OT/MISC The Most And Least Reliable Cars In America

[Hfcomms]

SATURDAY, NOV 19, 2022 - 11:00 PM

Toyota, Lexus and BMW are the most reliable manufacturers of new cars according to the annual survey of U.S. nonprofit Consumer Reports. Compiled by assessing issues with over 300,000 vehicles in 17 trouble spots over the past 12 months according to participant feedback, the index saw major movement compared to 2020.

As Statista's Florian Zandt shows in the chart below, two legacy brands, in particular, have moved up and down the ladder significantly...


You will find more infographics at Statista

While Toyota and Lexus traded places year-over-year, German manufacturer BMW climbed 10 spots and won the bronze medal in terms of reliability. Dropping 10 ranks, on the other hand, is Chevrolet, which only scored 40 out of 100 possible index points across all its models.

Notably, seven of the 10 highest-rated brands are Japanese.

The most valuable car company in the world, Tesla, which came in second-to-last in 2020, managed to climb four ranks. According to Reuters coverage of the report, the EV manufacturer still faces problems concerning "body hardware, steering/suspension, paint and trim, and climate system on its models."

Jeep and Volkswagen dropped even further compared to 2020.

Coming in last is Mercedes-Benz, earning a reliability score of 26 out of 100.



Consumer Reports' annual study analyzes consumer feedback for car manufacturers with more than two models and includes only the brands with enough data. By aggregating statistically significant weak points of popular car brands in the new car market, the report offers valuable insight into the market in the United States. It is considered vital information for every branch of the domestic automobile industry.

In case you were wondering, Consumer Reports notes that this year we have insufficient data to rank Alfa Romeo, Chrysler, Dodge, Fiat, Infiniti, Jaguar, Land Rover, Maserati, Mini, Mitsubishi, Polestar, Porsche, and Rivian.

The Most And Least Reliable Cars In America | ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

 

[Samuel Adams]

 

[West]

So is Ford the ugly stepchild no one talks about anymore?

 

[Hfcomms]

I'm sure Alfa could chime in on this one. A few years ago as my truck was getting older and becoming a garage queen and knowing that hard economic times were on the horizon again I started to research fuel efficient econoboxes and tried to figure out which ones were the least problematic as far as maintenance costs as I was spending a mint on vehicle repairs.

I found Scotty Kilmer's channel on Youtube and the guy knows his stuff being a mechanic for about fifty years. His two top recommendations were Toyota and Honda and more specifically the Civic or Corolla. Not flashy and won't turn heads but reliable to a fault, sips gas and hardly ever in the garage. I choose a Civic and I have to say since I've gotten it the only thing I've had to do was oil changes and I got a new battery last year as the old one was original.

 

[Samuel Adams]

So is Ford the ugly stepchild no one talks about anymore?

No.


That would be Haflinger.

 

[Hfcomms]

So is Ford the ugly stepchild no one talks about anymore?

Ford probably falls in the middle as they were just covering the most and least reliable.

 

[Anti-Liberal]

I'll stick to mainly Honda Accord and my wifes Toyota Tacoma, very safe bets.

 

[Hfcomms]

I bought a 1994 Tacoma brand new on a lease and sorry that I didn't buy it outright when the lease was up. Could take that little truck almost anywhere. Couldn't afford one today as they are almost as expensive as the full size trucks.

 

[Tex88]

I bought a 1994 Tacoma brand new on a lease and sorry that I didn't buy it outright when the lease was up. Could take that little truck almost anywhere. Couldn't afford one today as they are almost as expensive as the full size trucks.

The Tacoma was introduced in the US in February 1995 (March 1995 market launch):

The Taco isn't really any smaller than the Tundra:

https://www.toyotaofdowntownla.com/toyota-comparisons/2021-toyota-tacoma-vs-tundra/

 

[Dennis Olson]

View attachment 379806

Why did you post a horse and wagon pic?

- wheels used to fall off wagons regularly

- horses got sick or otherwise hurt themselves.

