WTF?!? Silver down over 10%!
- Thread starter mbabulldog
- Start date
ivantherussian03
Veteran Member
is capitolism pure and simple. This is normal market behavior; I'd be more concerned if it went up every day. Consider it a buying opportunity, or a discount sale.
My opinion
When silver hit $50 I believe alot of people did a quick sell off (quick profit taking). I also noticed that after falling to something like $46 on the sell off, it began climbing back pretty quickly so I expect that it will recover the $50 mark and then start to go higher (especially if Congress starts playing games with the debt ceiling). YMMV.
When silver hit $50 I believe alot of people did a quick sell off (quick profit taking). I also noticed that after falling to something like $46 on the sell off, it began climbing back pretty quickly so I expect that it will recover the $50 mark and then start to go higher (especially if Congress starts playing games with the debt ceiling). YMMV.
mbabulldog
Inactive
I more believe JPM has their fingers in the mix than pure market forces; the $ is still weak, and falling even as I type. Nothing has changed with our Budget process, and the world is still an ugly place.
Weird...
I know one thing for sure; if silver gets back into the mid $30's, I'm backing up the truck...
Weird...
I know one thing for sure; if silver gets back into the mid $30's, I'm backing up the truck...
Agreed.
Hfcomms
EN66iq
The spot price quoted doesn't change the fundamentals or the value of the US dollar. Wild price swings both up and down are going to be 'normal' in the days ahead. But when silver swings up the next time around I think it's going to be able to put in a support level and hold $50 this time.
Hacker
Computer Hacking Pirate
I do not know if they sold shorts into the market; but I am guessing that they did.
Selling shorts will drive down the price and has the effect of shaking out the weak (i.e., leveraged) hands - allowing JPM to cover their shorts at a lower price.
Of course, it also has the effect of propping up the dollar - which is their main objective.
Selling shorts will drive down the price and has the effect of shaking out the weak (i.e., leveraged) hands - allowing JPM to cover their shorts at a lower price.
Of course, it also has the effect of propping up the dollar - which is their main objective.
Ice Guy
Inactive
Good Luck finding any. Tulving is sold out of American Eagles. Canadian Maples are low and will be sold out soon. Ampex is asking crazy premiums on the few items left in stock. Price does not matter when there is none to be had. EBay prices barely dipped so far.
By Friday Silver will be back above $46. Buy if you find any.
By Friday Silver will be back above $46. Buy if you find any.
dstraito
TB Fanatic
Shorts was my thought as well.
almost ready
Inactive
Silver, even paper contracts, made a new all-time high last week. Not a surprise. Coins were trading at over 60 an oz (Morgans and Peace dollars).
A little correction will be welcome.
AR
A little correction will be welcome.
AR
Rastech
Veteran Member
Hacker: "Of course, it also has the effect of propping up the dollar - which is their main objective".
This is complete conjecture on my part, but I have more than a suspicion that isn't the case.
I think 'they' are doing their utmost to ensure that foreign Nations can pay their dollar denominated debt (of which, there is a heck of a lot around the World - for example, the 'easily accounted' debt that France and Germany owe America, is around $3 trillion, and it's denominated in dollars and has to be paid in dollars).
It's like the position the Swiss are in, due to so many mortgages in Eastern Europe being denominated in Swiss francs.
So much money has been pouring into Switzerland, that it's been pushing up the value of the Swiss franc.
So Switzerland has been bulk buying euros, in an effort to stop the franc from appreciating.
Because if that appreciation of the franc happens, all those people in Eastern Europe with mortgages to be paid in Swiss francs, won't be able to make any payments any more.
Then Switzerland goes BOOM!
{eta: I suspect Switzerland doing this, is the only reason the euro is still in existence at the moment - if the euro goes away, people in the eurozone with mortgages in Swiss francs, won't be able to pay either, so Switzerland still goes BOOM! - talk about Switzerland being stuck between a rock and a hard place . . . }.
I think America is very much in the same situation, tbh, and there are nowhere near enough dollars available to go around (and there won't ever be, I strongly suspect).
Bear in mind, this is conjecture. I have been thinking a lot about this possibility for a while now, and I think the potential dangers when/if a dollar quantity shortage really hits, could be somewhat dire.
It's certainly food for thought.
