OP-ED Schlichter: Would the Military Side with Leftist Tyranny or with America? (VERY disturbing read - Dennis)

Troke

TB Fanatic
Ref Kent State.

Either Chanel 8 or 19 got a tape and has forensic analysis done and found a shot fired seconds before the Guard fired.

I'll have to hunt for the story. There was a problematic informant (drug) who was likely the shooter.
I have read the same thing. I have also read that the State was sued and sued and sued until they finally paid up to the 'survivors' and the gov declared never again would the NG be deployed with ammo.
 

Matt

Veteran Member
An 18 to 25 year old young man that is willing to stand up against severe peer pressure and threats of criminal prosecution is most rare! When I was in the USMC, almost every issue was framed within the consequences to "your career", even among the non-rate enlisted. I had zero intent of reenlisting, so it was always mildly amusing to listen to this spiel!

I have had the opportunity to sit on interview panels- interviewing and sometimes hiring recent combat vets for oil and gas plant work. I was also tasked with training them. Many of these young men definitely required direct supervision and often remedial instruction.....

The vast majority of troops will do what the platoon commanders and their NCOs tell them to. As for the tooth to tail ratio, I will take a squad of support Marines over a gaggle of "deer hunters" (a very sad demographic for the most part) or"militia" any day of the week!
 

Dozdoats

On TB every waking moment
BC (Before Corona) it was bad enough. Troopies wandering off to post mid-morning and home by 3pm, according apartment dwelling friends in Fayettenam.

Post-Corona, apparently they just phone it in.

Military? WHAT military?
 

Luddite

Veteran Member
Typed out two or three comments over the last couple of days. Deleted them because they just didn't look right. The military is just a microcosm.
Some will lean to the left, some lean to the right. Rending it into different camps won't look much different than what is happening in our whole country at the moment.

I have the utmost respect for any and ALL military members. IMO, Very few will look at big picture ideas when strong leaders give them direct orders. "fog of war" and all...

Most all will go home on leave or discharge. Family reunions and Christmas dinner will get interesting for our nation.
 

Night Breeze

Senior Member
Congress has control over O6 and above but you average GI Joe would not attack the fabric that has been the military for over 200 years. Also remember that old saying follow the money. Who has expanded the military in all branches and bought new weapons helped veterans and made military great again. The biggest thing Obama did for the military was allow gay and homosexuals to serve openly and allow all the alphabet misfits to fit. Trump on the other hand has made the military great again. Biden is only a shadow of Obama and he was nasty to the military. We are only talking 4 years since the left purged the military and even now Trump can't get Congress to give the military the tools they need to be the best in the world. But I feel the military will look the other way before they go back to the liberal lunacy that Democrats practice.
 

Squid

Veteran Member
The military is a strange bird, hard to explain to anyone who hasn’t been there.

Remember the left always makes their biggest mistakes when they execute some large well thought put plan for control but put into the plan how they believe groups and world isnot always as it exists in real life.

The left both dismisses the military as a bunch of high school losers that almost failed shop class and are also terrified the military would stand in the way from their stealing the country on the path to global one world woke utopia.

The military has a ton of Clinton and Obama top leadership selected for their bona fides in supporting Progressives but it is also an historic minded institution. The left is not really afraid or concerned with using the military to attack US citizens (yet) they are more concerned that the military could be used to prevent the coup. That is what they fear.

They are reaching for the golden ticket of complete absolute power they could leverage into completing the reshaping the country and the creation of rules to create a one party state only accountable to the elites to share the good life on the backs of the populace. If they are prevented from getting control the backlash will set the plans back beyond Soro’s living to see his great vision take shape.

They fear the military as opposition, just like they dismiss and fear middle America.

The military knows that direct attacks on US citizens is a no win option for the military. Some or all the orders would likely not be carried out and the leadership in the military knows that when large scale orders stop being followed (legally in this case) the officer cast lose. They would more likely stand aside and let it take its course imho. Sure some political hacks general will try to feather a future promotion by going on CNN or getting quoted in NY Times but that is all noise.

This election will be fought first in the ballot box, then in the courts. The left will attempt to riot if they don’t get their way but they mainly trash Portland, Seattle, Chicago and New York.

The radicals don’t have the actual numbers and they know this, without the Full weight and power of the entire government they lose and they know this. If they are frustrated these radicals will become even more enraged and they will start violently acting out in this rage, so when you see them running in groups with their firearms if they don’t get their way by threats and intimidation they will lash out at anyone who represents the ‘others.’

Of course if they see the election as lost cause they may start the killing before the election. This is what YOU DEMOCRATS have created. Just like the Germans living next door to the ‘work camps’ who chose not to know. You will try to tell yourself it wasn’t you who shot that retired cop but we all know better.
 

vector7

Veteran Member
Among the publicly known names are some of the most ardently anti-Trump voices in media and politics. Norm Eisen, who served as outside counsel for the House Judiciary Committee during impeachment, is part of the group, as is John Podesta, the former Hillary Clinton campaign chair who played key roles in the Obama and Bill Clinton White Houses, and former Democratic National Committee Chairwoman Donna Brazile.
Obama/Hillary/DNC's DeepState Coup against the Trump Administration continues...

