Hummm......
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AouW9_jyZck&ab_channel=EngineeringExplained
TECH Video: BMW's Hydrogen V12 Engine Is A Hilarious Engineering Stunt - Engineering Explained
- Thread starter Housecarl
- Start date
bracketquant
Veteran Member
If a terrorist puts on the seat belt, that sounds like it's like strapping a very mobile (but very expensive) bomb onto their back.
Knoxville's Joker
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Big auto is finally getting pushed to hydrogen in place of gasoline/diesel. It is a much, much older tech, but we are just now making it mainstream. Caterpiller has demoed a multifuel engine that has a same base, but the head is different based upon the fuel used so fleets can swap to whatever fuel source they want to, but nothing like the multi fuel engines the military uses...
Old Greek
Veteran Member
We have trillions of BTU's under our feet in the US - Natural gas. And it burns super clean in a gasoline engine. I drive a dedicated natural gas F250 truck which gets the same mpg as a gasoline one. I fill up at home for $1.48 per gallon. There are already over 1200 public stations in the US. Filled last week in Ohio at a public station for $2.89 / gallon. Another alternative.
Knoxville's Joker
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Actually they just figured out a way to transport it in a powdered form, though that might be propane if I am having a brain fart.
Usually those kind of schemes are a net energy sink.
More energy goes into making it than one gets out of the final product.
jward
passin' thru
..n if the thought o' road trippin in a fire breathin car-bomb isn't adventure enough, you can hold out for a spin round the friendly skies in this here hydrogen fueled plane prototype, running on a RR AE-2001A gas turbine engine.
Hopefully they too give passengers a generous five minutes to disembark or be rescued in event o issues.
Media caption,
Jet engine running on hydrogen
By Theo Leggett
Business correspondent, BBC News
In a windswept corner of a military site on Salisbury Plain a small aircraft jet engine is undergoing tests that could one day lead to huge changes within the aviation industry.
The engine itself is almost completely conventional. It is a Rolls-Royce AE-2100A gas turbine, a design used widely on regional aeroplanes around the world.
What is wholly unusual about it is the fuel being used. This is the first time a modern aircraft engine has ever been run on hydrogen.
Devoid of bodywork, with its intricate wiring and pipework exposed, it sits securely fastened to a sturdy test rig, while engineers cluster around an array of screens in the control room, a safe distance away.
The tests are being carried out by Rolls-Royce, in partnership with the airline easyJet.
Image source, Rolls-Royce
Image caption,
So far the engine has run at low speed on hydrogen
The immediate aim is a simple one - to show that it is possible to run and control a jet engine using hydrogen fuel, rather than conventional aviation fuels.
In the longer term, the plan is for hydrogen power to play a major role in allowing the aviation industry to continue growing, while cutting climate change emissions dramatically.
"The reason we're looking at hydrogen is really the drive for Net Zero," explains Alan Newby, director of aerospace technology at Rolls-Royce.
"Normally we would run this thing on kerosene. Kerosene is a hydrocarbon and therefore produces carbon dioxide when it burns.
"The beauty of looking at a fuel like hydrogen is that it doesn't contain any carbon and, therefore, when it burns it produces no CO2".
The project is being supported by easyJet, which has contributed several million pounds towards the initial trials.
Image source, Rolls-Royce
Image caption,
Hydrogen fuel is an "exciting" proposition says David Morgan, easyJet's chief operating officer
The company believes that hydrogen power offers the best route to reducing emissions from short haul aviation.
"We started a few years ago looking at what might power the aircraft of the future," explains David Morgan, easyJet's chief operating officer.
"We looked at battery technology, and it was quite clear that the battery technology was probably not going to do it for the large commercial aircraft that we fly.
"We've come to the conclusion that hydrogen is a very exciting proposition for us."
The advantage of hydrogen over batteries is that it provides much more power per kilogram. Batteries are simply too heavy to power larger planes.
Yet hydrogen aviation remains a very long way off. The tests carried out so far have simply shown that a jet engine using hydrogen can be started up and run at low speed.
Image source, Rolls-Royce
Image caption,
Hydrogen requires more elaborate storage and more space than jet fuel
But to go from there to building a wholly new engine, capable of powering a passenger aircraft safely will take a great deal more research - and significant investment.
