ECON The Fair Tax

Bicycle Junkie

Resident dissident and troll
Here's how to get rid of the federal income tax and payroll tax. Ideally a repeal of the 16th Amendment would go hand in hand with the Fair Tax (national sales tax):


How FAIRtax Works

Your Money, Your Decision

The current federal income tax system is clearly broken — unfair, overly complex, and almost impossible for most Americans to understand. But there is a reasonable, nonpartisan alternative before Congress that is both fair and easy to understand. A system that allows you to keep your whole paycheck and only pay taxes on what you spend.

The FairTax is a national sales tax that treats every person equally and allows American businesses to thrive, while generating the same tax revenue as the current four-million-word-plus tax code. Under the FairTax, every person living in the United States pays a sales tax on purchases of new goods and services, excluding necessities due to the prebate. The FairTax rate after necessities is 23% compared to combining the 15% income tax bracket with the 7.65% of employee payroll taxes under the current system -- both of which will be eliminated!

Important to note: the FairTax is the only tax plan currently being proposed that includes the removal of the payroll tax.

Keep Your Paycheck

For the first time in recent history, American workers will get to keep every dime they earn; including what would have been paid in federal income taxes and payroll taxes. You will get an instant raise in your pay!

Social Security & Medicare Funding

Benefits will not change. The FairTax actually puts these programs on a more solid funding foundation. Instead of being funded by taxes on workers’ wages, which is a small pool, they’ll be funded by taxes on overall consumption by all residents. Learn More .

Get a Tax Refund in Advance on Purchases of Basic Necessities

The FairTax provides a progressive program called a prebate. This gives every legal resident household an “advance refund” at the beginning of each month so that purchases made up to the poverty level are tax-free. The prebate prevents an unfair burden on low-income families. Learn more .

Pay Tax on Only What You Spend

Be in control of your financial destiny. You alone can control your tax burden. If you’re thrifty, you’ll pay lower taxes than somebody who is not. Most importantly, you’ll be taxed fairly. Learn more about what is taxed.

Everyone Pays Their Fair Share

Tax evasion and the underground economy cost each taxpayer an additional $2,500 every year! But by taxing new products and services consumed, the FairTax puts everyone in the country at the same level at the cash register. Further, only legal residents are eligible for the prebate. Learn more .

The IRS is No Longer Needed

No more complicated tax forms, individual audits, or intrusive federal bureaucracy. Retailers will collect the FairTax just as they do now with state sales taxes. All money will be collected and remitted to the U.S. Treasury, and both the retailers and states will be paid a fee for their collection service
 

Redleg

Veteran Member
How would this work for businesses. Have to make sure they don't find a way out of paying their share of taxes as well.
 

hiwall

Has No Life - Lives on TB
It would only be fair if there were NO tax-exempt entities. Otherwise all business owners/operators would run their personal purchases through their company so they pay no taxes. The rich would not pay while all the poor would pay.

The tax code would still be huge because businesses/companies/corporations would still have to pay "income taxes". The IRS would be alive and strong. Buying off Congressmen would still be alive and strong.
 

Troke

On TB every waking moment
As I see it , no deduction for charitable contributions so charities would take a hit.

A 23% across the board tax? What % of the populace pays 23% or higher now? If I understand this correctly, I think it a significant tax increase for a large number of people. And a big tax cut for a small number of people.
 

naegling62

Veteran Member
We've been down this road before Fair Tax, Flat Tax....the majority of voters don't care. The Republicans have blown the economic issues out of the water and Democrats never cared. We've got 4 years coming where nothing in the realm of fiscal responsibility will sell.

Post Corona world won't make any sense for quite sometime, the only economic models I see will be bits and pieces of National Socialism mixed with Communism. It's gonna be a strange time indeed.
 

West

Senior
First a fair tax, then another revolution back to the same system we had in the1850s and earlier.

:D
 

FaithfulSkeptic

Carrying the mantle of doubt
Never going to happen. Too many people in the work force are feeding at the trough of our tax system. Accountants, tax attorneys, H&R Block types, IRS personnel, the list goes on and on. They'd all be out of work.
 
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Border Collie Dad

Flat Earther
As I see it , no deduction for charitable contributions so charities would take a hit.

A 23% across the board tax? What % of the populace pays 23% or higher now? If I understand this correctly, I think it a significant tax increase for a large number of people. And a big tax cut for a small number of people.

The Fair tax replaces all taxes.
That includes excise taxes on gasoline and all those hidden taxes.

It's been a few years since I looked at it but, I seem to recall that the first , say, $36,000 was exempt.
 

LibertyInNH

Senior Member
Here's how to get rid of the federal income tax and payroll tax. Ideally a repeal of the 16th Amendment would go hand in hand with the Fair Tax (national sales tax):


How FAIRtax Works

Your Money, Your Decision

The current federal income tax system is clearly broken — unfair, overly complex, and almost impossible for most Americans to understand. But there is a reasonable, nonpartisan alternative before Congress that is both fair and easy to understand. A system that allows you to keep your whole paycheck and only pay taxes on what you spend.

