WAR The Mindlessness is Total; Are You Ready for Nuclear War?

Desperado

Membership Revoked
August 19, 2008
The Mindlessness is Total
Are You Ready for Nuclear War?

By PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS

Pervez Musharraf, the puppet installed by the US to rule Pakistan in the interest of US hegemony, resigned August 18 to avoid impeachment. Karl Rove and the Diebold electronic voting machines were unable to control the result of the last election in Pakistan, the result of which gave Pakistanis a bigger voice in their government than America’s.

It was obvious to anyone with any sense -- which excludes the entire Bush Regime and almost all of the “foreign policy community -- that the illegal and gratuitous US invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq, and Israel’s 2006 bombing of Lebanon civilians with US blessing, would result in the overthrow of America’s Pakistani puppet.

The imbecilic Bush Regime ensured Musharraf’s overthrow by pressuring their puppet to conduct military operations against tribesmen in Pakistani border areas, whose loyalties were to fellow Muslims and not to American hegemony. When Musharraf’s military operations didn’t produce the desired result, the idiotic Americans began conducting their own military operations within Pakistan with bombs and missiles. This finished off Musharraf.

When the Bush Regime began its wars in the Middle East, I predicted, correctly, that Musharraf would be one victim. The American puppets in Egypt and Jordan may be the next to go.

Back during the Nixon years, my Ph.D. dissertation chairman, Warren Nutter, was Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security Affairs. One day in his Pentagon office I asked him how the US government got foreign governments to do what the US wanted. “Money,” he replied.

“You mean foreign aid?” I asked.

“No,” he replied, “we just buy the leaders with money.”

It wasn’t a policy he had implemented. He inherited it and, although the policy rankled with him, he could do nothing about it. Nutter believed in persuasion and that if you could not persuade people, you did not have a policy.

Nutter did not mean merely third world potentates were bought. He meant the leaders of England, France, Germany, Italy, all the allies everywhere were bought and paid for.

They were allies because they were paid. Consider Tony Blair. Blair’s own head of British intelligence told him that the Americans were fabricating the evidence to justify their already planned attack on Iraq. This was fine with Blair, and you can see why, with his multi-million dollar payoff once he was out of office.

The American-educated thug, Saakashkvili the War Criminal, who is president of Georgia, was installed by the US taxpayer funded National Endowment for Democracy, a neocon operation whose purpose is to ring Russia with US military bases, so that America can exert hegemony over Russia.

Every agreement that President Reagan made with Mikhail Gorbachev has been broken by Reagan’s successors. Reagan’s was the last American government whose foreign policy was not made by the Israeli-allied neoconservatives. During the Reagan years, the neocons made several runs at it, but each ended in disaster for Reagan, and he eventually drove them from his government.

Even the anti-Soviet Committee on the Present Danger regarded the neocons as dangerous lunatics. I remember the meeting when a member tried to bring
the neocons into the committee, and old line American establishment representatives, such as former Treasury Secretary Douglas Dillon, hit the roof.

The Committee on the Present Danger regarded the neocons as crazy people who would get America into a nuclear war with the Soviet Union. The neocons hated President Reagan, because he ended the cold war with diplomacy, when they desired
a military victory over the Soviet Union.

Deprived of this, the neocons now want victory over Russia.

Today, Reagan is gone. The Republican Establishment is gone. There are no conservative power centers, only neoconservative power centers closely allied with Israel, which uses the billions of dollars funneled into Israeli coffers by US taxpayers to influence US elections and foreign policy.

The Republican candidate for president is a warmonger. There are no checks remaining in the Republican Party on the neocons’ proclivity for war. What Republican constituencies oppose war? Can anyone name one?

The Democrats are not much better, but they have some constituencies that are not enamored of war in order to establish US world hegemony. The Rapture Evangelicals, who fervently desire Armageddon, are not Democrats; nor are the brainwashed Brownshirts desperate to vent their frustrations by striking at someone, somewhere, anywhere.

I get emails from these Brownshirts and attest that their hate-filled ignorance is extraordinary. They are all Republicans, and yet they think they are conservatives. They have no idea who I am, but since I criticize the Bush Regime and America’s belligerent foreign policy, they think I am a “liberal commie pinko.”

The only literate sentence this legion of fools has ever managed is: “If you hate America so much, why don’t you move to Cuba!”

Such is the current state of a Reagan political appointee in today’s Republican Party. He is a “liberal commie pinko” who should move to Cuba.

The Republicans will get us into more wars. Indeed, they live for war. McCain is preaching war for 100 years. For these warmongers, it is like cheering for your home team. Win at all costs. They get a vicarious pleasure out of war. If the US has to tell lies in order to attack countries, what’s wrong with that? “If we don’t kill them over there, they will kill us over here.”

The mindlessness is total.

Nothing real issues from the American press, which is about demonizing Russia and Iran, about the vice presidential choices as if it matters, about whether Obama being on vacation let McCain score too many points.

The mindlessness of the news reflects the mindlessness of the government, for which it is a spokesperson.

The American media do not serve American democracy or American interests. They serve the few people who exercise power.

When the Soviet Union collapsed, the US and Israel made a run at controlling Russia and the former constituent parts of its empire. For awhile the US and Israel succeeded, but Putin put a stop to it.

Recognizing that the US had no intention of keeping any of the agreements it had made with Gorbachev, Putin directed the Russian military budget to upgrading the Russian nuclear deterrent. Consequently, the Russian army and air force lack the smart weapons and electronics of the US military.

When the Russian army went into Georgia to rescue the Russians in South Ossetia from the destruction being inflicted upon them by the American puppet Saakashvili, the Russians made it clear that if they were opposed by American troops with smart weapons, they would deal with the threat with tactical nuclear weapons.