- horses are very expensive to keep. (Do you own horses?)

- try taking a horse and wagon on the freeway. You betcha



Look, if you wanna live in 1868, that’s your right. But it’s not a superior way to live. (And make sure you give up your car and computer. It’s been nice knowing ya….)

 

[Raggedyman]

It’s OK Sam . . . Raggedyann says I was born 150 years too late . . .

 

[Samuel Adams]

I see yer point, Dennis.

Cart parts availability was probably as sketchy and unpredictable then, as now.

This is far more my style, and maintenance level.


(3 min. or so)


Should I pour you another cup of coffee, this cranky a.m. ?

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=b_mMMI0Kc7I

 

[West]

We had horses once. Almost as expensive as owning a ford.

 

[Jeep]

Wife's 2008 Land Rover has 100,000 miles on it and is still going strong. Minor maintenance repairs and the 4WD works great in the snow that we get.

 

[Hfcomms]

The Amish and Mennonites still do the horse and buggy thing and are happy with it. They might have the last laugh in a real economic implosion as they know how to make do with little. At least with a horse you don't have to walk around wondering what you did with your damn keys. LOL!!

 

[Redcat]

Older 96 Chevy Blazer here is beyond reliable. Ugly, yes it is rusted. But every time we turn that key it starts and runs great. Where we live a 4 x 4 is just needed.

The 2004 Subaru Forester is new to us. So I can't tell what repairs are going to be like. But my daughter loves that car. Either way it's been great. All wheel drive and we are putting the free with the car studded snows on it next week. Not so good on gas tho (I'm spoiled).

Our 2010 Mazda is starting the "stuff is gonna break" thing. And she is rusting underneath from salt (frame is not what the Blazer has). We will be getting rid of it in the spring.

2014 Mazda has been amazing. Zero repairs other than maintenance (brakes, oil, filters). I checked my mpg when I filled up last night, 36. It has a 2.5 engine so it's peppy. I still love it.

 

[Samuel Adams]

The Amish and Mennonites still do the horse and buggy thing and are happy with it. They might have the last laugh in a real economic implosion as they know how to make do with little. At least with a horse you don't have to walk around wondering what you did with your damn keys. LOL!!

And with the exhaust of a Ford….I’ve yet to see anyone engage an impromptu “snowball fight” in mid-July.


It’s the little things…..

 

[Redleg]

So is Ford the ugly stepchild no one talks about anymore?

Must be somewhere in the middle of the rankings. I find it hard to believe Ford would be doing that good.
I have a 2012 Ford Fiesta, it has a defective transmission that they let got while in production. Another was low beam headlights would fail because a relay would get corroded in the fuse box because it was designed wrong, they fixed in later models. I had to do my own fix to make it work. But it is still going for now.

 

[artichoke]

This list is about the same as the old Consumers Reports lists from 20 years ago and more. It was later noticed that the brands advertising in CR (especially Toyota/Lexus) always got their recommendations, whether it was a good year for their new cars or not.

They would keep talking about "initial quality", the stuff that is cosmetic or is fixed under warranty, and not about long-term reliability. I used to have a habit of buying their most-hated cars at a discount, after figuring out they had strong bones, and have done well with them. Still driving one 20 years later.

BMW is famous! It has good new-car reliability until just about the time the warranty runs out. Then they're a money pit. They used to have absurdly long oil-change intervals. Not because their engines are any better than others, but because the engine is durable enough to last thru the warranty period even with infrequent oil changes, but then the problems start. You can't even do a lot of the work with normal tools. There are special BMW tools, hundreds, that a mechanic is expected to have. It will be very expensive to repair that aging BMW.

Ford and Chevy are fairly cheap to fix, both parts and labor, at least the older ones are. Cars need maintenance and occasional repairs, and I want cars where that won't cost too much.

