The last flu pandemic was NOT 1918!

spinnerholic

Inactive
Both of the most recent global flu pandemics were caused by human flu viruses that picked up some bird flu components - in 1957 and 1968.

Please note that the world didn't end in either pandemic!

Fair use claimed for educational purposes. http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/08/opinion/08sat2.html?hp

October 8, 2005
Bird Flu and the 1918 Pandemic

There are both frightening and promising implications in this week's announcement that research teams have deciphered the genetic sequence of the devastating 1918 influenza virus and have synthesized the lethal germ in a high-security laboratory. The feat is a scientific tour de force that should provide important insights on the best way to respond to the avian influenza strain now circulating in Asia. The worrisome news is that the 1918 virus appears to have jumped directly from birds to humans, and that the genetic changes that allowed it to do so are already beginning to appear in the avian strain, known as H5N1, which has killed large numbers of birds and about 60 people in four Asian countries.

The two most recent global pandemics, in 1957 and 1968, were caused by human flu viruses that picked up some bird flu components. Now it turns out that the far more lethal 1918 virus, which killed perhaps 20 to 100 million people, was most likely an avian strain that jumped directly into humans. That gives today's avian strain two routes to wreak havoc among humans. It could either mix some of its genes with human influenza, like the 1957 and 1968 viruses, or it could mutate on its own to become easily transmissible among humans, like the 1918 virus.

So far, the avian virus has rarely jumped from birds to humans and seldom spread from one human to another. But it may be traveling slowly down the same evolutionary path as the 1918 virus. Two top federal health officials said that the H5N1 virus has already acquired five of the 10 genetic sequence changes associated with human-to-human transmission of the 1918 virus.

That does not necessarily mean that catastrophe is imminent. Nobody knows how likely it is that further mutations will occur or how long the process may take. The avian virus has been around for decades without turning into a monster.

The new findings offer promising leads to health officials who are concerned about preparing for a possible pandemic. Scientists should be able to prepare a checklist of the most worrisome genetic changes so they can monitor the evolution of the avian flu virus and rush medical help to any area where it looks as if the virus is becoming more transmissible. They may also be able to develop drugs and vaccines aimed at the most important genetic targets, thus allowing them to treat or even prevent influenza more effectively.

Nobody knows whether the avian strain now under the spotlight will become a big threat to humans. But some day a potential pandemic strain will arrive. The new findings could help develop tools to contain it.

*************************
Much of the MSM is doing what it does best - fear mongering. It's way too soon to panic! What we should be doing is asking lots of questions of our government - at every level. For instance, wouldn't it make a lot more sense to start organizing the medical community rather than demanding Congress give Bush authority to call out the military? Medics are good are fighting disease and saving lives. The military is trained to take lives. If we have a bad flu pandemic hit a part or parts of this country, I can't see how having the military called out and ready to kill off more people is going to help anything.

The way to fight exposure to deadly flu for most of us is not to be around people who are sick - STAY HOME. Requiring people to stay home for the amount of time the waves of infection take to run their course is a very intelligent way of limiting the illness and body count. That means our Great Leaders ought to be working out plans (that WORK) to get food and water and baby supplies as well as ordinary medical supplies to people who are in their homes! FEMA and/or Homeland Security are not able to move ice, much less handle something like a deadly flu pandemic. Close schools and movies and stores and everything else - keep people off the streets and at home. We need people to keep the electricity and water and sewer and such going but we also have gear those folks can wear that will stop them from catching the flu bug. Keep the phones and the internet going. Make deliveries of food and such to homes, every week or two. Establish a way for people who do get sick to summon the needed medical help. Yes, shutting down tight for 6 weeks to 6 months will trash the profit margins of many businesses but that won't permanently impact the economy nearly as badly as millions of deaths and bodies rotting in the streets - again.


