INTL US Intelligence Reveals Why China’s Xi Took A Sledgehammer To His Military

Kathy in FL

Administrator
_______________
I'm not particularly inclined to believe this whole cloth. Way too convenient a way to get people to stop worrying about a US/China conflict, whether it is over Taiwan or something else.


US Intelligence Reveals Why China’s Xi Took A Sledgehammer To His Military

U.S. intelligence has revealed why Chinese President Xi Jinping restructured his military cabinet, Bloomberg reported on Saturday.

Xi spent months in 2023 firing more than a dozen of his top military brass in China’s People’s Liberation Army and Rocket Force, some of whom “vanished” in the months leading to their firing or in the months after. Xi did this to root out widespread corruption and graft within his ranks that had greatly weakened China’s military, U.S. intelligence believes, according to people with close knowledge on the matter who spoke to Bloomberg.

Examples include a network of Chinese missile silos that were built so shoddily a missile could not be launched from them, according to Bloomberg. Some missiles couldn’t launch at all because their fuel tanks were filled with water instead.

Other examples include “leaking information” to outside actors and conflicts of interest in securing bids for certain companies, according to Bloomberg.

So great is the damage done to the PLA through corruption that Xi is less likely to launch a major military operation in years to come, according to Bloomberg. China’s biggest weakness in this case is its Rocket Force, which was a priority for Xi because it would play a key role in a Taiwan invasion.

The National People’s Congress, China’s legislative branch, ousted nine defense officials on Dec. 29, some of whom were in the PLA’s missile or armament corps, according to Bloomberg. China’s legislative advisory fired three state-missile developers days prior.

Chinese former defense minister and Rocket Force commander Gen. Li Shangfu was removed from his position in October; at that point, he had not been seen for months or in the months following. His removal was followed by another Rocket Force Commander’s expulsion in November, according to Bloomberg. It may be the biggest military shakeup in China’s modern history, according to Bloomberg.

Despite the revelation, U.S. intelligence still struggles to understand what is happening behind closed doors in Beijing’s government or what Xi’s plans long-term really are. “We have no real insight into leadership plans and intentions in China at all,” a former senior intelligence official with recent knowledge on the matter told the WSJ in December.

The White House National Security Council did not immediately respond to the Daily Caller News Foundation’s request for comment.
 

Blacknarwhal

Let's Go Brandon!
Yeah Kathy in FL, such disinformation is right out of Sun Tzu's text....

I'm inclined to believe. Ever heard of "tofu dregs"? China is not some magical super-state that can do no wrong yet conveniently "allows" tales of mass failures in bridge projects and buildings and everything else to slip just to fool the wary.

This is less "Sun Tzu" and more "Fu Manchu."

Behold the Asian Wakanda at work. 8:01

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USzMuewAfJA
 

Blacknarwhal

Let's Go Brandon!

Mark D

Now running for Emperor.
Given the shoddy state of their Strategic Grain Reserves/Roads/Buildings/Power Grid/Municipal Funds distribution/etc, I can believe that their military is governed by the same crappy graft/fraud-ridden processes
 

BadMedicine

Would *I* Lie???
No, THIS is how you stop worrying about a US-China conflict.

5:30 The mighty Chinese army in tears before going to fight India.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyxnGYkzL0g&t=98s
I'd be in tears too if some commie dicatators were sending me as a pawn into some BS border dispute for their future riches. Be undraftable. My first shot would be the one pointing me to the meat grinder. I'll fight the commies when they get here...


Looks like disinfo from the US side too "we have no idea what they're doing" BS, all commies can be bought,
 

Thinwater

Firearms Manufacturer
Russia found out the same thing, that top brass had been pocketing money when it was supposed to purchase things that no one thought would actually be used. China is getting ahead of this deficiency before actually trying to use their weapons.
 

Wyominglarry

Veteran Member
I think China will attack Taiwan this year. Xi knows if Trump gets elected that he will impose tariffs and play hardball. If the Chinese people are staving and unemployed than what a great excuse for Xi to focus their attention and anger from domestic problems to a war with Taiwan and the US. Xi can than blame the lack of jobs and food on America.
 

