it seems, want Xi to turn back. The editorial last week was his way of saying "absolutely not."

"The in-depth reform touches the basic issue of re-configuring the lifeblood of this enormous economy and is aimed at making it healthier," said the editorial. "The scale of the resistance is beyond what could have been imagined."

The targets of the piece include not just retired officials, but also any official whose power has been weakened in the anticorruption investigation or who is upset about the austerity of "The New Normal."

Beijing-based political commentator Zhang Lifan told the South China Morning Post that the editorial was a sign that things were "not going well" and that a recent meeting of high-level party officials in the Hebei seaside resort of Beidaihe was tumultuous.

"Obviously they did not reach any consensus at the political activities in Beidaihe. Different groups are pursuing their own ways," he said. "This is a test of the leadership's ability to execute its mission."
NOW WATCH: Markets sell off again — US equities down 10% over 5 days

Read more: http://uk.businessinsider.com/xi-jinping-faces-internal-challenge-2015-8?r=US&IR=T#ixzz3jqlpGvC6
 

Housecarl

On TB every waking moment
Gordon Chang made a comment on John Bachelor's show last night suggesting that the PRC may not exist in 18 months.
 

Blacknarwhal

Let's Go Brandon!
Gordon Chang made a comment on John Bachelor's show last night suggesting that the PRC may not exist in 18 months.

How'd it go again? They have one generation to do whatever it is they're going to do, and then it's over? Seems like that generation may be running out.
 
Top