vector7
Dot Collector
You did so good in East Palestine. Do you still have those boots and hard hat?
View: https://twitter.com/mazemoore/status/1629505777583943681?s=20
View: https://twitter.com/mazemoore/status/1629505777583943681?s=20
A big problem mis that the first two temperature reports were not "Critical" and there was no alarm broadcast by the detectors. Instead the reports of a car in the train went to an automated trouble report that would be seen by the yardmaster and car inspectors when the train reached Conway yard, 20-some miles from the derailment. The system would have flagged that car as requiring close inspection and the signs of an overheated wheel/axle would have been obvious.<SNIP>Therefore there are only two possibilities: The system did not alert anyone or the crew ignored it.
If the system didn't alert anyone then everyone involved in that design needs to be tried and thrown in prison for the rest of their miserable lives as such a trend is critical information and deliberately not disclosing it to the crew on board the train is beyond unconscionable. For this Norfolk-Southern must pay.
If, on the other hand the crew knew and ignored it because safety limits were not yet breached despite the trend change then whoever made that call is incompetent to operate a broom, say much less a locomotive.
The bottom line is that there is no valid reason the crew did not have twenty miles of fair warning in which to stop and avert the derailment and did not do so. We are now down to why did they not stop -- was the system programmed to deliberately withhold that information or did it provide it and the crew ignored it?
The entire point of a system like this is to detect incipient problems with plenty of time to take corrective action.<End SNIP>
I'll say it one more time.Fair use cited.
Karl Denninger column:
Exhibit 'A' On Stupidity
The NTSB "early look" report is out and it makes very clear that the Ohio derailment was:
In other words but for putting people in places of authority where they had absolutely no business being, to the point that their best and highest job offer ought to be pushing a broom on a floor, whether due to believing that 2 + 2 = 22 or some other sort of insanity it would have not happened.
- Directly caused by stupidity
and- Entirely avoidable had anyone been able and willing to perform basic math been on board the train or at Norfolk-Southern, or the system in question was deliberately designed to withhold critical safety information.
The hotbox detectors were working.
Here is the short-form of the explanation, then we'll get into the details:
Ok, let's dissect this paragraph.
Dynamic braking is the use of the electric motor in a diesel-electric locomotive as a brake. Instead of being coupled to the generator driven by the diesel engine to move the train forward it is instead connected to a big honking resistor (that's what that "bulging sideways thing" is on the engines; it is the housings and fans for those as, you might imagine, they produce a lot of heat when in use), the motor generates electricity from the train's movement which is intentionally dumped into the resistor. The result is to slow the train instead of accelerating it, much like a Tesla does if you have it set to use regenerative braking.
This implies that the train was descending a mild grade and the dynamic was sufficient to control the train's speed. That would be normal for a mild descent where there's no reason to use the service brakes; the dynamic incurs no wear on the braking components. And, in fact, we know the train was in control speed-wise; it was operating within the speed limits for that section of track.
While the train was being slowed via the dynamic and almost-immediately after the hotbox detector (the last one) went off the emergency brakes -- air driven -- actuated. This was almost certainly (not yet proved, but I'll bet we will eventually find that it was) caused by a violation of the integrity of the airline that powers the service brake system and runs the length of the train, quite-possibly because the fire in the axle truck burned through it. When that happens the air pressure rapidly collapses in the line and the emergency brake system actuates. The engineer in the cab can also command that and the data recorder should show this if in fact it was. We will learn this in time.
Multiple cars derailed; the probable cause was:
The wheelset in question from publicly-released surveillance video was on fire. That would be consistent with the airline burning through. The axle bearing loses its location capability, it shifts, one or both wheels on that axle jump and/or destroy the integrity of the rail it is traveling on and once the first truck goes off it drags the others off due to the ridiculous amount of momentum in the whole.
This is the very-likely set of events, and what we already knew was likely to have been the direct cause of the derailment (as I commented on previously.)
But what we now know is that the progressive failure process was detected with plenty of time and reason to stop.
Specifically:
At the first sensor the temperature was 38F above ambient.
10.89 miles later it was at 103F above ambient, just below the "stop and inspect" threshold for a differential reading.
19.2 miles later it was well over the critical temperature at 253F.
Shortly after that the train derailed.
Anyone with a brain in their head had to know that if you are at 38F over ambient and ten miles later you're more than 100F over ambient you will exceed the "stop and inspect threshold" well before you reach the next detector in 20 more miles, and if the failure is progressive, and most failures are, you will be well over the critical threshold and on the verge of a catastrophic failure by the time you get there.
You don't need to be a rocket scientist to know this -- you simply need to be competent to operate dangerous machinery with known margins which you must not exceed for said machinery to remain safe and know that there is a progressive failure showing up in the data.