Blacknarwhal

Let's Go Brandon!
I'd be in tears too if some commie dicatators were sending me as a pawn into some BS border dispute for their future riches. Be undraftable. My first shot would be the one pointing me to the meat grinder. I'll fight the commies when they get here...


Looks like disinfo from the US side too "we have no idea what they're doing" BS, all commies can be bought,

And if they're like that fighting India, what would they be like fighting on US soil, where there would STILL be a rifle behind every blade of grass? Nothing against India; I've heard about what the Gurkhas can do. But invading the US would be even worse, I figure.
 

Macgyver

Has No Life - Lives on TB
The amount of fraud and grift in China makes US politicians jealous.

This does not surprise me at all and I guarantee it's wide spread.

Look at that massive dam they built that's already falling apart.
 

Griz3752

Retired, practising Curmudgeon
I'm with KiF - smells more like a smoke screen - misdirection to me
 
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ainitfunny

Saved, to glorify God.
A bit heavy handed , but justified, in my opinion, if you want to keep any kind of military readiness.
 

Countrymouse

Country exile in the city
I'm not particularly inclined to believe this whole cloth. Way too convenient a way to get people to stop worrying about a US/China conflict, whether it is over Taiwan or something else.


US Intelligence Reveals Why China’s Xi Took A Sledgehammer To His Military

U.S. intelligence has revealed why Chinese President Xi Jinping restructured his military cabinet, Bloomberg reported on Saturday.

Xi spent months in 2023 firing more than a dozen of his top military brass in China’s People’s Liberation Army and Rocket Force, some of whom “vanished” in the months leading to their firing or in the months after. Xi did this to root out widespread corruption and graft within his ranks that had greatly weakened China’s military, U.S. intelligence believes, according to people with close knowledge on the matter who spoke to Bloomberg.

Examples include a network of Chinese missile silos that were built so shoddily a missile could not be launched from them, according to Bloomberg. Some missiles couldn’t launch at all because their fuel tanks were filled with water instead.

Other examples include “leaking information” to outside actors and conflicts of interest in securing bids for certain companies, according to Bloomberg.

So great is the damage done to the PLA through corruption that Xi is less likely to launch a major military operation in years to come, according to Bloomberg. China’s biggest weakness in this case is its Rocket Force, which was a priority for Xi because it would play a key role in a Taiwan invasion.

The National People’s Congress, China’s legislative branch, ousted nine defense officials on Dec. 29, some of whom were in the PLA’s missile or armament corps, according to Bloomberg. China’s legislative advisory fired three state-missile developers days prior.

Chinese former defense minister and Rocket Force commander Gen. Li Shangfu was removed from his position in October; at that point, he had not been seen for months or in the months following. His removal was followed by another Rocket Force Commander’s expulsion in November, according to Bloomberg. It may be the biggest military shakeup in China’s modern history, according to Bloomberg.

Despite the revelation, U.S. intelligence still struggles to understand what is happening behind closed doors in Beijing’s government or what Xi’s plans long-term really are. “We have no real insight into leadership plans and intentions in China at all,” a former senior intelligence official with recent knowledge on the matter told the WSJ in December.

The White House National Security Council did not immediately respond to the Daily Caller News Foundation’s request for comment.
how does one say "What a crock of...." in Chinese?
 

Countrymouse

Country exile in the city
Given the shoddy state of their Strategic Grain Reserves/Roads/Buildings/Power Grid/Municipal Funds distribution/etc, I can believe that their military is governed by the same crappy graft/fraud-ridden processes
I don't doubt this.

But I've been watching the Communists since my girlhood in the 60s--and Communists DO NOT ADMIT weakness. If they ARE doing so---it's a case of "look! squirrel!"
 

Countrymouse

Country exile in the city
Behold the drinking water of the New Colossus.

17:50, Chinese drinking water.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNfSn0m4Zvs
Key at the 10:11 mark-- the government focuses only on the "GDP" and economic progress-- thus factories / businesses can do ANYTHING, and get no / insignificant slap-on-the-wrist fines for polluting water and air.