This is complete conjecture on my part, but I have more than a suspicion that isn't the case.
I think 'they' are doing their utmost to ensure that foreign Nations can pay their dollar denominated debt (of which, there is a heck of a lot around the World - for example, the 'easily accounted' debt that France and Germany owe America, is around $3 trillion, and it's denominated in dollars and has to be paid in dollars).
It's like the position the Swiss are in, due to so many mortgages in Eastern Europe being denominated in Swiss francs.
So much money has been pouring into Switzerland, that it's been pushing up the value of the Swiss franc.
So Switzerland has been bulk buying euros, in an effort to stop the franc from appreciating.
Because if that appreciation of the franc happens, all those people in Eastern Europe with mortgages to be paid in Swiss francs, won't be able to make any payments any more.
Then Switzerland goes BOOM!
{eta: I suspect Switzerland doing this, is the only reason the euro is still in existence at the moment - if the euro goes away, people in the eurozone with mortgages in Swiss francs, won't be able to pay either, so Switzerland still goes BOOM! - talk about Switzerland being stuck between a rock and a hard place . . . }.
I think America is very much in the same situation, tbh, and there are nowhere near enough dollars available to go around (and there won't ever be, I strongly suspect).
Bear in mind, this is conjecture. I have been thinking a lot about this possibility for a while now, and I think the potential dangers when/if a dollar quantity shortage really hits, could be somewhat dire.
It's certainly food for thought.
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mbabulldog
Inactive
imaginative
keep your eye on the ball
Indeed
We will be seeing wild gyrations as the dollar is convulsing. I have a half of a gabillion ozs and when I opened Kitco I had to laugh. If I was long in the silver futures market- I might have considered jumping. If I had silver call options my ice cube would have melted. But holding the physical- this is of no concern unless I was planning on selling this week
Silver couldnt decidedly break thru $49.50 this past week and was a sell (or profit taking) signal. She definitely has support around $42.50. Once we break $50- and we will- I really expect to see her soar.
The central bank fiat moneymasters are getting ulcers with this 'silver liberation army' that is accumulating all the physical silver that they can. Thirty years ago we had 2 brothers nearly corner the silver market; today we have tens of thousands of middle-class folks protecting their wealth, the Chinese, the Indians, the Russians and folks from everywhere else in this globe- united via the web and fighting together to throw the fiat bankers and their wealth stealing schemes into the trash bin of history. We will win.
Jeff Allen
Producer
An aquantence of mine just purchased a hundred ounces from a good friend for $50 this afternoon. Both were happy...and even the seller thinks silver will go higher, much higher....but wants to trade out of silver and into land he has his eye on.
I still say, in thirty years when I'm hoping to retire an ounce of silver will be worth between one and six weeks wages for the average guy...not the two or so hours wages it is now.
IF we actually run out in 12 years like some say...this could easily happen.
J
I still say, in thirty years when I'm hoping to retire an ounce of silver will be worth between one and six weeks wages for the average guy...not the two or so hours wages it is now.
IF we actually run out in 12 years like some say...this could easily happen.
J
Scotto
Set Apart
TPTB are milking it out of the hands of the common people is all. It's been manipulated and out of the gold ratio for so long, it's proceeding just as planned. Think of the fake gold bars, someone is sucking all of the gold out and putting it somewhere, TPTB are most likely moving it out of the US before the whole house of cards falls.
It hit damn near $50 per oz., so they create a dip so some of the people holding it think "Hell we better cash it in and make some good $$ before it goes waaay down again." So it has to dip to prompt them to sell. So watch it shoot up even higher now, then it will happen again. Maybe hit $65-$70 or so, then slide back to $60 for a bit and start a 'rumor' saying it could go back down to $25, and watch the people run to sell it. Then they'll have most of the silver that the people who are hard up for cash are holding, they'll have to unload it to pay their bills and buy the expensive groceries and gas. Then it may really spike to get wealthier people to sell, then when the whole thing crumbles, TPTB are the main ones holding PM's and they are king.
It hit damn near $50 per oz., so they create a dip so some of the people holding it think "Hell we better cash it in and make some good $$ before it goes waaay down again." So it has to dip to prompt them to sell. So watch it shoot up even higher now, then it will happen again. Maybe hit $65-$70 or so, then slide back to $60 for a bit and start a 'rumor' saying it could go back down to $25, and watch the people run to sell it. Then they'll have most of the silver that the people who are hard up for cash are holding, they'll have to unload it to pay their bills and buy the expensive groceries and gas. Then it may really spike to get wealthier people to sell, then when the whole thing crumbles, TPTB are the main ones holding PM's and they are king.