The mechanic closest to me hates all the new cars. Insanely complicated electronics, and if one thing breaks you'd better fix it immediately or it will start dragging down other things with it. Piston rings don't fit so tight on the cylinder walls as they used to, because that little bit of friction hurts the gas mileage. You use special thin oil like 0W16 and are expected to burn oil even when the car is pretty new.

 

[West]

Must be somewhere in the middle of the rankings. I find it hard to believe Ford would be doing that good.
I have a 2012 Ford Fiesta, it has a defective transmission that they let got while in production. Another was low beam headlights would fail because a relay would get corroded in the fuse box because it was designed wrong, they fixed in later models. I had to do my own fix to make it work. But it is still going for nFord.

Ha!

I'm that guy.... that guy that just paid $2500 for a water pump! In the 2017 Ford V6 they had a extra timing chain system to directly run the pump. That ment almost pulling the engine out, and a complete timing chain remove, replace and adjust phase or some such thing that I didn't want to do.

Only 30k on engine.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Toyota, hands down. They won’t die. YouTube search Top Gear trying to kill a Toyota. Insane

 

[Redleg]

This list is about the same as the old Consumers Reports lists from 20 years ago and more. It was later noticed that the brands advertising in CR (especially Toyota/Lexus) always got their recommendations, whether it was a good year for their new cars or not.

They would keep talking about "initial quality", the stuff that is cosmetic or is fixed under warranty, and not about long-term reliability. I used to have a habit of buying their most-hated cars at a discount, after figuring out they had strong bones, and have done well with them. Still driving one 20 years later.

BMW is famous! It has good new-car reliability until just about the time the warranty runs out. Then they're a money pit. They used to have absurdly long oil-change intervals. Not because their engines are any better than others, but because the engine is durable enough to last thru the warranty period even with infrequent oil changes, but then the problems start. You can't even do a lot of the work with normal tools. There are special BMW tools, hundreds, that a mechanic is expected to have. It will be very expensive to repair that aging BMW.

Ford and Chevy are fairly cheap to fix, both parts and labor, at least the older ones are. Cars need maintenance and occasional repairs, and I want cars where that won't cost too much.

The mechanic closest to me hates all the new cars. Insanely complicated electronics, and if one thing breaks you'd better fix it immediately or it will start dragging down other things with it. Piston rings don't fit so tight on the cylinder walls as they used to, because that little bit of friction hurts the gas mileage. You use special thin oil like 0W16 and are expected to burn oil even when the car is pretty new.

Yep, not a fan of European cars for that reason. Look really nice and run good short term, dump them and move on.
Japanese cars are a lot better, I was told they were the ones who taught the German auto makers quality, as they tend to be much more reliable over the long term. Not cheap to fix but I prefer long term reliability.
At least American cars are cheaper to fix and parts are available, maybe not so true now.
But I hate all the electronics used in cars now, nothing is manual so costly to fix and hard to find problems, I agree with your mechanic. Need specialized test gear to figure out what is wrong which cost them $$$$.

 

[Red Baron]

What the heck is Mercedes' problem?

 

[marsofold]

We are Toyota people. We have a Camry and a Tacoma pickup. No problems with them.

 

[Tex88]

What the heck is Mercedes' problem?

German engineering, but also German accountants, and Arab stockholders.

 

[amarilla]

Love my Toyotas. Since 1991!

 

[db cooper]

The Amish and Mennonites still do the horse and buggy thing and are happy with it. They might have the last laugh in a real economic implosion as they know how to make do with little. At least with a horse you don't have to walk around wondering what you did with your damn keys. LOL!!

My granddad farmer was late in transitioning to gasoline tractors. His reason was he could raise the fuel for the horses. The farm was not mechanized until my Dad took it over, and he learned why do something manually when a machine is so much more efficient. Thus whenever a new contraption was invented, he bought it. I one was not on the market, he'd invent it.

 

[artichoke]

German engineering, but also German accountants, and Arab stockholders.

Yeah German engineering. Heh. These aren't the guys that designed Panzer tanks, U-boats and the early rockets. These are guys that make the seats out of biodegradable materials that cost much more and aren't necessarily as comfortable, because they've got a green compulsion. American engineering is much better now. Merc is all about "luxury" now. They're no longer expected to last forever.