The Americans were the first to announce preemptive nuclear attack as their permissible war doctrine. Now the Russians have announced the tactical use of nuclear weapons as their response to American smart weapons.

It is obvious that American foreign policy, with its goal of ringing Russia with US military bases, is leading directly to nuclear war. Every American needs to realize this fact. The US government’s insane hegemonic foreign policy is a direct threat to life on the planet.

Russia has made no threats against America. The post-Soviet Russian government has sought to cooperate with the US and Europe. Russia has made it clear over and over that it is prepared to obey international law and treaties. It is the Americans who have thrown international law and treaties into the trash can, not the Russians.

In order to keep the billions of dollars in profits flowing to its contributors in the US military-security complex, the Bush Regime has rekindled the cold war. As American living standards decline and the prospects for university graduates deteriorate, “our” leaders in Washington commit us to a hundred years of war.

If you desire to be poor, oppressed, and eventually vaporized in a nuclear war, vote Republican.

http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts08192008.html
Paul Craig Roberts was Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan administration. He was Associate Editor of the Wall Street Journal editorial page and Contributing Editor of National Review. He is coauthor of The Tyranny of Good Intentions.He can be reached at: PaulCraigRoberts@yahoo.com
 

n7ekg

Membership Revoked
<sarcasm>
Oooohhhh, everything's the fault of those evil nasty Israelis!! Quick, everyone go run out and kill every Israeli you can find!! Only then will we all be safe!!
</sarcasm>

What a load of anti-Semitic nonsense. Mr. Roberts belongs in a nursing home, not on the internet spewing garbage like this.
 

Watchingbear

Senior Member
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/sto...x?guid={0D31C880-32CD-4BA1-8133-329EA57CB069}


PAUL B. FARRELL
'America's Outrageous War Economy!'
Pentagon can't find $2.3 trillion, wasting trillions on 'national defense'
By Paul B. Farrell, MarketWatch
Last update: 7:27 p.m. EDT Aug. 18, 2008
ARROYO GRANDE, Calif. (MarketWatch) -- Yes, America's economy is a war economy. Not a "manufacturing" economy. Not an "agricultural" economy. Nor a "service" economy. Not even a "consumer" economy.
Seriously, I looked into your eyes, America, saw deep into your soul. So let's get honest and officially call it "America's Outrageous War Economy." Admit it: we secretly love our war economy. And that's the answer to Jim Grant's thought-provoking question last month in the Wall Street Journal -- "Why No Outrage?"

There really is only one answer: Deep inside we love war. We want war. Need it. Relish it. Thrive on war. War is in our genes, deep in our DNA. War excites our economic brain. War drives our entrepreneurial spirit. War thrills the American soul. Oh just admit it, we have a love affair with war. We love "America's Outrageous War Economy."
Americans passively zone out playing video war games. We nod at 90-second news clips of Afghan war casualties and collateral damage in Georgia. We laugh at Jon Stewart's dark comedic news and Ben Stiller's new war spoof "Tropic Thunder" ... all the while silently, by default, we're cheering on our leaders as they aggressively expand "America's Outrageous War Economy," a relentless machine that needs a steady diet of war after war, feeding on itself, consuming our values, always on the edge of self-destruction.

*
Why else are Americans so eager and willing to surrender 54% of their tax dollars to a war machine, which consumes 47% of the world's total military budgets?
*
Why are there more civilian mercenaries working for no-bid private war contractors than the total number of enlisted military in Iraq (180,000 to 160,000), at an added cost to taxpayers in excess of $200 billion and climbing daily?
*
Why do we shake our collective heads "yes" when our commander-in-chief proudly tells us he is a "war president;" and his party's presidential candidate chants "bomb, bomb, bomb Iran," as if "war" is a celebrity hit song?
*
Why do our spineless Democrats let an incompetent, blundering executive branch hide hundreds of billions of war costs in sneaky "supplemental appropriations" that are more crooked than Enron's off-balance-sheet deals?
*
Why have Washington's 537 elected leaders turned the governance of the American economy over to 42,000 greedy self-interest lobbyists?
*
And why earlier this year did our "support-our-troops" "war president" resist a new GI Bill because, as he said, his military might quit and go to college rather than re-enlist in his war; now we continue paying the Pentagon's warriors huge $100,000-plus bonuses to re-up so they can keep expanding "America's Outrageous War Economy?" Why? Because we secretly love war!