That's exactly what happened and nothing more than basic arithmetic -- sixth grade material here folks -- was required for anyone and everyone who saw that data to know that continuing to operate that train was dangerous and quite likely to lead to a disastrous failure.
Therefore there are only two possibilities: The system did not alert anyone or the crew ignored it.
If the system didn't alert anyone then everyone involved in that design needs to be tried and thrown in prison for the rest of their miserable lives as such a trend is critical information and deliberately not disclosing it to the crew on board the train is beyond unconscionable. For this Norfolk-Southern must pay.
If, on the other hand the crew knew and ignored it because safety limits were not yet breached despite the trend change then whoever made that call is incompetent to operate a broom, say much less a locomotive.
The bottom line is that there is no valid reason the crew did not have twenty miles of fair warning in which to stop and avert the derailment and did not do so. We are now down to why did they not stop -- was the system programmed to deliberately withhold that information or did it provide it and the crew ignored it?
The entire point of a system like this is to detect incipient problems with plenty of time to take corrective action. The equipment was functional but no equipment can do anything about HUMAN STUPIDITY whether in what the equipment communicates due to its design or what people do with the information if it is communicated. Damn written policy and "limits" to Hades; if you as an operating engineer with two firing neurons in your head observe a condition that any reasonable person who has an IQ sufficient to be trusted with dangerous machinery is nearly certain to degrade beyond safe limits based on the data you have before you can get to the next confirmatory signaling device YOU STOP NOW AND FIND OUT WHAT IS GOING ON.
If we have people like this designing and operating our nuclear and chemical plants -- and you know damn well that we almost-certainly do -- it is merely a matter of time before one or more of our cities glows in the dark.
PRISON.
NOW.
And get rid of every single person in a safety-critical position who cannot do basic math in their head in 30 seconds in a situation like this, when you have PLENTY of warning, or who will not immediately, when such a situation exists, SHUT IT DOWN, along with anyone who puts together a system that deliberately withholds trend information that strongly suggests a failure will occur based on what it observes.
NO EXCEPTIONS.
The NTSB Preliminary Report already states that the first two detectors did not broadcast a warning because the detectors did not sense bearing temperatures above the critical alarm threshold. Instead the detectors sent messages to the dispatch center alerting maintenance managers that the train had a car that required attention.I'll say it one more time.
The ENTIRE emphasis of Norfolk Southern under "Precision Scheduled Railroading" is GET THAT DAMN TRAIN TO THE NEXT STOP ON TIME, DAMMIT!!!"
And they have POUNDED that into the heads of their current employees---that NOTHING. ELSE. MATTERS.
Not being exhausted at the end of a 12-hour shift.
Not having been on the job, continuously, with no breaks (as in vacations, rest days, PTO, NOTHING) FOR THE LAST YEAR.
NOT EVEN ALLOWED TO BE OFF IF YOU'RE SICK (You're supposed to "give notice" --first--if you're planning to be off sick. No Kidding--that is for real).
My son was saying, yes, the crew should have noticed this--so "IF" the defect detectors DID SENT THE AUDIBLE SIGNAL which alerts the crews---and "IF" they heard it (if their radio was on and functional, not just the one in the cab but the radios they crew also wear on their belts)--then yes you'd think they would have stopped.
Unless they had been TOLD to GO ON.
Which we've read --they WERE.
You see, IT IS NOT JUST THE CREW that gets those warnings from the defect detectors.
DISPATCH sees the warnings on THEIR computers, too--and my son has HEARD dispatch in Atlanta WARNING A CREW OF A DEFECT OR ANOMALY sometimes Even Before They Are Aware of It Themselves because the detector hasn't even gone off yet.
SO WHY DID THE DISPATCH NOT WARN THE CREW TO STOP???? WERE "THEY" ALL "STUPID," TOO?
Or--in actuality--was dispatch telling them, "You'd better NOT stop! Not if you want to keep your job! That train HAS to be in Conway by morning!"
I still say we MUST MUST MUST have the AUDIBLE COMMUNICATIONS between Dispatch and the crew to KNOW what happened.
Without that---it is as I said--
NS will SIMPLY BLAME IT ON THE CREW.
Maybe it 'was' their fault.
But there is NO WAY IN HELL that Dispatch also didn't know.
WHY didn't they speak up???
DIOXINS released after Ohio train derailment PERSIST in the environment and collect in lipids, meaning they will contaminate milk, cheese, eggs and meat from farms and ranches
02/17/2023 / By Ethan Huff
The massive chemical dioxin plume created by the “controlled explosion” at the site of the East Palestine, Ohio, train derailment will contaminate the food supply in ways that most people could never imagine.
