CORP/BIZ Verizon, AT&T Annouce Two-Week Delay In 5G Rollout Aviation Safety Concerns Prompt Eleventh-Hour Pause - January 4, 2022

TammyinWI

Talk is cheap
Verizon and AT&T agreed on January 3 to delay for two additional weeks activation of new 5G C-band wireless transmitters, after initially rejecting calls to do just that from aviation stakeholders and federal regulators concerned about potential interference with critical aviation safety equipment.

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Radar (or radio) altimeters installed in aircraft such as this Gulfstream G280 and almost universally used in transport aircraft provide pilots with the only direct measurement of height above obstacles or terrain available. This information is displayed in real time by instruments, and also fed to autopilots and related aircraft control systems. Also used in helicopters, radio altimeters are required equipment for flight in low visibility conditions in many contexts. Photo by Mike Fizer.


The long-simmering dispute between aviation stakeholders and the wireless industry over the potential for 5G C-band transmitters to render radio altimeters (also known as "radar altimeters") unreliable had been on course to significantly disrupt air travel, including airline flights and emergency medical transportation, on January 5. Verizon, AT&T, and the Federal Communications Commission that regulates them had each rebuffed requests to extend a pause in 5G C-band activation—but with pressure mounting, the two companies announced late on January 3 that they would voluntarily hold off on activation of the new transmitters until January 19.

FAA spokesman Matthew Lehner thanked the companies for agreeing to the two-week pause, and for proposing additional mitigations, in a statement issued to the media: "We look forward to using the additional time and space to reduce flight disruptions associated with this 5G deployment."

Pilots, airlines, and other operators, including emergency medical transport providers, had grown increasingly concerned that time had run out to effectively plan for the activation of C-band transmitters that could interfere with critical avionics operating on nearby frequencies. The FAA issued airworthiness directives in December setting the stage for notices to air missions (notams) that would impose restrictions on a range of flight operations in poor weather.

Verizon and AT&T paid billions of dollars to license the C-band frequencies during an auction held in 2021. The companies, and the FCC, have long disputed the safety concerns voiced by aviation stakeholders, while operators, avionics manufacturers, and organizations including AOPA have warned that operations could be impacted at scores of airports, and beyond. Emergency medical helicopter operations away from airports could also be halted in poor weather.

Airlines have been coping in recent weeks with significant disruptions caused by winter weather and COVID-19 infections that reduced crew availability and led to thousands of flight cancellations and delays through the holiday travel season.
The voluntary delay was announced on the same day a coalition of aviation industry stakeholders—including AOPA—called on the White House to intervene on January 3:

“We are just hours away from this C-band 5G rollout, yet the aviation industry is still anxiously awaiting details on how aviation will be impacted and on how crew members will need to operate to maintain safety and minimize disruptions," said AOPA and nine other organizations, including the National Business Aviation Association and Helicopter Association International.

The aviation coalition has cited preliminary tests conducted by RTCA, a nonprofit association that develops consensus policies for aviation modernization, as a basis for concern that 5G C-band transmissions are likely to interfere with the only instrument on any aircraft that directly measures height above the ground or obstacles.

The coalition welcomed a voluntary decision announced in November by Verizon and AT&T to delay activation until January 5, but noted then that more time would likely be needed to fully understand the potential impact on the safety of aircraft operating in bad weather with radar altimeters.

Verizon and AT&T on January 2 rejected a request for further delay of new C-band transmitter activations made by U.S. Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg and FAA Administrator Steve Dickson. The CEOs of the two telecommunications giants offered temporary mitigations that were deemed inadequate on initial assessment by technical experts working for firms that make radar altimeters. For example, the two companies offered to voluntarily, for six months, "adopt the same C-Band radio exclusion zones that are already in use in France, with slight adaptation to reflect the modest technical differences in how C-band is being deployed in the two countries," AT&T CEO John Stankey and Verizon Communications Inc. CEO Hans Vestberg wrote in their January 2 response to Buttigieg and Dickson's request for delay. "The effect would be to further reduce C-band signal levels by at least 10 times on the runway or during the last mile of final approach and the first mile after takeoff."

Members of the aviation coalition, during a January 3 conference, said that the proposed mitigations do not represent the full extent of aviation-related 5G mitigations actually imposed in France, and aircraft-specific analysis would still be required to ensure that safety would not be compromised when flying in low visibility in the presence of 5G C-band signals.

If C-band activation proceeds this month, the FAA plans to issue notams that would limit operations at many airports in poor weather, compounding air travel delays and cancellations, and also complicating other operations including off-airport landings of emergency medical services helicopters, an issue that the mitigations proposed by the wireless industry do not address.

"We continue to work with our coalition partners to raise awareness of the safety concerns raised by experts as well as the economic impacts that disruption could impose," said AOPA Director of Airspace, Air Traffic, and Security Jim McClay. "We very much appreciate the FAA's diligence in working to protect the safety of the national airspace system. We hope that common sense will prevail so that interests on all sides are protected."

Jim Moore Jim Moore
Editor-Web
Editor-Web Jim Moore joined AOPA in 2011 and is an instrument-rated private pilot, as well as a certificated remote pilot, who enjoys competition aerobatics and flying drones.


 
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Red Baron

Paleo-Conservative
_______________
Think of all of the cheap Chinese 5G phones and components that are likely to radiate out of band.
 

Chance

Veteran Member
Looks like this technology is being turned on in spite of the airlines. Biden et al are doing nothing to address the airline's concerns.

January 19 is the date.

Anyone here have knowledge as to what problems this could cause? I've watched various videos, and have done some reading...just wondering if someone here knows something firsthand.

Looks like we are about to find out.....

 

Troke

On TB every waking moment
There are times when I don't understand anything I am reading and this is one of them. It seems the effect of 5G on airline instruments could be demonstrated. And if demonstrated, the next move is to find out if it can be mitigated. And if not, maybe no 5G.
 

Heliobas Disciple

TB Fanatic
(fair use applies)


Major U.S. airlines warn 5G could ground some planes, wreak havoc
By David Shepardson
January 18, 20221:30 AM EST | Last Updated 25 minutes ago

WASHINGTON, Jan 17 (Reuters) - The chief executives of major U.S. passenger and cargo carriers on Monday warned of an impending "catastrophic" aviation crisis in less than 36 hours, when AT&T (T.N) and Verizon (VZ.N) are set to deploy new 5G service.

The airlines warned the new C-Band 5G service set to begin on Wednesday could render a significant number of widebody aircraft unusable, "could potentially strand tens of thousands of Americans overseas" and cause "chaos" for U.S. flights.

"Unless our major hubs are cleared to fly, the vast majority of the traveling and shipping public will essentially be grounded," wrote the chief executives of American Airlines (AAL.O), Delta Air Lines (DAL.N), United Airlines , Southwest Airlines (LUV.N) and others in a letter first reported by Reuters.

The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) has warned that potential interference could affect sensitive airplane instruments such as altimeters and significantly hamper low-visibility operations.