The FairTax is a national sales tax that treats every person equally and allows American businesses to thrive, while generating the same tax revenue as the current four-million-word-plus tax code. Under the FairTax, every person living in the United States pays a sales tax on purchases of new goods and services, excluding necessities due to the prebate. The FairTax rate after necessities is 23% compared to combining the 15% income tax bracket with the 7.65% of employee payroll taxes under the current system -- both of which will be eliminated!

Important to note: the FairTax is the only tax plan currently being proposed that includes the removal of the payroll tax.

Keep Your Paycheck

For the first time in recent history, American workers will get to keep every dime they earn; including what would have been paid in federal income taxes and payroll taxes. You will get an instant raise in your pay!

Social Security & Medicare Funding

Benefits will not change. The FairTax actually puts these programs on a more solid funding foundation. Instead of being funded by taxes on workers’ wages, which is a small pool, they’ll be funded by taxes on overall consumption by all residents. Learn More .

Get a Tax Refund in Advance on Purchases of Basic Necessities

The FairTax provides a progressive program called a prebate. This gives every legal resident household an “advance refund” at the beginning of each month so that purchases made up to the poverty level are tax-free. The prebate prevents an unfair burden on low-income families. Learn more .

Pay Tax on Only What You Spend

Be in control of your financial destiny. You alone can control your tax burden. If you’re thrifty, you’ll pay lower taxes than somebody who is not. Most importantly, you’ll be taxed fairly. Learn more about what is taxed.

Everyone Pays Their Fair Share

Tax evasion and the underground economy cost each taxpayer an additional $2,500 every year! But by taxing new products and services consumed, the FairTax puts everyone in the country at the same level at the cash register. Further, only legal residents are eligible for the prebate. Learn more .

The IRS is No Longer Needed

No more complicated tax forms, individual audits, or intrusive federal bureaucracy. Retailers will collect the FairTax just as they do now with state sales taxes. All money will be collected and remitted to the U.S. Treasury, and both the retailers and states will be paid a fee for their collection service

How about NO NATIONAL SALES TAX, reduce the size of the fed.gov, and return to the founders' plan that the states directly fund a LIMITED amount of federal responsibilities?

What the OP (and the article) seem to endorse is a system where a thief decides to steal only $5 at a time instead of $10, and you're thankful for the service.
 

LoupGarou

Ancient Fuzzball
How about NO NATIONAL SALES TAX, reduce the size of the fed.gov, and return to the founders' plan that the states directly fund a LIMITED amount of federal responsibilities?

What the OP (and the article) seem to endorse is a system where a thief decides to steal only $5 at a time instead of $10, and you're thankful for the service.

Exactly! The only reason they were introducing the fair tax and flat tax ideas is because they wanted that on top of what they already had (to be fair).

Personally, I would like to see it become NO federal tax at all (business or personal) and go back to just tariffs on products in and out of the country for federal needs after removing ALL of the "gimmies" that they have now. Then have the states able to tax or not and that way if people didnt like the taxes on one state, they could move.

Loup
 

MountainBiker

Veteran Member
It would only be fair if there were NO tax-exempt entities. Otherwise all business owners/operators would run their personal purchases through their company so they pay no taxes. The rich would not pay while all the poor would pay.

The tax code would still be huge because businesses/companies/corporations would still have to pay "income taxes". The IRS would be alive and strong. Buying off Congressmen would still be alive and strong.
I agree on no exemptions. Clothing, food, buying houses or cars, healthcare, buying stocks, healthcare and services of all kinds pay the tax, including items you buy outside the US and bring into the US. If there weren't any exemptions, my guess is the rate would be in the single digits.
 

hiwall

Has No Life - Lives on TB
So this Fair Tax would include Social Security taxes too?
It has a snowball's chance in Hades of ever passing.
Same with a VAT tax.
Or Flat Tax.
 

FaithfulSkeptic

Carrying the mantle of doubt
How about NO NATIONAL SALES TAX, reduce the size of the fed.gov, and return to the founders' plan that the states directly fund a LIMITED amount of federal responsibilities?

What the OP (and the article) seem to endorse is a system where a thief decides to steal only $5 at a time instead of $10, and you're thankful for the service.
Again, there's too many people financially entrenched in the system. You can't just shut it down overnight. It would be like discovering cold fusion in your garage and then believing you'd solve all the worlds energy problems by giving it away.
 
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byronandkathy2003

Veteran Member
The FairTax is a national sales tax that treats every person equally no it does not it would screw the disabled that can barely get by on the $5.00 an hour disability check that they get..
the disabled do not get get minimum wage when prices go up the checks do not go up..
if the sales taxes were raised they would not be able to afford much if anything at all..
also it would be no better for those on soc sec as their checks don't go up with the prices either..

divide $803.00 / 160 regular working hours 40 per week and see what you get trust me $5.01 an hour does not buy much food after the bills are paid..
and you guys think fair tax is fair for every one think again..
i have always thought the gooberment dipping into the money you worked hard for is not fair and needs to fixed but this so called fair tax is not fair to every one at least not to the disabled and those on soc sec..
 

