(Shelter) Input wanted......Thanks

[Rusty Shackelford]

I have an idea for a shelter.I guess you could call it a partial underground shelter.
I have a satelite dish that is out out commission,in storage.The dish is 10ft dia. app 3 ft.deep.

My idea is for an expedient shelter I could build in a couple of days.The idea is from the Southwest American Indians.They had shelters built with a sunken square or round area as the base.Then logs were secured onto a frame.Mud,thach,etc were used to cover the outside.Somtimes earth was piled onto the outside,providing a weatherproof house.

What i'm thinking about is a round sunken base dug 4 to 5 ft down.A subledge of 7 or more inches.The dish would fit down into this ledge.Bent rebar would be hooked onto the rim of the dish about every 3ft or so and cemented into pilotholes round the outside diameter of the dish.A waterproof tarp would be draped over the whole area and covered with dirt or a thin layer of cement.An openning would be made and a air vent added.A center floor jack would be used to help support the weight of the cover located at the center of the dish.
Thing is I'm not sure about the weight that this set up could handle.

Any ideas or welcome.What are some suggestions,what would you do different?? Thanks, Rusty

 

[CTCStrela]

First, what are you sheltering from, or intending to shelter from, and I can help from there

 

[CTCStrela]

Ah, an idea for you Rusty! Depending on how large a shelter you were intending, I've always wondered how this would work...


Find an abandoned or "free" boat hull, build a cinder block wall/room underground, and use the hull for the roof. Cover with 3 feet of soil for gamma shielding, whatever.

Of course, entry, ventilation, etc would have to be considered.

But the positive side of things is that you have an allready waterproof roof, with a design that is tailor made for resisting overpressure/damage/weight. It's a boat hull, for god's sake you know?

Weird thing is, I dreamed about doing this when I was all of 10 years old.

Wonder if that would work?

methinks it would, and very well!

 

[Christian for Israel]

if you built a foundation of concrete blocks on the ledge for the dish to rest on, it'd probably hold several feet of dirt easily. or you could buy a 8X10 foot shipping container and bury it.

http://mobilestorage.com/products/containers.htm

 

[Jumpy Frog]

Rusty,
My dad owned a satelite dish company when I was a teen. Is this old dish a steel dish or an aircraft aluminum one? Either way brace the He!! out of it so it doesn't collapes on you.

With your bracing, and dish in place you may want to try rolling chicken wire over it and adding cement to it. Joel Skosken's books have walls built up using this method. Roll out and bury 10-12" under the soil, and around your shelter, heavy plastic sheeting to help divert the rain and moisture.

Good luck and keep us in the loop.

Jumpy

 

[Christian for Israel]

good point jumpy, ferro-cement will greatly increase the strength of the dish, making it more of a form than anything. i'd think making 1/2-3/4" layers with 2-3 courses of chicken wire per layer, for a total thickness of 3 inches would be strong enough to hold a tank!

 

[Rusty Shackelford]

Thanks for the input!

I'd be using it for earth changes,Fire storm,extreme wind-storms,extreme cold.

I have other plans for a nuclear threat,but since Strela and CfI brought up radiation.Why not go all out.If I've got the time.

Yea Jummpy,It's Alum,and since you mentioned bracing.I've thought about a three prog steel supports may work.

CfI since you mentioned the cement.That reminded me about that spray on foam and concrete form material.I need to check locally to see who carries it.I might could use it as a form to spray the medium onto.

The waterproofing idea sounds great to.

Strela did you see my post in Cork room on Culvert shelter?Pretty interesting.

 

[Christian for Israel]

yep, it's called "shotcrete". it's a little different (and more expensive) than ferro-cement, but probably not much stronger.

 

[Patriot]

Instead of the dish get old tires.
Pack the tires with sand leaving center open. Stack like legos into a dome, Cover with wire cloth and press in cement. after cure cover with rubber foundation coating and backfill over.
Bulletproof and strong when done correctly.
We put one together in a weekend 12' in dia. three guys
about $150 in cement and wire. the center hole in the top tire was used for the chimney but if you dont want that put wire in center and pour cement into it.

 

[CTCStrela]

But but but guys....A fiberglass boat hull is allready about as strong of a dome as you can get, isn't it? And it's free! Just buy some cinderblocks to build the walls, pile dirt on top, right?
No concrete needed, as far as I can see....

Seriously...think about it. I'm going to build one of these suckers eventually, lol. Anyone see a weakness in the idea?