"This means that on a day like yesterday, more than 1,100 flights and 100,000 passengers would be subjected to cancellations, diversions or delays," the letter cautioned.

Airlines late on Monday were considering whether to begin canceling some international flights that are scheduled to arrive in the United States on Wednesday.


"With the proposed restrictions at selected airports, the transportation industry is preparing for some service disruption. We are optimistic that we can work across industries and with government to finalize solutions that safely mitigate as many schedule impacts as possible," plane maker Boeing (BA.N) said on Monday.

Action is urgent, the airlines added in the letter also signed by UPS Airlines (UPS.N), Alaska Air (ALK.N), Atlas Air (AAWW.O), JetBlue Airways and FedEx Express (FDX.N). "To be blunt, the nation’s commerce will grind to a halt."

The letter went to White House National Economic Council director Brian Deese, Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg, FAA Administrator Steve Dickson and Federal Communications Commission (FCC) Chairwoman Jessica Rosenworcel.

Airlines for America, the group that organized the letter, declined to comment. The FAA said it "will continue to ensure that the traveling public is safe as wireless companies deploy 5G. The FAA continues to work with the aviation industry and wireless companies to try to limit 5G-related flight delays and cancellations."

The other government agencies did not comment.

'INTERVENTION IS NEEDED'

AT&T and Verizon, which won nearly all of the C-Band spectrum in an $80 billion auction last year, on Jan. 3 agreed to buffer zones around 50 airports to reduce interference risks and take other steps to cut potential interference for six months. They also agreed to delay deployment for two weeks until Wednesday, temporarily averting an aviation safety standoff, after previously delaying service by 30 days.

Verizon and AT&T declined comment on Monday. They argue C-Band 5G has been successfully deployed in about 40 other countries without aviation interference issues.

The CEOs of major airlines and Boeing Chief Executive Dave Calhoun held a lengthy call with Buttigieg and Dickson on Sunday to warn of the looming crisis, officials told Reuters.

United Airlines late Monday separately warned the issue could affect more than 15,000 of its flights, 1.25 million passengers and snarl tons of cargo annually.

United said it faces "significant restrictions on 787s, 777s, 737s and regional aircraft in major cities like Houston, Newark, Los Angeles, San Francisco and Chicago."

The airlines ask "that 5G be implemented everywhere in the country except within the approximate 2 miles (3.2 km) of airport runways" at some key airports.

"Immediate intervention is needed to avoid significant operational disruption to air passengers, shippers, supply chain and delivery of needed medical supplies," they said.

The airlines added that flight restrictions will not be limited to poor weather operations.

"Multiple modern safety systems on aircraft will be deemed unusable causing a much larger problem than what we knew... Airplane manufacturers have informed us that there are huge swaths of the operating fleet that may need to be indefinitely grounded."

One area of concern is whether some or all Boeing 777s will be unable to land at some key U.S. airports after 5G service starts, as well as some Boeing cargo planes, airline officials told Reuters.

The airlines urged action to ensure "5G is deployed except when towers are too close to airport runways until the FAA can determine how that can be safely accomplished without catastrophic disruption."

The FAA said on Sunday it had cleared an estimated 45% of the U.S. commercial airplane fleet to perform low-visibility landings at many airports where 5G C-band will be deployed and they expect to issue more approvals before Wednesday. The airlines noted on Monday that the list did not include many large airports.
 

Heliobas Disciple

TB Fanatic
It's going to effect helicopters as well:



(fair use applies)

Pilots fear 'C-band' 5G could interfere with avionics
Fri, January 14, 2022, 3:48 PM

LINK TO YOUTUBE so I can embed it:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJyyVxT_7V0

Helicopter operators worry about 5G 'C-Band' interference
5min 58sec


John Shea, Helicopter Association International Director of Government Affairs, joins Yahoo Finance Live to discuss the concerns of 5G frequencies interfering with flight mechanisms for both helicopters and major airlines.


Video Transcript

- We need to talk about it now. John Shea is Helicopter Association International Director of Government Affairs. And not many of us are pilots. I certainly am not. So help us understand, we get that you can have interference within the band where the transmissions are taking place. I guess it's the same for helicopters as it is for the devices on airplanes. So what do we do about it?

JOHN SHEA: Yeah, that's right. And thank you for having me on. You know, you hit on something-- it's exactly the same. If anything, it's actually more of an issue for helicopters if you consider the fact that we're flying much lower, in urban environments and in places where we're likely to see 5G towers come out first.

So this is definitely a concern for us. And we've got certain helicopter missions that are really critical to this nation. Not just the economy with offshore, but with air med and firefighting and law enforcement. So I think there's a real public interest in this issue. Of course, we understand that the commercial airlines have been kind of front and center, but I think folks are starting to realize that we've got a big problem on our hands if we're not flying.

- John, this is Emily here. So what is the solution in this case? Is there a way for these new 5G signals to operate while avoiding this kind of interference with aircraft and helicopters, in particular, that you're talking about?

JOHN SHEA: So the FAA, in close partnership with industry and the radio altimeter manufacturers-- that's the critical piece of safety equipment that measures the distance from the ground to the aircraft-- have been in communication for some time. And they've been trying to identify certain areas and radiuses from the towers where the interference will be an issue. And there are certain mitigations that may be available to operators and pilots that mitigate some of the interference concerns.

Those could be filters and, again, maintaining a safe distance. But the issue that we're running into is there's a number of different configurations with helicopters and radio altimeters. So the aircraft varies and the radio altimeter varies, and a simple filter will not work in most circumstances.

And the bigger issue is we're looking at being years away from having a 5G-resistant radio altimeter. So this problem is one that doesn't have a silver bullet anytime soon. And that's why we've been pushing back so hard to get the FCC to press pause until we can figure out exactly what's going on and how we can mitigate it.

- If we heard correctly, though, five years. Is it realistic to delay the implementation of 5G for five years? Is there some other alternative that gets everybody safe, because safety is first, but gets us to where we're headed?

JOHN SHEA: Well, you know, I completely understand the situation where the wireless carriers are right now. They purchased for $80 billion the C-band spectrum, with very clear direction that they would be able to turn on on December 5th. And they have delayed twice now, and set agreements with the FAA. However, the mitigations that they have offered voluntarily only are in place for six months. So we're looking at a situation where we're going to have to be updating equipment and what are called notice to airmen and AMOCs, which are an alternative means of compliance, almost on a quarterly basis.

So while I know five years seems like a long way away, and that's not something-- a number that we're particularly pushing for, we're trying to find a way to coexist, but in the current environment and with the unknowns that we have in front of us, it seems very premature to turn on at this point. And that's really what we've been trying to say, is let's really understand this issue before we move forward and start jeopardizing some of the safety of life missions that we conduct. So.

- So John, after January 19, when AT&T, Verizon, these telecommunication providers have said that they will delay this rollout until, what should consumers and passengers be looking out for in order to make sure that they're still flying on aircraft and maintaining their safety, as well?

