POL Russia - Texas and Twitter Social Media Warfare #freetexas
Blacknarwhal
Let's Go Brandon!
Now that's an interesting notion.
Russia tells Texas to do something it's always basically wanted to do.
But Texas, as I'm given to understand, would sooner cut off its own foot than do what Russia tells it to do.
Welcome to a modern-era Catch 22!
RCSAR
Veteran Member
Well it does add up in a way.
The u.s. is pushing Ukraine to leave Russia.
So...Russia starts a thing to get Texas to leave the union.
That is the connection I see.
BTW there are 250,000 Texans who have come out and called for Texas to leave the union. That number grows every year.
The u.s. is pushing Ukraine to leave Russia.
So...Russia starts a thing to get Texas to leave the union.
That is the connection I see.
BTW there are 250,000 Texans who have come out and called for Texas to leave the union. That number grows every year.
Possible Impact
TB Fanatic
Putin’s Plot to Get Texas to Secede
For Moscow's right-wingers, payback means teaming up with a band of
Texas secessionists.
By CASEY MICHEL
June 22, 2015
http://www.politico.com/magazine/st...exas-secession-119288.html?ml=po#.VYl0mxNVhBc
Nathan Smith, who styles himself the “foreign minister” for the Texas
Nationalist Movement, appeared last Spring at a far-right confab in
St. Petersburg, Russia. Despite roaming around in his cowboy hat,
Smith managed to keep a low-key presence at the conference, which was
dominated by fascists and neo-Nazis railing against Western decadence.
But at least one Russian newspaper, Vzglyad, caught up with the American,
noted that TNM is “hardly a marginal group,”and quoted Smith liberally
on the excellent prospects for a partial breakup of the United States.
Smith declared that the Texas National Movement has 250,000 supporters
—including all the Texans currently serving in the U.S. Army—and they all
“identify themselves first and foremost as Texans” but are being forced to
remain Americans. The United States, he added, “is not a democracy,
but a dictatorship.” The Kremlin’s famed troll farms took the interview
and ran with it, with dozens of bots instantly tweeting about a “Free Texas.”
For Russians, this was delicious payback. Since the breakup of the Soviet
Union two decades ago, many Russians have come to blame the United
States for their plight; a seething resentment over U.S. culpability in the
loss of Russian national power is one of the reasons Vladimir Putin is so
popular. It has only worsened since the United States has led an
international effort to isolate and sanction Moscow over its annexation of
Crimea and incursions into eastern Ukraine.
Thus, over the past 15 months there has been a sudden, bizarro uptick
of Russian interest in and around the American Southwest, most notably
Texas, where secessionist sentiment never seems to entirely die out
(TNM’s predecessor group, the “Republic of Texas,” disbanded after
secessionist militants took hostages in 1997). In a rehash of the Soviet
Union’s fate, numerous Russian voices have taken to envisioning an
American break-up, E Pluribus Unum in inverse—out of one, many.
Nor is Texas the lone region for which Russia has cast secessionist support
since the Crimean seizure. Venice, Scotland, Catalonia—the Russian media
have voiced fervent support for secession in all these Western allies.
(Of course, Moscow’s mantra—secession for thee, but not for me
—means you’d be hard-pressed to find any Russian official offering support
for Siberian, Tatar, or Chechen independence.)
“Since the destabilization of the West is on Russia’s agenda, they may try
to reach out to the U.S. separatists,” Anton Shekhovtsov, a researcher on
Moscow’s links to far-right movements in Europe, told me. Russia wants
a “deepening of social divisions in the American society, destabilizing
the internal political life.” And certain Texans, rather than running from
the taint of an authoritarian backing, have reciprocated.
As a political tack, none of this is completely new. Nearly a century ago,
British codebreakers presented the American ambassador with a decrypted
cable that came to be known as the Zimmermann Telegram, helping to
cajole a recalcitrant United States into the Great War. And understandably
so: In the deciphered text, German Foreign Minister Arthur Zimmermann
alerted the Mexican government that, should the U.S. enter the war,
“we shall give general financial support, and it is understood that Mexico
is to reconquer her lost territory of New Mexico, Texas and Arizona.”