We've lost our moral compass: The contrast between today's leaders and the 56 signers of the Declaration of Independence in 1776 shocks our conscience. Today war greed trumps morals. During the Revolutionary War our leaders risked their lives and fortunes; many lost both.
Today it's the opposite: Too often our leaders' main goal is not public service but a ticket to building a personal fortune in the new "America's Outrageous War Economy," often by simply becoming a high-priced lobbyist.
Ultimately, the price of our greed may be the fulfillment of Kevin Phillips' warning in "Wealth and Democracy:" "Most great nations, at the peak of their economic power, become arrogant and wage great world wars at great cost, wasting vast resources, taking on huge debt, and ultimately burning themselves out."
'National defense' a propaganda slogan selling a war economy?
But wait, you ask: Isn't our $1.4 trillion war budget essential for "national defense" and "homeland security?" Don't we have to protect ourselves?
Sorry folks, but our leaders have degraded those honored principles to advertising slogans. They're little more than flag-waving excuses used by neocon war hawks to disguise the buildup of private fortunes in "America's Outrageous War Economy."
America may be a ticking time bomb, but we are threatened more by enemies within than external terrorists, by ideological fanatics on the left and the right. Most of all, we are under attack by our elected leaders who are motivated more by pure greed than ideology. They terrorize us, brainwashing us into passively letting them steal our money to finance "America's Outrageous War Economy," the ultimate "black hole" of corruption and trickle-up economics.
You think I'm kidding? I'm maybe too harsh? Sorry but others are far more brutal. Listen to the ideologies and realities eating at America's soul.
1. Our toxic 'war within' is threatening America's soul
How powerful is the Pentagon's war machine? Trillions in dollars. But worse yet: Their mindset is now locked deep in our DNA, in our collective conscience, in America's soul. Our love of war is enshrined in the writings of neocon war hawks like Norman Podoretz, who warns the Iraq War was the launching of "World War IV: The Long Struggle Against Islamofascism," a reminder that we could be occupying Iraq for a hundred years. His WW IV also reminded us of the coming apocalyptic end-of-days "war of civilizations" predicted by religious leaders in both Christian and Islamic worlds two years ago.
In contrast, this ideology has been challenged in works like Craig Unger's "American Armageddon: How the Delusions of the Neoconservatives and the Christian Right Triggered the Descent of America -- and Still Imperil Our Future."
Unfortunately, neither threat can be dismissed as "all in our minds" nor as merely ideological rhetoric. Trillions of tax dollars are in fact being spent to keep the Pentagon war machine aggressively planning and expanding wars decades in advance, including spending billions on propaganda brainwashing naïve Americans into co-signing "America's Outrageous War Economy." Yes, they really love war, but that "love" is toxic for America's soul.
2. America's war economy financed on blank checks to greedy
Read Nobel Economist Joseph Stiglitz and Harvard professor Linda Bilmes' "$3 Trillion War." They show how our government's deceitful leaders are secretly hiding the real long-term costs of the Iraq War, which was originally sold to the American taxpayer with a $50 billion price tag and funded out of oil revenues.
But add in all the lifetime veterans' health benefits, equipment placement costs, increased homeland security and interest on new federal debt, and suddenly taxpayers got a $3 trillion war tab!
3. America's war economy has no idea where its money goes
Read Portfolio magazine's special report "The Pentagon's $1 Trillion Problem." The Pentagon's 2007 budget of $440 billion included $16 billion to operate and upgrade its financial system. Unfortunately "the defense department has spent billions to fix its antiquated financial systems [but] still has no idea where its money goes."
And it gets worse: Back "in 2000, Defense's inspector general told Congress that his auditors stopped counting after finding $2.3 trillion in unsupported entries." Yikes, our war machine has no records for $2.3 trillion! How can we trust anything they say?
4. America's war economy is totally 'unmanageable'
For decades Washington has been waving that "national defense" flag, to force the public into supporting "America's Outrageous War Economy." Read John Alic's "Trillions for Military Technology: How the Pentagon Innovates and Why It Costs So Much."
A former Congressional Office of Technology Assessment staffer, he explains why weapon systems cost the Pentagon so much, "why it takes decades to get them into production even as innovation in the civilian economy becomes ever more frenetic and why some of those weapons don't work very well despite expenditures of many billions of dollars," and how "the internal politics of the armed services make weapons acquisition almost unmanageable." Yes, the Pentagon wastes trillions planning its wars well in advance.
Comments? Tell us: What will it take to wake up America, get citizens, investors, anybody mad at "America's Outrageous War Economy?"
Why don't you rebel? Will the outrage come too late ... after this massive war bubble explodes in our faces? End of Story
 
The

author of the article could have toned down some of his rhetoric, but most all his points are spot on:



The Americans were the first to announce preemptive nuclear attack as their permissible war doctrine. Now the Russians have announced the tactical use of nuclear weapons as their response to American smart weapons.

It is obvious that American foreign policy, with its goal of ringing Russia with US military bases, is leading directly to nuclear war. Every American needs to realize this fact. The US government’s insane hegemonic foreign policy is a direct threat to life on the planet.

Russia has made no threats against America. The post-Soviet Russian government has sought to cooperate with the US and Europe. Russia has made it clear over and over that it is prepared to obey international law and treaties. It is the Americans who have thrown international law and treaties into the trash can, not the Russians.
 

skip8

Membership Revoked
picardssdd.jpg
 

Anchor

Contributing Member
He's not saying vote Democrat, he's saying vote his memory of Reagan. Too bad we can't.

Leaving aside his conspiracy-hugging, if you believe this Roberts guy-- leaving all his jilted-lover anti-Republican rhetoric aside -- he seems to be saying that the Sov...uh, the Russians have been watching very, very closely what America has been doing since at least 2000, and now they're ready to pay us back politically, by calling us on all the political doctine President Bush has been spouting.

You know, the if-you're-not-with-us-you're-against-us idea that reporters just after 9/11 called the "Bush Doctrine."

So the Russians' invasion of Georgia is just their way of saying, We're with you, Bush. We're going to use your playbook but this time with OUR best interests at heart.

Kind of like kids rebelling against the "quarterback" of the opposing sandlot football team.

Only now the Russians are playing from strength, having new economic power via their oil and gas.

I remember remarking to my wife, stunned, just after one of Mr. Bush's speeches following 9/11 that his idea of, "if you even harbor terrorists you're on America's enemies list" as a huge, huge change in US foreign policy.

I guess that's what Roberts is getting at, and for that one thing, at least, he may be right.

Russia is, after all, a regional power now, not the hegemonic monster of the Cold War era. They want to play our game, even though they are and always have been brutal.

But nuclear war would be Bush's and the so-called Neocons' fault alone?

Come on, Craig Paul. Just give us a break.
 