JOHN SHEA: Well, you know, I think-- I know the airlines are taking this very serious, and as are the manufacturers. They're just-- I mean, the communication and the work that's happening around the clock in order to maintain safety, I believe that plus the FAA, they're-- they've taken a very conservative approach to safety, and their exclusion zones and protection zones that they're providing for the 1,600 plus NOTAMs that are-- notice to air missions that protect a certain airspace area.

But the traveling public, I mean, I think they're going to be looking at a very difficult situation come January 19. COVID has already caused a very massive disruption to the airlines, but as far as cancellations and delays, that's only going to be exacerbated by what we're looking at with 5G. So I think, you know, they can expect to hear from the airlines. And they'll hear plenty, I'm sure.
 

BornFree

Came This Far
The fact that this could have ever been allowed to happen really tells you something about your government. I am sure that the airlines made some heavy political contributions to get what they wanted.
 

SmithJ

Veteran Member
There are times when I don't understand anything I am reading and this is one of them. It seems the effect of 5G on airline instruments could be demonstrated. And if demonstrated, the next move is to find out if it can be mitigated. And if not, maybe no 5G.
It’s all about money. The airlines want some from either the government or th mobile carriers.

C band 5g is live right now in Europe and planes are not crashing and people are not turning into zombies.
 

Warm Wisconsin

Easy as 3.141592653589..
The European Union set standards for mid-range 5G frequencies in a 3.4-3.8 GHz range, a lower frequency than the service set to be rolled out in the United States 4.2-4.4 GHz.

I know many consider altitude over rated but I assure you it’s important.

Gulfstream and others have already proven it will effect instruments. They need to adjust the frequency
 
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SmithJ

Veteran Member
The European Union set standards for mid-range 5G frequencies in a 3.4-3.8 GHz range, a lower frequency than the service set to be rolled out in the United States 4.2-4.4 GHz.

I know many consider altitude over rated but I assure you it’s important.

Gulfstream and others have already proven it will effect instruments. They need to adjust the frequency

If you are correct, maybe so. But why did the airlines wait so long?

However, I believe US C Band is 3700 to 4200, not 4200 to 4400; and during 2021 the phase 1 roll out will not exceed 3.98 - and as far as other countries - particularly Japan:



Nearly 40 countries have already adopted rules and deployed hundreds of thousands of 5G base stations in the C-Band at similar frequencies and similar power levels—and in some instances, at closer proximity to aviation operations—than 5G will be in the U.S. None of these countries has reported any harmful interference with aviation equipment from these commercial deployments, astheFederalAviationAdministrationrecentlyconfirmed.2 Justbywayofexample:

1 See Letters from CTIA to Marlene H. Dortch, Secretary, FCC, GN Docket No. 18-122 (filed Aug. 26, 2020; Oct. 27, 2020; Oct. 30, 2020; Nov. 17, 2020; Dec. 7, 2020; Mar. 4, 2021; and Sept. 3, 2021).
2 Special Airworthiness Information Bulletin, AIR-21-18 (dated Nov. 2, 2021) (“There have not yet been proven reports of harmful interference due to wireless broadband operations internationally, although this issue is continuing to be studied.”).


• Japan. Tens of thousands of 5G base stations have been deployed up to 4100 MHz— meaning there is just a 100-megahertz guard band between 5G operations and where radio altimeters operate. The U.S. will have four times the guard band with this year’s Phase 1 deployments (3700-3800 MHz), and two times the guard band following the full C-Band transition in 2023 (3700-3980 MHz). There are no mitigations below 4000 MHz (i.e., no restrictions in the spectrum where U.S. 5G operations will be), and there have been no claims of interference.

• Europe. The 3400-3800 MHz band is harmonized for 5G, and 5G has been operating more than ten thousand base stations in more than 20 countries for up to three years at power levels substantially similar to U.S. C-Band 5G levels, without harmful interference claims— including in the band segment where Phase 1 5G operations will launch in the U.S. this year (3700-3800 MHz). Denmark, for instance, has achieved nationwide coverage up to 3800 MHz, with nearly 4,000 base stations transmitting at power levels within 1 dB of the U.S.

• Australia. Australia auctioned the 3475-3700 MHz band in 2020, and carriers are successfully operating more than 5,000 5G base stations today.3

• South Korea. More than one hundred thousand 5G sites have been deployed in the 3400- 3700 MHz band for the past three years.4 There are no mitigations in place and no known reports of interference.
 
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ioujc

MARANTHA!! Even so, come LORD JESUS!!!
Well>>>>if this is not a comforting thought, I just don't know what is!!

I guess not enough people were killed by the vax, so they had to come up with something that would kill hundreds and have the effect of bombs falling out of the sky for "fly over country!!"
 

Heliobas Disciple

TB Fanatic
(fair use applies)

5G goes live in the US and sparks international chaos: British Airways and Cathay Pacific are latest carriers scrambling to change transatlantic flights over safety fears around airports as AT&T and Verizon activate their networks at 90%
  • Verizon and AT&T activated their 5G networks at 12.01am on Wednesday amid airline safety concerns
  • Delta warned of possible cancellations and United has already started blaming 5G for delays
  • The world's largest operator of the Boeing 777, Dubai's Emirates, suspended flights to nine US cities
  • Japan Airlines has canceled three cargo flights and five passenger flights; All Nippon has canceled 20
  • Air India is not operating between Delhi and JFK, Chicago or San Fran, or between Mumbai and Newark
  • AT&T and Verizon have agreed not to switch on the 5G towers near major airports for now
  • The White House intervened between the two industries on Tuesday to broker an agreement
  • The CEOs of major US airlines had warned of mass chaos if the towers were switched on
By Rachael Bunyan and Ronny Reyes and Keith Griffith and Jennifer Smith, Chief Reporter For Dailymail.Com
Published: 03:20 EST, 19 January 2022 | Updated: 03:38 EST, 19 January 2022

Major international airlines are rushing to rejig or cancel flights to the United States after AT&T and Verizon activated their 5G wireless networks at 12.01am on Wednesday.

The issue appeared to particularly impact the Boeing 777, a long-rage, wide-body aircraft used by carriers worldwide, with two Japanese airlines directly naming the aircraft as being particularly affected by the 5G signals.

The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) had warned that potential 5G interference could affect altitude readings that play a key role in bad-weather landings on some jets.

Despite an announcement by AT&T and Verizon that they would pause the 5G rollout near airports, several airlines still canceled flights, switched aircraft models, and warned of delays and travel chaos.

Delta Air Lines released a statement that the company 'is planning for the possibility of weather-related cancellations caused by the deployment of new 5G service in the vicinity of dozens of U.S. airports starting as early as Wednesday.'

United Airlines told customers on a flight from Denver to Houston that a three-hour delay was a result of the new 5G systems, according to a notice on its website. It also suggested customers with any concerns reach out to the Federal Communications Commission.

British Airways opted to switch aircraft on its daily flight to Los Angeles to an Airbus A380 from the usual Boeing 777 service, two people familiar with the matter told Reuters.

Emirates, Japan Airlines, Air India and All Nippon have canceled some of their Boeing 777 flights to the US over fears that new 5G towers could pose a safety risk.