Dioxins, a chemical byproduct of the burning of vinyl chloride and other chemicals, are hormonally toxic and extremely persistent. They bear a double benzene ring structure that makes them extremely durable, while their planar or flat molecule shape is a key factor in their toxicity.
We are already seeing lots of dead fish and other animals in the path of the plume, but what about all the farms nearby and in neighboring states? What will become of their food animals and crops upon exposure to all those dioxins floating around in the air?
According to Planet Waves FM‘s Eric F. Coppolino, dioxins are also bioactive. They latch onto lipids and embed themselves, passing through the food chain and toxifying the bodies of the people who consume the contamination.
Strangely, everything the media lied to us concerning the “covid virus” is actually true for chemically bioactive dioxins, which bear contagion factors such as their ability to pass through from mother to child through breast milk, or to pass through contaminated food.
“Dioxins are connected to every other toxins issue that ever lived, from DDT to PCBs to Roundup,” Coppolino explains, adding that dioxins are “orders of magnitude above in their effects.”
“Many PCBs are close enough to dioxins to qualify as such; and PCBs degrade into dibenzofurans (also called furans), which are dioxins with one molecule of oxygen instead of two. Dioxins are never made intentionally; similar toxins are, but dioxin per se is a byproduct of other chemical processes or a degradation byproduct.”
Dioxins occur as a byproduct of chlorine, which is used in many consumer products including paper and feminine hygiene products
Most dioxins occur as byproducts of the plastics industry. Vinyl chloride, the most mentioned chemical released at the explosion site in East Palestine, is used to create polyvinyl chloride or PVC, a type of plastic used in piping.
Dioxins also occur in paper production due to the use of whitening bleach. Anything bleach-related produces dioxins as a byproduct – and dioxins, whenever released into the environment, cause major harm for many years afterward due to their persistence.
“PVC is burned in every house fire, trailer fire, car fire and in the incineration of municipal and industrial waste,” Coppolino further reports. “And when that happens, dioxins are created.”
“Dioxins are also a contaminant or byproduct of nearly every chemical process involving chlorine. There have been numerous dioxin scandals over the years (such as involving contamination of Lysol ‘disinfectant,’ Phisohex ‘antibacterial’ soap and many, many others.”
One of the most infamous dioxin lawsuits was Kemner v. Monsanto, and it also involved a train wreck, that one in Sturgeon, Mo. That particular lawsuit brought to light the ugly truth about not only dioxins but also Monsanto, which was once declared to be the evilest corporation in the world. (Related: Even indoor pets are dying in and around East Palestine due to the toxic fumes released from the controlled explosion.)
Dioxins accumulate inside the body and cause cancer and other health problems
Neil Donahue, a professor of chemistry at Carnegie Mellon University, says he worries that the controlled burn and explosion have unleashed a dioxin nightmare, the extent of which remains to be seen.
“Vinyl chloride is bad,” he is quoted as saying. “Dioxins are worse as carcinogens and that comes from burning.”
When exposure to dioxins occurs, they persist inside the body as well. They meld within fat tissue and stay there, presenting the risk of cancer and other health problems down the road.
Dr. Lynn Goldman, dean of George Washington University‘s School of Public Health, feels similarly, but is more worried about un-combusted vinyl chloride vapors that could still be lurking in and around the blast site.
“Until there has been a thorough assessment, the soot, as well as any other materials should in my opinion be treated as contaminated by vinyl chloride and/or dioxins or other contaminants until proven otherwise,” she is quoted as saying.
In Coppolino’s view, the full toxicity of dioxins is simply incomprehensible to most people. Peter Montague, author of Rachel’s Hazardous Waste News, summarized it like this:
“How can we express this in terms that people can grasp? Let’s compare it to one single aspirin tablet. One aspirin tablet weighs 5 grains (or 325 milligrams, or 325 trillion femtograms), so to express one ‘safe’ lifetime dose of 2,3,7,8-TCDD, you would take a single aspirin tablet and divide it into 32 million (actually 32,172,218) minuscule pieces. Then one of those tiny pieces would represent one ‘safe’ lifetime dose of 2,3,7,8-TCDD.”
In other words, a single aspirin tablet’s worth of dioxin is the equivalent of a lifetime “safe dose” of dioxin exposure for 32 million people. This is a big reason why manufacturers try to avoid distilling it out of their products because they have no idea what to do with it other than to release it unmitigated into the environment.
“The reference dose for dioxin is 0.000,000,001 milligrams per kilogram of body weight per day (mg/kg/day),” Coppolino further notes, comparing that to the reference dose for cadmium which is just 0.001 mg/kg/day, according to the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA).