The aircraft themselves will also need to be redesigned. Hydrogen, even in liquid form, takes up about four times as much space as the kerosene required to fly the same distance.
To make it into a liquid in the first place, it needs to be cooled to -253C. Then, before being burned, it must be turned back into a gas.
"There's a big change from the aircraft point of view," says Alan Newby at Rolls-Royce.
"They're going to have to have a tank containing the hydrogen. You've got to keep it at this really, really cold temperature.
"Then there's the issue of how you feed it through to the engine as well."
Image source, Rolls-Royce
Image caption,
Many engineering problems have to be solved to make hydrogen work as fuel, says Alan Newby from Rolls-Royce
The other key question is where the hydrogen itself comes from, because that will have a dramatic impact on the environmental benefits it can provide
The fuel used in the tests is so-called green hydrogen produced at the European Marine Energy Centre in the Orkney Islands.
It is made by using an electric current to split water into its components, hydrogen and oxygen. The electricity required is produced using wave and wind power. This makes it a very clean fuel.
But most of the hydrogen produced for industrial use today is obtained from a process which involves mixing high temperature steam with natural gas under high pressure.
However, this produces a considerable amount of carbon dioxide, which is then released into the atmosphere. It also requires a considerable amount of energy - which is often provided by burning fossil fuels.
One alternative is what's known as blue hydrogen. This is produced in the same way, but the carbon dioxide is captured and either stored or reused.
In theory, this should make it a cleaner, low-carbon fuel. But that view was challenged in a paper from researchers at Cornell and Stanford universities last year.
They suggested that in fact, using blue hydrogen could still be more harmful to the planet than burning fossil fuels.
More technology of business:
"At the moment there's a lot of hydrogen hype," says Matt Finch, UK policy director of campaign group Transport and Environment.
"A lot of people are saying 'we can use hydrogen, we need hydrogen'. You hear it for cars, for trucks, for ships, for planes, for home heating, for chemicals.
"At the moment the UK effectively produces zero green hydrogen. To fulfil all the needs everyone wants is absolutely impossible."
Mr Finch believes this means supplies of green hydrogen will probably have to be rationed for decades to come, and he says aviation may not be a priority for governments.
All of this means it is likely to be decades before zero-emission hydrogen planes become an everyday reality.
Even then, they are likely to be confined to short haul markets, at least to begin with. On long haul routes, synthetic sustainable fuels are widely expected to offer a more practical solution.
Nevertheless, these first tests on Salisbury Plain may one day be seen as the first, tentative steps towards a technological revolution in the industry.
Hopefully they too give passengers a generous five minutes to disembark or be rescued in event o issues.
Rolls-Royce tests a jet engine running on hydrogen
- Published
- 6 minutes ago
Media caption,
Jet engine running on hydrogen
By Theo Leggett
Business correspondent, BBC News
In a windswept corner of a military site on Salisbury Plain a small aircraft jet engine is undergoing tests that could one day lead to huge changes within the aviation industry.
The engine itself is almost completely conventional. It is a Rolls-Royce AE-2100A gas turbine, a design used widely on regional aeroplanes around the world.
What is wholly unusual about it is the fuel being used. This is the first time a modern aircraft engine has ever been run on hydrogen.
Devoid of bodywork, with its intricate wiring and pipework exposed, it sits securely fastened to a sturdy test rig, while engineers cluster around an array of screens in the control room, a safe distance away.
The tests are being carried out by Rolls-Royce, in partnership with the airline easyJet.
Image caption,
So far the engine has run at low speed on hydrogen
The immediate aim is a simple one - to show that it is possible to run and control a jet engine using hydrogen fuel, rather than conventional aviation fuels.
In the longer term, the plan is for hydrogen power to play a major role in allowing the aviation industry to continue growing, while cutting climate change emissions dramatically.
"The reason we're looking at hydrogen is really the drive for Net Zero," explains Alan Newby, director of aerospace technology at Rolls-Royce.
"Normally we would run this thing on kerosene. Kerosene is a hydrocarbon and therefore produces carbon dioxide when it burns.
"The beauty of looking at a fuel like hydrogen is that it doesn't contain any carbon and, therefore, when it burns it produces no CO2".
The project is being supported by easyJet, which has contributed several million pounds towards the initial trials.