The world's largest operator of the Boeing 777, Dubai's Emirates, said earlier it would halt flights to Boston, Chicago, Dallas-Fort Worth, Houston, Miami, Newark, New Jersey, Orlando, Florida, San Francisco and Seattle starting Wednesday.
Emirates flights to New York's JFK, Los Angeles and Washington DC will continue to operate.

Japan's two major airlines, All Nippon Airways and Japan Airlines, said they would curtail Boeing 777 flights.
ANA said it was cancelling or changing the aircraft used on some U.S. flights.

Korean Air Lines, South Korea's biggest airline, switched four passenger planes from Boeing 777s to 787s and two cargo planes from 747-8s to 747-400s overnight, and will continue to avoid operating 777s and 747-8s at affected U.S. airports, spokeswoman Jill Chung said.

Hong Kong's Cathay Pacific said it is deploying different types of airplanes where necessary to the affected airports and that its flights to the United States have not been affected so far. Taiwan's EVA Air also said it had taken 'contingency measures to ensure flight safety,' without elaborating.

The airlines said they were acting in response to a notice from Boeing that 5G signals may interfere with the radio altimeter on the 777, leading to restrictions.

A spokesman for Boeing had no immediate comment.

AT&T and Verizon on Tuesday agreed to temporarily defer turning on some wireless towers near key airports in a bid to avert further disruption to U.S. flights.

President Joe Biden hailed the agreement, saying it 'will avoid potentially devastating disruptions to passenger travel, cargo operations, and our economic recovery, while allowing more than 90 percent of wireless tower deployment to occur as scheduled.'

Verizon will temporarily not turn on about 500 towers near airports, sources told Reuters, or less than 10 percent of their planned deployment, while the carriers and the administration work on a permanent solution, sources briefed on the matter said. Details of the agreement, including the length of the pause, were not disclosed.

Both Verizon and AT&T will launch 5G on Wednesday elsewhere in the country bringing faster speeds to tens of millions of people.

The row erupted on Monday when US airline CEOs begged the Biden administration to stop AT&T and Verizon from rolling out their C-band 5G technology.

The telecoms giants had been planning to launch the technology across the US on Wednesday, turning on 5,000 towers across the country that will bring Americans' faster internet speeds, including 500 which the airline industry say pose a threat to flight safety.

Both AT&T and Verizon have reluctantly agreed to halt turning on those towers of concern until a resolution can be found, in order to avoid a mass cancelation of flights across America and travel chaos that would up end the already distressed supply chain and scupper consumer travel.

It seemed to appease domestic airlines but did not calm international fear.

Emirates has now canceled flights to Boston, Chicago, Dallas Fort Worth, Houston, Miami, Newark, Orlando, San Francisco and Seattle.

In its announcement, Emirates cited the cancellation as necessary due to 'operational concerns associated with the planned deployment of 5G mobile network services in the U.S. at certain airports.'

'We are working closely with aircraft manufacturers and the relevant authorities to alleviate operational concerns, and we hope to resume our U.S. services as soon as possible,' the state-owned airline said.

The United Arab Emirates successfully rolled out 5G coverage all around its airports without incident, like dozens of other countries. But in the U.S., the Federal Aviation Administration worries that the C-Band strand of 5G could interfere with aviation equipment.

Of particular concern in the 5G rollout appears to be the Boeing 777, a major workhorse for Emirates, which only flies that model and the Airbus A380 jumbo jet. Its Mideast competitor, Qatar Airways, anticipates 'minor delays' on return flights from the U.S. but says otherwise its dozen U.S. routes are operating as scheduled.

All Nippon and Japan Airlines have canceled all of their Boeing 777 flights to the US, and they say they did so at the request of Boeing.

'Boeing has announced flight restrictions on all airlines operating the Boeing 777 aircraft, and we have cancelled or changed the aircraft for some flights to/from the U.S. based on the announcement by Boeing,' a statement from All Nippon Airways said.

All Nippon cancelled 20 flights to the U.S. over the issue to cities such as Chicago, Los Angeles and New York.
Japan Airlines similarly said that it had been informed that 5G signals 'may interfere with the radio altimeter installed on the Boeing 777.'

'We will refrain from using this model on the continental United States line until we can confirm its safety and we regret to inform you that we will cancel the flight for which the aircraft cannot be changed to the Boeing 787,' the airline said. Eight of its flights were cancelled on Wednesday - three passenger trips and five for cargo.

Boeing has not confirmed that it has given the order to airlines to ground their US 777s.

It's unclear exactly how many flights have been canceled so far, or how many more will be.

Air India has canceled flights to and from Delhi to and from New York, San Francisco and Chicago, and between Mumbai and Newark 'due to deployment of the 5G communications' equipment. It said it would try to use other aircraft on U.S. routes as well.

Choi Jong-yun, a spokeswoman of Asiana Airlines, a South Korean carrier, said the company hasn't been affected so far because it uses Airbus planes for passenger flights to the U.S. and doesn't use the affected Boeing planes to transport cargo.

However, Choi said airlines have also been instructed by the FAA to avoid automatic landings at affected U.S. airports during bad weather conditions, regardless of plane type. Asiana will redirect its planes to nearby airports during those conditions, she said.

Transport Secretary Pete Buttigieg has been unable to offer a solution to the fiasco.

'We recognize the economic importance of expanding 5G, and we appreciate the wireless companies working with us to protect the flying public and the country's supply chain,' said Buttigieg.

'The complex U.S. airspace leads the world in safety because of our high standards for aviation, and we will maintain this commitment as wireless companies deploy 5G,' he said in a statement.

The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) has warned that 5G wireless interference could affect sensitive airplane instruments such as radio altimeters, which are crucial aids to pilots landing in low-visibility operations.

Federal Communications Commission Chair Jessica Rosenworcel said in a statement the FAA 'has a process in place to assess altimeter performance in the 5G environment and resolve any remaining concerns. It is essential that the FAA now complete this process with both care and speed.'

The telecoms giants say they do not understand why the US has not been able to find a workaround when other countries have been able to launch.

The 5G signals that Verizon and AT&T want to emit are stronger than those in Europe.

Despite the delay, some international airlines are already canceling flights to the US out of an abundance of caution.

It's unclear how long the FAA and airlines now have to resolve their safety concerns.

AT&T is now demanding to know why the FAA - a government body - waited so long before sounding such alarm.
'We are frustrated by the FAA's inability to do what nearly 40 countries have done, which is to safely deploy 5G technology without disrupting aviation services, and we urge it do so in a timely manner.'

Despite the urgency conveyed by the CEOs of American Airlines, JetBlue, Delta Air Lines, United Airlines and Southwest Airlines, as well as officials from FedEx Express and UPS Airlines, Transport Secretary Buttigieg has yet to make a public statement about the issue ahead of Wednesday's rollout.

Of 88 airports that could be affected around the country, there are currently 50 with 5G buffers around them to reduce the interference of 5G.

