ECON Say I have silver, how would I exchange for goods?

Grock

Veteran Member
The last time silver spiked I traded in shares of SLV, at $37.,for a new farm tractor. That’s how you play. FRNs remain the necessary medium of transfer, nothing more.
More recently I sold all my SLV in Feb, when the foul winds began to blow, And moved into bitcoin, specifically GBTC which was also beaten down, so a good choice for a vehicle.
GBTC has since more than doubled.
 

shane

Has No Life - Lives on TB
PM's always most see their day when local paper currency gets severely devalued.

PM's were king again during the worst of Wiemar Republic, Zimbabwe & Venezuela.

What a lot of people don't connect with, though, is that all three of those countries,
right before their currency imploded, each in their own day had the all-time fastest
growing stock market in the entire world!
They were each, in their day, #1 globally,
riding high on easy money via their gone wild liberal printing press. Until, they had
eroded their currency into worthlessness and it all collapsed upon itself.

Point is, when you see how USA has a world record breaking stock market, beware
that for much of it, too, may be built upon same easy money that increases our risk
of eventually going Zimbabwe, too. Many, smarter than me, already say that all our
easy money policies are the real prime mover to our record breaking stock market.

Panic Early, Beat the Rush!
- Shane
 
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Samuel Adams

Has No Life - Lives on TB
I’ll bite, for kicks.

Knowing well the intrinsic and historical value of silver (and gold.....copper....) I would accept, at any time, good metal coin in exchange for garden produce, services I may be able to provide, or durable goods I may produce.

Only issue would be the haggling over what is a fair exchange value.
I have always (unless heavy equipment is involved) erred to the generous side.

(Heavy equipment, and farm equipment, know no mercy when they decide to break)
 

fish hook

Deceased
I would prefer gold and silver go back to their original price,$20.00 for an ounce of gold and silver $1.00 for.71 ounces.that would mean our money once again had value.Yeah,i am still looking for a unicorn as well.
 

Troke

On TB every waking moment
FRNs have not had true value since we went off the gold standard.

Despite Troke's efforts to make it so, the gold standard was not the be all and end all. America was founded on SILVER. The dollar could be exchanged for silver up until the mid to late 1960s. THAT is when the US Dollar finally died, When the 1$ FRN took the place of the silver certificate of the same denomination.
Does anybody know this besides you? The only time I ever heard of silver getting a play at all was when the Hunt Bros tried to corner the market.

BTW, word on the street was when HL Hunt died, they found his basement so full of silver dollars that they had to bust in a basement wall and load the coins out on a front end loader.
 

Dozdoats

On TB every waking moment
Does anybody know this besides you?

It's called HISTORY, Troke. If you didn't already know it all you could look it up :D.

You can start with What Is a Dollar? | Edwin Viera if it doesn't explode your head. Here is a snippet-


/snip/
3. What does American history and the Constitution identify as the “dollar”?


History shows that the real “dollar” is a coin containing 371.25 grains (troy) of fine silver.


a. The “dollar” in the Constitution. Both Article I, Section 9, Clause 1 of the Constitution and the Seventh Amendment use the noun “dollar.” The Constitution does not define the “dollar,” though, because in the late 1700s everyone knew that the word meant the silver Spanish milled dollar.


b. Adoption of the “dollar” as the “Money-Unit” prior to ratification of the Constitution. The Founding Fathers did not need explicitly to adopt the “dollar” as the national unit of money or to define the “dollar” in the Constitution, because the Continental Congress had already done so.


The American Colonies did not originally adopt the dollar from England, but from Spain. Under that country’s monetary reforms of 1497, the silver real became the Spanish money of account. A new coin consisting of eight reales also appeared. Known as pesos, duros, piezas de a ocho (“pieces of eight”), or Spanish dollars, the coins achieved predominance in the New World because of Spain’s then-important commercial and political position.8Indeed, by 1704, the “pieces of eight” had in fact become a unit of account of the Colonies, as Queen Anne’s Proclamation of 1704 recognized, when it decreed that all other current foreign silver coins “stand regulated, according to their weight and fineness, according and in proportion to the rate . . . limited and set for the pieces of eight of Sevil, Pillar, and Mexico” (forms of Spanish dollars).9


By the American War of Independence, the Spanish dollar had become the major monetary unit of the Colonies. Not surprisingly, the Continental Congress adopted the dollar as the nation’s standard of value. On May 22, 1776, a Congressional committee reported on “the value of the several species of gold and silver coins current in these colonies, and the proportions they ought to bear to Spanish milled dollars.” And on September 2 of that year, a further committee report undertook to “declar[e] the precise weight and fineness of the . . . Spanish milled dollar . . . now becoming the Money-Unit or common measure of other coins in these states.”10[/I]
/snip/
 

WalknTrot

Veteran Member
How bad do you want that can of beans? How bad do you want that pig? It is very true that you can't eat silver or gold. You have to basically find somebody who is already wealthy enough in hard goods and thinks there is a future where holding your PM's will be to their advantage. Trade value is fluid.