The down movement and consolidation is an extra ordinary good sign for silver. For it to continue up in a parabolic raise as Jim Rodgers said, 'would force me to re think and perhaps start selling.' Because all parabolic rises end in a bust. This downward movement and consolidation is just a fine movement...and for myself, if it continues dropping, I would be in clover buying as much as I could afford.
As it is...it has not hit my last buy in price...still two or three bucks above it. This is the advantage of owning physical bullion no sweating the small stuff. If it could drop another $20 or so...I would sell my car, hold yard sales, rent out my wife...whatever to buy it, because silver is without question the bull of the decade...and it will not stop long in a downward direction.
"Its too the Moon, Alice" Ralph Cramdan. The Honey Mooners.
As it is...it has not hit my last buy in price...still two or three bucks above it. This is the advantage of owning physical bullion no sweating the small stuff. If it could drop another $20 or so...I would sell my car, hold yard sales, rent out my wife...whatever to buy it, because silver is without question the bull of the decade...and it will not stop long in a downward direction.
"Its too the Moon, Alice" Ralph Cramdan. The Honey Mooners.
Shock Wave Rider
Inactive
Silver Margins Raised 75%
naw I don't think so
#1 look at that chart somebody dumped a whole load all at once that is not normal market behavior.
#2 I betcha minimal, if any, amount of will be available to buyer, that say that at every dip and the shelves are often bare. Look at the recent offers of sellers to buy back from their customer.
The bounce back is telling if it holds.
mbabulldog
Inactive
ugh, double post, sorry
mbabulldog
Inactive
Do you have verification of this?
imaginative
keep your eye on the ball
2 times last week. IMO, this puts silver in much stronger hands and is certainly indicative at just how powerful this 'Silver Liberation Army' really is
* APRIL 28, 2011, 5:49 P.M. ET
CME Increases Trading Margins Amid Silver's Volatile Ride
By Tatyana Shumsky
Of DOW JONES NEWSWIRES
NEW YORK (Dow Jones)--Exchange operator CME Group Inc. (CME) raised margins for Comex silver futures for the second time this week as silver prices soar amid much volatility.
The higher margins take effect at the close of trading Friday, the exchange said. The CME revises its margin requirements as a normal course of business, and has previously raised bond requirements during times of high volatility to guard traders against additional risk. The operator owns New York Mercantile Exchange, which trades silver on its Comex division.
For speculators in the benchmark 5,000-ounce silver futures contract, the exchange is raising initial margin requirements, or the deposit required to purchase a contract, to $14,513 per contract, up from $12,825. Maintenance margin requirements, or the additional capital needed to keep the contract overnight, will increase to $10,750, from $9,500.
For hedgers and exchange members, both the initial and maintenance margin requirements will also increase to $10,750 from $9,500 per contract.
CME also raised margins for the Comex silver trade at settle contracts, which allow traders to lock in the day's settlement price for their purchases or sales.
Additionally, the exchange raised initial and maintenance margins for Comex Miny silver futures and the E-Mini silver futures contracts.
Thursday's increase follows a similar margin increase Monday, and comes during the astonishing volatility in silver prices. Silver posted another huge price swing Thursday, with the front-month contract rising 3.4% to a record settlement of $47.520 a troy ounce. Investors have been flocking to this relatively small market to take advantage of the metal's much lower price than that of gold, which is sky high.
-By Tatyana Shumsky, Dow Jones Newswires; 212-416-3095; tatyana.shumsky@dowjones.com
http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20110428-726362.html
* APRIL 28, 2011, 5:49 P.M. ET
CME Increases Trading Margins Amid Silver's Volatile Ride
By Tatyana Shumsky
Of DOW JONES NEWSWIRES
NEW YORK (Dow Jones)--Exchange operator CME Group Inc. (CME) raised margins for Comex silver futures for the second time this week as silver prices soar amid much volatility.