They are killing THEMSELVES to prove to the world communism works and how successful they are.
 

Countrymouse

Country exile in the city
Behold the drinking water of the New Colossus.

17:50, Chinese drinking water.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNfSn0m4Zvs
13:35 mark:

Current water "not meeting water standards" in China (and even these standards are "watered-down"):

11.7% of reservoir water
70% of lake water
and 60% of ground water

Some lakes are so poisonous that even flies and mosquitoes will not go near the "water"

Hey Greta--where are you?
 
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Knoxville's Joker

Has No Life - Lives on TB
13:35 mark:

Current water "not meeting water standards" in China (and even these standards are "watered-down"):

11.7% of reservoir water
70% of lake water
and 60% of ground water
Most of it goes back to the fact that they do not have a strong version of the EPA, and have not had to go through the transformation that the US did in the 60s/70s with the passage of the clean waters act...
 

Countrymouse

Country exile in the city
Most of it goes back to the fact that they do not have a strong version of the EPA, and have not had to go through the transformation that the US did in the 60s/70s with the passage of the clean waters act...
Not so, I'm afraid.

They HAVE 'clean water' laws.

But per the video, they only test "Specified" areas of given lakes / streams, and then declare the sample "ok per current standards" for that one sample---in other words, they make no claim for the REST of the water.

ALL that matters is industry and the economy booming, to make the communist govt look successful (on paper)
 

Knoxville's Joker

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Not so, I'm afraid.

They HAVE 'clean water' laws.

But per the video, they only test "Specified" areas of given lakes / streams, and then declare the sample "ok per current standards" for that one sample---in other words, they make no claim for the REST of the water.

ALL that matters is industry and the economy booming, to make the communist govt look successful (on paper)
Again it goes back to they do not have a good counter for the laziness and corruption. Plus they have not learned that you can't test just one area, you have to test all around. But the CCP is all about image, not about fixing the actual problems...
 

Blacknarwhal

Let's Go Brandon!
Key at the 10:11 mark-- the government focuses only on the "GDP" and economic progress-- thus factories / businesses can do ANYTHING, and get no / insignificant slap-on-the-wrist fines for polluting water and air.

They are killing THEMSELVES to prove to the world communism works and how successful they are.

And yet there are people who actually believe China will conquer the United States.
 

medic38572

TB Fanatic
And if they're like that fighting India, what would they be like fighting on US soil, where there would STILL be a rifle behind every blade of grass? Nothing against India; I've heard about what the Gurkhas can do. But invading the US would be even worse, I figure.
Well, I understand what you are saying, and this may seem a stupid thought, but then I think if the Chinese invade us it is perpetrated by not only the Chinese but with the approval of the present-day government as an ally considering all the things that have been allowed to occur during the last 3 years. Everything done in the last 3 years, let alone the last 30 shows the People of the United States of America are the enemy of their Government now. They want us dead to carry out their agenda.
 

Blacknarwhal

Let's Go Brandon!
Well, I understand what you are saying, and this may seem a stupid thought, but then I think if the Chinese invade us it is perpetrated by not only the Chinese but with the approval of the present-day government as an ally considering all the things that have been allowed to occur during the last 3 years. Everything done in the last 3 years, let alone the last 30 shows the People of the United States of America are the enemy of their Government now. They want us dead to carry out their agenda.

Yes, it likely would. But what would that mean? They'd manage to take California, maybe the West Coast, and then it becomes clear that the army won't be fighting them. That's when all the good ole boys head for Vegas to kill every yellow person they see. And quite possibly a few other minorities in the process. Because, after all, the army is clearly sitting on its collective hands.
 

medic38572

TB Fanatic
Yes, it likely would. But what would that mean? They'd manage to take California, maybe the West Coast, and then it becomes clear that the army won't be fighting them. That's when all the good ole boys head for Vegas to kill every yellow person they see. And quite possibly a few other minorities in the process. Because, after all, the army is clearly sitting on its collective hands.
It is not just California, they will come from Canada who has been training them in Cold Weather Warfare, they will come from Mexico where they have been hiding for years. They will come from inside the USA where they have been allowed to come in illegally for several years, with people alleging there are millions now of military-aged men of different nationalities who hate The USA and what they stand for. And you think our young people will join the fight? Look at the kids today vs when we were kids! I don't doubt there will be many to help, but I don't doubt for one minute that many will just give up and roll over on everyone they know. The kids of today are not the kids we were fearing God, and loving their Country and family. Things are not the same.
 

