WAR US AIR FORCE INCAPABLE OF LAUNCHING NUCLEAR WEAPONS?

Doomer Doug

TB Fanatic
:screw:

I am unsure how the USA allowed itself to degrade its Nuclear Forces to this point. It confirms my opinion that USA news is best covered in the British media. The story on Holder's Fast and Furious, as well as this one on the collapse of our Nuclear Forces, should be front page in the US media. They are hidden and are only really covered overseas. We have spent our military budgets since 1991 on fighting wars in Iraq and Afghanistan that cost us several trillion dollars. Meanwhile, our basic infrastructure falls apart while we waste money on endless war in the Middle East. Russia has been spending money to upgrade their nuclear strike forces. We have allowed ours to wither away. nuff said.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...decay-Air-Force-s-atomic-weapons-command.html



Could the US even launch a nuclear missile if it wanted to? Critics point to growing alarm at decay of Air Force's atomic weapons command

By Associated Press

Published: 09:57 EST, 20 December 2014 | Updated: 12:11 EST, 20 December 2014



Faced with one of its biggest challenges in years - repairing a troubled nuclear missile corps - the Air Force has taken an important first step by admitting, after years of denial, that its problems run deep and wide.

Less certain is whether it will find all the right fixes, apply them fully and convince a doubting force of launch officers, security guards and other nuclear workers that their small and narrow career field is not a dead end.

The stakes are huge.The nation's strategy for deterring nuclear war rests in part on the 450 Minuteman 3 missiles that stand ready, 24/7, to launch at a moment's notice from underground silos in five states.

Some question the wisdom of that strategy in an era of security threats dominated by terrorism and cyberattacks. But whatever their role, those intercontinental ballistic missiles, or ICBMs, will have to be safeguarded for years to come.


Concerns: Some critics have asked if America's Minuteman III missiles are even capable of taking off should the President order a nuclear strike


The responsibility is enormous, the cost of mistakes potentially colossal. The business end of these missiles can deliver mass destruction with breathtaking speed.

Accidents, though rare, are an ever-present worry.That's why it can be disquieting to hear missile officers describe their unhappiness and lack of faith in nuclear force leaders.In sworn testimony to investigators looking into allegations that two ICBM commanders at Minot Air Force Base in North Dakota, were mistreating their subordinates, one officer spoke of deep pessimism.

"I go about most of my days wishing I was in another place, in another Air Force field," the officer said, according to a copy of investigation testimony provided in September and obtained by The Associated Press under the Freedom of Information Act.

The officer's name was removed from the document by Air Force censors citing privacy protection.The belated admission by the Air Force and the Pentagon's civilian leaders, after a series of AP stories revealing the issue, that the nuclear force is suffering from years of neglect, mismanagement and weak morale has yielded opposing interpretations of what it means.Some, including experts who are critical of the Air Force, say it makes more obvious the need to invest billions to modernize the force.

The flaws are fixable, they say. They cite a resurgent Russia and a belligerent North Korea as reasons to make the added investment to ensure that America's nuclear force is revitalized.Subscribing to this view, Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel announced on Nov. 14 that the Pentagon would make top-to-bottom changes - more than 100 in all - in how the nuclear force is managed and operated. He said the Pentagon would spend up to $10 billion more over six years to improve the force.

Ten days later Hagel announced his resignation, leaving questions about follow-through.The opposing view is that this moment presents an opportunity to reconsider and restructure the nuclear force, possibly eliminating the ICBMs while enhancing the remaining sea- and air-launched nuclear forces.

That view, however, is not predominant in the Obama administration, which favors the policy embraced by its predecessors, that the decades-old nuclear structure must be preserved for the foreseeable future.What that leaves is a risk of reverting to past practices, perhaps with additional failures.

Eric Schlosser, author of "Command and Control," a highly regarded 2013 book on the ICBM and nuclear risk, said there is little doubt that the Pentagon needs to update the nuclear missile force's basic infrastructure."But that's a short-term solution," he said in an interview.

"The bigger question is: How many land-based missiles do we need in the 21st century? How should they be deployed, and do we need them at all?"Schlosser and others have expressed concern about morale problems in the force - an issue the Air Force had been slow to acknowledge even after the AP wrote last year about an unpublished RAND Corp. study that found evidence of "burnout" and hopelessness among missile crews and other members of the ICBM workforce.

Paul Bracken, a Yale University professor and author of "The Second Nuclear Age," says he finds it unsettling to read about neglect of the ICBM force and the turmoil in the ranks of those who operate the missiles.

"If things are so bad, if for some reason we did want to fire an individual nuclear weapon, could we? Would the weapon take off?" he asked in an interview this month with the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists.

"With all of the problems in our nuclear force, it seems to me that there'd be some real doubts. You really wouldn't want to use one of these weapons, because you don't know what is going to happen."Bracken added that in the event of a massive nuclear attack by Russia,

"I'm sure we could retaliate - we've got enough weaponry at our disposal. If we fire enough of them in a mass counterstrike, some are bound to work."

