HEALTH Spirit of Etsy: Crush Healthy Products As Illegal Drugs

Images and hyperlinks at: http://www.nonaiswa.org/wordpress/?p=9206

By

Celeste Bishop​

Two grandmothers, Pat Showalter and Celeste Bishop, are square in the middle of the war against pure beauty and health products as a result of their website being on the Goliath Internet venue Etsy, an online Farmer’s Market.The Etsy Policy Update dragnet is sweeping up numerous small shops such as theirs. According to Fortune Magazine the Etsy giant sold $62.8 million worth goods in March 2012, up 41.5% from the same time last year, from handcrafted artisan’s advertising on their venue. Etsy’s new policy was dropped like an e-bomb from the Etsy Integrity Department, with no notification that is was coming, though it had been in the works for months, and likens Pat and Celeste’s company, Shepherds Heart, to criminals trafficking in illegal drugs by making “illegal drug claims about their products”. When Etsy contacted Shepherds Heart on August 9, 2012 they were told that the email was “a private conversation between you and Etsy. Please respect this confidentiality and refrain from distributing this communication without permission from Etsy.” Their plea for 'confidentiality' was nothing more than an ill-fated attempt to discourage vendors from comparing notes. There are other troubling changes in Etsy’s policy such as their “Snitch Program” where others are encouraged to turn in non-complaint vendors and “ Flagging” which Etsy claims is “akin to neighborhood watch” but is more like the “Report Suspicious Activity” in the Patriot Act with dozens of cadres formed to rat on one another. Another disturbing indicator is that no date for compliance was given to vendors but upon further communication a deadline of 7 days was demanded. Bishop says, “This comes at our busiest time of year when we are at Farmers Markets and Festivals, not to mention visitors and vacations, kidding season and preparing our farms for harvest. We pleaded for an extension to Etsy's compliance date to no avail," remarks Pat. When Celeste and Pat went to review Etsy’s new policies they found that they were updated and implemented on August 8, a mere day before vendor dragnet, with demand to comply. Most vendors find the new policy extremely vague and subjective. Dropping this new policy on Shepherd’s Heart and other vendors the way Etsy did has thrown many into a state of confusion which Etsy almost seems to be encouraging.

Fifteen years ago two Pat and Celeste met. Inspired by the gentle Kinder goat, desiring to serve the community, share the fruits of traditional farming, and noting that pure beauty and health products with real ingredients were disappearing from stores shelves, they founded Shepherd’s Heart. Shepherds Heart has built their company on the pillars of pure products without ingredients whose names one cannot pronounce, continuing education for themselves and for their clientele to bring them the highest quality products on the market. They maintain an agricultural awareness website which includes lobbying on small farm issues. They create beauty and bath items produced within the highest traditional moral and ethical standards, and “truth in labeling.” According to Pat, “We provide our clientèle with all the information that they need, including scientific peer-reviews, so that they can make educated decisions on what they will put on their skin, the largest organ on their body, and into their bodies. We feel they deserve that information.” It is ironic that in Etsy's policy statement their # 1 rule in regard to posting is that it not be "false, inaccurate or misleading". By not telling the public about the historical/traditional benefits of the ingredients in Shepherd's Heart products, the company would be violating Etsy's policy and deceiving Shepherd's Heart clientèle.

Consumer’s were delighted when Shepherds Heart opened for business bringing them over 400 wholesome products made from pure ingredients like raw goat milk, virgin olive oil, coconut oil, palm oil. Shepherds Heart health artisans then add high quality essential oils which historically have treated various afflictions, clays for color and to draw out toxins (including radiation), and accents of herbs and florals grown in our own pesticide-free gardens, or wild-craft gathered flora, which add beauty as well as healing. “When our original webmaster was unable to handle our volume we sought out another venue for our extensive line of products which includes handcrafted goat milk soaps, Castile soaps, creams, lotions, lip balms, and other bath products.” “Demanding that our company cease from sharing the goodness of natural healing is the crime. How will we teach the next generation the healing arts if we are forbidden from sharing what ingredients have traditionally and historically been able to accomplish?” asks Celeste. We believe that our customers are perfectly capable of analyzing the information presented and making decisions for themselves.

