dstraito
TB Fanatic
I thought we had more commonality and common sense on TB2K but I'm seeing a trend toward an uncomprehensible point of view.
I prefixed this thread CRISIS because I feel we are in a full blown crisis. We are at a cross roads in America and the direction we take now will determine our future from "The Sky's the Limit" to "Hello Third World Country".
I tend to be verbose so if you don't want to read a long diatribe you probably should just move along, these aren't the droids you are looking for.
WHY?
Why are corporations outsourcing jobs to foreign countries?
A Corporation is notjust the Executives. A Corporation is not just the Members of the Board. ACorporation is not just the Employees. A Corporation is not just the Shareholders. A Corporation is not just the Vendors. A Corporation is also about itscustomers who are seeking value and quality for their money they spend. Let’sjust agree that the Executives are overpaid and get that out of the way. Their salaries account for such a small percentage of the total revenue it isinsignificant.
What is a Corporation? It is a mechanism by which a company can attract investors (shareholders). Corporations could have a six month, one year and five year plan. These plans often include aggressive growth goals which require capital. The shareholder comes along and invests with the company in the expectation ofmaking a profit, that is why they let the company use their money in exchangefor a piece of paper. Stupid you say, well, we all do it for a Federal ReserveNote. Anyway if the company is successful they make a profit. Those profits could be used to provide profits to the shareholders which in turn would incent those shareholders to invest more and maybe attract additional shareholdersallowing the company to follow its goals and plans. The investor assumes risk because the company could lose money, provide no profits so the investor actually loses money making them replace that company with one they hope they can make a profit on. That profit motive is what drives business and investors.Without it you would see stagnation or businesses going out of business.
Now, to address the concept of profit. How much profit is enough? And who should decide on the amount of profit to allow? Should it be the employees? Should it be the shareholders? Should it be outsiders or lawmakers who know what is best? And for the outsider making profit assumptions, are they taking into account the companies one and five year plans to allow for the growth and expansion?
Should the profits arbitrarily be reduced in order to pay the employees more money because that would be FAIR? That loss of profitpotential might just be the difference between and expansion and a contractionand why should the employees get more than the market value of their skill set. If they want to make more money, how about pursing a higher paying skill set or even better, start their own venture, risk their own capital and make their ownfuture and fortune.
And how would you decide what is fair, what is a “living wage”. Would it be one that puts a Flat Screen HD TV in every room? New Car?House? (in what neighborhood, at what price).
Know that every cost to a corporation is going to be either reflected in the price to the consumer and/or reflected in the amount of profits as well. We’ve already covered this, less profits, less investors, lesspotential.
So what about the poor people not working for this corporation? What if they are working for a corporation that made bad choicesand paying them over and above their market value would mean negative profitsor a loss of revenue for the company. Is anyone here seriously going to go with the platform that a company should continue doing business regardless of profits? Not that it matters because eventually the money dries up and the company folds, but seriously, anyone think that a company should not make profits?
What happened to personal accountability? Why is it acompany or the government or someone else that should be responsible for that person being able to make a living? Is that person living within their means,is that person willing to work, does that person have motivation to make something of themselves, is that person motivated to supplement their skill set if they aren’t making enough money with a skill that will allow them to do so?
Shouldn’t a person have a plan, maybe a one year, a five year and a ten year plan to achieve their goals? Or should they be allowed to drift through life lamenting on how unfair the “System” is and how socially and economically “Unjust” because someone else isn’t making them successful and people that do have initiative have more than they do.
What happened to you can reap what you sow? You sow a field,weather and luck notwithstanding you can harvest what you reaped. If you don’t sow much you shouldn’t expect to reap much. If you showed the initiative to sow a little more than you need to consume, maybe some for selling to invest in machinery for next seasons crops and enough seeds left over to sow again next year, should you be forced to provide some of those seeds to someone who didn’t sow at all. All your hard work plowing the fields, planting the seeds, plucking the weeds, buying and maintaining the equipment needed, having the foresight to plan for next year’s harvest and a little extra so maybe you can expand the area you sowed and anyone here think that part of the persons efforts, sweatequity should go to someone who had no motivation and provided no productivity or effort?