The FAA has not named the remaining 38 affected airports.

Despite the buffer, the airports could still face 5G interference.

If any of the 88 airports experience bad weather, where altimeters are a necessity, the FAA and U.S. airlines said flights would be cancelled, diverted or delayed.

Allied Pilots Association spokesperson Dennis Tajer echoed the airlines' concerns and urged the cellular companies to push back the 5G rollout.

'This is reckless, it's dangerous, and it's got to stop,' Tajer told the Today Show on Tuesday.

'Take a pause. This is about a cellphone signal, and we're focused on protecting lives.'

The warning comes after airline International airports and airlines have also begun warning customers to check if their trips to the U.S. will be cancelled or delayed due to the 5G launch.

Although the FAA approved 48 of the 88 airports most directly affected by 5G to use two radio altimeters to avoid confusion on Sunday, it ultimately issued an order to all pilots to avoid using the instruments because they could still face issues.

The buffer zones call for the 5G towers to be located at least two miles away from airports and to limit the towers' heights.

'Even with the approvals granted by the FAA..., U.S. airlines will not be able to operate the vast majority of passenger and cargo flights due to the FAA's 5G-related flight restrictions unless action is taken prior to the planned January 19 rollout,' Airlines for America, which represents American Airlines, Delta Airlines and FedEx, told Reuters.

As of Tuesday morning, the stocks for American Airlines, United Airlines, JetBlue Airways and Southwest Airlines remained stable with a small upward trend.

AT&T and Verizon, which won nearly all of the C-Band spectrum in an $80 billion auction last year to launched their 5G services, had agreed to buffer zones around 50 airports to reduce interference risks and take other steps to cut potential interference for six months.

'Even with these new approvals, flights at some airports may still be affected,' the FAA warned in a statement.

'The FAA also continues to work with manufacturers to understand how radar altimeter data is used in other flight control systems. Passengers should check with their airlines if weather is forecast at a destination where 5G interference is possible.'

Despite the worries in America, 5G's possible effects on planes has not been a major concern in Europe.
Airline CEOs are calling for “immediate intervention” ahead of Wednesday’s 5G rollout, warning it may cause massive flight disruptions nationwide. @tomcostellonbc has the details. pic.twitter.com/KXr5ptCOuv
— TODAY (@TODAYshow) January 18, 2022
Last month, Britain's Civil Aviation Authority issued a statement that 5G emission's won't harm British airlines.

'Conversations with [national aviation authorities] has established that there have been no confirmed instances where 5G interference has resulted in aircraft system malfunction or unexpected behavior,' the agency said, adding that it will continue to monitor the issue.

AT&T and Verizon told DailyMail.com on Tuesday that they were not commenting on the issue at this time.

On Monday, the CEOs of American Airlines, JetBlue, Delta Air Lines, United Airlines and Southwest Airlines, as well as officials from FedEx Express and UPS Airlines, wrote a letter to government officials urging them to pause the launch of 5G.

The CEOs warned that a significant number of widebody aircrafts will become unusable and 'could potentially strand tens of thousands of Americans overseas.'
 

Heliobas Disciple

TB Fanatic
[CONTNUED]

'Unless our major hubs are cleared to fly, the vast majority of the traveling and shipping public will essentially be grounded,' the CEOs wrote.

'The harm that will result from deployment on January 19 is substantially worse than we anticipated for two key reasons,' they explained.

The CEOs also argued that because radio altimeters provide critical information to other safety and navigation systems in modern airplanes, multiple modern safety systems 'will be deemed unusable.'

'Airplane manufacturers have informed us that there are huge swaths of the operating fleet that may need to be indefinitely grounded.'

'The ripple effects across both passenger and cargo operations, our workforce and the broader economy are simply incalculable,' the CEOs wrote as they asked officials 'that 5G be implemented everywhere in the country except within the approximate 2 miles of airport runways' at some key airports.

'Immediate intervention is needed to avoid significant operational disruption to air passengers, shippers, supply chain and delivery of needed medical supplies.'

The carriers added they urge action to ensure '5G is deployed except when towers are too close to airport runways until the FAA can determine how that can be safely accomplished without catastrophic disruption.'

The letter, which was obtained by DailyMail.com, went to White House National Economic Council director Brian Deese, Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg, FAA Administrator Steve Dickson and Federal Communications Commission (FCC) Chairwoman Jessica Rosenworcel.

Airlines late on Monday were considering whether to begin canceling some international flights that are scheduled to arrive in the United States on Wednesday.

'With the proposed restrictions at selected airports, the transportation industry is preparing for some service disruption. We are optimistic that we can work across industries and with government to finalize solutions that safely mitigate as many schedule impacts as possible,' plane maker Boeing said.

United Airlines also separately warned on Monday that the issue could affect more than 15,000 of its flights, 1.25 million passengers and snarl tons of cargo annually.

United said it faces 'significant restrictions on 787s, 777s, 737s and regional aircraft in major cities like Houston, Newark, Los Angeles, San Francisco and Chicago.'

JetBlue Airways Chief Executive Officer Robin Hayes told employees on Monday that the planned rollout of new 5G service by AT&T and Verizon on Wednesday is set to 'further stress our already fragile air system.'

Hayes said in a memo that the airline is preparing for the 'worst' when the new service and new flight restrictions take effect.

'While we will do our best to avoid customer disruption, we won't be able to avoid the impact of this, including significant flight delays, cancellations, and diversions in low visibility flying,' Hayes wrote.

One area of concern is whether some or all Boeing 777s will be unable to land at some key U.S. airports after 5G service starts, as well as some Boeing cargo planes, airline officials told Reuters.

The airlines urged action to ensure '5G is deployed except when towers are too close to airport runways until the FAA can determine how that can be safely accomplished without catastrophic disruption.'

The FAA said on Sunday it had cleared an estimated 45% of the U.S. commercial airplane fleet to perform low-visibility landings at many airports where 5G C-band will be deployed and they expect to issue more approvals before Wednesday.
The airlines noted on Monday that the list did not include many large airports.

The CEOs of major airlines and Boeing Chief Executive Dave Calhoun held a lengthy call with Buttigieg and Dickson on Sunday to warn of the looming crisis, officials told Reuters.

But the issue doesn't just affect airplanes - they could also have a negative effect on the nation's helicopters, including lifesaving medevac choppers.

Under U.S. law, all commercial helicopters must have a working altimeter in order to fly. Without them, officials warn, landing in remote areas or on hospital landing pads will be near impossible.

Helicopter Association International petitioned the FAA in October asking for medevacs to be exempt from the law when 5G rolls out, and the FAA granted it last week for areas where 5G C-Band interference could affect the radio altimeter.
Airlines for America, the group that organized the letter, declined to comment.

The CEO's also complained that: 'Given the short time frame and the exigency of this completely avoidable economic calamity, we respectfully request you support and take whatever action necessary to ensure that 5G is deployed except when towers are too close to airport runways until the FAA can determine how that can be safely accomplished without catastrophic disruption.'

The FAA said it 'will continue to ensure that the traveling public is safe as wireless companies deploy 5G.