West

Senior
The Fair tax replaces all taxes.
That includes excise taxes on gasoline and all those hidden taxes.

It's been a few years since I looked at it but, I seem to recall that the first , say, $36,000 was exempt.

Just requoting your post because that's what I recall too. And for Kathy's post above.
 

MountainBiker

Veteran Member
The FairTax is a national sales tax that treats every person equally no it does not it would screw the disabled that can barely get by on the $5.00 an hour disability check that they get..
the disabled do not get get minimum wage when prices go up the checks do not go up..
if the sales taxes were raised they would not be able to afford much if anything at all..
also it would be no better for those on soc sec as their checks don't go up with the prices either..

divide $803.00 / 160 regular working hours 40 per week and see what you get trust me $5.01 an hour does not buy much food after the bills are paid..
and you guys think fair tax is fair for every one think again..
i have always thought the gooberment dipping into the money you worked hard for is not fair and needs to fixed but this so called fair tax is not fair to every one at least not to the disabled and those on soc sec..
There isn't any system of taxation that everyone would agree is fair. Human nature is such that we deem fair as being that which is advantageous to us. Any change in the tax code generates a set of winners and losers. This is why it is so hard to make changes. There is an army of highly paid lobbyists in DC fighting tooth and nail for and against any change that gets proposed.

The issue of whether disability income is adequate is a separate issue, same as what the minimum wage should be, what level unemployment benefits are set at and for how long, who qualifies for subsidized housing, childcare, healthcare, student aid and so forth.

The reality is a flat tax has zero % chance of ever happening. Too many people make a lot of money keeping the system complex and full of loopholes that mostly benefit to 1%. This is a theoretical discussion at best.
 

Doat

Veteran Member
You loose the fact that the U.S. Government needs your money to support or bribe (national interest?) the rest of the world.
 

byronandkathy2003

Veteran Member
now i got too thinking if those on disability and soc sec were exempt or had to pay say 6 cents on the dollar for taxes might be better..
every one else 20 cents on the dollar would be more toward being fair for everyone ..
 

Troke

On TB every waking moment
The Fair tax replaces all taxes.
That includes excise taxes on gasoline and all those hidden taxes.

It's been a few years since I looked at it but, I seem to recall that the first , say, $36,000 was exempt.
How do you exempt the first $36000? Sounds like a tax form needed and thus the IRA needed and................
 

West

Senior
How do you exempt the first $36000? Sounds like a tax form needed and thus the IRA needed and................

Muse a new number could be issued, like the current tax exemption for farmers etc.. like we all ready have today.
 

Jackpine Savage

Veteran Member
One argument against it is that it is invisible. Makes it easy to gradually raise and spend even more. Of course these days they don't have to actually have money to spend it, so it probably doesn't matter.
 

20Gauge

TB Fanatic
Never going to happen. Too many people in the work force are feeding at the trough of our tax system. Accountants, tax attorneys, H&R Block types, IRS personnel, the list goes on and on. They'd all be out of work.
add to that the unending hunger of government for more funds.......

yeah it will never go away.

They will only add more types of "fees" and "taxes" to increase their revenue.
 

hiwall

Has No Life - Lives on TB
The FedGov, with MMT as touted and apparently adopted, has no need of taxes. None. Fair, flat or otherwise.

Put up or shut up, politicians.
The income taxes paid by the general population means less and less all the time because our gov spending has exploded so much. The gov could easily raise the fed income tax exemption to around $100,000 and doing so would ease the tax burden on the poorer folks while not making much difference to the gov overall.
The days are numbered for the once great USA. Because of this I am in favor of UBI for the masses with a warning to spend it wisely with an eye to the future.
 

WalknTrot

Veteran Member
Yeah....riiiiiiiight. You'll end up with a Federal sales tax (VAT) PLUS an income tax. They will never repeal the income tax. Will just add another one.

I end up buying a few fairly pricey items from Britain every year over the internet and always get to see what those poor schmucks have to pay in VAT. NO thanks.
 

WildDaisy

God has a plan, Trust it!
I like the idea of it being tied to purchases, not employment. I like the fact that it catches illegals and they have to pay taxes and wont get away with sending all their tax free money and items home. Things wont be as cheap for them.

However, knowing how government never takes a simple thing and does it right, this will be abused heavily.

The only way this country is going to change is if it outright burns and has to be rebuilt from the ashes, and from the looks of current events, it is heading that way.
 

Border Collie Dad

Flat Earther
How do you exempt the first $36000? Sounds like a tax form needed and thus the IRA needed and................

I don't think they claim there are no filing requirements.
Just that you could file on a postcard.

Of course these days they don't have to actually have money to spend it, so it probably doesn't matter.
I've seen it said the government doesn't need out taxes to function since we have the printing press.
The tax is there for control
 
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