You can't buy a naturally aspirated Mercedes V-8 anymore, and the cheaper cars are all turbo 4 cylinders. Get an extended powertrain warranty if you get one of those. If you pay more you get their V-6. (If you pay astronomical money there's the twin-turbo or supercharged V-8. If I want that kind of performance I'll want a McLaren, not a Benz.)

It's a 90 degree V-6, they just took the V-8 block and chopped off 2 cylinders. German engineering! That creates a serious vibration mode. A V-6 should have an angle that is some multiple of 360/6 =60 to avoid this, and a V-8 should be a multiple of 360/8 = 45. Most V-8's are 90=2x45 degrees, including the Merc engine, but a V-6 should not have that angle.

Chevy did this too, but you pay a Chevy price for those. I'll give BMW credit, they never did this.

But a 90 degree V-6 requires a balance shaft to counteract that vibration imperfectly, those balance shafts require periodic replacement. German engineering is now crap and whatever is good is living off old designs. Old Merc and Dodge 6 cylinders are inline 6 which works great (0 degrees is a multiple of 60: 0 = 0 x 60). Porsche and Subaru use flat-6, and 180=3x60 so that also doesn't have this problematic vibration. Jaguar had a 30 degree V-12 that was smooth as butter.

 

[Codeno]

Haven't had a new car since '74.

We do old Buicks with the 3.8 V-6 as do many of the Minnesota mail carriers. You just about can't make those cars stop running. One of my daughters has a cool little '93 Century with the 3.3, very good car too, great cold weather starter.

Gotta have 4 wheel drive here in the winter, I've got a '97 Explorer, really good in the snow, and my oldest daughter has a '94 GMC Sierra pickup that she wouldn't sell or trade for love nor money.

Not much traffic here, but nobody mistakes us for being independently wealthy on their way by.

 

[desert_fox]

Wife's 2008 Land Rover has 100,000 miles on it and is still going strong. Minor maintenance repairs and the 4WD works great in the snow that we get.

I have a 2005 that is running very well. Just crossed the 170k mark yesterday.

My 2014 ram 1500 has 240k and is starting to have issues. Cheaper to replace parts currently than to replace the truck.

 

[Grey]

My 2007 Corolla had 246,000 miles on it still running great when I gave it to my son. He drove it probably at least another hundred thousand miles not sure because the odometer stops counting at 300,000.

 

[John Deere Girl]

No.


That would be Haflinger.

Idk, I think Morgan's are just as reliable and flashy too...

 

[AlfaMan]

Older 96 Chevy Blazer here is beyond reliable. Ugly, yes it is rusted. But every time we turn that key it starts and runs great. Where we live a 4 x 4 is just needed.

The 2004 Subaru Forester is new to us. So I can't tell what repairs are going to be like. But my daughter loves that car. Either way it's been great. All wheel drive and we are putting the free with the car studded snows on it next week. Not so good on gas tho (I'm spoiled).

Our 2010 Mazda is starting the "stuff is gonna break" thing. And she is rusting underneath from salt (frame is not what the Blazer has). We will be getting rid of it in the spring.

2014 Mazda has been amazing. Zero repairs other than maintenance (brakes, oil, filters). I checked my mpg when I filled up last night, 36. It has a 2.5 engine so it's peppy. I still love it.

Own a 98 blazer about to roll over 200k miles. Also a bit rusty but dead stock reliable.

Dump the Subaru. It’s not broke yet but it will. Head gaskets-they’re consumable items like brakes and tires on them. They will also rust out those inner rockers and quarter panel extensions VERY quickly, but still look great from a quick glance outside. Cheaply built and minimal rust proofing from the factory. Got a dealer here who buys them from dealers in pa/nj/ny and ct. he has to sell 40% of them for scrap because they’re so rusted they won’t pass a VA state inspection.

