Ron Paul followers pose danger for McCain in west

Fred

Middle of the road
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/R/RON_PAUL_OUTPOSTS?SITE=AP

Ron Paul followers pose danger for McCain in West

LAS VEGAS (AP) -- Dueling delegations pitting Ron Paul's Nevada supporters against those of John McCain vow to take their fight to the Republican National Convention.

That's just one sign that the outsider, Internet-fueled movement led by the feisty Republican congressman from Texas remains afloat in the wake of McCain's victory in the GOP primaries.

In the libertarian-leaning West, where Paul's message of distrust of the federal government and ardent individualism played particularly well, there is talk of Republicans straying from McCain. Libertarian candidate Bob Barr has emerged as a favorite alternative for Paul activists, followed by Constitutional Party candidate Chuck Baldwin.

Even if the numbers of such dissenters are small, in tight contests in key Western states they could spoil McCain's chances, experts say.

"In Nevada, there's absolutely enough to have an effect on the election," said Chuck Muth, a leading conservative activist in a state in which early polls show McCain and Democratic candidate Barack Obama in a statistical tie.

"I think that you will see not just Libertarians who always vote for the Libertarian candidate but conservative Republicans saying we've had it, we've had enough and they're going to go ahead and vote Libertarian," Muth said.

Paul - or "Dr. Paul," as his followers reverently refer to the obstetrician-turned-politician - ran as the Libertarian Party nominee for president in 1988. But this year he carved out a following as an antiestablishment Republican. His campaign won more than 1 million votes and became a catchall for anti-war, anti-government voters and disaffected Republicans.

The eclectic coalition racked up significant numbers. Paul placed second - ahead of McCain - in Republican caucuses in Nevada and Montana. He posted strong showings in nominating contests in Colorado, Washington and Oregon. In early June, he pulled away 14 percent of the vote from the already certain nominee in the New Mexico primary.

This is the West that McCain must win.

The interior West generally has been friendly territory for Republicans seeking the White House. Nevada, Montana and Colorado voted for George W. Bush in 2000 and 2004.

But history also warns of the impact of feisty Texans who preach small government.

"There's little doubt Bill Clinton would not have won Montana if it weren't for Ross Perot," said Bob Brown, a senior fellow at the Center for the Rocky Mountain West at the University of Montana. "And I think it's clear those votes were Republican."

The same could be said of Nevada, New Mexico and Colorado, states where the two-time independent candidate for president is often given credit for Clinton's breaking a two-decade-long Republican presidential winning streak in 1992.

The McCain campaign says they expect many Paul voters to come home to the GOP before Nov. 4.

"At the end of the day, Republicans are going to vote for John McCain. He's a Western candidate who understands water issues, land issues. He's a fiscal conservative," said Rick Gorka, a campaign spokesman. "His message is appealing to a broad spectrum of voters."

There's little sign of that unification yet. In Nevada, state GOP officials abruptly shut down the state convention as a group of well-organized newcomers were poised to win delegates for Paul.

The group led by Paul supporters then held its own rogue convention and elected its own delegates. For its part, the state party couldn't get enough delegates to attend a second convention and appointed delegates by committee. A judge ruled against the Paul supporters when they filed suit. They now plan to file a challenge with the Republican National Committee.

Both groups are heading to the national convention in St. Paul, Minn.

"We're trying to say, 'Hey, you guys got to play by the rules, and if you don't, you'll face the consequences,'" said Wayne Terhune, a 57-year-old dentist in Sparks, Nev., and a leading Paul activist in the state. "They just took the football and went home."

Even without Nevada, Paul will send at least a handful of delegates to the national convention. Outside the convention hall, his supporters have reserved a 15,000-seat basketball arena for a "mini-convention."

Paul hasn't endorsed, but it is clear whom he is not supporting.

"I do encourage all the alternatives, obviously, because I can't support either of the two candidates from the Republican or Democratic parties," Paul said this month in an interview on Revolution Radio, an Internet-based station run by his supporters. "I think that might send a message."

In interviews with a dozen Paul voters from around the West, anti-administration sentiment rang loudest. Most were newly active in politics but had been regular Republican voters. They said their activism began with opposition to the Bush administration's foreign policy.

As newcomers, they expressed little party allegiance and little concern that their third-party votes could benefit Obama, a candidate even further from their views than McCain.

"The notion is, let's just break the GOP because the people who are running and holding office in it aren't respecting what the constituents want," said Jay Weeldreyer, a Paul field director in Renton, Wash. "So, if we can just let them suffer a massive loss, then maybe that will get through to them."
 