The higher margins take effect at the close of trading Friday, the exchange said. The CME revises its margin requirements as a normal course of business, and has previously raised bond requirements during times of high volatility to guard traders against additional risk. The operator owns New York Mercantile Exchange, which trades silver on its Comex division.
For speculators in the benchmark 5,000-ounce silver futures contract, the exchange is raising initial margin requirements, or the deposit required to purchase a contract, to $14,513 per contract, up from $12,825. Maintenance margin requirements, or the additional capital needed to keep the contract overnight, will increase to $10,750, from $9,500.
For hedgers and exchange members, both the initial and maintenance margin requirements will also increase to $10,750 from $9,500 per contract.
CME also raised margins for the Comex silver trade at settle contracts, which allow traders to lock in the day's settlement price for their purchases or sales.
Additionally, the exchange raised initial and maintenance margins for Comex Miny silver futures and the E-Mini silver futures contracts.
Thursday's increase follows a similar margin increase Monday, and comes during the astonishing volatility in silver prices. Silver posted another huge price swing Thursday, with the front-month contract rising 3.4% to a record settlement of $47.520 a troy ounce. Investors have been flocking to this relatively small market to take advantage of the metal's much lower price than that of gold, which is sky high.
-By Tatyana Shumsky, Dow Jones Newswires; 212-416-3095; tatyana.shumsky@dowjones.com
http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20110428-726362.html
mbabulldog
Inactive
ok, that explains a lot, thanks!
just some selling to cover margin calls. We'll probably see it go even lower once NY opens in the morning, but that's to be expected.
My only wish is that they would start calling on JPM to cover their shorts, then life would get interesting!
just some selling to cover margin calls. We'll probably see it go even lower once NY opens in the morning, but that's to be expected.
My only wish is that they would start calling on JPM to cover their shorts, then life would get interesting!
http://www.cnbc.com/id/42828370
In what could be a precursor to much higher margins at the Chicago Mercantile Exchange, MF Global on Friday raised its margins on one contract of silver from $14,513 to $25,397, an increase of 75 percent.
The purpose of increasing margins would be to keep both long and short investors from adding to positions in what has become an increasingly volatile market.
CME has already raised margins on silver futures twice in the past week alone. CME spokesman Chris Grams said any further increase in margins depends on volatilty.
"We are monitoring all our products. These decisions are based on volatility, it will depend on the markets," Grams said.
MF Global has not yet responded to a request for comment. MF Global is both a member of the Nymex and a ring dealing member of the London Metal Exchange. The company operates as a market maker and broker in metals futures, options, and over-the-counter swap products.
Great Northwet
Veteran Member
I could respond to a dozen posters on this thread, but I'll just keep it simple. Moggy; I'll see your $75, and raise you $5 more(year end). LOL!
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/mo...livian-nationalization-halt-combine-perfect-w
More On The Silver Dive: "Massive Sell Orders" Coupled With Bolivian Nationalization Halt Combine For Perfect Weak Hand Shakeout Storm
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 05/01/2011 21:37 -0400
Two key factors that appear to be contributing to the rapid move in overnight silver (and subsequent jump to pare half its losses) is i) the fact that Bolivia, despite being in a cash crunch has for the time being yielded to miner demands and has put its nationalization plans (as discussed previously here) on hold, and ii) there has been a dramatic bout of selling coming out of nowhere, despite the PM complex having opened very well bid earlier on, in what appears a coordinate effort to nuke silver exclusively.
From the WSJ: "Opposition from Bolivia's independently organized miners stopped President Evo Morales from implementing plans to boost state control over the country's mines Sunday, according to leading officials who were advocating takeovers of the country's vast mineral wealth. Mr. Morales has generally used May 1 labor day festivities to highlight his socialist agenda of reverting the country's energy and mineral resources to state ownership. On previous labor days, he announced nationalizations of Bolivia's strategic hydrocarbon reserves and the electric power grid, with mass rallies and military displays. This year, however, anticipated takeovers of the mining sector failed to materialize." None of this however, is news, as Coeur d'Alene and, of course, Sumitomo, the two biggest silver miners in the politically embroiled country already were assured their facilities would not be touched so we fail to see how this non-news is in any way validating of a nearly 20% move. Elsewhere, Bloomberg notes what appears to have been a massive coordinate attack on silver starting just before 6:30 pm Eastern.