Image caption,
Hydrogen fuel is an "exciting" proposition says David Morgan, easyJet's chief operating officer
The company believes that hydrogen power offers the best route to reducing emissions from short haul aviation.
"We started a few years ago looking at what might power the aircraft of the future," explains David Morgan, easyJet's chief operating officer.
"We looked at battery technology, and it was quite clear that the battery technology was probably not going to do it for the large commercial aircraft that we fly.
"We've come to the conclusion that hydrogen is a very exciting proposition for us."
The advantage of hydrogen over batteries is that it provides much more power per kilogram. Batteries are simply too heavy to power larger planes.
Yet hydrogen aviation remains a very long way off. The tests carried out so far have simply shown that a jet engine using hydrogen can be started up and run at low speed.
Image caption,
Hydrogen requires more elaborate storage and more space than jet fuel
But to go from there to building a wholly new engine, capable of powering a passenger aircraft safely will take a great deal more research - and significant investment.
The aircraft themselves will also need to be redesigned. Hydrogen, even in liquid form, takes up about four times as much space as the kerosene required to fly the same distance.
To make it into a liquid in the first place, it needs to be cooled to -253C. Then, before being burned, it must be turned back into a gas.
"There's a big change from the aircraft point of view," says Alan Newby at Rolls-Royce.
"They're going to have to have a tank containing the hydrogen. You've got to keep it at this really, really cold temperature.
"Then there's the issue of how you feed it through to the engine as well."
Image source, Rolls-Royce
Image caption,
Many engineering problems have to be solved to make hydrogen work as fuel, says Alan Newby from Rolls-Royce
The other key question is where the hydrogen itself comes from, because that will have a dramatic impact on the environmental benefits it can provide
The fuel used in the tests is so-called green hydrogen produced at the European Marine Energy Centre in the Orkney Islands.
It is made by using an electric current to split water into its components, hydrogen and oxygen. The electricity required is produced using wave and wind power. This makes it a very clean fuel.
But most of the hydrogen produced for industrial use today is obtained from a process which involves mixing high temperature steam with natural gas under high pressure.
However, this produces a considerable amount of carbon dioxide, which is then released into the atmosphere. It also requires a considerable amount of energy - which is often provided by burning fossil fuels.
One alternative is what's known as blue hydrogen. This is produced in the same way, but the carbon dioxide is captured and either stored or reused.
In theory, this should make it a cleaner, low-carbon fuel. But that view was challenged in a paper from researchers at Cornell and Stanford universities last year.
They suggested that in fact, using blue hydrogen could still be more harmful to the planet than burning fossil fuels.
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"At the moment there's a lot of hydrogen hype," says Matt Finch, UK policy director of campaign group Transport and Environment.
"A lot of people are saying 'we can use hydrogen, we need hydrogen'. You hear it for cars, for trucks, for ships, for planes, for home heating, for chemicals.
"At the moment the UK effectively produces zero green hydrogen. To fulfil all the needs everyone wants is absolutely impossible."
Mr Finch believes this means supplies of green hydrogen will probably have to be rationed for decades to come, and he says aviation may not be a priority for governments.
All of this means it is likely to be decades before zero-emission hydrogen planes become an everyday reality.
Even then, they are likely to be confined to short haul markets, at least to begin with. On long haul routes, synthetic sustainable fuels are widely expected to offer a more practical solution.
Nevertheless, these first tests on Salisbury Plain may one day be seen as the first, tentative steps towards a technological revolution in the industry.
Rolls-Royce tests a jet engine running on hydrogen
The firm, together with easyJet, is trying out hydrogen instead of jet fuel in a jet engine.
www.bbc.com
Macgyver
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Hydrogen is very easy to produce cheaply.
It's the compression/storage/ distribution that gets tricky.
AlfaMan
Has No Life - Lives on TB
BMW can't make that 6 litre V-12 run properly on premium unleaded pump gasoline. Seems every one I've ever crawled into to inspect had a check engine light on. Cam phaser codes or coolant blockages is what I see for codes. And a 760iL will run you around 140K new...
BMW engineering is always 10 times more complex than it needs to be. And their engineering isn't the greatest in some areas too. They should have leased a Toyota Mirai before delving into the hydrogen issue.
hiwall
Has No Life - Lives on TB
By making it from natural gas.
How did the hydrogen push work out in 2003 to 2005? Uh, we don't have a hydrogen station in our town.