DIOXINS released after Ohio train derailment PERSIST in the environment and collect in lipids, meaning they will contaminate milk, cheese, eggs and meat from farms and ranches
This is the musical intro to the Rush Limbaugh radio show! I always wondered about the song.
Wow does that bring back memories of Rush…it STILL makes me sad he’s gone
"Carry Me Ohio" by Mark Kozelek (Sun Kil Moon)Here are the Lyrics to My City Was Gone. My City Was Gone - Wikipedia
Quotes from Wikipedia..
"My City Was Gone" is a song by the rock group The Pretenders. The song originally appeared in October 1982....
is best known as the opening theme of the EIB Network, an American conservative talk radio franchise that started in 1984 with Rush Limbaugh
My City Was Gone Lyrics
[Verse 1]
I went back to Ohio
But my city was gone
There was no train station
There was no downtown
South Howard had disappeared
All my favorite places
My city had been pulled down
Reduced to parking spaces
[Chorus]
Ay, oh, way to go, Ohio
[Verse 2]
Well, I went back to Ohio
But my family was gone
I stood on the back porch
There was nobody home
I was stunned and amazed
My childhood memories
Slowly swirled past
Like the wind through the trees
[Chorus]
Ay, oh, way to go, Ohio
[Guitar Solo]
[Verse 3]
I went back to Ohio
But my pretty countryside
Had been paved down the middle
By a government that had no pride
The farms of Ohio
Had been replaced by shopping malls
And Muzak filled the air
From Seneca to Cuyahoga Falls
[Chorus]
Said, ay, oh, way to go, Ohio
Tons upon tons of friction?Question. I understand the train was observed on fire for maybe 40 minutes before it derailed. This was a failing bearing on a wheelset. What exactly is being suggested as the source of combustion? This is a steel railcar, no hydraulics I'm aware of, but might be. Bearings are sealed and grease packed, so once the grease is gone there's none to burn. If hydraulic oil ruptured and caught, once hydraulic pressure is gone there's no more to burn. If the tank itself wasn't penetrated, what was there to burn? Did I miss something?
Sparks sure, but flames? Looked like flames to me.Tons upon tons of friction?
Steel-on-steel in that kind of situation gets rather energetic.
Sparks sure, but flames? Looked like flames to me.
There were giant flames. There was a lot of cars with petroleum lube, and malt liquor. I'm sure they are very flammable. It had to be something like that, the fire was huge. I watched it for hours 3 miles away at my house.Sparks sure, but flames? Looked like flames to me.
I'm talking about the train moving on the tracks with big flames underneath. I'm not talking about what burned at the derailment site. What was burning while the train was moving?There were giant flames. There was a lot of cars with petroleum lube, and malt liquor. I'm sure they are very flammable. It had to be something like that, the fire was huge. I watched it for hours 3 miles away at my house.
There's a good it was sparks and burning seals off the failing bearing that were exaggerated by being seen on cameras operating in night vision mode.I'm talking about the train moving on the tracks with big flames underneath. I'm not talking about what burned at the derailment site. What was burning while the train was moving?
Saw the early videos--where you can see a clearly-defined white (not red--WHITE hot) circle -- the wheel was already white-hot (apparently stuck-fast and barely turning?)There's a good it was sparks and burning seals off the failing bearing that were exaggerated by being seen on cameras operating in night vision mode.
Hmm, that makes sense.There's a good it was sparks and burning seals off the failing bearing that were exaggerated by being seen on cameras operating in night vision mode.
Oh, ha ha! Can't answer that oneI'm talking about the train moving on the tracks with big flames underneath. I'm not talking about what burned at the derailment site. What was burning while the train was moving?
That's a fair statement. After the hoax has been exposed, the True Believers will be remembered.PETE BUTTIGIEG: "Dealing with climate change is one of the biggest things that people like me...will be remembered for after we're gone"
They have no money, and they won't get much help. Those who could afford to leave are already gone. A lawsuit would go nowhere.I wish the people would self evacuate. Then Sue the railroad for Billions of dollars. The EPA should be shut down and those working the area held for criminal trial.
Right. You beat me to itThey have no money, and they won't get much help. Those who could afford to leave are already gone. A lawsuit would go nowhere.
Ohhh that’s just GREAT!!Indiana landfill to house waste shipments from toxic Ohio train derailment
EAST PALESTINE, Ohio (AP) — Contaminated waste from the site of a fiery train derailment in Ohio began moving out again Monday, after concerns were raised during the weekend about oversight of wher…fox59.com
NS and / or the EPA should be MADE to buy up every house and every acre of contaminated land, at the FULL VALUE prior-derailmentRight. You beat me to it
It’s just not that easy to up and move like that.
WAY easier said than done
And will anyone even BUY their house now??