Evidence of what some would call the Air Force's willful disregard for its nuclear force is not hard to find. Michelle Spencer, for one, documented it in a little-noticed research paper she wrote for the Air Force in 2012. Her study team found examples of Air Force decisions to deemphasize nuclear training and education."
Behind the scenes of a nuclear missile command centre (Archive)

At times the signs were clear that expertise and culture had declined to the point that the (nuclear) enterprise was in danger of catastrophic failure," she wrote.Spencer put particular emphasis on nuclear expertise - how to expand it, how to maintain it and how to reward it."Without answers to these fundamental questions, the Air Force nuclear enterprise remains on the same trajectory as it has been for the last two decades - in ever-increasing decline," she wrote, adding that at some point it may be unable to sustain a nuclear mission that is supposed to be central to U.S. defense strategy.
 

JF&P

Deceased
What if the Illuminati were real and our military and Nuke capability has been degraded on purpose.....?
 

Archetype

Veteran Member
What if the Illuminati were real and our military and Nuke capability has been degraded on purpose.....?

More like "What if the USAF has been so obsessed with finding money for first the F-22, and then the F-35 for the past two decades, that it left the ICBM force to rust?"

Doing away with SAC in '92 and having ACC headquartered at TAC's old HQ rather than Omaha helped gaurantee that the missile force was going to be a dead-end for careers, wouldn't attract the best people, and would be the last to get $ to keep ancient systems up and running.
 

OldArcher

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Good Afternoon, Doug,

Looks like the traitors in power- all three branches of government, have succeeded in their efforts to emasculate and destroy us... The way things are going, we will soon be less relevant than France...

I used to be worried about such scenarios, and "what-if's." No longer. It is, what it is... American Patriots will have to stand-to, and forge a new nation out of what may remain... Regardless, as it has always been, EVERYTHING IS IN GOD'S HANDS.

I long ago lost my faith in government, then in man... My only faith, now and forever more, is in God...

God Bless You and Yours, Doug.

Maranatha

OldArcher
 

CnMO

Veteran Member
little OT, but I read an article in the Moscow Times this week, and didn't know this:

Russia rented for 1 year a nuk submarine to India.

humm
 

Sacajawea

Has No Life - Lives on TB
"... hopefully some will work" doesn't exactly inspire confidence, nor is it how I expect the military - any of it - to work.
 

TerryK

TB Fanatic
I wonder if morale is similar in our Boomers, or is this an Air Force issue?

Obviously an AF issue. They get all pissy if the golf course and the club aren't available 24/7. :lol:
And of course they must have stimulating entertainment for those really tough hours down in the silo.
The silo crews have been co-ed for a long time so they definitely have something to do during those long hours down there.
I wonder if these are the same missile crews who were caught cheating on their qualification exams and inspections?

Oh, and now that the US Navy boomers are getting female crew members, morale on subs should be picking up. Or going down, depending on how many problems come up. There are already arguments about getting time in the head.
 

GeorgiaBoy

Contributing Member
Good article. It's amazing when we have to rely on UK newspapers for the news in our own country. I've about quit watching TV and never watch the evening news.
 

Housecarl

On TB every waking moment
I wonder if morale is similar in our Boomers, or is this an Air Force issue?

A big difference is that the submarine force isn't a cul-de-sac career path and the operational dynamics of a deterrence patrol for a submarine is a lot different than sitting alert at an ICBM field.
 

Hfcomms

EN66iq
I don't forsee that our missiles won't work right. The maintenance is pretty meticulous overall although there have been problems. Greater problem with command and control when it comes to getting an authentic order to launch and then are the officers in the hole going to verify everything right and can they do what they need to do for a successful launch? Unfortunately I think the ongoing tensions with Russia will provide ammunition for the missile wings to take their jobs a little more seriously.
 

coalcracker

Veteran Member
When I read the headline, I thought, "Wow, incapable....gotta read this!" What I found in the article was that some in the Air Force are complaining that morale is bad. Also found that some politician who was going to do something about it resigned.

I'm thinking journalists are perhaps incapable of writing news articles? If I'm the editor, I give this story back to the reporter and say, "You may have something here, but this needs work." Note that the very first sentence is unsubstantiated. Is this now what AP calls news reporting?

My feeling is that the XBOX generation has been coddled and cuddled to such an extent that the personal discipline needed to maintain effective readiness may well be compromised. Problem is that this article just meanders along quoting books and making inferences without ever giving us facts.
 

USDA

Veteran Member
Oh…all the moaning and groaning from some politicians and lessor military types about the degradation of our land based ICBM’s…why spend money on them at all? Nuclear weapon technology is so far behind (although still dangerous, as are the Nuke reactors, as Fukushima shows) the advanced stuff…that it is hardly worth using. &, if the story of the Arliegh Burke destroyer [Donald Cook] in the Black Sea, a few months ago is true…the Russians flew over it with an unarmed plane but with one hell of a ‘Jammer” and shut down, radar and everything on the boat and made 12 ‘pretend’ bombing runs over it…before leaving the area…and the juice came back on boat. With Jammers like that, ICBM’s might not make it out of their silo’s even if all the mechanics work. Brave New World…I guess so.

from a note I wrote my son on.."the rush by world powers, in the hunt for alien technology." The real reason we are back in Iraq, & frothing at the mouth to get into Syria and Iran.
 