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Warthog

Black Out
Don't worry about Pakistan's nuke's. There's strong evidence that U.S. special forces are in charge of them.:wvflg:
 

Dex

Constitutional Patriot
Ok then, one of you neocons needs to pipe in and name a "republican" constituency that ISN'T for war? Anybody? Anybody?
 
author of the article could have toned down some of his rhetoric, but most all his points are spot on:



The Americans were the first to announce preemptive nuclear attack as their permissible war doctrine. Now the Russians have announced the tactical use of nuclear weapons as their response to American smart weapons.

It is obvious that American foreign policy, with its goal of ringing Russia with US military bases, is leading directly to nuclear war. Every American needs to realize this fact. The US government’s insane hegemonic foreign policy is a direct threat to life on the planet.

Russia has made no threats against America. The post-Soviet Russian government has sought to cooperate with the US and Europe. Russia has made it clear over and over that it is prepared to obey international law and treaties. It is the Americans who have thrown international law and treaties into the trash can, not the Russians.


'Spot on' from Satan's perspective.
 

pugdog

Membership Revoked
wow another desperadum biased hit piece.:rolleyes:
your kkk brothers called, want you to come back.
 

Fulltimer

Membership Revoked
Paul Craig Roberts was Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan administration. He was Associate Editor of the Wall Street Journal editorial page and Contributing Editor of National Review.

A true Conservative with Conservative principles and the Curriculum Vitae to prove it.

He really chaps the butts of you Neoconmen doesn't he?


don;)
 

Desperado

Membership Revoked
So many typical neocon replies!
I hope most of you can debate an article by more than posting a pic, but then again that hope is fading fast.
 

mcchrystal

Inactive
(Sotto Voce)

It's the Joooooooos....the evil Joooooooos.....the Neocons are all very,
very evil Joooooooos. Peek from behind your curtains and always be
on the lookout for the Joooooooos.

And Neoconnnnns...............

-Steve in Burbank (a registered Independent Paleoconservative Jooooooooo)
 

truthseeker

Membership Revoked
So many typical neocon replies!
I hope most of you can debate an article by more than posting a pic, but then again that hope is fading fast.

I think he is saying you are a commie and I agree. By looking at pravda, you clearly are their spokesman. When the cold war get colder or hotter, I think you will be having knocks at your door there.
 

skip1

Membership Revoked
Looks Like Someone

just came back from...


Putin Youth Camp Teaches "Evils" Of USA.

1000's of pro Putin youth activists
have been attending a summer camp
in Central Russia,to learn about the
evils of the West.
The movement is called NASHI,which
means OURS.



VIDEO

Nazis.jpg



BTW: Let the IVAN lovers post what they want...makes it interesting
 

fredkc

Retired Class Clown
Don't worry about Pakistan's nuke's. There's strong evidence that U.S. special forces are in charge of them.
Gee, and here I thought there was something to worry about.
rofl.gif


Pakistan has nukes. But,
Fear not, we have them. But,
Pakistan has our guys. But,
We have Pakistan. But,
Our guy just quit.
"Yeah, right where we wan't 'em. Behind us with our pants around our ankles; but it's a start." - from movie "Inside Man".


Paul Craig Roberts was Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan administration. He was Associate Editor of the Wall Street Journal editorial page and Contributing Editor of National Review.

A true Conservative with Conservative principles and the Curriculum Vitae to prove it. He really chaps the butts of you Neoconmen doesn't he?
You bet, Fulltimer!

Dr. Paul Craig Roberts, PhD economics, is a lifelong conservative, no, I mean a real one, who stuck by his principles. He was the guy on economics at places like Town Hall, and National Review.

It took the Democrats nearly 40 years to rack up $5 trillion in "official debt", and they had help. It took the Neo's 8 years to double it. If you count all the places they've hidden spending they've exceeded that. Dr. Roberts began pointing out this wasn't anyone's definition of sound policy, much less any kind of "Conservative Thought". One by one as the Neo's took control of content the sites stopped publishing him.
 

WildDaisy

God has a plan, Trust it!
Ok then, one of you neocons needs to pipe in and name a "republican" constituency that ISN'T for war? Anybody? Anybody?

No other name needed.

RON PAUL


The sooner we withdraw the better. The invasion and continued US occupation has strengthened both Iran and Al-Qaeda in the region. Continuing down the road of a failed policy will only cost more money we do not have and more lives that should not be sacrificed. Interventionism has produced one disaster after another. It is time we return to a non-interventionist foreign policy that emphasizes peaceful trade and travel and no entangling alliances. We can begin by withdrawing from Iraq immediately. - Ron Paul


I love how both sides of the coin blame the Republicans or the Democrats for the condition this country is in on all fronts. We have no one to blame but ourselves collectively. We see what is going on with both parties and yet we somehow cannot seem to grasp that when it comes time to vote we do NOT need to "settle for the lesser of two evils" between the parties. VOTE THEM BOTH OUT. Vote Third Party.

I have wised up. I will vote for NO INCUMBENT this year. Not a one. My Presidential vote is going Third Party and where I can on the local levels.
 

Hfcomms

EN66iq
I get emails from these Brownshirts and attest that their hate-filled ignorance is extraordinary. They are all Republicans, and yet they think they are conservatives. They have no idea who I am, but since I criticize the Bush Regime and America’s belligerent foreign policy, they think I am a “liberal commie pinko.”

Thats the point I have made so many times. The 'conservative' standard has been turned on it's head in the last 35 years. It's happened so fast that you would think it would stand out like a sore thumb..and it does for some of us.

The paleo conservatives (old school) were certainly for limited government and had an extreme distrust for government just like the founding fathers did. That's why they gave us a constitution that extremely limited the power of the seperate branches and made it impossible for one man to take us to war.