President Woodrow Wilson’s pledge to forgo war evaporated overnight.
Just a few months ago, a cousin of the Zimmermann Telegram was
delivered by a Russian government official, directed squarely at an
American government once more waffling about military intervention
the European theater. The speaker of Chechnya’s parliament, Dukuvakha
Abdurakhmanov, warned that should the U.S. increase its supply of arms
to Kyiv, “we will begin delivery of new weapons to Mexico” and “resume
debate on the legal status of the territories annexed by the United States,
which are now the U.S. states of California, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada,
Utah, Colorado and Wyoming.” As to the putative destination for the
weapons, Abdurakhmanov cited unspecified “guerrillas.”
Sealing his screed, Abdurakhmanov inexplicably cited Joe Biden as the
creator of the current Ukrainian government.)
If his comment existed in a vacuum, Abdurakhmanov’s histrionics could be
laughed off, another sign of Moscow’s ferment sapping logical discourse.
Unfortunately, it doesn’t.
Kremlin. But it can hardly be an accident that last December, in the midst
of the ruble’s parlous plummet, Russian President Vladimir Putin lashed out
at putative Western hypocrisy. “As soon as they succeed in putting [our
bear] on a chain, they will rip out his teeth and his claws,” the president growled.
“We have heard many times from officials that it’s unfair that Siberia,
with its immeasurable wealth, belongs entirely to Russia. Unfair,
how do you like that? And grabbing Texas from Mexico was fair!” No matter
that the U.S. never wrested Texas from Mexico. No matter that such
annexation took place under the 19th-century aegis of expansion and
empire. The parallels, to Putin, are too good to pass up.
Russian state media, of course, took the Crimea-as-Texas analogy
and sprinted off with it. According to Sputnik, the ballot-by-bayonet
“referendum” in Crimea saw its historical precedent in Texas.
“If one accepts the current status of Texas despite its controversial origin
story, then they are more than obliged to recognize the future status of
Crimea,” the outlet wrote. Again, if you overlook the reality that land grabs
and forced annexations exist in a Victorian firmament, rather than a
post-modern international order, then, sure, a faded parallel can emerge,
but only if you squint past the prior 170 years of statecraft.
Casey Michel is a recent Master’s graduate from Columbia University’s Harriman Nationalist Movement, appeared last Spring at a far-right confab in
St. Petersburg, Russia. Despite roaming around in his cowboy hat,
Smith managed to keep a low-key presence at the conference, which was
dominated by fascists and neo-Nazis railing against Western decadence.
But at least one Russian newspaper, Vzglyad, caught up with the American,
noted that TNM is “hardly a marginal group,”and quoted Smith liberally
on the excellent prospects for a partial breakup of the United States.
Smith declared that the Texas National Movement has 250,000 supporters
—including all the Texans currently serving in the U.S. Army—and they all
“identify themselves first and foremost as Texans” but are being forced to
remain Americans. The United States, he added, “is not a democracy,
but a dictatorship.” The Kremlin’s famed troll farms took the interview
and ran with it, with dozens of bots instantly tweeting about a “Free Texas.”
For Russians, this was delicious payback. Since the breakup of the Soviet
Union two decades ago, many Russians have come to blame the United
States for their plight; a seething resentment over U.S. culpability in the
loss of Russian national power is one of the reasons Vladimir Putin is so
popular. It has only worsened since the United States has led an
international effort to isolate and sanction Moscow over its annexation of
Crimea and incursions into eastern Ukraine.
Thus, over the past 15 months there has been a sudden, bizarro uptick
of Russian interest in and around the American Southwest, most notably
Texas, where secessionist sentiment never seems to entirely die out
(TNM’s predecessor group, the “Republic of Texas,” disbanded after
secessionist militants took hostages in 1997). In a rehash of the Soviet
Union’s fate, numerous Russian voices have taken to envisioning an
American break-up, E Pluribus Unum in inverse—out of one, many.
Nor is Texas the lone region for which Russia has cast secessionist support
since the Crimean seizure. Venice, Scotland, Catalonia—the Russian media
have voiced fervent support for secession in all these Western allies.
(Of course, Moscow’s mantra—secession for thee, but not for me
—means you’d be hard-pressed to find any Russian official offering support
for Siberian, Tatar, or Chechen independence.)