Think Wild West on steroids.
 

Troke

On TB every waking moment
Does anybody know this besides you?

It's called HISTORY, Troke. If you didn't already know it all you could look it up :D.

You can start with What Is a Dollar? | Edwin Viera if it doesn't explode your head. Here is a snippet-


/snip/
3. What does American history and the Constitution identify as the “dollar”?


History shows that the real “dollar” is a coin containing 371.25 grains (troy) of fine silver.


a. The “dollar” in the Constitution. Both Article I, Section 9, Clause 1 of the Constitution and the Seventh Amendment use the noun “dollar.” The Constitution does not define the “dollar,” though, because in the late 1700s everyone knew that the word meant the silver Spanish milled dollar.


b. Adoption of the “dollar” as the “Money-Unit” prior to ratification of the Constitution. The Founding Fathers did not need explicitly to adopt the “dollar” as the national unit of money or to define the “dollar” in the Constitution, because the Continental Congress had already done so.


The American Colonies did not originally adopt the dollar from England, but from Spain. Under that country’s monetary reforms of 1497, the silver real became the Spanish money of account. A new coin consisting of eight reales also appeared. Known as pesos, duros, piezas de a ocho (“pieces of eight”), or Spanish dollars, the coins achieved predominance in the New World because of Spain’s then-important commercial and political position.8Indeed, by 1704, the “pieces of eight” had in fact become a unit of account of the Colonies, as Queen Anne’s Proclamation of 1704 recognized, when it decreed that all other current foreign silver coins “stand regulated, according to their weight and fineness, according and in proportion to the rate . . . limited and set for the pieces of eight of Sevil, Pillar, and Mexico” (forms of Spanish dollars).9


By the American War of Independence, the Spanish dollar had become the major monetary unit of the Colonies. Not surprisingly, the Continental Congress adopted the dollar as the nation’s standard of value. On May 22, 1776, a Congressional committee reported on “the value of the several species of gold and silver coins current in these colonies, and the proportions they ought to bear to Spanish milled dollars.” And on September 2 of that year, a further committee report undertook to “declar[e] the precise weight and fineness of the . . . Spanish milled dollar . . . now becoming the Money-Unit or common measure of other coins in these states.”10[/I]
/snip/
It is true that out in the hinterlands there were people who went through their entire life without every seeing gold coins. I think McPherson (?) mentions that in his history of the Civil War. They dealt exclusively with silver or what the local bank printed.

But for some weird reason I keep thinking the entire US monetary system until 1933 was based on gold. Thus the Panic of 1873 was caused by somebody trying to corner the gold market. And the Panic of 1893 was partially bailed out by the Alaskan Gold Strike after JP Morgan bailed out the US Treasury with his pocket money.
 

Dozdoats

On TB every waking moment
There are better discussions out there, but this one is short at least.
================


An Illustrated Timeline of the Gold Standard in the U.S.

December 8, 2015


Senator Ted Cruz has called for a return to the gold standard.
Ever since the U.S. left the gold standard for good in 1971, some politicians and investors have called for its return. At one of the Republican presidential debates in October, Texas Senator Ted Cruz became the latest, touting the stability and booming prosperity the U.S. economy enjoyed in the years when the dollar was pegged to the yellow metal.


In previous Frank Talks, I’ve highlighted some of the consequences of having a free-floating fiat currency, one of them being soaring national debt. When money is limited, as it is in a true gold standard system, so too is reckless government spending.


You can see how dramatically all debt in the U.S., both public and private, began to soar past economic growth once the gold standard was ended.




But my goal today isn’t to argue for or against a gold standard. The system worked well in the second half of the 19th century, but economies have grown so large that there’s no longer any way they could be sustained by such a limited commodity.


Even former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan, who has consistently supported the idea that gold is money, agrees, telling the Gold Report in 2013: “A return to the gold standard in any form is nowhere on anybody’s horizon.”