We have now and have had for decades the technology to allow medical specialists to go into the heart of epidemics of Ebola and Marburg and other such terrible diseases (which started out with death rates of over 90%) to fight them and bring them to a stop. If we can use that knowledge and expertise in far flung villages in tiny countries, why the devil aren't plans being made to do the same here. It will be on a much larger scale of course, but hey! Aren't we the "CAN DO" country?
 

kelee877

Veteran Member
There was abig differnce between the 1918 pandemic..it was a pandemic world wide..the 2 later ones where not world wide they where pocketed cases..and I think if I have read properly they where totally 2 different strains..there are different h combinations and the one on the way is going to be like the one in 1918..if I find more info on this I will post...

I was confused at first then read a news artical that gave a discription of the differences of the flu,s..try a google search that might help and I hope this nfo has been usefull...
 

Tweakette

Irrelevant
Two top federal health officials said that the H5N1 virus has already acquired five of the 10 genetic sequence changes associated with human-to-human transmission of the 1918 virus.

I wonder if those of us who had family members that lived through the 1918 flu will have some built-in resistance to H5N1, if some of the genetic sequences are the same.

Tweak
 

Eddie Willers

Membership Revoked
This is all just fear mongering. Medicine has made great advances since 1968. Most of the deaths of 1918 were attributable to secondary bacterial infections and lack of nutrition.

Though the poorer Asian countries may be in bad shape, the US has little to fear from the bird flu. Just look at the Hong Kong flu - much ado about little.

I'd be more worried about stagflation.

'Eddie
 

Toto

Inactive
I agree with Eddie.

Unless and until the actual death count goes over 30,000 (not the 50 or 60 currently reported), it is very hard for me to see this as anything other than VERY CONVENIENT HYPE!!!
 

daisy

Inactive
The way to fight exposure to deadly flu for most of us is not to be around people who are sick - STAY HOME.
Exactly! But people won't do that, some will but others either won't or can't.

my dad had the Hong Kong flu in 68.
I had the Hong Kong flu in 68 when I was 5 years old. I thought I was going to die (even at 5), had to go to the hospital 105-6 degree temps, parents couldn't do anything to bring it down..... it was HELL. I've never been that sick again in my life and pray to God to never experience anything like that again.

I wonder if those of us who had family members that lived through the 1918 flu will have some built-in resistance to H5N1, if some of the genetic sequences are the same.
I hope so!
 

Gayla

Membership Revoked
Eddie Willers said:
This is all just fear mongering. Medicine has made great advances since 1968. Most of the deaths of 1918 were attributable to secondary bacterial infections and lack of nutrition.

Though the poorer Asian countries may be in bad shape, the US has little to fear from the bird flu. Just look at the Hong Kong flu - much ado about little.

I'd be more worried about stagflation.

'Eddie

Agreed Eddie.

People in the U.S. will die this winter from the cold (especially the elderly who don't have money to pay for heat) not from bird flu.

Keeping an eye on it is important, but our focus needs to be on preparing for winter and high prices in my opinion.
 

BB

Membership Revoked
I caught both the 1957 AND 1968 viruses. Had nothing to do with bad nutrition. They are saying that this strain of bird flu seems to hit the healthiest the worse!Once these bugs become airborne they only need the right temperatures.

I have no doubt that the Pharmaceutical companies have a lot of politicians in their pockets, so we do have to be careful about the hype. I'm listening to Dr. Niman myself. He seems to be an objective source and expert on flu and doesn't seem to be controlled by anyone or any company. I read his commentaries on the spread of this flu everyday and he is very very concerned about this strain of flu.

Just click this on everyday and you can read his daily updates. Decide for yourselves what is going on. It's your life and lives of your loved ones.
http://www.recombinomics.com/whats_new.html
 

NoCarrier

Membership Revoked
Eddie Willers said:
This is all just fear mongering. Medicine has made great advances since 1968. Most of the deaths of 1918 were attributable to secondary bacterial infections and lack of nutrition.

Not true.

http://www.ninthday.com/spanish_flu.htm

"By the fall of 1918 a strain of influenza seemingly no different from that of previous years suddenly turned so deadly, and engendered such a state of panic and chaos in communities across the globe, that many people believed the world was coming to an end. It struck with amazing speed, often killing its victims within just hours of the first signs of infection. So fast did the 1918 strain overwhelm the body's natural defenses, that the usual cause of death in influenza patients---a secondary infection of lethal pneumonia---oftentimes never had a chance to establish itself. Instead, the virus caused an uncontrollable hemorrhaging that filled the lungs, and patients would drown in their own body fluids.