SouthernGal

"Don't retreat...reload"
Quote from article:
"The McCain campaign says they expect many Paul voters to come home to the GOP before Nov. 4.

"At the end of the day, Republicans are going to vote for John McCain."


Well, they're in for a surprise, aren't they?
 

Fred

Middle of the road
Well, they're in for a surprise, aren't they?
It depends on the supporter. I work with someone who was a Ron Paul supporter (like I am), but he's planning to vote for McCain now and argues VEHEMENTLY with me that I'm going to help Obama win because I won't hold my nose and vote for McCain.
 

Worrier King

Deceased
Knock, Knock.

Who's there?

Ron Paul.

......


Until the dem/repub party is eradicated there is no choice other than the treasonous, generational decline which is all they offer.

And power seldom surrenders willingly.
 

SouthernGal

"Don't retreat...reload"
It depends on the supporter. I work with someone who was a Ron Paul supporter (like I am), but he's planning to vote for McCain now and argues VEHEMENTLY with me that I'm going to help Obama win because I won't hold my nose and vote for McCain.

To which I would reply (to your co-worker) "Too bad you didn't vote for Ron Paul in the primaries. If enough true conservatives had, then the GOP would have a candidate more exciting than the 'messiah', would show the true difference between dem's and conservatives, and would win the election hands down. Instead, the GOP has selected a tired old man who not much of anyone likes. Shame."
 

Troke

On TB every waking moment
"..."Too bad you didn't vote for Ron Paul in the primaries. If enough true conservatives had, then the GOP would have a candidate more exciting than the 'messiah' and would win the election hands down. Instead, the GOP has selected a tired old man who not much of anyone likes. Shame.".."

If RP had not tried the osmosis method of campaigning in new Hampshire, he might have made an impact. Who wants a candidate who does not bother to organize, just naturally expects a groundswell for his candidacy. It don't work that way.

"..."The notion is, let's just break the GOP because the people who are running and holding office in it aren't respecting what the constituents want," said Jay Weeldreyer, a Paul field director in Renton, Wash. "So, if we can just let them suffer a massive loss, then maybe that will get through to them." .."

That's called cutting off your nose to spite your face. Hilarious. 8 years of Obama stacking the courts and it won't matter what happens after that.
 

Bicycle Junkie

Resident dissident and troll
John McCain is not a fiscal conservative. He has said NOTHING about the rising NATIONAL DEBT and how he would plan to reverse it.
 

rhughe13

Heart of Dixie
The McCain campaign says they expect many Paul voters to come home to the GOP before Nov. 4.

"At the end of the day, Republicans are going to vote for John McCain. He's a Western candidate who understands water issues, land issues. He's a fiscal conservative," said Rick Gorka, a campaign spokesman. "His message is appealing to a broad spectrum of voters."

I've got bad news for Mr. Playdough boy. That liberal McCain can't possibly undo all the damage his socialism has caused to America for me to vote for him in November.
 

rhughe13

Heart of Dixie
That's called cutting off your nose to spite your face. Hilarious. 8 years of Obama stacking the courts and it won't matter what happens after that.

If that's whats required to expell fake conservatives, then I'm all for Obama.
 

BigBadBossyDog

Membership Revoked
Again. And Again: Remember Ross Perot.

If (when) Obama sits in the White House, I will place a huge amount of the blame on Paul supporters. The Paul supporters simply can't seem to see what horrible damage they will do when they vote for Paul. Voting for Ron Paul is essentially the same as voting for Obama.

Compare it to any other kind of disaster. Would you rather have a tornado blow your house down but your family stay safe or would you rather lose everything, including your family? A vote for Ron Paul will destroy not only your house but will kill your entire family, as well.

Hold your nose if you must, but please know and believe there really are greater degrees of evil.

People with the ability to think simply must know this. I hope. If we let history repeat itself, this time the country might not recover. Simple-minded stubborness will be the death of us all. How very juvenile and dangerous that will be for America! Ron Paul supporters remind me of children having temper tantrums.
 

rhughe13

Heart of Dixie
Again. And Again: Remember Ross Perot.

If (when) Obama sits in the White House, I will place a huge amount of the blame on Paul supporters. The Paul supporters simply can't seem to see what horrible damage they will do when they vote for Paul. Voting for Ron Paul is essentially the same as voting for Obama.

Compare it to any other kind of disaster. Would you rather have a tornado blow your house down but your family stay safe or would you rather lose everything, including your family? A vote for Ron Paul will destroy not only your house but will kill your entire family, as well.

Hold your nose if you must, but please know and believe there really are greater degrees of evil.