Doomer Doug

TB Fanatic
Well, back in 1991 we had a triad of nuclear launch ability. We had missile launch ability from the land. We had missile launch ability from subs hidden deep in the ocean in a 4,000 mile zone. Finally, we had the ability to drop bombs from the air. As of right now, the only CREDIBLE NUCLEAR LAUNCH ABILITY WE HAVE IS FROM THE TRIDENT SUBS.

We have NO ability to get airplanes into either Chinese or Russian airspace to hit urban targets deep in the country. Advances in Russian and Chinese anti aircraft technology means we can't bomb them from the air using airplanes. We have a three legged stool with one of the legs cut off.

Our ability to launch from the missile silos scattered around the country is questionable at best. Sorry to tell the "it is only bad morale group, there have been MULTIPLE AND ONGOING STORIES ABOUT THE COMBAT DEGRADATION OF OUR MINUTEMAN ICBM SILOS AND CREWS. These are TECHNICAL ISSUES AND MORALE ISSUES. In fact, Doomer Doug has also seen multiple stories about the FIRING of command and control people, technical people, and the Doomer Doug all time favorite relating to the nuke missiles being flown, live nuke missiles, around the USA like a Fed Ex plane. Nope, there are SERIOUS FAILURE AT ALL LEVELS OF OUR AIR FORCE NUKE FORCES, COMMAND AND CONTROL, TECHNICAL AND MAINTENANCE, AS WELL AS PEOPLE ISSUES.

Now while Doomer Doug certainly takes a doomer view, much like Old Archer<G>, timebomb's Other doomer!, I guess I am thinking when the fecal material hits the fan and the "red button" is really pushed things won't go as planned.

Putin and Russia have spent TENS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO UPGRADE THEIR TECHNICAL ABILITY, TACTICS, STRATEGY, MOBILITY AND COMBAT LAUNCH ABILITY. Here in the USA, compared to what Putin has done to launch a MASSIVE FIRST STRIKE ON THE USA, we have a nuclear launch infrastructure that may not launch the missiles if attacked.

Gang, Doomer Doug looks at the operational ability of Russian nuclear forces and then compares them the DISMAL AND DYSFUNCTIONAL STATE OF OUR NUKE FORCES, COURTESY OF THE MARXIST TRAITOR OBAMA OF COURSE, and I conclude Putin has the military ability to take out the USA with near, not complete, but damn near close enough, impunity.

It is like John Lennon and Yoko Ono once said, "What if they give a war and nobody shows up?"
 

coalcracker

Veteran Member
I'm cool with doom, and I've always enjoyed reading your thoughts, Doomer Doug. I also believe that the USA will lose in the next conflict with a worthy opponent. What the USA still has in its favor is the funny-money has allowed the development of technologies that have kept us two steps ahead of our adversaries. Our cruise missile technology and platforms for launching, for example, are versatile enough to give our enemies second thoughts. At some point, however, the Russians or Chinese may decide to go "queen for queen." What I see as more likely is this, though:
They will use a proxy to nuke one US city (probably New York City). They will deny involvement. It'll be a very odd attack. A missile fired off an Algerian freighter ten miles off shore, or something strange like that. Immediately after the missile is launched, the freighter will self-explode and be blown to bits. A Russian freighter, which coincidentally happened to be nearby, will speed off to escape the radiation danger after they witness the flash, blast, and mushroom cloud. All the other ships in the area will do the exact same thing. Who could blame them? The Spetsnaz guys will enjoy some vodka on their ride home. Putin will send his condolences to the American people and then sit back and enjoy the ensuing chaos. That is what you call a really bad day on Wall Street.
 

Knight_Loring

Veteran Member
I wonder if morale is similar in our Boomers, or is this an Air Force issue?

I happen to know of a kid who recently graduated from major college in GA. Lets just say he isn't too bright at all. Not sure how he made it to get a degree.
The Air force either saw something in him or has low standards... but he is in charge or over a few silos in the north.
That alone concerns me.
Heard from his M-I-L a few months back, much updating and refurbishing needed.
 

Doomer Doug

TB Fanatic
There are some phrases Doomer Doug never likes to hear. A few years ago we had floods in the Midwest that threatened to flood a nuclear plant. Sanderson said that using the words" sandbag and nuclear power plant in the same sentence made him nervous." LOL

When Doomer Doug hears things like "maintenance issues," or "morale problems," combined with NUCLEAR ICBM MISSILE LAUNCH SITES HE GETS NERVOUS! nuff said<G>
 

alchemike

Veteran Member
Who needs nukes???

When someone gets good enough with a keyboard, they'll take control of any weapons systems they want...and wherever they are...

o)<

mike
 
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