 

[Rusty Shackelford]

Strella...You have a good idea...but

I'm trying to run what I brung.I'm a packrat and I think I've got just about everything to do the project.But I like group brainstorming,you come up with really great ideas.The type of shelter I'm looking into.Will be one I could put together on short notice in the backyard.About two days leway.

Patriot,you've got a good idea.People who are in a tight spot could make good use of your idea,if they need a good shelter in a shorttime.Rammed earth is great for a nuke shelter.

CfI,I'll have to check out those different types of material and prices.

And Strella,if it rains you could have the best of both worlds.

 

[CTCStrela]

Here Rusty, I drew it, any engineers around here?

 

[CTCStrela]

If someone has an AC background, they should be able to figure out the proper difference in height to create a "chimney" effect and allow good flow-through of ventillation.

 

[Patriot]

But but but guys....A fiberglass boat hull is allready about as strong of a dome as you can get, isn't it? And it's free! Just buy some cinderblocks to build the walls, pile dirt on top, right?
No concrete needed, as far as I can see....

Seriously...think about it. I'm going to build one of these suckers eventually, lol. Anyone see a weakness in the idea?

Not really, take it from me I used to build boats for a living (hoping to go back to it after divorce)

Fiberglass hulls rely on the interior bulkheads for structural support and the loading in water is much different than packed earth over it. The structure would have no easy way of passing the load along. ( if its hard chined fogetabouit )

If you want to go that route think of a structure like a geo dome.
Then lay on plywood, then a couple of layers of glass cloth.
When you add up the cost of it (epoxy $$$$) its unworkable.

Think of materials you can use and get cheap. And think structural!! Loading earth on a structure is a mass of weight.

Shipping containers are cool but even those need additional stucture. We set two fortys side by side and they needed 4" channel supportting 4" i beams 4' on center in order to support 48" of soil and the possibilty of a vehicle on top of them.
We didn't factor for an M1 abhrams just a deuce and a half.

Dirt on your head kills ! Be safe while trying to remain safe.

 

[CTCStrela]

Damn...

wouldn't the load pass through the bulkheads, then from the gunwales to the walls?

 

[Christian for Israel]

if you're going to cover the shipping containers with that much dirt, you may want to cover them with 8 foot diameter sewer pipe cut lengthwise and welded in place. then cover the whole thing with several inches of wire reinforced concrete.

actually, i thought the boat was a good idea too CTS.

 

[CTCStrela]

Ah well ::shrugs::

 

[Patriot]

Damn...

wouldn't the load pass through the bulkheads, then from the gunwales to the walls?

I wouldnt bet my life on it! Its not feasable, belive me.

If you want cheap, try this:

Corrigated Culvert pipe. Cut in half, Make sure its well supported and it would handle a Load much better. Similar to a quonset hut.

Used bulk storage propane tank.
I ain't reccomending this but here it goes.
They have access flanges, take large volume air compressor and set air line inside. Pressure wash interior with non flammable solvent. when dry continue to force large volume of air into tank.
Cut with torches to desired need.
I would verify this but I was told this is done in scrapyards to disassemble them.
I dont give two ^&%$ about that. I have welded deisel tanks with that process but never had balls enough to try it on gastanks or propane. I would need to see it done first and even then I would be nervous.

 

[Patriot]

Damn...

wouldn't the load pass through the bulkheads, then from the gunwales to the walls?

I wouldnt bet my life on it! Its not feasable, belive me.

If you want cheap, try this:

Corrigated Culvert pipe. Cut in half, Make sure its well supported and it would handle a Load much better. Similar to a quonset hut.

Used bulk storage propane tank.
I ain't reccomending this but here it goes.
They have access flanges, take large volume air compressor and set air line inside. Pressure wash interior with non flammable solvent. when dry continue to force large volume of air into tank.
Cut with torches to desired need.
I would verify this but I was told this is done in scrapyards to disassemble them.
I dont give two ^&%$ about that. I have welded deisel tanks with that process but never had balls enough to try it on gastanks or propane. I would need to see it done first and even then I would be nervous.

 

[Christian for Israel]

i'd suggest filling the propane tank with compressed nitrogen. it's cheap and not flammable. if there's any propane left inside, filling it with air is adding the second ingredient to a fuel/air bomb...with you as the fuse.

 

[Patriot]

i'd suggest filling the propane tank with compressed nitrogen. it's cheap and not flammable. if there's any propane left inside, filling it with air is adding the second ingredient to a fuel/air bomb...with you as the fuse.

Yeah, that sounds like a good idea , I think the deal with commpressed air is movement so as to not allow fumes to build up. When I do deisel tanks I will run 20 to 30 psi through.
Noisy but works.