So instead, I want to lay out the facts of America’s past relationship with gold as a currency and dispel some of the misconceptions people might have.


1789
For the first 40 years of its existence, the U.S. operates on a bimetallic system of gold and silver—officially, at least. Practically, silver coins are the favored currency, and domestic purchases made with gold are rare.


1834
Congress adjusts the silver-to-gold ratio, from 15-1 to 16-1. This makes gold cheaper relative to the world market price ratio. Silver begins to be exported, and by 1850, silver coins all but disappear in the U.S. The yellow metal becomes the principal form of currency.


1862
The U.S. abandons the gold standard briefly during the Civil War. For the first time, it issues fiat money with no convertibility into silver, gold or any other metal. In 1879, Congress freezes the amount of paper money in circulation at $347 million, where it remains for about a century.


A $1 greenback issued in 1862. It was the first time the U.S. issued paper money unbacked by physical gold or silver.


1879
The U.S. finally adopts a “classic” gold standard, one that proponents such as Senator Cruz wish to revive. In such a system, a standard mass of the yellow metal defines the value of a currency unit. Paper money, then, is not a separate good from gold and is fully convertible.


This system lasts until World War I. Although this period isn’t free of financial crises, it’s still widely considered to be one of the most economically stable in American history.


But let’s not overstate this stability. The table below shows us that between 1879 and 1913, when the classic gold standard is in effect, the U.S. actually experiences an average deflationary rate of -0.02 percent. At the same time, consumer prices have a standard deviation of only 1.98. Inflation never falls below -4.74 percent or rises above 4.53 percent. The other periods, by contrast, have huge swings in consumer prices.


U.S. Consumer Prices Were Most Stable on the Gold Standard



1900

Concerned that the U.S. might be returning to a bimetallic system, Congress passes the Gold Standard Act, making the gold dollar the official unit of currency. Greenbacks remain as legal tender but for the first time can be redeemed in gold.


a political cartoon from the 1940s criticizes Pres. Roosevelt's decision to take the U.S. off the gold standard
1913
In response to periodic banking panics when gold reserves fell short, the Federal Reserve is established as a lender of last resort. The Fed is not only charged with maintaining the gold standard but also starts issuing Federal Reserve notes that are 40 percent backed by the yellow metal.


1933
Four years after the Wall Street Crash of 1929, the Fed removes the U.S. from the gold standard to expand monetary policy. Convertibility, therefore, is ended.


“The free circulation of gold coins is unnecessary,” President Franklin Roosevelt tells Congress, insisting that the transfer of gold “is essential only for the payment of international trade balances.”


Roosevelt nationalizes gold by issuing an executive order requiring all gold coins, bullion and certificates to be turned over to the Fed at $20.67 per ounce. Hoarding gold in coin or bullion is punishable by a fine of up to $10,000 and/or jail time. These policies are reinforced in the Gold Reserve Act of 1934.


In 1971, President Nixon severed the dollar's final ties to gold.
1944
Representatives from the U.S. and 43 other countries meet in Bretton Woods, New Hampshire, to normalize commercial and financial relations. The agreement is a quasi-gold standard whereby each currency other than the U.S. dollar has a fixed parity to the dollar, which itself is pegged to and can be exchanged for gold at $35 per ounce. (This does not apply to Americans, however, who still can’t hold gold.) The dollar becomes the world’s reserve currency.


1971
President Richard Nixon “closes the gold window” after announcing the U.S. would no longer convert dollars into gold. This move is initially supposed to be temporary, but in 1976 the U.S. monetary system officially becomes one purely of fiat money. Gold rises 2,330 percent during the decade, from $35 per ounce to $850.


1974
On December 31, President Gerald Ford permits private gold ownership again in the U.S.
 

shane

Has No Life - Lives on TB
You have to basically find somebody who is already wealthy enough in hard goods and thinks there is a future where holding your PM's will be to their advantage.
Not necessarily. He might not have to rationalize holding them for long at all.

Sometimes the people who might consider taking your PM's already have had
something in mind to be gotten that he knows can only be had with those PM's.

He might be trading them for something else of value before the day's done.

Panic Early, Beat the Rush!
- Shane
 

Doat

Veteran Member
And than there will be those that will just shoot and take what they need. That's if your talking total break down of law and order.
 

West

Senior
And than there will be those that will just shoot and take what they need. That's if your talking total break down of law and order.