'The FAA continues to work with the aviation industry and wireless companies to try to limit 5G-related flight delays and cancellations.'

The other government agencies did not comment.

The U.K. CAA, the mobile phone industry and Ofcom released statements earlier this month in response to U.K. concerns. They said they did not share the worries of that in the U.S. at this stage.

A spokesperson for the CAA, the UK equivalent to the FAA, said: 'We are aware of reports that suggest that the frequency band being used for 5G in a number of countries could potentially pose a risk of interference with aircraft radio altimeters.

'There have been no reported incidents of aircraft systems being affected by 5G transmissions in U.K. airspace, but we are nonetheless working with Ofcom and the Ministry of Defense to make sure that the deployment of 5G in the U.K. does not cause any technical problems for aircraft.'

A spokesperson for Ofcom said: 'We're aware that the aviation sector is looking at this; we've done our own technical analysis and are yet to see any evidence that would give us cause for concern.'

Gareth Elliott, head of policy and communications at Mobile U.K., which represents mobile networks, said: 'The U.K.'s mobile network operators follow all health and safety guidelines and engage with a variety of industries on interference.

'Mobile operators are actively coordinating with the aviation authorities to ensure no interference in the U.K.'
 

Heliobas Disciple

TB Fanatic
[CONTINUED]

WHICH FLIGHTS HAVE BEEN CANCELED ALREADY?

EMIRATES
All Emirates flights to and from these airports are indefinitely canceled;
Boston, Chicago, Dallas-Fort Worth, Houston, Miami, Newark, New Jersey, Orlando, Florida, San Francisco and Seattle
The airline's flights to L.A.X., New York City and Dulles are still operating.

ALL NIPPON
20 passenger and cargo flights scheduled on Boeing 777s from Haneda and Narita airports in Japan to the US through Thursday.
The airline is advising passengers with tickets to check if they have been rescheduled to a flight on a different aircraft.

JAPAN AIRLINES
Japan Airlines has canceled three passenger and five cargo flights on Wednesday.

AIR INDIA
All flights between Delhi and from New York, San Francisco and Chicago, and between Mumbai and Newark are canceled until further notice.




The list of 50 airports with 5G buffers that should be protected

AUSTIN-BERGSTROM INTL
LAURENCE G HANSCOM FLD
BOEING FLD/KING COUNTY INTL
BIRMINGHAM-SHUTTLESWORTH INTL
NASHVILLE INTL
BOB HOPE
AKRON-CANTON
CHARLOTTE/DOUGLAS INTL
DALLAS LOVE FLD
DALLAS-FORT WORTH INTL
DETROIT METRO WAYNE COUNTY
ELLINGTON EWR NEWARK LIBERTY INTL
FRESNO YOSEMITE INTL
FORT LAUDERDALE/HOLLYWOOD INTL
FLINT MICHIGAN
WILLIAM P HOBBY
NEW HAVEN
GEORGE BUSH INTCNTL/HOUSTON
INDIANAPOLIS INTL
LONG ISLAND MAC ARTHUR
JOHN F KENNEDY INTL
HARRY REID INTL
LOS ANGELES INTL
LAGUARDIA
LONG BEACH (DAUGHERTY FLD)
KANSAS CITY INTL
ORLANDO INTL
HARRISBURG INTL
CHICAGO MIDWAY INTL
MCALLEN INTL
MIAMI INTL
MINNEAPOLIS-ST PAUL INTL/WOLD-CHAMBERLAIN
ONTARIO INTL
CHICAGO O'HARE INTL
SNOHOMISH COUNTY (PAINE FLD)
PALM BEACH INTL
PHILADELPHIA INTL
PHOENIX SKY HARBOR INTL
ST PETE-CLEARWATER INTL
PITTSBURGH INTL
RALEIGH-DURHAM INTL
FREDERICK DOUGLASS/GREATER ROCHESTER INTL
SEATTLE-TACOMA INTL
SAN FRANCISCO INTL
NORMAN Y MINETA SAN JOSE INTL
JOHN WAYNE/ORANGE COUNTY
ST LOUIS LAMBERT INTL
SYRACUSE HANCOCK INTL
TETERBORO


DOES 5G POSE A THREAT TO AIRLINE SAFETY?

The chief executives of major U.S. passenger and cargo airlines have warned of a 'catastrophic' aviation crisis this week as AT&T and Verizon deploy new 5G services.

They said the new C band 5G service set to begin on Wednesday could render a significant number of aircraft unusable, causing chaos for U.S. flights and potentially stranding tens of thousands of Americans overseas.

Here is the background to the dispute:

WHAT HAPPENED?

The United States auctioned mid-range 5G bandwidth to mobile phone companies in early 2021 in the 3.7-3.98 GHz range on the spectrum known as C band, for about $80 billion.

WHY IS THAT A PROBLEM?

The U.S. Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) has warned that the new 5G technology could interfere with instruments such as altimeters, which measure how far above the ground an airplane is travelling.

Altimeters operate in the 4.2-4.4 GHz range and the concern is that the auctioned frequencies sit too close to this range.
In addition to altitude, altimeter readouts are also used to facilitate automated landings and to help detect dangerous currents called wind shear.

United Airlines CEO Scott Kirby said last month the FAA's 5G directives would bar the use of radio altimeters at about 40 of the biggest U.S. airports.

U.S. airlines have warned the directives could disrupt up to 4% of daily flights.

Kirby said if left unresolved it could mean that at major U.S. airports in the event of bad weather, cloud cover or even heavy smog 'you could only do visual approaches essentially.'

WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES THE FREQUENCY MAKE?

The higher the frequency in the spectrum, the faster the service. So in order to get full value from 5G, operators want to operate at higher frequencies.

Some of the C band spectrum auctioned had been used for satellite radio but the transition to 5G means there will be much more traffic.

WHAT DO THE TELECOMS COMPANIES SAY?

Verizon and AT&T have argued that C band 5G has been deployed in about 40 other countries without aviation interference issues.

They have agreed to buffer zones around 50 airports in the United States, similar to those used in France, for six months to reduce interference risks.

WHY NOT AN ISSUE ELSEWHERE?

The European Union in 2019 set standards for mid-range 5G frequencies in a 3.4-3.8 GHz range, a lower frequency than the service set to be rolled out in the United States. The bandwidth has been auctioned in Europe and is in use in many of the bloc's 27 member states so far without issue.

The European Union Aviation Safety Agency (EASA), which oversees 31 states, said on Dec. 17 the issue was specific to U.S. airspace. 'At this stage, no risk of unsafe interference has been identified in Europe,' it said.

FAA officials have noted the spectrum used by France (3.6-3.8 GHz) sits further away from the spectrum (4.2-4.4 GHz) used for altimeters in the United States and France's power level for 5G is much lower than what is authorized in the United States.

Verizon has said it will not use spectrum that is closer to the higher band for several years.

In South Korea, the 5G mobile communication frequency is 3.42-3.7 GHz band and there has been no report of interference with radio wave since commercialization of 5G in April 2019.