From Bloomberg:
"We opened up this morning n New Zealand exceptionally well bid across the board," Jonathan Barratt, managing director at Commodity Broking Services Pty, said in a phone interview from Sydney today. "We got a high in gold and then we got massive sell orders in the spot market and the price fell through. When futures opened the market fell again."
Looks like the old sell into low volume trick to flush the stops and kill the weak hands has worked again. Throw in last week's two CME margin hikes and Friday night's margin bonanza by MF Global, and one had a perfect storm set up for another wipe out in silver to start the week.
In the meantime, silver promptly managed to retrace over 50% of the move shortly after the dump. At this point whatever holders remain following last week's margin action and this evening's fine example of shock and awe will likely need far more energy and capital to be shaken out by the same entities whose primary goal is to prevent the surge in silver and ongoing capital-sapping collateral calls. Since none of the actual fundamentals before the long-term trajectory in silver (and gold) have changed, this appears like a rather attractive entry point.
Lastly, one should recall that silver had a mini 10% correction last week and not only promptly recovered but nearly passed the $50 level shortly thereafter. This time will not be any different.
More On The Silver Dive: "Massive Sell Orders" Coupled With Bolivian Nationalization Halt Combine For Perfect Weak Hand Shakeout Storm
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 05/01/2011 21:37 -0400
Two key factors that appear to be contributing to the rapid move in overnight silver (and subsequent jump to pare half its losses) is i) the fact that Bolivia, despite being in a cash crunch has for the time being yielded to miner demands and has put its nationalization plans (as discussed previously here) on hold, and ii) there has been a dramatic bout of selling coming out of nowhere, despite the PM complex having opened very well bid earlier on, in what appears a coordinate effort to nuke silver exclusively.
From the WSJ: "Opposition from Bolivia's independently organized miners stopped President Evo Morales from implementing plans to boost state control over the country's mines Sunday, according to leading officials who were advocating takeovers of the country's vast mineral wealth. Mr. Morales has generally used May 1 labor day festivities to highlight his socialist agenda of reverting the country's energy and mineral resources to state ownership. On previous labor days, he announced nationalizations of Bolivia's strategic hydrocarbon reserves and the electric power grid, with mass rallies and military displays. This year, however, anticipated takeovers of the mining sector failed to materialize." None of this however, is news, as Coeur d'Alene and, of course, Sumitomo, the two biggest silver miners in the politically embroiled country already were assured their facilities would not be touched so we fail to see how this non-news is in any way validating of a nearly 20% move. Elsewhere, Bloomberg notes what appears to have been a massive coordinate attack on silver starting just before 6:30 pm Eastern.
From Bloomberg:
"We opened up this morning n New Zealand exceptionally well bid across the board," Jonathan Barratt, managing director at Commodity Broking Services Pty, said in a phone interview from Sydney today. "We got a high in gold and then we got massive sell orders in the spot market and the price fell through. When futures opened the market fell again."
Looks like the old sell into low volume trick to flush the stops and kill the weak hands has worked again. Throw in last week's two CME margin hikes and Friday night's margin bonanza by MF Global, and one had a perfect storm set up for another wipe out in silver to start the week.
In the meantime, silver promptly managed to retrace over 50% of the move shortly after the dump. At this point whatever holders remain following last week's margin action and this evening's fine example of shock and awe will likely need far more energy and capital to be shaken out by the same entities whose primary goal is to prevent the surge in silver and ongoing capital-sapping collateral calls. Since none of the actual fundamentals before the long-term trajectory in silver (and gold) have changed, this appears like a rather attractive entry point.
Lastly, one should recall that silver had a mini 10% correction last week and not only promptly recovered but nearly passed the $50 level shortly thereafter. This time will not be any different.
Jonas Parker
Hooligan
It was announced this morning on Fox Business News at 0920 EST that COMEX had upped the margin requirements again. Silver was down $7.00 or so. It's now down only $1.15 and working its way back up. So much for TPTB controlling the market...
This is the first time I've seen the Kitco silver three-day chart with a $10.00 range. First I started saving the $4.00 range charts (which were rare enough that it was worth taking note of the dates), then starting in mid-April they went to $4.50, $7.00, $8.00, and now $10.00. Volatility in the silver markets is clearly here in a big way, although exactly what that means is a mystery to me. I have my fingers crossed for a huge move up, though!