The economic situation we find ourselves in is bleak. I think they are rolling the dice for another big war to either a) blame this new war on our eventual collapse or b) hope real hard and cross their fingers that this new war will give another huge economic stimulus and hold off the day of reckoning for another year or so.

Eventually it's all a moot point. The time is coming soon when we will no longer be able to afford to send our carrier strike groups around the world and the economic realities might eventually limit us to our own hemisphere....unless we get Dr. Strangelove to push the red button first. And unfortunately I wouldn't bet against it.
 

skip8

Membership Revoked
So many typical neocon replies!
I hope most of you can debate an article by more than posting a pic, but then again that hope is fading fast.

We just get so tired of doing it over and over and over.

When did 'neocon' become an assumed hurtful and derisive term in the liberal lexicon? Like it's a turd?

You wield it like it's a broad-sword slashing through old-conservatives that are now new and afresh conservatives...neo-conservatives...shortened to 'neocon'.

caddyshack200.jpg

Hey...it's no big deal!



Liberals are ashamed of 'liberal' and change it to 'progressive'.

Find 'pro-abortion' uncomfortable, and change it to 'pro-choice'.

:lkick:
 

BassMan

Veteran Member
People seem to be sensitive here to any mention of Israel, thinking Jews are being attacked. Personally, I distinguish between Jews and Israel, but I understand that others do not.

Let me explore my understanding, though. Is the following true?
  • While Jews make-up only about 2% of the US population, AIPAC is one of the most influential lobbying groups in Washington.
  • Countless Eastern Europeans long ago converted to Judaism, now reside in Israel, but still have strong ties to Eastern Europe.
I by no means concur that "Jews rule the world", any more than Catholics, Masons, Shriners, or any number of other groups. I'm just confused, since the majority of posters here imply that any hint of involvement of Israel in world affairs is a "conspiracy theory".
 

skip8

Membership Revoked
People seem to be sensitive here to any mention of Israel, thinking Jews are being attacked. Personally, I distinguish between Jews and Israel, but I understand that others do not.

Let me explore my understanding, though. Is the following true?
  • While Jews make-up only about 2% of the US population, AIPAC is one of the most influential lobbying groups in Washington.
  • Countless Eastern Europeans long ago converted to Judaism, now reside in Israel, but still have strong ties to Eastern Europe.
I by no means concur that "Jews rule the world", any more than Catholics, Masons, Shriners, or any number of other groups. I'm just confused, since the majority of posters here imply that any hint of involvement of Israel in world affairs is a "conspiracy theory".



Many folks here are sensitive to blatant and veiled antisemitism.

:rolleyes:
 
Many

people here want to kill free speech and the First Amendment.



Skip, I gotta ask, everytime you post and say we need to invade Iran and TAKE POSSESSION OF OUR OIL, what exactly is it you are saying?



"The movement is called NASHI,which means OURS"
 

Quisling

Senior Member
people here want to kill free speech and the First Amendment.

Skip, I gotta ask, everytime you post and say we need to invade Iran and TAKE POSSESSION OF OUR OIL, what exactly is it you are saying?

Good question.

Many here may not be old enough to remember that when the Shah was in power in Iran, and before Sadaam came to power in Iraq, the Israelis had an economic gold mine from the oil pumped through a pipeline from Iran to Haifa.

So, is Skip referring to the oil that Israel lost when the Mullahs shut off their pipeline?
 

Desperado

Membership Revoked
You wield it like it's a broad-sword slashing through old-conservatives that are now new and afresh conservatives...neo-conservatives...shortened to 'neocon'.

Skip you need to update your definition of NeoCon.

Neocon — someone who sees the world fundamentally through Zionist lenses and, for starters, cannot fathom any difference between the interests of the United States and Israel

Then I found this definition "Neocon: A Pollyanna with PMS" from Belacqua's Dictionary

then from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism
Conflict with libertarian conservatives
There is also conflict between neoconservatives and libertarian conservatives. Libertarian conservatives are ideologically opposed to the expansiveness of federal government programs and regard neoconservative foreign policy ambitions with outspoken distrust. They view the neoconservative promotion of preemptive war as morally unjust, dangerous to the preservation of a free society, and against the principles of the Constitution.

According to libertarian Republican Party congressman and presidential candidate Ron Paul, neoconservatives want permanent revolution, want to use force to redraw the map of the Middle East, believe in preemptive war and using armed forces to force American ideals on others, believe that the ends justify the means, do not oppose the "welfare state" and a powerful federal government, endorse an "American empire" and progressive imperialism, and unconditionally support Israel.[47]
Bill Kristol dismisses libertarian conservatives as "the extreme right".[48]
Friction with paleoconservatism

Main article: Neoconservative - Paleoconservative Conflict

Disputes over Israel and public policy contributed to a sharp conflict with 'paleoconservatives," starting in the 1980s. The movement's name ("old conservative") was taken as a rebuke to the neo side. The paleocons view the neoconservatives as "militarist social democrats" and interlopers who deviate from traditional conservatism agenda on issues as diverse as federalism, immigration, foreign policy, the welfare state, abortion, feminism and homosexuality. All of this leads to a debate over what counts as conservatism.[citation needed]

The paleoconservatives argue that neoconservatives are an illegitimate addition to the conservative movement. Pat Buchanan calls neoconservatism "a globalist, interventionist, open borders ideology."[49] The open rift is often traced back to a 1981 dispute over Ronald Reagan's nomination of Mel Bradford, a Southerner, to run the National Endowment for the Humanities. Bradford withdrew after neoconservatives complained that he had criticized Abraham Lincoln; the paleoconservatives supported Bradford.
 
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skip8

Membership Revoked
Skip you need to update your definition of NeoCon.