Not only was the Spanish Flu strikingly virulent, but it displayed an unusual preference in its choice of victims---tending to select young healthy adults over those with weakened immune systems, as in the very young, the very old, and the infirm. The normal age distribution for flu mortality was completely reversed, and had the effect of gouging from society's infrastructure the bulk of those responsible for its day to day maintenance. No wonder people thought the social order was breaking down. It very nearly did."
 

NoCarrier

Membership Revoked
Tweakette said:
Two top federal health officials said that the H5N1 virus has already acquired five of the 10 genetic sequence changes associated with human-to-human transmission of the 1918 virus.

I wonder if those of us who had family members that lived through the 1918 flu will have some built-in resistance to H5N1, if some of the genetic sequences are the same.

Tweak

No we do not have some built-in resistance.

Spanish flu was H1N1.

The current avian flu virus = H5N1. It's a new virus.
 

Mary

My Drawing of Monet
I heard on the radio last night that the 1918 flu was H1N1 -- which is kinda weird. Which is why they are studying that particular strain indepth.

Mary (no garden, no lamb) :scn:
 

NoCarrier

Membership Revoked
Mary said:
I heard on the radio last night that the 1918 flu was H1N1 -- which is kinda weird. Which is why they are studying that particular strain indepth.

Mary (no garden, no lamb) :scn:

Because scientists wanted to know more about that particular deadly flu strain. They started working on this project 10 years ago. Scientists know we are overdue for a new pandemic. And now that we have H5N1, they want to know the difference between the 2 strains.

Spanish Flu ( H1N1) was also an avian flu virus and mutated to become a nasty one.

Scientists never had the opportunity to study or prepare for a pandemic. They wanted to know what H5N1 is missing to start one.
 

Gayla

Membership Revoked
NoCarrier said:
Not true.

http://www.ninthday.com/spanish_flu.htm

"By the fall of 1918 a strain of influenza seemingly no different from that of previous years suddenly turned so deadly, and engendered such a state of panic and chaos in communities across the globe, that many people believed the world was coming to an end. It struck with amazing speed, often killing its victims within just hours of the first signs of infection. So fast did the 1918 strain overwhelm the body's natural defenses, that the usual cause of death in influenza patients---a secondary infection of lethal pneumonia---oftentimes never had a chance to establish itself. Instead, the virus caused an uncontrollable hemorrhaging that filled the lungs, and patients would drown in their own body fluids.

Not only was the Spanish Flu strikingly virulent, but it displayed an unusual preference in its choice of victims---tending to select young healthy adults over those with weakened immune systems, as in the very young, the very old, and the infirm. The normal age distribution for flu mortality was completely reversed, and had the effect of gouging from society's infrastructure the bulk of those responsible for its day to day maintenance. No wonder people thought the social order was breaking down. It very nearly did."

Depends on who you read and believe, NoCarrier. Who is Ninth Day?

Here is another article:

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: They died--people died very quickly. Their lungs filled up. Is that what happened?

DR. JEFFREY TAUBENBERGER: Certainly. A subset of patients died extremely quickly, within two or three or four days of symptoms. And one of the problems was an accumulation of massive amounts of fluid in the lungs, pulmonary edema, and these patients in a sense literally drowned. Other people died of secondary infections with bacterial pneumonia. Antibiotics were not known to exist in 1918, and there was no way to treat those secondary infections.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/health/march97/1918_3-24.html
 

Toto

Inactive
Originally Posted by Mary
I heard on the radio last night that the 1918 flu was H1N1 -- which is kinda weird. Which is why they are studying that particular strain indepth.

That is no secret. It is because that particular strain was so much more lethal than any others to that point. Many more deaths among those who contracted the illness. That's what they are after, and haven't been able to achieve yet with the previous scares. You know, "asian flu, SARS,...."
 