"On June 25, 2003, the United States and the European Union agreed to collaborate on the acceleration of the development of the hydrogen economy.
Both President Bush and European Commission President Prodi have made the development of a hydrogen economy a major priority.
President Bush's Hydrogen Fuel Initiative, announced on January 28, 2003, envisions the transformation of the nation's transportation fleet from a near-total reliance on petroleum to steadily increasing use of clean-burning hydrogen.
President Bush's $1.2 billion hydrogen fuel initiative aims to reverse America's growing dependence on foreign oil by accelerating the commercialization of hydrogen-powered fuel cells to power cars, trucks, homes and businesses with no pollution or greenhouse gases.
The Hydrogen Fuel Initiative will include $720 million in new funding over the next five years to develop the technologies and infrastructure to produce, store, and distribute hydrogen for use in fuel cell vehicles and electricity generation.
Combined with the FreedomCAR (Cooperative Automotive Research) initiative, President Bush is proposing a total of $1.7 billion over the next five years to develop hydrogen-powered fuel cells, hydrogen infrastructure and advanced automotive technologies."
May 25, 2005 — President Bush touted his hydrogen plan and energy bill by visiting the nation's first retail hydrogen station Wednesday
Just more propaganda and another way to give huge amounts of money to cronies.
Macgyver
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Electrolysis
hiwall
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Is the most expensive way to make hydrogen.
Doc1
Has No Life - Lives on TB
A couple of things to note regarding hydrogen is that it leaks and it causes metal embrittlement. When hydrogen is stored under high pressure, the hydrogen atoms literally pass through the walls of a steel tank. Left long enough, the tank will empty itself without a valve being turned. Additionally, hydrogen in contact with steel causes the metal to become brittle. The longer the steel is in contact with the gas, the more brittle it becomes.
These two phenomenon alone have serious implications for both hydrogen storage and piping. Engineers always factor in the ability of piping and pressure vessels to be able to flex and stretch. Over time, hydrogen equipment becomes less able to endure stretching and flexing.
Personally, I think the holy grail of hydrogen use will be the ability to create a fuel that's liquid at one atmosphere of pressure, like diesel or gasoline. Considering that the oceans represent an inexhaustible hydrogen reservoir, mankind could have an endless energy resource.
Best
Doc
These two phenomenon alone have serious implications for both hydrogen storage and piping. Engineers always factor in the ability of piping and pressure vessels to be able to flex and stretch. Over time, hydrogen equipment becomes less able to endure stretching and flexing.
Personally, I think the holy grail of hydrogen use will be the ability to create a fuel that's liquid at one atmosphere of pressure, like diesel or gasoline. Considering that the oceans represent an inexhaustible hydrogen reservoir, mankind could have an endless energy resource.
Best
Doc
Profit of Doom
Dismember
Calling that one. Powdered farts maybe. Or is it powdered brains?
Profit of Doom
Dismember
When hydrogen is refined from hydrocarbons, where does the carbon go? Not to mention that harmful climate change from CO2 is a lie they have been telling us for 50 years, and is still a crock of bullshit.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the carbon the majority of the energy supply?
NoDandy
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Yeah, I have never understood why co2 is supposed to e such big bad poo. After all, c02 is what makes plants grow, and they give off oxygen. I think all those "science experts" are full of shit.
jward
passin' thru
The days of the hydrogen car are already over
Tom Stacey, Chris Ivory
Hydrogen fuel cell cars emerged as an alternative to both the electric and combustion engine vehicle in the early 2000s. They were widely considered an avenue toward universal green motoring. Powered through a chemical reaction between hydrogen and oxygen, the only tailpipe emission they produce is water.
The technology also promised a traditional driving experience. Drivers can refuel at filling stations, and a hydrogen car’s range is comparable to the combustion engine vehicle. Hydrogen vehicle technology also offered oil companies the opportunity to shift their operations towards the production and transportation of hydrogen and hydrogen refueling at existing stations.
The UK government reiterated its commitment to the technology in 2016 by investing 2 million pounds in the promotion of hydrogen cars to UK businesses. The European Parliament has more recently agreed to set minimum national targets for the deployment of alternative fuels infrastructure. Under this framework, there will be at least one hydrogen refueling station every 100km along main EU roads.