Ractivist

Pride comes before the fall.....Pride month ended.
Is it the water, or covid....................... I suspect the water is the new covid in china.....watch it mutate....as time goes by.
 

Housecarl

On TB every waking moment
Hummmm.......

Posted for fair use......

CHINA

Water in Chinese missiles’ tanks is a fake story​

The idea that water is substituted for fuel is preposterous: Corrosion-prone rockets are kept empty until needed

By STEPHEN BRYEN JANUARY 9, 2024

According to what Bloomberg News describes as a US intelligence report, Chinese authorities discovered that some of their missiles’ fuel tanks were filled with water – and that this was a marquee example of corruption whose unraveling led to Chinese President Xi’s recent military purge.

Bloomberg reported that it got the information from unnamed people who were “familiar with” a US intelligence assessment and that those US sources also said that new Xinjiang missile field silos were fitted with lids that were not installed properly and would not work – taken as another example of corruption.

Pentagon officials and “experts” are telling the press that the import of the twin tales is that China is weak and cannot fight. Yet the sources “familiar with” the intelligence say they cannot validate the information they provided Bloomberg.

The leaked “intelligence” that Bloomberg cites as its ultimate source leads inexorably to major questions. Under close examination the claims cited in the report seem to be fake.

The story is technically naive when it comes to China’s missiles. China does not keep its liquid-fueled rockets filled with propellant. This means they are empty sitting in silos. If fuel was stored in a rocket booster the internal tanks and plumbing would soon be ruined by corrosion. The military fuels them if there are warning conditions requiring loading the missiles with fuel.

There would be no reason to put water in the missiles unless it was deliberate sabotage. If it was deliberate sabotage China would not just be purging this or that official, they would have been arrested, tried and shot. Sabotage or destruction of strategic nuclear missiles is a very serious crime and would be met by the harshest measures. The idea that some officials would just be dismissed from their job is not a response to anything of this level of criminal significance. Those guilty of such crimes would be subjected to the harshest measures.

The second part of the story apparently is focused on the Hami missile field. The claim is that the lids of the silos are not fitted for operation. But if there were no missiles yet for these silos, there would be no reason to fit them to function with installed missiles. Unfortunately, we do not know the status of these missile fields at present, although the Pentagon may know.

We do have photos of work being done on these silos in 2021, but the excavated areas are covered by tented structures (DOD experts call them domes), so you can’t see the covers or anything else. It would not be unreasonable to think the domes could still be there until the missiles are ready for installation. (Some of the silos are likely to never be filled with real missiles, but will be decoys.)

It is now well known that Xi Jinping uses corruption probes to root out his competitors and anyone that he thinks is a threat to his leadership. The purge of military and defense officials goes beyond just the Rocket Force and reaches into the PLA and as far up as the two previous defense ministers. It also includes some in the army, the submarine force and the Air Force.

Not just generals and ministers are being purged but also officers at the working level. Reaching down far into the ranks would seem odd unless the military officers are tied to politicians Xi wants to eliminate.

Water in missiles and bad silo lids comprise a fake story covering up the real political reasons behind Xi’s purge.

If the intelligence fellows cannot confirm the story, then “someone” told them. The only people who would try and sell this story are the Xi clique. Without their imprimatur, an effort would be made on the US side to confirm the information. I think US intelligence got it straight from the Chinese, who sought to explain to the Americans why Xi was cracking down on the military.

As I understand it from a number of serious China experts, the corruption stuff is the accusation being used in the ongoing power struggle. I think Xi is in some trouble.

Although the Chinese say the purges are because of corruption, that is almost impossible to believe. Most of the people purged are not put on trial, and one of the reasons is that there isn’t evidence.