When Shepherd’s Heart was contacted by Etsy’s ‘Integrity’ Department they claimed, “That one or more items in your shop appear to make medical drug claims.” Such claims link a product to the cure or treatment of a health condition or disease. Medical drug claims are prohibited on Etsy. We require that you remove these claims from the presentation of you shop listings.” Etsy continues, “Please note that this includes any historical references to medical drug uses for a given item, even if such claims are no longer widely believed. Furthermore, the presence of a disclaimer that the item is not FDA approved, will not make a medical drug claim meet our criteria. By agreeing to Etsy's policies, our sellers agree to follow all applicable laws related to their items and the use of our services.” Etsy reserves the right to change their policy anytime so this is another case of a living document that continually evolves and the average person never knows what the law really is. What is really annoying is that vendors have to pay whatever they do. Etsy clarified their policy from: “Drugs, medical drug claims about an item, drug paraphernalia: We have clarified the previous language from “drug-like substances” to now be “medical drug claims about an item.” When asked what laws or regulations Shepherd's Heart was in violation of Etsy has remained silent. We are on the edge of a precipice states Pat. "We need to take a stand now against this continuing nonsense."

Not only were Pat and Celeste shocked and horrified but countless other vendors were also negatively impacted and are irritated that they must click their heels to Etsy’s new policy or the door will close on this venue for them. For Shepherd’s Heart and others this means the loss of countless hours of creating their own unique websites and a disruption in sales and business as they find other venues for their products. The Internet is a buzz about the new Esty scheme.


Etsy admits on their blog that, “In many cases, items on the prohibited list may be subject to complex legal regulations or restrictions that vary greatly by location. But beyond that, when it comes right down to it, some things just aren’t in the spirit of Etsy. While we understand that it is possible for certain items to be carefully and legally bought and sold, Etsy is just not the right venue for them.”

Where do we go from here? Within each of us there is immense power to stand firm on principles of true integrity, honesty, and what we know to be morally and ethically right. Shepherds Heart refuses to comply with a system that attempts to crush those who bring the healing arts and quality products to consumers. Pat and Celeste say, "We will take our product to other venues that support the integration of therapeutic ingredients into beauty products. We also want to reassure the public that these two grandmothers are certainly not engaged in the illegal drug trade." The day may come when the FDA does make it a crime to sell healing beauty products but we can be thankful that we are not there yet. But in order to maintain our freedom of choice, we all need to get involved - farmer and consumer - united. Hand in hand we can, and we will, make a positive impact for our health.
 

skwentnaflyer

Veteran Member
What I'm wondering is why they would limit such a huge portion of sellers---just go browse the soaps and you'll see what I mean.
That's a lot of revenue, so it makes me think there's something more going on.
 

skwentnaflyer

Veteran Member
Resellers and factories have always been a problem and most folks are more than happy to hit that report button. This is not a new program by any means.

" Shepherds Heart refuses to comply with a system that attempts to crush those who bring the healing arts and quality products to consumers."
I suspect they'll have to refuse to comply on their own platform then, as Etsy is a venue and can certainly stipulate what can be sold there.....imagine the positions reversed?
 
This is the second 'contact' we have received. The first was an essential oil supplier who demanded, yes demanded not requested, that we not use their name in association with their product.

I saw an article yesterday that Google has ceased bringing up supplement searches.

My own hunch is with Obamacare coming and people will be turning to alternatives that the powers that be are closing that loop to depopulate. If people do not have alternative medicine and products and can't get Western medicine treatment many will die.

From the trenches,
Celeste
 

Wise Owl

Deceased
Find another web host soon or they may take your whole site down and you would lose all your work.