Currently, 5G mobile communication wireless stations are in operation near airports, but there have been no reports of problems.

'Wireless carriers in nearly 40 countries throughout Europe and Asia now use the C band for 5G, with no reported effects on radio altimeters that operate in the same internationally designated 4.2-4.4 GHz band,' CTIA, a U.S. wireless trade group, said in a filing with the Federal Communications Commission.

-Reuters



What are US airlines worried about and could British planes be affected?

The debate about whether 5G has the potential to interfere with crucial aeroplane instruments is intense and unresolved.
What are the airlines worried about?

Airlines are concerned that the new 5G network could affect aircraft instruments including altimeters, which measure a plane's distance from the ground.

This is because both the new 5G network and the altimeters will operate at a similar wavelength.

What are the networks saying?

AT&T and Verizon say there is no evidence their new network will interfere with aircraft operating systems. They have previously delayed the rollout to allow for more research to take place.

What is the view in the UK and Europe?

5G is not seen as a problem for aircraft in Britain or Europe, according to the UK's Civil Aviation Authority (CAA), Ofcom and EU Aviation Safety Authority.

All three insist there is no evidence 5G interferes with aircraft systems. 5G in Europe is on a different wavelength, which is seen as less likely to affect planes than the one used in America.




THE EVOLUTION OF MOBILE BROADBAND UP TO 5G

The evolution of the G system started in 1980 with the invention of the mobile phone which allowed for analogue data to be transmitted via phone calls.

Digital came into play in 1991 with 2G and SMS and MMS capabilities were launched.

Since then, the capabilities and carrying capacity for the mobile network has increased massively.

More data can be transferred from one point to another via the mobile network quicker than ever.

5G is expected to be 100 times faster than the currently used 4G.

Whilst the jump from 3G to 4G was most beneficial for mobile browsing and working, the step to 5G will be so fast they become almost real-time.

That means mobile operations will be just as fast as office-based internet connections.

Potential uses for 5G include:
  • Simultaneous translation of several languages in a party conference call
  • Self-driving cars can stream movies, music and navigation information from the cloud
  • A full length 8GB film can be downloaded in six seconds.
5G is expected to be so quick and efficient it is possible it could start the end of wired connections.

By the end of 2020, industry estimates claim 50 billion devices will be connected to 5G.
 

TammyinWI

Talk is cheap
I live a mile outside an international airport and have 5g.

What they are turning on today is amped up big-time. The decision came down that some major airports will not have it activated in a two-mile range from them.

This is going to be mortifyingly bad.
 

TammyinWI

Talk is cheap
Yeah.

What good is a two week extension of this is really a concern ?

Well, more people got the vaxx in that time.

I am sold, big-time that they planned the vax with this on purpose. They know what they are doing...for their evil agenda.

COVFEFE

Fe2+ binds iron responsive element-RNA, selectively changing protein-binding affinities and regulating mRNA repression and activation

Magnetic interactions in graphene decorated with iron oxide nanoparticles
 

glennb6

Inactive
Well>>>>if this is not a comforting thought, I just don't know what is!!

I guess not enough people were killed by the vax, so they had to come up with something that would kill hundreds and have the effect of bombs falling out of the sky for "fly over country!!"
airplanes dropping like soccer players who are dropping like flies...
 

Millwright

Knuckle Dragger
_______________
Some foreign carriers cancel flights to U.S. over concerns about 5G rollout

Jan. 19 (UPI) — Several carriers announced cancellations or modifications for flights to the United States on Wednesday due to concerns that the rollout of new 5G cellular services near some airports will interfere with aviation technologies.
The 5G networks use “C-band frequencies,” which is similar in some ways to what’s used by airplanes to measure altitude.
Some airlines have said it could interfere with a plane’s instruments — but cellular providers say the aviation industry has had years to upgrade equipment and prepare for the rollout.

British Airways said Wednesday that it’s canceled flights from London’s Heathrow to airports in San Francisco, Boston, Chicago, Los Angeles and New York City.

“Safety is always our priority,” the carrier said, according to the Evening Standard. “We are monitoring the situation in the U.S. closely and will continue to review our schedule.”

AT&T and Verizon both said on Tuesday that they would delay activating 5G towers at certain airports, but expressed frustration toward the FAA over a lack of preparedness. File Photo by James Atoa/UPI
Other carriers, including Emirates, Lufthansa and Air India, have also canceled or changed flights to the United States over the 5G rollout.

Atlanta-based Delta Air Lines says it will plan for possible cancellations as soon as Wednesday due to 5G service in the vicinity of numerous U.S. airports.

AT&T and Verizon both said on Tuesday that they would delay activating 5G towers at certain airports, but expressed frustration toward the Federal Aviation Administration.
The White House praised the decision and said the pause will give the government, airlines and telecommunication companies more time to figure out a “way forward.”

“This agreement will avoid potentially devastating disruptions to passenger travel, cargo operations, and our economic recovery, while allowing more than 90% of wireless tower deployment to occur as scheduled,” the White House said in a statement.

“My team has been engaging non-stop with the wireless carriers, airlines, and aviation equipment manufacturers to chart a path forward for 5G deployment and aviation to safely co-exist — and, at my direction, they will continue to do so until we close the remaining gap and reach a permanent, workable solution around these key airports.”

 

Chance

Veteran Member
So did Biden delay the 5g rollout now?

Japan, India, and Emirates airlines cancelling flights to the US over 5G activation near airports. Mayor Pete AWOL Biden says Verizon and AT&T will now indefinitely delay rollout - what did he offer them?

View: https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1483816739607613446?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw


 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
I don't know all the ins and outs of this, but my understanding is this issue came up at the time the bandwidth was sold-off but was totally ignored - money talks.

The US allows 5G signals that are multiples higher than most countries (I forget exactly but it is a lot higher) and the Europeans at least use a slightly different bandwidth for planes as well.

So basically the airlines were just fine until their frequencies were essentially sold out from under them (or close enough to affect them) and the magical thinking was that someone the Airlines and Airports would just find a workaround.

Now, I'm not sure with the very high 5G signals that there is an easy workaround, that technology is beyond my understanding.

But it is complicated and not an easy thing to solve quickly.
 

TammyinWI

Talk is cheap
So did Biden delay the 5g rollout now?

Japan, India, and Emirates airlines cancelling flights to the US over 5G activation near airports. Mayor Pete AWOL Biden says Verizon and AT&T will now indefinitely delay rollout - what did he offer them?

View: https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1483816739607613446?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw



That is what I am wondering! I actually feel pretty good today! Darn good! I am thankful, and hope and pray that it is not the "calm before the storm."
 

jward

passin' thru
That is what I am wondering! I actually feel pretty good today! Darn good! I am thankful, and hope and pray that it is not the "calm before the storm."