People with the ability to think simply must know this. I hope. If we let history repeat itself, this time the country might not recover. Simple-minded stubborness will be the death of us all. How very juvenile and dangerous that will be for America! Ron Paul supporters remind me of children having temper tantrums.

Attention Neo-Cons: AKA Fake Conservatives

Get ready for your life to suck after November, as much as it already does for a real conservative today.
 

BigBadBossyDog

Membership Revoked
You're correct. Party or individual beliefs have nothing to do with who will suffer and who won't. If you think you will remain unscathed, think again. It's not rocket science. The life of America is at stake, and there will not be levels of destruction. We will all lose.
 

rhughe13

Heart of Dixie
You're correct. Party or individual beliefs have nothing to do with who will suffer and who won't. If you think you will remain unscathed, think again. It's not rocket science. The life of America is at stake, and there will not be levels of destruction. We will all lose.

Conservatives have already lost. McCain or Obama wield the same results for a conservative. It's called failure.

The remaining neocons- AKA fake conservatives are the ones that will be getting a wake up call come November.
 

BigBadBossyDog

Membership Revoked
You have tunnel vision. Look at the entire picture.

I don't like McCain and never have. But I despise Obama and I'm smart enough to see what will happen if Obama and Pelosi are running the country.

Again, temper tantrums. If I get robbed at gunpoint, I hope the robber spares my life. With Obama, there's no chance I'll survive the attack.

If you didn't learn anything from the Perot/Bush/Clinton snafu, you're beyond hope of ever learning anything. This time, much, much more is at stake.
 

rhughe13

Heart of Dixie
You have tunnel vision. Look at the entire picture.

I don't like McCain and never have. But I despise Obama and I'm smart enough to see what will happen if Obama and Pelosi are running the country.

Again, temper tantrums. If I get robbed at gunpoint, I hope the robber spares my life. With Obama, there's no chance I'll survive the attack.

If you didn't learn anything from the Perot/Bush/Clinton snafu, you're beyond hope of ever learning anything. This time, much, much more is at stake.

Go find a nice place to be scared with your little scared group. We'll send you some klenex and prozac when it's all over.
 

BigBadBossyDog

Membership Revoked
Oh, believe me, you won't have any to spare. In fact you won't have the money left over after skyrocketing taxes to buy your own, much less share.
 

Hacker

Computer Hacking Pirate
Here in Washington, I watched first hand the Republican party break their own rules during the convention to get McCain as many delegates as they could. I watched the party marginalize Ron Paul and his supporters at every turn.

And they expect support from us? I believe that most Paul supporters will vote Libertarian or Constitution party.

This party is corrupt and deserves to die. With McCain at its head, I believe it will . . . Here in the West, McCain is toast. . . . JMHO.
 

Aardaerimus

Anunnaku
Well, they lost my vote until further notice - and I'm sure there's plenty more like me.

Once you wake up it's nigh impossible to force yourself back to sleep...

I've seen what they are, and they will NOT have my vote. I refuse to vote AGAINST anyone, rather I will henceforth only vote my conscience.

Currently, my conscience is telling me that the establishment, as it stands, and the federal government are the bane of all that is freedom.

I am no longer blind to their outright lies, fear mongering, and hypocrisy.

The GOP, in its current state, can roast in hades and the liberal twits that continue to sell us out can join them!
 

Troke

On TB every waking moment
Boy! These RP types so solicitous of their purity flat refuse to GI.

One vote the other way in SCOTUS and we would have had:

1. You have an individual right to bear arms.

2. DEECEE has the right to bar you from bearing them.

One vote. And you guys want to put Obama in there? Surely you jest.

Unfortunately, I don't trust McCain that much either. Being a maverick, he is capable of doing incredibly stupid things.

But he is a guess, Obama is a sure thing.
 

skoaldiak

WWG1WGA
As stated before, you LOE voters repeat after me.... 2+2=5

mccain and obama will take us all to hell in a handbasket. obama will drive straight there while mccain might take a bit longer to put flowers and streamers on the basket making you think he's helping.

THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THEM.

Even though Nevada gop screwed RP behind closed doors by hand picking their delegates, I would still love to see RP get nominated from the floor during the convention. :smkd:

hmmmm, maybe today is the day I go to switch my party affiliation away from Republican.

tis a shame, as it isnt I who will be leaving the party but the party who has left me, and yes Im from the west
 

Dennis Olson

Chief Curmudgeon
_______________
Even if the numbers of such dissenters are small, in tight contests in key Western states they could spoil McCain's chances, experts say.

I don't give a SH*T about McPain's chances. Nor Osama's. The Ron Paul supporters are the only true American patriots left in this country.