NoCarrier

Membership Revoked
Gayla said:
Depends on who you read and believe, NoCarrier. Who is Ninth Day?

Here is another article:

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: They died--people died very quickly. Their lungs filled up. Is that what happened?

DR. JEFFREY TAUBENBERGER: Certainly. A subset of patients died extremely quickly, within two or three or four days of symptoms. And one of the problems was an accumulation of massive amounts of fluid in the lungs, pulmonary edema, and these patients in a sense literally drowned. Other people died of secondary infections with bacterial pneumonia. Antibiotics were not known to exist in 1918, and there was no way to treat those secondary infections.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/health/march97/1918_3-24.html

I understand that many people think that antiobiotics will save them. But that's not the case. Most people who got infected with H5N1 needed a respirator to survive. If antiobiotics were so effective, countries would not be buying Tamiflu by the millions.
 

DayByDay

Membership Revoked
They're talking about treating the secondary infections, meaning bacterial, with antibiotics; not the initial viral infection.
 

dreamseeer

Membership Revoked
Tweakette said:
Two top federal health officials said that the H5N1 virus has already acquired five of the 10 genetic sequence changes associated with human-to-human transmission of the 1918 virus.

I wonder if those of us who had family members that lived through the 1918 flu will have some built-in resistance to H5N1, if some of the genetic sequences are the same.

Tweak
Now that is an interesting thought.

My mother who survived the 1918 flu WAS a little bit different in her genetic make-up I think. She never got ANY of the childhood illnesses either like chicken pox, mumps or measles. Lets hope in this case I truely am my mothers child.

My mother's pet as a child.......... was a chicken (bird) :D
 

dreamseeer

Membership Revoked
NoCarrier said:
I understand that many people think that antiobiotics will save them. But that's not the case. Most people who got infected with H5N1 needed a respirator to survive. If antiobiotics were so effective, countries would not be buying Tamiflu by the millions.
From what I have been reading....needing the respirator is because this flu causes a "cytokine storm". (like an over reaction of your immune system to defend you.....but instead it kills you.
 

Tweakette

Irrelevant
The current avian flu virus = H5N1. It's a new virus.

Yes, the sum total of it is new but there may be chunks of it's genome that it picked up from other flu viruses or from other avian flu's that we've had before.
The DNA inside a virus is like a long string of Leggo, not a discrete unit. The Leggo strand can break and flip over, pick up chunks of other Leggo assemblies, etc. as it travels through it's series of hosts.
Some of those Leggos, or the order in which they are attached to each other, may be the same as in prior human flu viruses.

There is a LOT of DNA in a virus, and with it mutating and recombining I can only hope that it will pick up a chunk of DNA on it's travels that our immune system will recognize and react to appropriately (and not overreact to).

The only way they'll know is by gene sequencing the H5N1 and also doing the same with other known flu viruses, including H1N1.

Not being a virologist, I don't know how much of the virus has to be recognizable by the human immune system for it to act on it. 1% in common with, say, last years regular flu probably wouldn't do it. But if it had 20% in common with last years, maybe some of us who had it last year are immune.

And as I remember the recognition by the immune system is at the level of the expression of the gene (the makeup of the protein coat of the outside of the virus) not the gene itself. So whatever it picks up has to make it look at least somewhat like something our bodies have seen before for our immune system to pick up on it.

That statement by the fed officials that I referred to made me believe that they are sequencing it and seeing that at least some it is is similiar to the 1918 flu. What this means to our health, who knows at this point.

Tweak
 

NoCarrier

Membership Revoked
Tweakette said:
The current avian flu virus = H5N1. It's a new virus.

Yes, the sum total of it is new but there may be chunks of it's genome that it picked up from other flu viruses or from other avian flu's that we've had before.
The DNA inside a virus is like a long string of Leggo, not a discrete unit. The Leggo strand can break and flip over, pick up chunks of other Leggo assemblies, etc. as it travels through it's series of hosts.
Some of those Leggos, or the order in which they are attached to each other, may be the same as in prior human flu viruses.