Neocon — someone who sees the world fundamentally through Zionist lenses and, for starters, cannot fathom any difference between the interests of the United States and Israel

Then I found this definition "Neocon: A Pollyanna with PMS" from Belacqua's Dictionary

then from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism
Conflict with libertarian conservatives
There is also conflict between neoconservatives and libertarian conservatives. Libertarian conservatives are ideologically opposed to the expansiveness of federal government programs and regard neoconservative foreign policy ambitions with outspoken distrust. They view the neoconservative promotion of preemptive war as morally unjust, dangerous to the preservation of a free society, and against the principles of the Constitution.

According to libertarian Republican Party congressman and presidential candidate Ron Paul, neoconservatives want permanent revolution, want to use force to redraw the map of the Middle East, believe in preemptive war and using armed forces to force American ideals on others, believe that the ends justify the means, do not oppose the "welfare state" and a powerful federal government, endorse an "American empire" and progressive imperialism, and unconditionally support Israel.[47]
Bill Kristol dismisses libertarian conservatives as "the extreme right".[48]
Friction with paleoconservatism

Main article: Neoconservative - Paleoconservative Conflict

Disputes over Israel and public policy contributed to a sharp conflict with 'paleoconservatives," starting in the 1980s. The movement's name ("old conservative") was taken as a rebuke to the neo side. The paleocons view the neoconservatives as "militarist social democrats" and interlopers who deviate from traditional conservatism agenda on issues as diverse as federalism, immigration, foreign policy, the welfare state, abortion, feminism and homosexuality. All of this leads to a debate over what counts as conservatism.[citation needed]

The paleoconservatives argue that neoconservatives are an illegitimate addition to the conservative movement. Pat Buchanan calls neoconservatism "a globalist, interventionist, open borders ideology."[49] The open rift is often traced back to a 1981 dispute over Ronald Reagan's nomination of Mel Bradford, a Southerner, to run the National Endowment for the Humanities. Bradford withdrew after neoconservatives complained that he had criticized Abraham Lincoln; the paleoconservatives supported Bradford.


I like my definition of neoconservative.

I think I may just add it to the Wikipedia page with all the other personal, subjective and biased definitions from all the other *ick-head experts that can edit Wikipedia...what a joke.

:stfu:
 
well

Don't worry about Pakistan's nuke's. There's strong evidence that U.S. special forces are in charge of them.



I haven't seen the slightest real proof that all Pakistani nukes are not under the total control of the Pakistani military.


There may be some US forces in the facilities where the nukes are housed, but again I haven't seen any real evidence of that, and I have seen several Pakistani quotes that very large numbers of their military are at those sites and in supporting distance of them. And that several nukes are secreted away where only the Paki's know where.

In other words, a handful of 'special forces' most likely haven't got a prayer of getting them out without the full cooperation of the Pakistani's, which they most certainly will never give.

They are a proud and hot headed race, and they really think they need their nukes against India, their traditional enemy.

Yeah, I think Pakistani nukes are a far greater threat than the unbuilt Iranian ones at this point.
 

Desperado

Membership Revoked
I like my definition of neoconservative.

I think I may just add it to the Wikipedia page with all the other personal, subjective and biased definitions from all the other *ick-head experts that can edit Wikipedia...what a joke.

:stfu:

Go ahead, I'll be looking for it,
 

GB_Cobber

Inactive
The greatest mindlessness is that of the willing slaves of war machines. Those prepared to kill for a belief.

It is they for whom wars are fought.

Not the wealth or the territory, the oil or the prestige.

Everthing under heaven has a purpose in heaven.

Belief defies universal law and thusly will be defied by and in perfection.
 

Wardogs

Deceased
The greatest mindlessness is that of the willing slaves of war machines. Those prepared to kill for a belief.

Wow, I can't believe some of the things being posted here.
GB, I'd hate to think where we would be if there were not some of us ready to both kill and die "for a belief"...

I am not a President Bush fan, neither do I hate him to the point of psychosis. This is not about Bush, it is about us, as Americans. Not conservatives or liberals, neocons or libertarians...Americans.

Can you imagine living in the country of Georgia right now? Very few of us know what it is like to live in fear for our lives in a very real and very serious way. Even those of us that have experienced that stress because of military service did so, armed.
I try to imagine the level of stress and fear of people who face forces trying to destroy their lives, but even though I spent a good deal of time in a combat zone I’m one of the lucky ones born in a very free society and knew that for me at least, I would eventually go home.

Our country has its issues, we have our fears, but we don’t have tanks from another country aiming for our police cruisers. (Btw., are there rogue generals or are the Russians not getting what “pull out” means?)

We have arrogant fools in this country. We have some right on this board. They have no idea how good they have it. In fact, that arrogance is a product of how good we have it.


The other day I was reading Newsweek magazine and came across some Poll numbers I found rather hard to believe. It must be true though, given the source, right?

The poll alleges that 67 percent of Americans are unhappy with the direction the country is headed and 69 percent of the country is unhappy with the performance of the President. ( It didn’t mention the 90% or so who think Congress is an utter failure…)

In essence 2/3 of the citizenry just ain't happy and want a change. So being the knuckle dragging necon that I am, I started thinking, 'What are we so unhappy about'?'


Is it that we have electricity and running water 24 hours a day, 7 Days a week?

Is our unhappiness the result of having air conditioning in the summer and heating in the winter?

Could it be that 95.4 percent of these unhappy folks have a job?

Maybe it is the ability to walk into a grocery store at any time and see more food in moments than Darfur has seen in the last year?

Maybe it is the ability to drive our cars and trucks from the Pacific Ocean to the Atlantic Ocean without having to present identification papers as we move through each state?