I feel awful, physically--- does this 5g give us twisted tummies and assorted aches?
.. & So happy to see you're new avatar, now I can put my old one back on
:: starts to happy dance n trips o'er my heating pad cords ::
 

TammyinWI

Talk is cheap
I feel awful, physically--- does this 5g give us twisted tummies and assorted aches?
.. & So happy to see you're new avatar, now I can put my old one back on
:: starts to happy dance n trips o'er my heating pad cords ::

I am so sorry to know that you are having a rough time. Prayers for you! I know how that is, and believe me: good question. I say that yes, it can, and so does articles from cred sources that they want to censor now. I had researched this extensively starting years ago, and was mortified, and the sources who who blew whistles listed a whole gamut of things like that.

I am praying against it a lot- several times a day, and I am going to continue to, not for just anywhere near me, but also around the whole globe, and that it is inflicted in bounce-back style in great intensity onto the senders and those complicit, so they SHUT IT OFF!

I like yer new avatar, too! and thank you! Be careful around those cords, no trippin' allowed! :) Hope you are feeling much better!
 

alfa1

Contributing Member
Let’s take a look. 5G has been rolled out in Europe and Asia, No a word about problems with commercial Aviation interferenc, what up with the hysterical frenzy fed to the US population? I guess its the typical Powers that be keeping the sheep fearful of something…
 

Sammy55

Veteran Member
Let’s take a look. 5G has been rolled out in Europe and Asia, No a word about problems with commercial Aviation interferenc, what up with the hysterical frenzy fed to the US population? I guess its the typical Powers that be keeping the sheep fearful of something…
I don't understand all of this 5G stuff, but from what I'm reading, it has to do with airwave frequencies. Many people are really sensitive to different frequencies. Just like some animals are. So higher frequencies can affect many people's health, even if they don't realize it totally or understand what is causing their health issues. I know a few people who have headaches or digestive issues who blame it on the local radio or microwave towers.

Read Melodie's post above (#28) for some of the answer to the problems of airlines in Europe and Asia versus the U.S. Here's a snippet of what she said. I also don't understand all of the technical language of 5G, but Melodie dumbs it down enough to understand:

"The US allows 5G signals that are multiples higher than most countries (I forget exactly but it is a lot higher) and the Europeans at least use a slightly different bandwidth for planes as well.

So basically the airlines were just fine until their frequencies were essentially sold out from under them (or close enough to affect them) and the magical thinking was that someone the Airlines and Airports would just find a workaround.

Now, I'm not sure with the very high 5G signals that there is an easy workaround, that technology is beyond my understanding.

But it is complicated and not an easy thing to solve quickly."

So basically, what I understand from this is that U.S. 5g is many times higher and stronger than most other countries, so their aircraft (and ours) will probably have problems with their technical equipment which relies on radio signals. I'm guessing if the radio signal frequencies are tampered with, we may end up with aircraft that cannot be controlled very well, or pilots who believe their instruments when they shouldn't as the instrument readings have been compromised. This is bad when many pilots are trained to fly only using instrument readings instead of by using manual controls. This may lead to aircraft that literally will fall out of the skies as the pilots rely on the instruments and set their aircraft to fly by instrument readings.

I don't know if this helped or if I'm reading the situation right, but this is what I've taken out of this situation.
 

Kris Gandillon

The Other Curmudgeon
_______________
AT&T turned on 5G nationwide (APPROXIMATELY 5,000 TOWERS) at 12:01am Wednesday morning EXCEPT FOR 500 TOWERS CLOSEST TO THE AIRPORTS IN QUESTION.
 

jward

passin' thru
Thank you Tammy, for your concern, and kindness in answering my question.
... I hope you're feeling better as well!

I am so sorry to know that you are having a rough time. Prayers for you! I know how that is, and believe me: good question. I say that yes, it can, and so does articles from cred sources that they want to censor now. I had researched this extensively starting years ago, and was mortified, and the sources who who blew whistles listed a whole gamut of things like that.

I am praying against it a lot- several times a day, and I am going to continue to, not for just anywhere near me, but also around the whole globe, and that it is inflicted in bounce-back style in great intensity onto the senders and those complicit, so they SHUT IT OFF!

I like yer new avatar, too! and thank you! Be careful around those cords, no trippin' allowed! :) Hope you are feeling much better!
 

Kris Gandillon

The Other Curmudgeon
_______________
U.S. 5g is many times higher and stronger than most other countries.
What do you mean by "higher?" What do you mean by "stronger?"

Power-wise, I saw a graphic that did show the US running at 2.5 times the transmit power of France but the related article seemed to imply that France was running at a lower power than the rest of the world so if that is the case, the US and the rest of the world are likely running at similar power levels with France being the one that is different.
 

Sammy55

Veteran Member
What do you mean by "higher?" What do you mean by "stronger?"

Power-wise, I saw a graphic that did show the US running at 2.5 times the transmit power of France but the related article seemed to imply that France was running at a lower power than the rest of the world so if that is the case, the US and the rest of the world are likely running at similar power levels with France being the one that is different.
Don't know as I don't understand it all. Just going by what I've read and by Melodie's post that U.S. 5 G is higher than other countries. If you understand this subject, maybe you can put it into words that the "non-geeks" among us would understand as to why the aircraft are afraid of this. I just put it in a way I could understand and hoped I was getting the basics right. But I'm teachable and ready to learn if someone can explain more!
 

bw

Fringe Ranger
Now, I'm not sure with the very high 5G signals that there is an easy workaround, that technology is beyond my understanding.

Loup sounded fairly confident about slapping filters on the planes. But messing with avionics tends to be very slow and sticky, particularly with everyone prickly after the Boeing software-crashing-planes thing. This seems like a major problem to me.
 

Kris Gandillon

The Other Curmudgeon
_______________
Don't know as I don't understand it all. Just going by what I've read and by Melodie's post that U.S. 5 G is higher than other countries. If you understand this subject, maybe you can put it into words that the "non-geeks" among us would understand as to why the aircraft are afraid of this. I just put it in a way I could understand and hoped I was getting the basics right. But I'm teachable and ready to learn if someone can explain more!
This topic has been discussed on numerous threads for the last 2-3 years and several times recently. Not going to repeat it again here on this thread. The "higher and stronger" is what caught my eye and needed clarification on what was meant as those terms (especially "higher") don't really relate to the topic being discussed (the 5G / altimeter interference topic).

ETA: The basic issue is that the 5G C-Band that they lit up yesterday across the nation i(except for around some airports) is close (just below) the frequency range used by the radar altimeter and there is fear that the 5G C-Band could interfere with the radar altimeter as a result. In a perfect world it would not. There is a 200 Mhz gap between the frequency ranges. But if the electronics are a bit sloppy, and the signal doesn't stay exactly within the frequency range due to numerous possible technical issues there COULD be potential interference.
 
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Kris Gandillon

The Other Curmudgeon
_______________
Loup sounded fairly confident about slapping filters on the planes. But messing with avionics tends to be very slow and sticky, particularly with everyone prickly after the Boeing software-crashing-planes thing. This seems like a major problem to me.
Yes. The FAA would likely require re-certification of the altimeter with the filter, on a plane model by plane model basis. Process would take months, if not years.
 
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