Right. And why we all have to be of the mindset to shoot first. No warning shots. And to put the heads of the zombies on the fence post.
 

marsofold

Veteran Member
I wouldn't rule out a future establishment of the "ammo standard" as a black market currency. Single 22LR or 9mm cartridges substituting for silver. And a box of 5.56mm or .308 / 30-06 substituting for gold. Especially if the traitor party comes to power and outlaws ammo.
 

Laurane

Canadian Loonie
We have to take a minimum out of our Retirement a/c every year, and it is based on a % of the final balance of the year. Since our stocks have been steadily going down (oil stocks) we won't owe too much tax on our withdrawal.

So I am going to buy junk silver and some regular silver coins and I am sure that the value of them will go up at least 10-20% in the coming years p/a, which is much more than the 2.5% we get in savings a/c now.

We used to buy gold and platinum when we got bonuses when we were young and prime savers, and they were very helpful in increasing enough for major purchases. I just can't see PMs going down much anymore, with the volatile world/China situation - up and down a bit, but steadily upwards long term.

I do like the idea of junk silver, but might have a problem getting some in Canada - will have to research our silver coin manufacturing and see what years they lost their silver value. This is in addition to our regular storage buys. We are trying to sell our place and move back to near our kids, so carting silver around isn't a big deal and I don't want FRNs in the bank.
 

Dozdoats

On TB every waking moment
I wouldn't rule out a future establishment of the "ammo standard" as a black market currency.

Jeff Cooper penned an essay some decades ago titled "Ballistic Wampum." Haven't thought about it for some time.

In an article titled "Ballistic Wampum" in Issue #6 of P.S. Letter (1979) Jeff Cooper wrote about stockpiling ammunition far in excess of his own needs, keeping the extra available to use for bartering.
-- Retreat (survivalism) - Wikipedia
 

mecoastie

Veteran Member
I have bought and sold with PMs and it has always been agree on the value of the silver and the product in FRNs. Now in a scenario where FRNs are useless and people want to trade. I would take PMs If they have nothing else I need and I have enough of what I am trading but my preference would be tangible goods (food,seed,ammo etc) over PMs. Conversely if the local doctor/mechanic/plumber is in high demand those PMs may be more valuable to him. Chances are a lot of people can offer the doc or the mechanic eggs, potatoes, ammo etc. Having a little gold or silver might get you in the door while others are waiting in line.

Or it might work as a bribe to get you in or out of somewhere. My former coworkers in laws are Belgian. They keep a stash of PMs and diamonds in case they needed to get out during the cold war. They are old enough to remember that during WW2 that is what got folks out of Europe. Not cash. Same thing in Russia during the revolution. My great grandfather used gold to bribe their way out and get to England.
 
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Steel Chips

Veteran Member
"Pieces of eight were 8 reales coins. That was a denomination, not a fraction. ETA - I should add that the Spanish trade dollar, or milled dollar, was the inspiration for the US silver dollar.

Trade dollars are silver coins, which facilitated trade in China and the Far East territories. Their popularity was fueled principally by the established and known trade value of the Spanish coin 8 Reales. They formed a core transacting trade medium between the Far East and major political players of the 19th century.

US silver dollars and some other coins were sometimes cut into eighths with each piece referred to as a "bit." Two bits was the equivalent of a quarter..... the ORIGINAL "bitcoin""

Not 100% accurate and incomplete. The Spanish real (royal) was used world wide for trade. It was very commonly used in the American colonies due to its known quality and availability. At some point it appears the real was referred to as a thaler, possibly because some other circulating coins at the time were called silver thalers. Mispronunciation may have led to use of the word dollar.

Due to its large size and value, the eight-real was cut into the more manageable 8 pieces, or bits, and a quarter real was referred to as 2 bits, which was still generally spoken to refer to a modern quarter dollar. You don't hear it much anymore.

Referring back to American colonial times, goods and services were regularly sold as real bits, or units of silver. Written prices were annotated by the letter "U" superimposed with the letter "S". This symbol was eventually changed to the letter "S" with 2 vertical slashes. For those of us old enough to remember, until the past few decades, the "dollar sign" was made with 2 vertical slashes. Of course, it has now been changed to an "S" with one vertical slash. Historically, the dollar sign represented silver. Today, it falsely represents fiat (debt notes).

This post represents my historical research. If there are disagreements I would like to see them.
 

miscount

Contributing Member
I traded 33 oz of silver bullion for a Seiga 308 years ago. Told the guy I was cash poor at the time but had to have the gun. Was at a gun show, went home to get the silver. Got the gun I was and still am happy about the trade.
 
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