There is a LOT of DNA in a virus, and with it mutating and recombining I can only hope that it will pick up a chunk of DNA on it's travels that our immune system will recognize and react to appropriately (and not overreact to).

The only way they'll know is by gene sequencing the H5N1 and also doing the same with other known flu viruses, including H1N1.

Not being a virologist, I don't know how much of the virus has to be recognizable by the human immune system for it to act on it. 1% in common with, say, last years regular flu probably wouldn't do it. But if it had 20% in common with last years, maybe some of us who had it last year are immune.

And as I remember the recognition by the immune system is at the level of the expression of the gene (the makeup of the protein coat of the outside of the virus) not the gene itself. So whatever it picks up has to make it look at least somewhat like something our bodies have seen before for our immune system to pick up on it.

That statement by the fed officials that I referred to made me believe that they are sequencing it and seeing that at least some it is is similiar to the 1918 flu. What this means to our health, who knows at this point.

Tweak

You are right. But we are talking about a bird virus here. It's never been in humans before. The first time was in 1997 (The Hong Kong incident). So that virus propably never acquired genes or mutations from another human virus. This is what we are afraid of. That it might acquire genes from another human flu virus. If it happens, it's going to learn how to INFECT human cells. But that doesn't mean we will have immunity against it.

Basically, if H5N1 infects someone with a current flu virus like H3N2, it might get the key and learn how to infect other humans, but learning how to infect people, does not give immunity to them. There is a difference between that.

That's why scientists said that H5N1 is acquiring the same genes, but it's not about immunity, it's about "learning to infect humans".
 

fruit loop

Inactive
"Bird" flu is not new either

LOTS of flu viruses have bird strains.

No, the 1918 was NOT the only flu pandemic. There have been many others, including one in the 1870s. It's simply the most memorable because so many people died and because it was a flu type previously unknown.

"Bird" flu is also not new....one strain in the 1970s was comprised of THREE strains from birds.

The danger in "bird" and "swine" flu is the MUTATION of the virus. Flu viruses mutate constantly, and if a strain jumps from humans to birds to pigs and vice versa there is the danger that it will breed a new, "SuperFlu" strain that's particularly vicious.

THAT is what happened in 1918 and in the Hong Kong pandemics.

I also had the Hong Kong flu. Got pneumonia from it but survived.

Remember that the flu itself DOES NOT KILL. It simply suppresses the immune system so that you're a sitting duck for SECONDARY INFECTIONS such as pneumonia and bronchities.

This is why antibiotics are useless for the flu: your own body must cure the infection itself.

The Superflu bugs are so strong that they can overwhelm a person's immune system before it can muster a fight against the disease, but I'm still convinced that many people in 1918 were victims of secondary infections.....they did not have the fever-reducing and antibiotic drugs we do today.

Those people who "got sick in the morning and dropped dead that night!" may have been sick before that. There are many, many accounts of people who hid their illness so they could continue to move around....especially poor people.

The soldiers had just come home from World War I. Their immune systems were probably suppressed from the bad conditions in the trenches, and sanitation was quite bad back then.

I don't think the death toll would be as bad today,
 

ceeblue

Veteran Member
In '57 my Mom took care of us five little pukers. It was just the flu. I do remember standing in line waiting for my turn to puke.

1968 was my first year in the factories. That was fun. All I remember about it is all the whining and moaning and groaning. See, we all got our butts back to work asap, usually the third day, and it took a couple weeks to really recover. The whining was worse that the flu.

My neighbor served in the Army during World War I as a bugler blowing morning revillie somewhere in or around the Carolinas. Three times his unit was scheduled to ship out. Three times they stayed because the whole bunch had the flu, but not my neighbor. I wonder if he blew it out his bugle. Wish I could remember more. It's only been since '57 when we had that conversation :).
 