Or possibly the hundreds of clean and safe motels we would find along the way that can provide temporary shelter?

I guess having thousands of restaurants with varying cuisine from around the world is just not good enough either.

Or could it be that when we wreck our car, emergency workers show up and provide services to help all and even send a helicopter to take you to the hospital.

Perhaps you are one of the large percent of Americans who own a home, and despite the doom and gloomers, will continue to own it if you were responsible about your ability to pay for it.

You may be upset with knowing that in the unfortunate case of a fire, a group of trained firefighters will appear in moments and use top notch equipment to extinguish the flames, thus saving you, your family, and your belongings.

Or if, while at home watching one of your many flat screen TVs, a burglar or prowler intrudes, you have the right to use force to protect yourself.

This all in the backdrop of a neighborhood free of bombs or militias raping and pillaging the residents. Neighborhoods where 90% of teenagers own cell phones and computers. (Even in the worst urban slums)…

How about the complete religious, social and political freedoms we enjoy that are the envy of everyone in the world?

Maybe that is what has 67% of you folks unhappy.

Fact is, we are the largest group of ungrateful, spoiled brats the world has ever seen. No wonder the world loves the U.S. , yet has a great disdain for its citizens. They see us for what we are. The most blessed people in the world who do nothing but complain about what we don't have, and what we hate about the country instead of thanking the good Lord we live here.

I know, I know. What about the president who took us into war and has no plan to get us out? The president who has a measly 31 percent approval rating? Who is busily trying to undermine the Constitution and deprive us of our rights, so he can inter us all in FEMA camps while the CFR, and Bildeburgers plot our enslavement and we become one with Mexico and Canada…

Is this the same president who guided the nation in the dark days after 9/11? (How different would it have been if Gore had been in his place...) Could this be the same guy who has been called every name in the book for succeeding in keeping all the spoiled ungrateful brats safe from terrorist attacks? The commander in chief of an all-volunteer army that is out there defending you and me?

Did you hear how bad the President is on the news or talk show? On a blog or a discussion site? Did this news affect you so much, make you so unhappy you couldn't take a look around for yourself and see all the good things and be glad? Think about it......are you upset at the President because he actually caused you personal pain OR is it because the 'Media' told you he was failing to kiss your sorry ungrateful ass every day. What exactly do YOU DO to change what upsets you, or do you just whine and complain?

Make no mistake about it, the troops in Iraq and Afghanistan have volunteered to serve, and in many cases have died for your freedom. There is currently no draft in this country. They didn't have to go. They are able to refuse to go and end up with either a ''general'' discharge, an 'other than honorable'' discharge or, worst case scenario, a ''dishonorable'' discharge after a short time in the brig.

So why then the flat-out discontentment in the minds of 69 percent of Americans?

Say what you want but I blame it on the media. “If it bleeds it leads” and they specialize in bad news. Everybody will watch a car crash with blood and guts. How many will watch kids selling lemonade at the corner? Why do they refuse to cover any gains our military makes and focus instead on setbacks?
As Iraq is subdued, we watch the media start the same process in Afghanistan. No agenda here, right?

They offer what sells, and when criticized, try to defend their actions by 'justifying' them in one way or another. Just ask why they tried to allow a murderer like O.J. Simpson to write a book about how he didn't kill his wife, but if he did he would have done it this way, yet they are afraid to publish a book that criticizes Islam, so as not to "offend" delicate sensibilities...Insane!

Turn off the TV, burn Newsweek, and use the New York Times for the bottom of your bird cage Stop listening to the Huffington Post, Daily Kos and all those who hate America, who have never sacrificed a thing to make it better but like some here, spout their vitriol because they hate Bush, or view everything through their own bigotry and prejudice.

Then, start being grateful for all we have as a country. There is exponentially more good than bad. If you don’t like the way it’s heading, CHANGE IT. Get involved.
Virtually every one of the major problems we are dealing with today can be traced back to our dependence on foreign energy in some way or other. Yet we have a Congress that refuses to deal with it or allow us to break those chains. How long could OPEC or Russia survive or wield influence without petro dollars? The oil kingdoms of the ME would fade back into living in goatskin tents just like they were before America’s technology brought their oil from the ground.

We are among the most blessed people on Earth and should thank God several times a day, or at least be appreciative.
With hurricanes, tornadoes, fires out of control, mud slides, flooding, severe thunderstorms tearing up the country from one end to another, and with the threat of nukes, bird flu, terrorist attacks and everything else we face at this hour, are we sure this is a good time to take God out of the Pledge of Allegiance? Or elect a racist, Marxist, inexperienced appeaser who wants to expand the nanny state?

Some "beliefs" are worth fighting and dying for...

wardogs
 
Last edited:

pajamas

Member
Wow, I can't believe some of the things being posted here.
GB, I'd hate to think where we would be if there were not some of us ready to both kill and die "for a belief"...

I am not a President Bush fan, neither do I hate him to the point of psychosis. This is not about Bush, it is about us, as Americans. Not conservatives or liberals, neocons or libertarians...Americans.

Can you imagine living in the country of Georgia right now? Very few of us know what it is like to live in fear for our lives in a very real and very serious way. Even those that have experienced that stress because of military service did so, armed.
I try to imagine the level of stress and fear of people who face forces trying to destroy their lives, but even though I spent a good deal of time in a combat zone I’m one of the lucky ones born in a very free society and knew that for me at least, I would eventually go home.

Our country has its issues, we have our fears, but we don’t have tanks from another country aiming for our police cruisers. (Btw., are there rogue generals or are the Russians not getting what “pull out” means?)

We have arrogant fools in this country. We have some right on this board. They have no idea how good they have it. In fact, that arrogance is a product of how good we have it.