Sad to hear the ‘10 Mazda is breaking down. Only real issue I’ve seen with the Mazda 3s of that vintage is oil burning. The CX-7s have tranny issues at high mileages and the cx9 is solid as a rock.

The new Mazdas are shockingly good! They simply don’t break in my experience. Love the engineering of the 3; very nicely done. Japanese built I believe, paint is gorgeous and it’s only 2.5 mils all the way around the car (the paint robots are on point, unlike GM’s drunk/high robots…

 

[AlfaMan]

What the heck is Mercedes' problem?

Sloppy build quality, built in America and less than stellar oem parts suppliers. They have taken a nosedive in recent years.

 

[rob0126]

Ha!

I'm that guy.... that guy that just paid $2500 for a water pump! In the 2017 Ford V6 they had a extra timing chain system to directly run the pump. That ment almost pulling the engine out, and a complete timing chain remove, replace and adjust phase or some such thing that I didn't want to do.

Only 30k on engine.

Im not a ford fan, except the mustang.

Our work trucks are ford rangers.

Multiple repairs on the same part.
Ride like log wagons.
Drink coolant like its def fluid.

Glade I dont have to keep up the maintenance costs.

 

[Redcat]

Own a 98 blazer about to roll over 200k miles. Also a bit rusty but dead stock reliable.

Dump the Subaru. It’s not broke yet but it will. Head gaskets-they’re consumable items like brakes and tires on them. They will also rust out those inner rockers and quarter panel extensions VERY quickly, but still look great from a quick glance outside. Cheaply built and minimal rust proofing from the factory. Got a dealer here who buys them from dealers in pa/nj/ny and ct. he has to sell 40% of them for scrap because they’re so rusted they won’t pass a VA state inspection.

Sad to hear the ‘10 Mazda is breaking down. Only real issue I’ve seen with the Mazda 3s of that vintage is oil burning. The CX-7s have tranny issues at high mileages and the cx9 is solid as a rock.

The new Mazdas are shockingly good! They simply don’t break in my experience. Love the engineering of the 3; very nicely done. Japanese built I believe, paint is gorgeous and it’s only 2.5 mils all the way around the car (the paint robots are on point, unlike GM’s drunk/high robots…

The Subaru was a gift from my daughter so we will keep it a while. I have zero invested. She did have the head gasket replaced but on the dealers dime (bought second hand from them and it was gone immediately and they paid full replacement). So far no rust to see, it was a southern car.

Yes, the Blazer has around 180k miles and it's a beast. Whenever I think she should be gone, she starts right up and heads out.

The 2010 is a quandary. It needs a complete muffler system including a new catalytic. That's expensive enough, but the mechanic said the frame is rotting also. No oil burning at all. Engine wise it is still a great running car. I will get a second opinion before I dump it. I just don't want to put umpteen thousands into her if the frame is gone.

Yes the 2014 and the 2010 are Japanese. I cannot be happier with my 3rd gen 3. From what I have seen online, the mileage on the newer 4th gen 3's is not near as good as mine. Best mileage I have gotten is on a trip to Florida, 40.1 mpg.

 

[Samuel Adams]

except the mustang.

Dennis !!!!



Rob is talking about horses again !!!



Can I kick him in the shins ?

 

[Disciple]

My 2007 Kia Spectra has 291,000 on it. Runs fine when the parts are good. Needing a radiator at the moment. My 2008 Kia Rio has 168,000. Changed transmission 2 years ago, otherwise going on.

 

[Red Baron]

We are Toyota people. We have a Camry and a Tacoma pickup. No problems with them.

My last two vehicles were Toyota Rav4s which were a big step up from the two Mitsubishi Outlanders Frau Baron had before that. My "beater" car is a 2000 Toyota Solara. Runs vry nice for it's age.

I just knew Mitsubishi would eventually fold. Another reason I went to Toyota.

 

[bassaholic]

So is Ford the ugly stepchild no one talks about anymore?

They weren’t even able to test the Ford because it was found on the road dead.