RT 5min
View: https://twitter.com/ColumbiaBugle/status/1306049597182099457?s=19


View: https://twitter.com/ColumbiaBugle/status/1306051023367102465?s=19

RT 8min
View: https://twitter.com/ColumbiaBugle/status/1306070445829926912?s=19
 

Scrapman

Veteran Member
I guarantee when Trump wins he will need to call out the military to stop this shit. If they refuse the presidents orders we have a major constitutional crisis.
 

Old Gray Mare

Has No Life - Lives on TB
A thought from General James Mattis, Former US Defense Secretary: "There are some A$$holes in the world that just need to get shot.".
 

Dennis Olson

Chief Curmudgeon
_______________
I guarantee when Trump wins he will need to call out the military to stop this shit. If they refuse the presidents orders we have a major constitutional crisis.
First, it’s illegal to use the military on US soil. That’s the national guard. But I’m betting that after the elections, some very senior military staff will “retire” suddenly.
 

vector7

Veteran Member
The military has a ton of Clinton and Obama top leadership selected for their bona fides in supporting Progressives but it is also an historic minded institution. The left is not really afraid or concerned with using the military to attack US citizens (yet) they are more concerned that the military could be used to prevent the coup. That is what they fear.

They are reaching for the golden ticket of complete absolute power they could leverage into completing the reshaping the country and the creation of rules to create a one party state only accountable to the elites to share the good life on the backs of the populace. If they are prevented from getting control the backlash will set the plans back beyond Soro’s living to see his great vision take shape.

They fear the military as opposition, just like they dismiss and fear middle America...
The American Independent Middle Class is all that stands in their way from taking total control.

View: https://twitter.com/5amerausies/status/1306198731340029953?s=19


View: https://twitter.com/LoelleF/status/1306157733037699072?s=19
 

Troke

TB Fanatic
Refresher course on Kent state:

Kent State protest activity, 1966–1970[edit]
During the 1966 Homecoming Parade, protesters walked dressed in military paraphernalia with gas masks.[12]

In the fall of 1968, the Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) and a campus Black Student Organization staged a sit-in to protest police recruiters on campus. Two hundred fifty black students walked off campus in a successful amnesty bid for the protesters.[12]

On April 1, 1969, SDS members attempted to enter the administration building with a list of demands where they clashed with police. In response, the university revoked the Kent State SDS chapter charter. On April 16 a disciplinary hearing involving two of the protesters resulted in a confrontation between supporters and opponents of SDS. The Ohio State Highway Patrol was called and fifty-eight people were arrested. Four SDS leaders spent six months in prison as a result of the incident.[12]

On April 10, 1970, Jerry Rubin, a leader of the Youth International Party (also known as the Yippies), spoke on campus. In remarks reported locally, he said: "The first part of the Yippie program is to kill your parents. They are the first oppressors." Two weeks after that, Bill Anthrell, an SDS member and former student, distributed flyers to an event in which he said he was going to napalm a dog. The event turned out to be an anti-napalm teach-in.[12]

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City officials and downtown businesses received threats, and rumors proliferated that radical revolutionaries were in Kent to destroy the city and university. Several merchants reported they were told that if they did not display anti-war slogans, their businesses would be burned down. Kent's police chief told the mayor that according to a reliable informant, the ROTC building, the local army recruiting station, and post office had been targeted for destruction that night.[15] There were unconfirmed rumors of students with caches of arms, plots to spike the local water supply with LSD, and of students building tunnels for the purpose of blowing up the town's main store.[16] Satrom met with Kent city officials and a representative of the Ohio Army National Guard. Because of the rumors and threats, Satrom feared that local officials would not be able to handle future disturbances.[9] Following the meeting, Satrom made the decision to call Rhodes and request that the National Guard be sent to Kent, a request that was granted immediately.

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There were reports that some Kent firemen and police officers were struck by rocks and other objects while attempting to extinguish the blaze. Several fire engine companies had to be called because protesters carried the fire hose into the Commons and slashed it.[19][20][21] The National Guard made numerous arrests, mostly for curfew violations, and used tear gas; at least one student was slightly wounded with a bayonet.[22]

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Companies A and C, 1/145th Infantry and Troop G of the 2/107th Armored Cavalry, Ohio National Guard (ARNG), the units on the campus grounds, attempted to disperse the students. The legality of the dispersal was later debated at a subsequent wrongful death and injury trial. On appeal, the United States Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit ruled that authorities did indeed have the right to disperse the crowd.[28]

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The dispersal process began late in the morning with campus patrolman Harold Rice[29] riding in a National Guard Jeep, approaching the students to read an order to disperse or face arrest. The protesters responded by throwing rocks, striking one campus patrolman and forcing the Jeep to retreat.[9]

Just before noon, the Guard returned and again ordered the crowd to disperse. When most of the crowd refused, the Guard used tear gas. Because of wind, the tear gas had little effect in dispersing the crowd, and some launched a second volley of rocks toward the Guard's line and chanted "Pigs off campus!" The students lobbed the tear gas canisters back at the National Guardsmen, who wore gas masks.