The other day I was reading Newsweek magazine and came across some Poll numbers I found rather hard to believe. It must be true though, given the source, right?

The poll alleges that 67 percent of Americans are unhappy with the direction the country is headed and 69 percent of the country is unhappy with the performance of the President. ( It didn’t mention the 90% or so who think Congress is an utter failure…)

In essence 2/3 of the citizenry just ain't happy and want a change. So being the knuckle dragging necon that I am, I started thinking, 'What are we so unhappy about'?'


Is it that we have electricity and running water 24 hours a day, 7 Days a week?

Is our unhappiness the result of having air conditioning in the summer and heating in the winter?

Could it be that 95.4 percent of these unhappy folks have a job?

Maybe it is the ability to walk into a grocery store at any time and see more food in moments than Darfur has seen in the last year?

Maybe it is the ability to drive our cars and trucks from the Pacific Ocean to the Atlantic Ocean without having to present identification papers as we move through each state?

Or possibly the hundreds of clean and safe motels we would find along the way that can provide temporary shelter?

I guess having thousands of restaurants with varying cuisine from around the world is just not good enough either.

Or could it be that when we wreck our car, emergency workers show up and provide services to help all and even send a helicopter to take you to the hospital.

Perhaps you are one of the large percent of Americans who own a home, and despite the doom and gloomers, will continue to own it if you were responsible about your ability to pay for it.

You may be upset with knowing that in the unfortunate case of a fire, a group of trained firefighters will appear in moments and use top notch equipment to extinguish the flames, thus saving you, your family, and your belongings.

Or if, while at home watching one of your many flat screen TVs, a burglar or prowler intrudes, you have the right to use force to protect yourself.

This all in the backdrop of a neighborhood free of bombs or militias raping and pillaging the residents. Neighborhoods where 90% of teenagers own cell phones and computers. (Even in the worst urban slums)…

How about the complete religious, social and political freedoms we enjoy that are the envy of everyone in the world?

Maybe that is what has 67% of you folks unhappy.

Fact is, we are the largest group of ungrateful, spoiled brats the world has ever seen. No wonder the world loves the U.S. , yet has a great disdain for its citizens. They see us for what we are. The most blessed people in the world who do nothing but complain about what we don't have, and what we hate about the country instead of thanking the good Lord we live here.

I know, I know. What about the president who took us into war and has no plan to get us out? The president who has a measly 31 percent approval rating? Who is busily trying to undermine the Constitution and deprive us of our rights, so he can inter us all in FEMA camps while the CFR, and Bildeburgers plot our enslavement and we become one with Mexico and Canada…

Is this the same president who guided the nation in the dark days after 9/11? (How different would it have been if Gore had been in his place...) Could this be the same guy who has been called every name in the book for succeeding in keeping all the spoiled ungrateful brats safe from terrorist attacks? The commander in chief of an all-volunteer army that is out there defending you and me?

Did you hear how bad the President is on the news or talk show? On a blog or a discussion site? Did this news affect you so much, make you so unhappy you couldn't take a look around for yourself and see all the good things and be glad? Think about it......are you upset at the President because he actually caused you personal pain OR is it because the 'Media' told you he was failing to kiss your sorry ungrateful ass every day. What exactly do YOU DO to change what upsets you, or do you just whine and complain?

Make no mistake about it, the troops in Iraq and Afghanistan have volunteered to serve, and in many cases have died for your freedom. There is currently no draft in this country. They didn't have to go. They are able to refuse to go and end up with either a ''general'' discharge, an 'other than honorable'' discharge or, worst case scenario, a ''dishonorable'' discharge after a short time in the brig.

So why then the flat-out discontentment in the minds of 69 percent of Americans?

Say what you want but I blame it on the media. “If it bleeds it leads” and they specialize in bad news. Everybody will watch a car crash with blood and guts. How many will watch kids selling lemonade at the corner? Why do they refuse to cover any gains our military makes and focus instead on setbacks?
As Iraq is subdued, we watch the media start the same process in Afghanistan. No agenda here, right?

They offer what sells, and when criticized, try to defend their actions by 'justifying' them in one way or another. Just ask why they tried to allow a murderer like O.J. Simpson to write a book about how he didn't kill his wife, but if he did he would have done it this way, yet they are afraid to publish a book that criticizes Islam, so as not to "offend" delicate sensibilities...Insane!

Turn off the TV, burn Newsweek, and use the New York Times for the bottom of your bird cage Stop listening to the Huffington Post, Daily Kos and all those who hate America, who have never sacrificed a thing to make it better but like some here, spout their vitriol because they hate Bush, or view everything through their own bigotry and prejudice.

Then, start being grateful for all we have as a country. There is exponentially more good than bad. If you don’t like the way it’s heading, CHANGE IT. Get involved.
Virtually every one of the major problems we are dealing with today can be traced back to our dependence on foreign energy in some way or other. Yet we have a Congress that refuses to deal with it or allow us to break those chains. How long could OPEC or Russia survive or wield influence without petro dollars? The oil kingdoms of the ME would fade back into living in goatskin tents just like they were before America’s technology brought their oil from the ground.

We are among the most blessed people on Earth and should thank God several times a day, or at least be appreciative.
With hurricanes, tornadoes, fires out of control, mud slides, flooding, severe thunderstorms tearing up the country from one end to another, and with the threat of nukes, bird flu, terrorist attacks and everything else we face at this hour, are we sure this is a good time to take God out of the Pledge of Allegiance? Or elect a racist, Marxist, inexperienced appeaser who wants to expand the nanny state?

Some ideas are worth fighting and dying for...

wardogs

That was a fantastic read, wardogs! Thank you! :chg:
 
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