It’s basic human nature, if I was to do all that work just to have much of my efforts go to providing for people that did not work I wouldbe resentful. I would not plan to have extra so it will not be taken away fromme. Productivity would drop like a rock. Shades of Galt.
So the basic question for our society is do we want to provide an environment where people can reap what they sow? Do we want to motivate people to a hard work ethic or reward them for being non-productive? Do we want to develop a can-do attitude with acceptance of personal responsibilityand accountability with a hard work ethic or do we want to develop a nation of entitlement people that expect everything they want in life should be given to them, that it is the role of the government to provide it to them, that anyone that has more than they do makes for social unjustice, it’s just not fair.
Do we want a nation of providers and doers or a nation of takers?
Do we want the government that can’t run a business forprofit to save them to run more businesses at the expense of lost revenue tothe American taxpayer?
Do we want a government that continues to grow without restraint and spends without limits, without regards to the future? Do we want a government that enslaves people with entitlement programs and keeps people controlled by its ever increasing handouts even at a time when the spending can’t be justified as we are broke?
What kind of people are we? What kind of people do we want to be? Do we want to be the innovators that stepped on the moon? Do we want to be a third world country singing kumbaya and making $10 per day? Do we see value in instilling a work ethic in today’s citizens, where they are told the sky’s the limit and you can achieve what you can dream and work for or do we want to be the kind of nation where you are told “don’t want to work, don’t worry about it, there are plenty of rich people in this country and we will just give you a portion of their pie”.
Do we want to be a “Can DO” nation or a "gimme gimme" nation?
Do we want to be able to achieve spectacular successes (andfailures) or do we want to lower the bar where we are all equal, to each according to their own, no matter what you do from Brain Surgery to mowing yards it will all pay the same?
I know what I want.
I prefixed this thread CRISIS because I feel we are in a full blown crisis. We are at a cross roads in America and the direction we take now will determine our future from "The Sky's the Limit" to "Hello Third World Country".
I tend to be verbose so if you don't want to read a long diatribe you probably should just move along, these aren't the droids you are looking for.
WHY?
Why are corporations outsourcing jobs to foreign countries?
A Corporation is notjust the Executives. A Corporation is not just the Members of the Board. ACorporation is not just the Employees. A Corporation is not just the Shareholders. A Corporation is not just the Vendors. A Corporation is also about itscustomers who are seeking value and quality for their money they spend. Let’sjust agree that the Executives are overpaid and get that out of the way. Their salaries account for such a small percentage of the total revenue it isinsignificant.
What is a Corporation? It is a mechanism by which a company can attract investors (shareholders). Corporations could have a six month, one year and five year plan. These plans often include aggressive growth goals which require capital. The shareholder comes along and invests with the company in the expectation ofmaking a profit, that is why they let the company use their money in exchangefor a piece of paper. Stupid you say, well, we all do it for a Federal ReserveNote. Anyway if the company is successful they make a profit. Those profits could be used to provide profits to the shareholders which in turn would incent those shareholders to invest more and maybe attract additional shareholdersallowing the company to follow its goals and plans. The investor assumes risk because the company could lose money, provide no profits so the investor actually loses money making them replace that company with one they hope they can make a profit on. That profit motive is what drives business and investors.Without it you would see stagnation or businesses going out of business.
Now, to address the concept of profit. How much profit is enough? And who should decide on the amount of profit to allow? Should it be the employees? Should it be the shareholders? Should it be outsiders or lawmakers who know what is best? And for the outsider making profit assumptions, are they taking into account the companies one and five year plans to allow for the growth and expansion?