“Since the destabilization of the West is on Russia’s agenda, they may try
to reach out to the U.S. separatists,” Anton Shekhovtsov, a researcher on
Moscow’s links to far-right movements in Europe, told me. Russia wants
a “deepening of social divisions in the American society, destabilizing
the internal political life.” And certain Texans, rather than running from
the taint of an authoritarian backing, have reciprocated.
As a political tack, none of this is completely new. Nearly a century ago,
British codebreakers presented the American ambassador with a decrypted
cable that came to be known as the Zimmermann Telegram, helping to
cajole a recalcitrant United States into the Great War. And understandably
so: In the deciphered text, German Foreign Minister Arthur Zimmermann
alerted the Mexican government that, should the U.S. enter the war,
“we shall give general financial support, and it is understood that Mexico
is to reconquer her lost territory of New Mexico, Texas and Arizona.”
President Woodrow Wilson’s pledge to forgo war evaporated overnight.
Just a few months ago, a cousin of the Zimmermann Telegram was
delivered by a Russian government official, directed squarely at an
American government once more waffling about military intervention
the European theater. The speaker of Chechnya’s parliament, Dukuvakha
Abdurakhmanov, warned that should the U.S. increase its supply of arms
to Kyiv, “we will begin delivery of new weapons to Mexico” and “resume
debate on the legal status of the territories annexed by the United States,
which are now the U.S. states of California, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada,
Utah, Colorado and Wyoming.” As to the putative destination for the
weapons, Abdurakhmanov cited unspecified “guerrillas.”
Sealing his screed, Abdurakhmanov inexplicably cited Joe Biden as the
creator of the current Ukrainian government.)
If his comment existed in a vacuum, Abdurakhmanov’s histrionics could be
laughed off, another sign of Moscow’s ferment sapping logical discourse.
Unfortunately, it doesn’t.
***
It’s unclear just how high up these propaganda efforts go in the
Kremlin. But it can hardly be an accident that last December, in the midst
of the ruble’s parlous plummet, Russian President Vladimir Putin lashed out
at putative Western hypocrisy. “As soon as they succeed in putting [our
bear] on a chain, they will rip out his teeth and his claws,” the president growled.
“We have heard many times from officials that it’s unfair that Siberia,
with its immeasurable wealth, belongs entirely to Russia. Unfair,
how do you like that? And grabbing Texas from Mexico was fair!” No matter
that the U.S. never wrested Texas from Mexico. No matter that such
annexation took place under the 19th-century aegis of expansion and
empire. The parallels, to Putin, are too good to pass up.
Russian state media, of course, took the Crimea-as-Texas analogy
and sprinted off with it. According to Sputnik, the ballot-by-bayonet
“referendum” in Crimea saw its historical precedent in Texas.
“If one accepts the current status of Texas despite its controversial origin
story, then they are more than obliged to recognize the future status of
Crimea,” the outlet wrote. Again, if you overlook the reality that land grabs
and forced annexations exist in a Victorian firmament, rather than a
post-modern international order, then, sure, a faded parallel can emerge,
but only if you squint past the prior 170 years of statecraft.
Institute. His writing has appeared in the Atlantic, Foreign Policy, and Slate,
and he can be followed on Twitter at @cjcmichel.
Melodi
Disaster Cat
Not likely to happen as long as the Federal Government provide lots of lovely money; if that stops then yes this is a possibility and would even be legal for Texas to do so, but I don't expect to see it any time really soon unless everything fall apart. The Texas is most likely to be the first State to go since it (and maybe Hawaii, that's iff) are the only ones who can do so in completely "legal" fashion.
Of course if things really get bad, "legal" won't matter much anymore...
Of course if things really get bad, "legal" won't matter much anymore...
They actually can't. They can split into five different states, but it's not "legal" for any state to secede from the union.
RCSAR
Veteran Member
That is just a paperwork issue.
Texas splits into 5 diff States in the morning.
Those State are not part of the union. They are new States.
Same day in the afternoon the 5 areas vote to join and form one Texas Republic.
It would keep lawyers busy for decades with work.
Of course nothing will happen until we get our gold.
