CHAT Thoughts about coin shortage

West

Senior
So, if the economy goes in the tank, then people start selling stuff to pay for food and necessities. Think garage sales or roadside farm stands- you need change and small bills. Yes, some people have a phone app to take debit cards, but then people can track the transaction, and charge tax. If you want to prevent a local or underground exchange, for anything from zucchini to used snowsuits, take away the small bills and change. Think about having your garage sale, or the old car or boat you sold to someone taxed as income that year... and the buyer has to pay sales tax!
Me, I'm going to hang on to some change.

It's law that if one has more than a few hundred dollars in income in a year that they are required by law, fine, and even jail time if one doesn't pay at least 15% of that income to the United States Treasury.

Many people think I'm wrong etc. ect. But it is what it is. All Income has a 15% mandated liability on it off the top. Then one has to spend their time or pay to do the paperwork to be compliant. So in fact everyone is now a unpaid and or pay to collect taxes for free, revenuer.

Our founding fathers are rolling in their graves.
 

Samuel Adams

Has No Life - Lives on TB
It's law that if one has more than a few hundred dollars in income in a year that they are required by law, fine, and even jail time if one doesn't pay at least 15% of that income to the United States Treasury.

Many people think I'm wrong etc. ect. But it is what it is. All Income has a 15% mandated liability on it off the top. Then one has to spend their time or pay to do the paperwork to be compliant. So in fact everyone is now a unpaid and or pay to collect taxes for free, revenuer.

Our founding fathers are rolling in their graves.

The entire income tax code is based on contract, not law.

Otherwise it really would be unconstitutional, not to mention a bald-faced trampling of a man’s right to keep the fruits of his labors.

The 16th amendment, like the 14th, is an invitation, not a mandate.

The lion’s share of the liability rests with the full acceptance and exercise of DC-based US citizenship (as opposed to free American national, native born within the geographical boundaries of any of the several states—no birth certificate registered with the US DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE), possession and use of a social security number, sworn signature, under penalties of perjury, every time you file a 1040.

Yeah, the rabbit hole goes that deep.

PM me if you want to know how drastically your life must change from typical modern American, before IRS and state taxing authorities will take your strategic withdrawal seriously.
 

West

Senior
The entire income tax code is based on contract, not law.

Otherwise it really would be unconstitutional, not to mention a bald-faced trampling of a man’s right to keep the fruits of his labors.

The 16th amendment, like the 14th, is an invitation, not a mandate.

The lion’s share of the liability rests with the full acceptance and exercise of DC-based US citizenship (as opposed to free American national, native born within the geographical boundaries of any of the several states—no birth certificate registered with the US DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE), possession and use of a social security number, sworn signature, under penalties of perjury, every time you file a 1040.

Yeah, the rabbit hole goes that deep.

PM me if you want to know how drastically your life must change from typical modern American, before IRS and state taxing authorities will take your strategic withdrawal seriously.

Right, but that contract, if one breaks it and doesn't pay their income taxes, the law can and often does come down hard on your arse.

But I see your logic and I'm too deep in the contract, my whole livelihood requires me to be in the contract in order to make a living.

If I had more standing/establish in the area I'm currently doing business in and what not, I might be able to pull it off. As it is now, no way.

I reluctantly pay taxes on all income and pay state taxes on all materials and properties. And will continue to do so, out of the need to pay my bills.

This is the first year since 1989 that I haven't paid income taxes in a round about way with the Trump check we got. My CPA even said that was not even considered income.

This last year me and the wife had made just over $19,000 in income, after deductions and what not we only had to pay $1500 in fica taxes, plus the $200 mandated CPA cost. But we got, $2400 in Trump bucks.

So that was at least mighty nice, for once.

Gone are the days I paid on average $5000 a month in all payroll liabilities for 5 men for 17 years. That was a huge RIP off for me and my men. The system is indeed FUBAR
 

Samuel Adams

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Appreciate how the establishment funnels the people into just the level of bondage you describe, West.

From birth....to public education....to debt.....to license.....to full participation.....to abject bondage.

Founders rolling in their graves, indeed.
 