Gayla

Membership Revoked
I thought this was an interesting bit of history:


In this 1918 photograph provided by the National Museum of Health, influenza victims crowd into an emergency hospital at Camp Funston, a subdivision of Fort Riley in Kansas. Increasing fears of a bird flu pandemic are forcing U.S. officials to face up to problems with the country's troubled flu vaccine industry. President Bush sat down with the chiefs of six vaccine manufacturing companies as well as federal health officials Friday, Oct. 7, 2005, urging them to ramp up production to counter the threat of bird flu. (AP Photo/National Museum of Health, File)
 

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ferret

Membership Revoked
NoCarrier said:
Not true... Not only was the Spanish Flu strikingly virulent, but it displayed an unusual preference in its choice of victims---tending to select young healthy adults over those with weakened immune systems, as in the very young, the very old, and the infirm. The normal age distribution for flu mortality was completely reversed, and had the effect of gouging from society's infrastructure the bulk of those responsible for its day to day maintenance. No wonder people thought the social order was breaking down. It very nearly did."

NoCarrier,

I just wanted to thank and compliment you on knowing facts before posting. It really is a disservice when things are posted that are incorrect when the facutual information is readily available. We each can have our opinion about what might be, but history holds a key to what was. You obviously have done your homework. :applaud:
 

CountryboyinGA

Inactive
MorningSunn said:
I had the Hong Kong flu too ... I can never remember feeling sicker ... I thought I was going to die.


:rs:

That's what daddy said, too. He said even after he went back to work--a LONG time after 'getting better" he would have to sit down and rest after walking 50 yards.

CBinGA
 

patb

Deceased
I remember the Asian flu very well in 1957. I had a three year old and an eight month old. My husband was working out of town. All three of us left a home got so sick that we couldn't even get out of bed. My dear grandfather who lived nearby took care of us.

To top it all off, after we recovered, my employer insisted that all employees should have flu shots. Too late. I'd already had the stuff and, yes it was awful.

Patricia
 

TBonz

Veteran Member
I was 10 when the Hong Kong flu came around. Everyone around me had it. I lived in San Diego, and from what I remember, it and L.A. were hard hit.

I never got it. No idea why. My dad was in bed for 2 weeks. My sister slept 48 hours straight. Mom was sick but had to carry on. Brother and sister had milder cases.

My visiting grandparents were sick as dogs.

The schools were 2/3 empty.

I didn't even get a sniffle. I always wonder why.
 

fruit loop

Inactive
Partial Immunity

Depending on what virus the bird flu evolved from, some folks might have immunity.

A milder form of flu circulated the spring before the 1918 flu epidemic. It was noted that people who had had that flu were immune to the superflu.
 

kemosabe

Doooooooooom !
it would be VERY helpful if someone could dig up and find any articles or ANYTHING on any kind of symptoms to look for........... I think it very important to know these things to be prepared .. so if anyone can find anything plz post a new thread on symptoms..

I really think this is gonna get bad.. feels all too surreal ...kinda reminds me of that book/movie by Stephen King The Stand
:sht: :shkr:

thank you
 

Dixiegirl

Inactive
A Thought

NoCarrier said:
http://www.ninthday.com/spanish_flu.htm

"By the fall of 1918 a strain of influenza seemingly no different from that of previous years suddenly turned so deadly, and engendered such a state of panic and chaos in communities across the globe, that many people believed the world was coming to an end. It struck with amazing speed, often killing its victims within just hours of the first signs of infection. So fast did the 1918 strain overwhelm the body's natural defenses, that the usual cause of death in influenza patients---a secondary infection of lethal pneumonia---oftentimes never had a chance to establish itself. Instead, the virus caused an uncontrollable hemorrhaging that filled the lungs, and patients would drown in their own body fluids.

Not only was the Spanish Flu strikingly virulent, but it displayed an unusual preference in its choice of victims---tending to select young healthy adults over those with weakened immune systems, as in the very young, the very old, and the infirm. The normal age distribution for flu mortality was completely reversed, and had the effect of gouging from society's infrastructure the bulk of those responsible for its day to day maintenance. No wonder people thought the social order was breaking down. It very nearly did."

I was thinking that perhaps the reason "young healthy adults" died was that their stronger immune systems were more likely to overreact, causing the hemorrhaging. Perhaps the very young and the elderly had weaker immune systems that could not muster such a strong response to the Spanish Flu, and therefore, without the hemorraging, they were more likely to survive.