I had to do that with our's a few years ago only for different reasons. The host changed their website building program and our site was messed up big time. The new software was nothing like what they had to begin with and so I had to look elsewhere and rebuild it. Luckily I had kept copies of all the pages that we had up. Around 35 of them. I looked around and found a host that used the same software, in fact they were the developers of it. They ended up being cheaper to use and after a month's worth of work we were find.
The key to it all is your domain name and owning it. You can then put it anywhere on the net that you find that suits you. If you used your own website building software and just uploaded to the net, it would be even easier.

Good luck. I know a lot of companies who deal in natural products are going thru this right now altho I believe it is the FDA doing it. Not allowed to make health claims anymore and probably Etsy got warned by them and threatened.
 

Kathy in FL

Administrator
_______________
Nope, what you have is a reaction to threatened law suits. Not by the feds but by private lawyers looking to make a buck off people that are violating existing laws. Etsy is protecting itself from such lawsuits, probably at the insistence of their own lawyers and insurance carrier.

With the economy so bad we've actually had to add more insurance as people are intentionally out there looking to make a buck off of any little "mistake" someone makes and they'll use fraud to do it. We legally evicted someone but they tried to take us to court over the loss of their belongings. We've been in the business long enough that we know how to CYA big time. We video their belongings being taken out of the unit and being placed at the edge of the property line which is per Florida landlord/tenant law. We video tape that every room, closet, and cabinet is empty and that the locks are changed. We document all existing damage that we have to make claim for using what is called a SODA, again per Florida law.

Turns out after a little investigating this chick had already done this two other times in two other states. She'd just never dealt with anyone as thorough as hubby when it comes to the eviction process. We have never lost a case in 16 years, even those that go to court, and we document like a son of a gun. Mizz Thang actually was arrested on the judge's order as soon as her case against us was thrown out.

When you are in business and it is your butt on the line you do what you gotta and gauranteed that not everyone is going to like it. While I have some compassion for the etsy vendors, I can also see etsy's side of things. They are the deep pockets that people are going to go after in a law suit.
 

Limner

Deceased
"Spirit of Etsy." Bull hockey.

My shop is not active, but I've liked Etsy until now. Not so much, this minute. I went there to escape the tyrany of Ebay. Looks like the disease is spreading.
 
Find another web host soon or they may take your whole site down and you would lose all your work.

I had to do that with our's a few years ago only for different reasons. .


We extracted all our data last week. Ultimately the battle belongs to the Lord. He also will be the One who protects us when all is contaminated out there.

From the trenches of peach canning today,
Celeste
 

ainitfunny

Saved, to glorify God.
What they idiotically propose to claim is that NOTHING can benefit your health EXCEPT man made "medicines" from big corporate pharmeceutical companies, prescribed by licensed doctors.
 

Dex

Constitutional Patriot
My wife has already migrated her's off of Etsy but she still uses them until we can get enough traffic to her domain. Their prices are too high anyway, about 20% of her monthly revenue is going to them which is way too much. You can't put health claims on any product that isn't FDA approved. You can only put recommended uses and you still have to disclaim the fact that they are not FDA approved claims. This goes for ANY product, not just handmade Etsy products.
 
My wife has already migrated her's off of Etsy but she still uses them until we can get enough traffic to her domain. Their prices are too high anyway, about 20% of her monthly revenue is going to them which is way too much. You can't put health claims on any product that isn't FDA approved. You can only put recommended uses and you still have to disclaim the fact that they are not FDA approved claims. This goes for ANY product, not just handmade Etsy products.

Who did you go with?

Celeste
 

kittyknits

Veteran Member
Natural products and food are really gaining ground lately. TPTB seem to be hitting them around the edges with propaganda hit pieces (like the "egg study") and things like this. I wonder when they will make the big move. I've read that the FDA has the regs. in place to hit supplement companies hard.
 