"Legally", no. Once Texas state legislature and the US congress both agreed, then Texas could subdivide into five states, adding four more states to the union instantaneously. That said, if a state is going to secede they're probably well past the point of caring what the US Congress thinks they're allowed to do...
Personally I will be very surprised if Texas is still in the union 20 years from now.
Blacknarwhal
Let's Go Brandon!
I'll be honest, I'd hate to see you guys go. I admit I've never been to Texas, and as a Michigan boy it's a bit too hot for me down there, but you guys have been good to the rest of us and it'd be tough thinking of you as a whole other country.
I've been to 48 of the 50 states and if Texas weren't so damn hot I would happily live there. They have a level of pride in their state that is rarely matched throughout the rest of the US.
TheSearcher
Are you sure about that?
This is so twisted. Ukraine is trying to not be reabsorbed into a new sovietesque Russian construct. They "left" Russia about a quarter century ago.
RCSAR
Veteran Member
Funny you mention that.
The State of Texas ran a ad campaign on TV and print for years with the tagline TEXAS a Whole Other Country. I can't seem to find an image of that.
Blacknarwhal
Let's Go Brandon!
I have been saying for some time now that Russia could severely weaken the USA by surreptitiously supporting and supplying the growing conservative movement. Eventually, the movement would grow big enough that it would precipitate a division of the country. The remaining rump conservative America would never be powerful enough to pose any threat, and the various socialist states would either implode or integrate with one of the leftist superstates, which would by definition have no desire to interfere with Russia.
Caplock50
I am the Winter Warrior
In the Constitution of the United States, it plainly states that all powers not explicitly stated as belonging to the United States is reserved and held by the separate states. And nowhere in the Constitution does it say anything about secession. Therefore that power *is* still in the hands of the people of each separate state.
""Now lets address another issue. All political power is inherent in the People. This is a principle that has existed from time immemorial. It is a fact of the nature of things. This principle was stated in the American Declaration of Independence. It is included in the National Constitution for the Republic of Texas of 1836. It is stated in every "State" constitution written for Texas. We must remember that the People of Texas exercised this principle when they voted, in 1861 to withdraw from their unlawful union with the United States.
The vote, taken by county, was 75% in favor of withdrawal. This was the People of Texas exercising their political authority to determine their own fate and their own future. The United States, and its courts, maintains that the United States is a "perpetual union" and no one may leave or secede. How does this square with the statement in their own Declaration of Independence that "All political power is inherent in the people?" It simply does not.""
http://www.freedom-school.com/annexation-of-texas.html
""Now lets address another issue. All political power is inherent in the People. This is a principle that has existed from time immemorial. It is a fact of the nature of things. This principle was stated in the American Declaration of Independence. It is included in the National Constitution for the Republic of Texas of 1836. It is stated in every "State" constitution written for Texas. We must remember that the People of Texas exercised this principle when they voted, in 1861 to withdraw from their unlawful union with the United States.
The vote, taken by county, was 75% in favor of withdrawal. This was the People of Texas exercising their political authority to determine their own fate and their own future. The United States, and its courts, maintains that the United States is a "perpetual union" and no one may leave or secede. How does this square with the statement in their own Declaration of Independence that "All political power is inherent in the people?" It simply does not.""
http://www.freedom-school.com/annexation-of-texas.html
iceblue
Senior Member
If Russia supplied the lower class suburban welfare jungle with assault rifles the establishment would be tied up fighting extremism in its own country. Social disorder would tear America apart and bring the country to its knees.
Blacknarwhal
Let's Go Brandon!
Sounds like someone's been reading R. Crumb.
Frankly, I never saw that working, myself. Once the welfare junglers decide to go full-on war mode, you'll have Good Ole Boys actively hunting them for pelts.
Possible Impact
TB Fanatic
Um, has anybody looked at the Flag of Novorossiya?(They might have borrowed a thing or two from the American South...)
Flag of Novorossiya
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Novorossiya
Their Battle Flag
Novorossiya is the self-proclaimed confederation of
Donetsk and Lugansk republics in Eastern Ukraine.
Tex88
Veteran Member
Based on those:
https://flagspot.net/flags/ru~nav.html#jak