But hydrogen cars have now all but disappeared. Toyota and Hyundai, the only vehicle manufacturers to produce hydrogen cars for the UK market, sold just 12 hydrogen cars in the country in 2021. Earlier this year, Shell closed all of its UK Hydrogen refueling stations.
Meanwhile electric vehicles, despite not delivering the range or the fast refueling of a hydrogen car, have surged in popularity. In 2010, 138 electric vehicles were sold in the UK. This grew to roughly 190,000 annual sales in 2021.
Infrastructure is key
The vehicle types are not competing with each other outright. Instead, this is a case of competition between national technology systems. And where this is the case, the technically superior product rarely triumphs.The Betamax tape recorder failed to take control of the video cassette market in the 1980s, despite being technically superior to its competitors. The lower-quality video home system (VHS) was able to take a dominant share of the market due to their better supply chain infrastructure.
As they were stocked in more video rental stores, VHS tapes were simply more accessible than Betamax.
Hydrogen and electric vehicles also depend on broader technological systems. One is based on electricity generation and the other on supplying hydrogen.
Electric vehicles have the advantage of being able to depend on an existing power generation and distribution system – the electrical grid. An electric vehicle can be recharged wherever there is access to a plug socket.
Electric vehicle manufacturer, Tesla, has capitalized on this. Already with a customer base, Tesla was able to build its vehicles and recharging infrastructure simultaneously. They produced over 900,000 new vehicles in 2021 and have installed a global fast-charging network of 35,000 superchargers to support them.
Hydrogen refueling stations are few and far between. Photo: Weibo
The infrastructure that exists to support hydrogen vehicles is limited in comparison and will require extensive investment to introduce. The pipeline infrastructure necessary for a European hydrogen distribution system alone is estimated to cost 80–143 billion euros.
As hydrogen needs to be pressurized and transported either as a gas or a liquid, supply chains must also be redesigned. The cost of developing hydrogen refueling stations and scaling up hydrogen production will also be extensive. Hydrogen production currently accounts for just 3% of global energy demand.
But governments and businesses are at present unwilling to make the required investments. There is little economic sense in building the infrastructure if the network of cars is too small to use it. Yet at the same time demand for hydrogen cars will remain low until they are supported with compatible infrastructure.
Lessons for the hydrogen car
The introduction of complex technologies and infrastructures have always relied on investment in large-scale technology systems. But governments face a choice over which technologies they support.Investment in technologies to bring public transport systems to cities in developed nations at the turn of the 20th century, to fight wars, and to power modern economies all emerged at a time when governments took responsibility for the need to invest, plan and control production and consumption in the national interest.
Large-scale national infrastructure projects including nuclear power and weapons programs, rail electrification, the development of high-speed trains and manned space missions all occurred throughout the remainder of the century.
They all required coordinated efforts to bring them about. This involved government funding, the creation of new institutions such as Nasa and British Rail, research grants for manufacturers, and the setting of clear targets.
Governments have also been the customers of these technologies. The US government, for example, awarded Elon Musk’s space technology program, SpaceX, a contract to conduct national security launches for the US military.
The planning and construction of such systems have always been underpinned by the idea that national interests are at stake. This has been the case whether the motive has been to ensure adequate military defenses, to be internationally competitive or to provide societal benefits by launching satellites and developing mass public transport systems.
A mixed automotive economy of hydrogen and electric vehicles could accelerate the transition toward zero emissions. But a viable hydrogen automotive system will need investment on a massive scale.
It will require the construction of new and complex technology systems and a fundamental shift in policy thinking and public discourse.
Tom Stacey is Senior Lecturer in Operations and Supply Chain Management, Anglia Ruskin University and Chris Ivory is Director of the Innovative Management Practice Research Centre, Anglia Ruskin University
This article is republished from The Conversation under a Creative Commons license. Read the original article.
The days of the hydrogen car are already over
Hydrogen fuel cell cars emerged as an alternative to both the electric and combustion engine vehicle in the early 2000s. They were widely considered an avenue toward universal green motoring. Power…
asiatimes.com
Attachments
Profit of Doom
Dismember
They are full of shit. Climate has been much warmer in the past, without CO2 being higher, and we did fine. CO2 has risen, while temperature has dropped, due to natural events of a cyclical nature. There is no connection between rising CO2 and rising human caused climate. The sun has far more climate effect.