Dex

Constitutional Patriot
Don't remember but it was one that she can do both hosting and ecommerce for like $30 a month, all web based mgmt, etc. No shell access to my dismay.
 

night driver

ESFP adrift in INTJ sea
Remember that the LAW happens to say that if you are claiming your product is a treatment for"xxx" then you need to be able to cite FDA approval for that "xxx" condition.

Ask the folk at Herbal Healer .....

It really won't matter WHERE you advertise, eventually.


Why do you think that sumerthyme, goatlady, herbmountain, and I say what we say in terms of "If it were me, I'd...." or things like that??? It's how the law works....

Now if you want to quote Commission E, in your reccommendations that is a different story, as then you are quoting the German Government research... but it best be a quote.
 
Natural products and food are really gaining ground lately. TPTB seem to be hitting them around the edges with propaganda hit pieces (like the "egg study") and things like this. I wonder when they will make the big move. I've read that the FDA has the regs. in place to hit supplement companies hard.

The egg study is part of a UN agenda. For a couple years they have been targeting raw milk and eggs, basically cheap protein.

It isn't the FDA itself it is implementation of Codex Alementarius through various agencies.

It is going to be an interesting few years.

Blessings,
Celeste
 
Actually in beauty products there is a loophole regarding claims. For instance where do you draw the line? Cream, soap? Or, various ingredients or down to the atomic level?

Back in 1980 I watched as the UN began patented all the constituents in all life for instance magnesium in bananas. So I could foresee the day when you could not eat food because it is patented. We need to oppose this.

From the trenches,
Celeste
 

skwentnaflyer

Veteran Member
Ahhh, I did not realize that this happened to the OP. I apologize, I would have worded my comments a little better, and I'm sorry it's affected your business.
 

almost ready

Inactive
So where do we find the best internet platform with many users and low costs?

If Etsy and Ebay are both awful. I am just going blind wtih Ebay - they have changed the software too many times and ruined the "My Ebay" area until it's just useless. You only "think" you know how to do things, and where to look for what. I keep leaving and going back cause it's what I once knew.

Is Etsy still better than Ebay? Anything in the USA is going to be fascist "can't do that here" in every respect -- still people will do business.

If there is another platform that is better and more useful, I'm all for doing the work to move.

Just want to add, sorry about your extreme discomfort, Davidinthewilderness. This is awful, but part of a bigger pattern that has set up over our dear country until we can't do anything without breaking some law or other.

There was case not too long ago where the FDA came down on a cherry juice product which repeated the exact results that were found in a US federal government study. It has NOTHING to do with whether you are truthful or not.
 

Ben Sunday

Deceased
Remember that the LAW happens to say that if you are claiming your product is a treatment for"xxx" then you need to be able to cite FDA approval for that "xxx" condition.

Ask the folk at Herbal Healer .....

It really won't matter WHERE you advertise, eventually.


Why do you think that sumerthyme, goatlady, herbmountain, and I say what we say in terms of "If it were me, I'd...." or things like that??? It's how the law works....

Now if you want to quote Commission E, in your reccommendations that is a different story, as then you are quoting the German Government research... but it best be a quote.

^^^ THIS ^^^

The most seemingly innocuous label claim regarding health has been an issue for a while.

Unfortunately, we all have to keep the lawyers and bureaucrats happy.

As time goes on, I would not expect the situation to improve, imho.
 

Kathy in FL

Administrator
_______________
When you depend on other people and other businesses by association you have to comform to the same rules that they have to conform to.

If your business is that great then set up your own site and your own financial workings/exchange system. Get rid of the middle man as well as the rules that they drag along with them.
 

night driver

ESFP adrift in INTJ sea
I didn't say anything on truthfulness. I said if they weren't FDA approved for that specific condition then you can't claim efficacy.

Suques but these are the rules everyone else gets to play by so you need to also.

Even bigger places like Herbal Healer get dinged ... and sometimes for LOTS of money.... enough to be put out of biz...

Last I checked Mariah was doing OK, but she was running within the rules NOW too.
 
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