NoDandy

Has No Life - Lives on TB
On one hand and as a coin collector (I'm biased) the system wants you to cash your change in. This is not a real crises it's the plan. Because real coin, even clad is a liability for the bankers/government etc.

For when we do go cashless, clad coins will hold value better than what ever digit system they currently have or will have.

On the other hand, I will get stuck with hundreds and hundreds of clad dollars worth of expensive washers and or bags full of change that I can use to put around my bunker and use as a shield from incoming fire. Or as counter weights for rope traps...the possibilities are endless.
West I have wondered about keeping clad coins, or cashing in. I have also wondered about instead of keeping the clad coins, going to a pawn shop / coin dealer and using the money to purchase junk silver . As we know, silver will always be worth something, collectables, silver content, etc. I do think in a real collapse/SHTF, there will still be a need for means to conduct commerce. Not easy to carry around many items used for barter, etc.

What do you think ?

Regards
 

Catnip

Veteran Member
paper money is the next to go

with no coin, there is no need for a mint
with no paper money, there is no need for a treasury.

The Federal Reserve will own it all
Trump now owns The Federal Reserve. He has flipped it into the Treasury Dept. and I do believe he is bankrupting The Fed in order to use up all fiat money (hence, the stimulus money). He will then institute the new paper money, backed by gold. I'm not clear on all the particulars but I believe that's the jist of it. I hope I'm not wrong.
 

TKO

Veteran Member
While out grocery shopping yesterday I ran into this issue. I prefer to pay cash whenever possible, luckily I keep a hefty change purse in my handbag. Adds extra weight in case I have to do some whacking.

I don't understand, if there is a coin shortage due to less circulation and production, why aren't FRNs also affected? Someone smarter than me please explain.
I went to the credit union yesterday and got some cash. I asked the teller about this coin shortage/money shortage. She asked me what I needed. Nothing. She said she could give me rolls of whatever I wanted. So, didn't seem to be a coin shortage there. I saw a guy come in and empty a big jar into one of those coin machines, while I waited. I do see signs up at stores mentioning "exact change" and the "coin shortage".
 

rob0126

Veteran Member
Trump now owns The Federal Reserve. He has flipped it into the Treasury Dept. and I do believe he is bankrupting The Fed in order to use up all fiat money (hence, the stimulus money). He will then institute the new paper money, backed by gold. I'm not clear on all the particulars but I believe that's the jist of it. I hope I'm not wrong.

I wonder if trumps recent phone call to the queen of england had anything to do with that? (She is part owner of the Fed iirc)

 

SouthernBreeze

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Local bank offering $5 on top of every $50 of coins turned in. No problem getting coins at our bank. Wally world and Corp businesses like catos all card only.

Mom went to withdraw money from her bank the other day. There was a sign at the desk stating the same. She ask the teller if they were short of coins. The teller said YES. Mom told her she had rolls of quarters at home, and would the bank like to have them. Another big YES. Mom went home and gathered up all her rolled quarters, and brought them back. Not only did they give her face value for the quarters, but paid her extra for them. Mom walked away a very happy person.

Mom and Dad, both, have been saving quarters, nickels, and dimes, since I was a kid. Mom has never told me how many they have collected over the years.
 

The Traveler

Veteran Member
I am late to the party but I dont think there is a conspiracy regarding coins. As some of the articles have alluded to, the pandemic slowed money flow, including coins. People are not allowed in many placed to go into their banks to change coin to paper and many wont use Coinstar as Dennis aluded to regarding their 11% charge. The US Treasury has enacted protocols just like the rest of the US regarding social distancing and other measures to protect employees, so less employees to run the stamp machines. I believe this is a short term issue and will right itself as we open back up. YMMV
 

20Gauge

TB Fanatic
During the Civil War, there was a shortage of Gold & Silver. Today there is no shortage of junk metal for todays coins.
The gold and silver were coins the coins of the day...... so there was a coin shortage which included pennies. They used stamps as currency at one point.
 

20Gauge

TB Fanatic
During the civil war times they were still making money from gold and silver. They are not doing that now. So if there is a shortage of non precious metal coins, I believe the government caused it.
They were also using copper. There was also a penny shortage.... so us postal stamps were used as currency at one point.
 