Just a thought.

Dixie girl
 
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MorningSunn

Rhea the Rogue
CountryboyinGA said:
That's what daddy said, too. He said even after he went back to work--a LONG time after 'getting better" he would have to sit down and rest after walking 50 yards.

CBinGA


Yep ... I had Mono after the birth of my first son and that was a walk in the park compared to Hong Kong flu ... I also ended up getting the Asian flu but it didn't hit me that hard ... The Hong Kong flu and the Asian flu are not the same ... I remember when I got the Asian flu my Mom getting upset and telling the Dr. I had already had the Hong Kong flu and he told her no I hadn't ... that they were not the same flu ... I swear if there is a cold out there I catch it ... :lol: ... I am hoping that having had the Hong Kong flu and the Asian flu maybe I have a little extra immunity for the bird flu ... One can always hope! Other wise with my record for getting colds I'm in trouble! :shk:


:rs:
 

Dusty Lady

Veteran Member
The very young still have somewhat immunity left over from birth (from the mom).

The eldery, the infirmed, well their systems are already in overdrive to fight off nasties, already in overdrive so to speak.

The young and healthy were hit because their systems were not in overdrive and had no left -over immunity from birth.
 

Dusty Lady

Veteran Member
Forgot to mention, I have had in the past several patients while working in Home Health who remembered in great detail the flu from the first WW.

The previously young and health ones, the ones in their "prime" went first, from secondary infections. Sanitation and hygiene was not like it is today, nor were their medications as advanced as ours are.

Fear is the killer here and a means of distraction from other issues pointed out in this thread.
 

MorningSunn

Rhea the Rogue
Symptoms in Humans

kemosabe said:
it would be VERY helpful if someone could dig up and find any articles or ANYTHING on any kind of symptoms to look for........... I think it very important to know these things to be prepared .. so if anyone can find anything plz post a new thread on symptoms..

I really think this is gonna get bad.. feels all too surreal ...kinda reminds me of that book/movie by Stephen King The Stand
:sht: :shkr:

thank you


Symptoms in Humans

Bird flu can cause a range of symptoms in humans. Some patients report fever, cough, sore throat and muscle aches. Others suffer from eye infections, pneumonia, acute respiratory distress and other severe and life-threatening complications.

With the Spanish Flu "a man could walk out of the house in the morning kissing his wife goodbye and be dead by that night" ... very fast killer.

Transmission

In rural areas, the H5N1 virus is easily spread from farm to farm among domestic poultry through the feces of wild birds. The virus can survive for up to four days at 71 F (22 C) and more than 30 days at 32 F (0 C). If frozen, it can survive indefinitely.

So far in this outbreak, human cases have been blamed on direct contact with infected chickens and their droppings. People who catch the virus from birds can pass it on to other humans, although the disease is generally milder in those who caught it from an infected person rather than from birds.

If the virus mutates and combines with a human influenza virus, it could be spread through person-to-person transmission in the same way the ordinary human flu virus is spread.

Of the 15 avian influenza virus subtypes, H5N1 is of particular concern for several reasons. H5N1 mutates rapidly and has a documented propensity to acquire genes from viruses infecting other animal species. Its ability to cause severe disease in humans has now been documented on two occasions. In addition, laboratory studies have demonstrated that isolates from this virus have a high pathogenicity and can cause severe disease in humans. Birds that survive infection excrete virus for at least 10 days, orally and in faeces, thus facilitating further spread at live poultry markets and by migratory birds.

The epidemic of highly pathogenic avian influenza caused by H5N1, which began in mid-December 2003 in the Republic of Korea and is now being seen in other Asian countries, is therefore of particular public health concern. H5N1 variants demonstrated a capacity to directly infect humans in 1997, and have done so again in Viet Nam in January 2004. The spread of infection in birds increases the opportunities for direct infection of humans. If more humans become infected over time, the likelihood also increases that humans, if concurrently infected with human and avian influenza strains, could serve as the “mixing vessel” for the emergence of a novel subtype with sufficient human genes to be easily transmitted from person to person. Such an event would mark the start of an influenza pandemic.