Should the profits arbitrarily be reduced in order to pay the employees more money because that would be FAIR? That loss of profitpotential might just be the difference between and expansion and a contractionand why should the employees get more than the market value of their skill set. If they want to make more money, how about pursing a higher paying skill set or even better, start their own venture, risk their own capital and make their ownfuture and fortune.
And how would you decide what is fair, what is a “living wage”. Would it be one that puts a Flat Screen HD TV in every room? New Car?House? (in what neighborhood, at what price).
Know that every cost to a corporation is going to be either reflected in the price to the consumer and/or reflected in the amount of profits as well. We’ve already covered this, less profits, less investors, lesspotential.
So what about the poor people not working for this corporation? What if they are working for a corporation that made bad choicesand paying them over and above their market value would mean negative profitsor a loss of revenue for the company. Is anyone here seriously going to go with the platform that a company should continue doing business regardless of profits? Not that it matters because eventually the money dries up and the company folds, but seriously, anyone think that a company should not make profits?
What happened to personal accountability? Why is it acompany or the government or someone else that should be responsible for that person being able to make a living? Is that person living within their means,is that person willing to work, does that person have motivation to make something of themselves, is that person motivated to supplement their skill set if they aren’t making enough money with a skill that will allow them to do so?
Shouldn’t a person have a plan, maybe a one year, a five year and a ten year plan to achieve their goals? Or should they be allowed to drift through life lamenting on how unfair the “System” is and how socially and economically “Unjust” because someone else isn’t making them successful and people that do have initiative have more than they do.
What happened to you can reap what you sow? You sow a field,weather and luck notwithstanding you can harvest what you reaped. If you don’t sow much you shouldn’t expect to reap much. If you showed the initiative to sow a little more than you need to consume, maybe some for selling to invest in machinery for next seasons crops and enough seeds left over to sow again next year, should you be forced to provide some of those seeds to someone who didn’t sow at all. All your hard work plowing the fields, planting the seeds, plucking the weeds, buying and maintaining the equipment needed, having the foresight to plan for next year’s harvest and a little extra so maybe you can expand the area you sowed and anyone here think that part of the persons efforts, sweatequity should go to someone who had no motivation and provided no productivity or effort?
It’s basic human nature, if I was to do all that work just to have much of my efforts go to providing for people that did not work I wouldbe resentful. I would not plan to have extra so it will not be taken away fromme. Productivity would drop like a rock. Shades of Galt.
So the basic question for our society is do we want to provide an environment where people can reap what they sow? Do we want to motivate people to a hard work ethic or reward them for being non-productive? Do we want to develop a can-do attitude with acceptance of personal responsibilityand accountability with a hard work ethic or do we want to develop a nation of entitlement people that expect everything they want in life should be given to them, that it is the role of the government to provide it to them, that anyone that has more than they do makes for social unjustice, it’s just not fair.
Do we want a nation of providers and doers or a nation of takers?
Do we want the government that can’t run a business forprofit to save them to run more businesses at the expense of lost revenue tothe American taxpayer?
Do we want a government that continues to grow without restraint and spends without limits, without regards to the future? Do we want a government that enslaves people with entitlement programs and keeps people controlled by its ever increasing handouts even at a time when the spending can’t be justified as we are broke?
What kind of people are we? What kind of people do we want to be? Do we want to be the innovators that stepped on the moon? Do we want to be a third world country singing kumbaya and making $10 per day? Do we see value in instilling a work ethic in today’s citizens, where they are told the sky’s the limit and you can achieve what you can dream and work for or do we want to be the kind of nation where you are told “don’t want to work, don’t worry about it, there are plenty of rich people in this country and we will just give you a portion of their pie”.
Do we want to be a “Can DO” nation or a "gimme gimme" nation?
Do we want to be able to achieve spectacular successes (andfailures) or do we want to lower the bar where we are all equal, to each according to their own, no matter what you do from Brain Surgery to mowing yards it will all pay the same?
I know what I want.