To-late

Membership Revoked
They were also using copper. There was also a penny shortage.... so us postal stamps were used as currency at one point.
Yes that is true.
My point however, is that the current currency, is just bits of pressed metal representing value. So making as much as is needed shouldn't be a huge burden on the government.
 

20Gauge

TB Fanatic
Yes that is true.
My point however, is that the current currency, is just bits of pressed metal representing value. So making as much as is needed shouldn't be a huge burden on the government.
It is specialized metal. Done in specific manner. So it can be just as hard to get. The paper we used is actually a special linen. I do understand your point, but we have been here before and will be here again. It was piss poor planning (PPP) on the part of the government when they shut down. Normally they only are able to produce just enough to make it year to year.
 

West

Senior
West I have wondered about keeping clad coins, or cashing in. I have also wondered about instead of keeping the clad coins, going to a pawn shop / coin dealer and using the money to purchase junk silver . As we know, silver will always be worth something, collectables, silver content, etc. I do think in a real collapse/SHTF, there will still be a need for means to conduct commerce. Not easy to carry around many items used for barter, etc.

What do you think ?

Regards

Well, if you don't already have a nice stack of constitutional real 90%+ silver monies that your comfortable with, then by all means.

Some senior nuts will say it's best to have you and yours bodyweight in silver.

Me, I've only got a few silver dimes, quarters, halves, new and old silver dollars, in my sock drawer.
 

West

Senior
They were also using copper. There was also a penny shortage.... so us postal stamps were used as currency at one point.

Regarding postage stamps. As a big dummy who has been collecting new stamps since 1976... I've never made a dime on my collection, until they came out with "forever" stamps. Now I'm making some change, every year now, they seem to of at least kept up with inflation.

Ha! Not so dumb now...

:D
 

20Gauge

TB Fanatic
Regarding postage stamps. As a big dummy who has been collecting new stamps since 1976... I've never made a dime on my collection, until they came out with "forever" stamps. Now I'm making some change, every year now, they seem to of at least kept up with inflation.

Ha! Not so dumb now...

:D
Agreed. We buy in bulk each time. At least a year's worth if not two.
 

danielboon

TB Fanatic
I am late to the party but I dont think there is a conspiracy regarding coins. As some of the articles have alluded to, the pandemic slowed money flow, including coins. People are not allowed in many placed to go into their banks to change coin to paper and many wont use Coinstar as Dennis aluded to regarding their 11% charge. The US Treasury has enacted protocols just like the rest of the US regarding social distancing and other measures to protect employees, so less employees to run the stamp machines. I believe this is a short term issue and will right itself as we open back up. YMMV
Do you really think we will fully open back up. We are in the EndGame. It will not get better.
 

Hognutz

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Trump now owns The Federal Reserve. He has flipped it into the Treasury Dept. and I do believe he is bankrupting The Fed in order to use up all fiat money (hence, the stimulus money). He will then institute the new paper money, backed by gold. I'm not clear on all the particulars but I believe that's the jist of it. I hope I'm not wrong.
Hell, Trump can’t even arrest Hillary....
 

Dozdoats

On TB every waking moment
Yes, the Confederacy minted coins, after they seized several former US mints. But inflation was so rampant in the South that coins were not much of an issue. Coins of the Civil War

The South was so non-industrialized they had to go to Northern printers to provide paper money. The Yankee printers insisted on being paid in gold....
 
Only if you want cash. If it offers an Amazon credit, it is the complete amount. I've had to go to
several locations in the past to find a machine offering Amazon.
I’ve used one that gives Home Depot cards.
Counted quarters and used them for food at the self check, so I didn’t waste a checker’s time. Took $40 in pennies to dimes to counting machine.
 

tanstaafl

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Trump now owns The Federal Reserve. He has flipped it into the Treasury Dept. and I do believe he is bankrupting The Fed in order to use up all fiat money (hence, the stimulus money). He will then institute the new paper money, backed by gold. I'm not clear on all the particulars but I believe that's the jist of it. I hope I'm not wrong.

Now that there is funny! Thanks for the laugh! :lol:
 
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