The Pentagon could see a problem with the silo lids through overhead photography. But photography apparently has nothing to do with this story. Instead, it seems, the intelligence guys and their DOD customers just swallowed the whole fish: Well, you know, China is corrupt and this is the evidence.


You don’t get convictions with second-hand unattributed information, nor do you base your defense strategy around hokum.

Let’s conclude with a few facts that we actually know to be facts.

Known knowns

It is true that since 2021 China has been constructing a new missile launch site in eastern Xinjiang province at a place called Hami.

It is one of three silo-based launch sites in China. The others are at Yuman and Jilantai, although the Jilantai site is regarded as a training base. The Pentagon has been laser-focused on the new Hami site because it represents potentially a significant increase in China’s long range strategic rocket forces and could possibly signal a change in China’s nuclear doctrine.

HamiYumenTubes.jpg

Altogether, China “has 120 silos under construction at Yumen, another 110 silos at Hami, a dozen silos at Jilantai, and possibly more silos being added in existing DF-5 deployment areas, the People’s Liberation Army Rocket Force (PLARF) appears to have approximately 250 silos under construction,” according to the Federation of American Scientists. Given that China has only around 20 DF-5s in service, it will take many years before these silos can be filled.


In 1966 China established its Second Artillery Corps with responsibility for its emerging strategic rocket forces. For many years the Second Artillery Corps was directed technologically by the National Defense Science and Technology Commission. In recent years that guidance was shifted to the General Armaments Department. Under Xi Jinping the Second Artillery Corps became the People’s Liberation Army Rocket Force, the 4th Branch of the People’s Liberation Army. It is responsible for all nuclear and conventional missiles.

Leaders of the Rocket Force serve in the National People’s Congress. Recently, nine high-ranking PLA officers have been purged from the Congress, removing legal protections from prosecution, one of the benefits of membership in the body. The majority of those purged reportedly came from the rocket force.

China’s long-range strategic nuclear missiles are almost all still liquid-fueled, although China is shifting to solid-fuel rockets. Some of China’s rockets are road-mobile, meaning they are not in silos or confined to launch fields. These rockets are mostly solid-fueled but most of them are not intercontinental in range.

The most important of China’s strategic rockets is the DF-5 (Dongfeng 5 or East Wind 5). The DF-5 is a two-stage intercontinental ballistic missile with a range of 7,000 to 10,000 km. The most recent version of this missile, the DF-5B, is said to have a MIRV (Multiple Independently Targetable Reentry Vehicle) warhead, although it is not known if this has been implemented on many installed systems.

As of 2017 there were about 20 of these missiles in service. The DF-5 reportedly is still in production although it is slated to eventually be replaced by the DF-41.

Reportedly it takes 30 to 60 minutes to fuel a DF-5. China’s DF-4 and DF-5 boosters use unsymmetrical dimethylhydrazine instead of liquid oxygen for fuel because it is easily stored. At present, and prior to China actually having an intercontinental solid-fueled strategic rocket capability, China does not have a true launch-on-warning system, although defense experts believe they are moving in that direction, developing new long-range solid-fuel missiles such as the DF-31 and DF-41. The DF-41 is intended as a road-mobile system. The DF-31 carries only a single warhead.

Stephen Bryen, who served as staff director of the Near East Subcommittee of the
US Senate Foreign Relations Committee and as a deputy undersecretary of defense
for policy, currently is a senior fellow at the Center for Security Policy and the Yorktown Institute.
 

mistaken1

Has No Life - Lives on TB
I'm not particularly inclined to believe this whole cloth. Way too convenient a way to get people to stop worrying about a US/China conflict, whether it is over Taiwan or something else.

snip

At this point I do not believe there is any truth coming out of any western 'intelligence' agency. As far as I am concerned every statement or release of information is all lies designed to shape a false narrative to drive the populace's behavior in such a way that it benefits the global elite and their plans for world-wide dictatorship.
 

night driver

ESFP adrift in INTJ sea
That crying troop is on his way to fight in a VERY INHOSPITABLE place. Local altitudes will run between 10Kft and 25Kft where winter lasts 7 months, and most weather is *U*G*L*Y*!!
 
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