Influenza Pandemics: Can They Be Averted?

Based on historical patterns, influenza pandemics can be expected to occur, on average, three to four times each century when new virus subtypes emerge and are readily transmitted from person to person. However, the occurrence of influenza pandemics is unpredictable. In the 20th century, the great influenza pandemic of 1918–1919, which caused an estimated 40 to 50 million deaths worldwide, was followed by pandemics in 1957–1958 and 1968–1969.

Experts agree that another influenza pandemic is inevitable and possibly imminent.

Most influenza experts also agree that the prompt culling of Hong Kong’s entire poultry population in 1997 probably averted a pandemic.

Bird Flu Prevention

Rapid elimination of the H5N1 virus among infected birds and other animals is essential to preventing a major outbreak. The World Health Organization recommends that infected or exposed flocks of chickens and other birds be killed in order to help prevent further spread of the virus and reduce opportunities for human infection. However, the agency warns that safety measures must be taken to prevent exposure to the virus among workers involved in culling.

Treatment

Flu drugs exist that may be used both to prevent people from catching bird flu and to treat those who have it. The virus appears to be resistant to two older generic flu drugs, amantadine and rimantadine. However, the newer flu drugs Tamiflu and Relenza are expected to work – though supplies could run out quickly if an outbreak occurs.

Currently there is no vaccine, although scientists are working to develop one. It probably will take several months to complete and may not be ready in time to stop a widespread human outbreak, if one occurs.

History

The current outbreak of bird flu is different from earlier ones in that officials have been unable to contain its spread. An outbreak in 1997 in Hong Kong was the first time the virus had spread to people, but it was much more quickly contained. A total of 18 people were hospitalized with six reported deaths. About 1.5 million chickens were killed in an effort to remove the source of the virus.

Unlike the 1997 scare, this outbreak has spread more rapidly to other countries, increasing its exposure to people in varied locations and raising the likelihood that the strain will combine with a human influenza virus.

For Questions below ... click here

- What is avian influenza?
- What are the control measures in birds?
- What are the consequences of outbreaks in poultry?
- How do outbreaks of avian influenza spread within a country?
- How does the disease spread from one country to another?
- What is the present situation?
- Why so much concern about the current outbreaks?
- Is there evidence of human-to-human transmission now?
- Does human infection with H5N1 happen often?
- Are all of the currently reported outbreaks in birds equally dangerous for humans?
- Can a pandemic be averted?
- Is it reassuring that so few human cases have occurred?
- Are the right control measures being applied?
- Apart from H5N1, have other avian influenza viruses ever infected humans?
- Is there a vaccine effective against H5N1 in humans?
- Are there drugs available for prevention and treatment?
- Are presently available vaccines useful in averting an influenza pandemic?

Bird Flu

kemosabe said:
I really think this is gonna get bad.. feels all too surreal ...kinda reminds me of that book/movie by Stephen King The Stand

That was a great book ...

:rs:
 
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Tweakette

Irrelevant
But we are talking about a bird virus here. It's never been in humans before.

They are saying that 1918 was avian at it's start, which is why I wonder if the survivors of 1918 (or their descendants) may have some residual immunity. It would depend on how similiar (or not ) the viruses are.

Various bird flus have been around for a long time, but not everyone has been exposed to them.

Yes, the genome switches are a double-edged sword. They can create something that the immune system can recognize or they can make it easily transmissible without conferring immunity.
We won't know until the final version comes out.

I wish I could remember where I read it but there was one test where they found that people who have had previous flus did a better job of whacking the avian flu virus than those who did not. It was done in vitro, not in vivo, and I can't remember what they used - blood, probably. If I find it I'll post the link.
It gave me hope since I've had the flu every winter for the past 5 years, grrr....

Tweak
 

Tweakette

Irrelevant
The eldery, the infirmed, well their systems are already in overdrive to fight off nasties, already in overdrive so to speak.

Could also be that by the time you get old you're carrying a lifetime's worth of antibodies to everything you've been exposed to over the years.

Tweak
 
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