When it became clear that the crowd was not going to disperse, a group of 77 National Guard troops from A Company and Troop G, with bayonets fixed on their M1 Garand rifles, began to advance upon the hundreds of protesters. As the guardsmen advanced, the protesters retreated up and over Blanket Hill, heading out of the Commons area. Once over the hill, the students, in a loose group, moved northeast along the front of Taylor Hall, with some continuing toward a parking lot in front of Prentice Hall (slightly northeast of and perpendicular to Taylor Hall). The guardsmen pursued the protesters over the hill, but rather than veering left as the protesters had, they continued straight, heading toward an athletic practice field enclosed by a chain link fence. Here they remained for about 10 minutes, unsure of how to get out of the area short of retracing their path: they had boxed themselves into a fenced-in corner. During this time, the bulk of the students congregated to the left and front of the guardsmen, approximately 150 to 225 ft (46 to 69 m) away, on the veranda of Taylor Hall. Others were scattered between Taylor Hall and the Prentice Hall parking lot, while still others were standing in the parking lot, or dispersing through the lot as they had been previously ordered.

While on the practice field, the guardsmen generally faced the parking lot, which was about 100 yards (91 m) away. At one point, some of them knelt and aimed their weapons toward the parking lot, then stood up again. At one point the guardsmen formed a loose huddle and appeared to be talking to one another. They had cleared the protesters from the Commons area, and many students had left, but some stayed and were still angrily confronting the soldiers, some throwing rocks and tear gas canisters. About 10 minutes later, the guardsmen began to retrace their steps back up the hill toward the Commons area. Some of the students on the Taylor Hall veranda began to move slowly toward the soldiers as they passed over the top of the hill and headed back into the Commons.


Map of the shootings
During their climb back to Blanket Hill, several guardsmen stopped and half-turned to keep their eyes on the students in the Prentice Hall parking lot. At 12:24 p.m.,[30] according to eyewitnesses, a sergeant named Myron Pryor turned and began firing at the crowd of students with his .45 pistol.[31] A number of guardsmen nearest the students also turned and fired their rifles at the students. In all, at least 29 of the 77 guardsmen claimed to have fired their weapons, using an estimate of 67 rounds of ammunition. The shooting was determined to have lasted 13 seconds, although John Kifner reported in The New York Times that "it appeared to go on, as a solid volley, for perhaps a full minute or a little longer."[32] The question of why the shots were fired remains widely debated.


Photo taken from the perspective of where the Ohio National Guard soldiers stood when they opened fire on the students

Bullet hole in Solar Totem #1 sculpture[33] by Don Drumm caused by a .30 caliber round fired by the Ohio National Guard at Kent State on May 4, 1970
The adjutant general of the Ohio National Guard told reporters that a sniper had fired on the guardsmen, which remains a debated allegation. Many guardsmen later testified that they were in fear for their lives, which was questioned partly because of the distance between them and the students killed or wounded. Time magazine later concluded that "triggers were not pulled accidentally at Kent State." The President's Commission on Campus Unrest avoided probing the question of why the shootings happened. Instead, it harshly criticized both the protesters and the Guardsmen, but it concluded that "the indiscriminate firing of rifles into a crowd of students and the deaths that followed were unnecessary, unwarranted, and inexcusable."[34]

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In 2007 Alan Canfora, one of the wounded students, located a static-filled copy of an audio tape of the shootings in a Yale library archive. The original 30-minute reel-to-reel audio tape recording was made by Terry Strubbe, a Kent State communications student who turned on his recorder and put its microphone in his dormitory window overlooking the campus.[69] At that time, Canfora asserted that an amplified version of the tape reveals the order to shoot, "Right here! Get Set! Point! Fire!". Lawrence Shafer, a guardsman who admitted he fired during the shootings and was one of those indicted in the 1974 federal criminal action with charges subsequently dismissed, told the Kent-Ravenna Record-Courier newspaper in May 2007: "I never heard any command to fire. That's all I can say on that." Referring to the assertion that the tape reveals the order, Shafer went on to say, "That's not to say there may not have been, but with all the racket and noise, I don't know how anyone could have heard anything that day." Shafer also said that "point" would not have been part of a proper command to open fire.[69]

A recent sound analysis of the tapes taken at the time indicates a shot was fired before the NG's started firing. So the sniper claim may have some validity.
 
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