It's just more "politics of fear;" vote for my scummy traitor, because the OTHER scummy traitor is worse. (Since they're BOTH scummy traitors, I don't consider one "worse" than the other. They both represent the destruction of America.)

JMHO
 

Aardaerimus

Anunnaku
Boy! These RP types so solicitous of their purity flat refuse to GI.

One vote the other way in SCOTUS and we would have had:

1. You have an individual right to bear arms.

2. DEECEE has the right to bar you from bearing them.

One vote. And you guys want to put Obama in there? Surely you jest.

Unfortunately, I don't trust McCain that much either. Being a maverick, he is capable of doing incredibly stupid things.

But he is a guess, Obama is a sure thing.

The right to arms is not the only important issue on the table.

The whole purpose of that right was to prevent tyrannical government from overtaking us - not just for hunting and shooting pop cans. The tyrant overtook us anyway, and can police every aspect of our lives completely unfettered and above the law of the constitution.

We never raised those arms, and now they've been throttled back and regulated to the point of near uselessnes for any military pupose as the constitution declared.

The "right to bear arms" is now a mere pacifier to make the ignorant believe they're still free, even though they're now constitutionally useless.

Still, there are other looming issues that neither candidate chooses to acknowledge, like our financial situation, global policing, inciting anger and disdain abroad, more welfare, more nanny state, more taxation, etc, etc...
 

rhughe13

Heart of Dixie
Boy! These RP types so solicitous of their purity flat refuse to GI.

One vote the other way in SCOTUS and we would have had:

1. You have an individual right to bear arms.

2. DEECEE has the right to bar you from bearing them.

One vote. And you guys want to put Obama in there? Surely you jest.

Unfortunately, I don't trust McCain that much either. Being a maverick, he is capable of doing incredibly stupid things.

But he is a guess, Obama is a sure thing.

No jest Mr. Pest.

Like I said, it doesn't bother me one way or the other. It only bothers you.
 

SouthernGal

"Don't retreat...reload"
Again. And Again: Remember Ross Perot.

If (when) Obama sits in the White House, I will place a huge amount of the blame on Paul supporters. The Paul supporters simply can't seem to see what horrible damage they will do when they vote for Paul. Voting for Ron Paul is essentially the same as voting for Obama.

And when the messiah is sitting in the WH, Ron Paul supporters will be blaming the idiots who cared more for (fill in the blank) than the CONSTITUTION SUPPORTING Ron Paul. So, turn your argument to yourself. I will not hold my nose and vote for the amnesty loving mccain.
 

Troke

On TB every waking moment
"...Like I said, it doesn't bother me one way or the other. It only bothers you..."

Ah yes, but if Obama gets in with a 60+ vote Senate, I guarantee that you will be bothered.
__________________
 

Monkeywrench

Land Owner
Again. And Again: Remember Ross Perot.

If (when) Obama sits in the White House, I will place a huge amount of the blame on Paul supporters. The Paul supporters simply can't seem to see what horrible damage they will do when they vote for Paul. Voting for Ron Paul is essentially the same as voting for Obama.

Compare it to any other kind of disaster. Would you rather have a tornado blow your house down but your family stay safe or would you rather lose everything, including your family? A vote for Ron Paul will destroy not only your house but will kill your entire family, as well.

Hold your nose if you must, but please know and believe there really are greater degrees of evil.

People with the ability to think simply must know this. I hope. If we let history repeat itself, this time the country might not recover. Simple-minded stubborness will be the death of us all. How very juvenile and dangerous that will be for America! Ron Paul supporters remind me of children having temper tantrums.

It's opinions like this that has our country in the position that it's in. If people would not listen to the MSM and actually use their heads and vote their hearts things would change. But just step in line with all of the other sheeple and vote for the lesser of two evils. Stand up for a change and things will change. Stand up and be heard, not part of the herd.
 

rhughe13

Heart of Dixie
"...Like I said, it doesn't bother me one way or the other. It only bothers you..."

Ah yes, but if Obama gets in with a 60+ vote Senate, I guarantee that you will be bothered.
__________________

Wow a neo-con/fake conservative and a palm reader.

Those are good cash under the table jobs too. Maybe I should learn that talent too, so I can give all those neo-cons that have fallen off the deep end come November some hope.

Lets see "Hope for America" Nice ring to it.
 

Hippie Chic

Inactive
Again. And Again: Remember Ross Perot.

If (when) Obama sits in the White House, I will place a huge amount of the blame on Paul supporters. The Paul supporters simply can't seem to see what horrible damage they will do when they vote for Paul. Voting for Ron Paul is essentially the same as voting for Obama.

Compare it to any other kind of disaster. Would you rather have a tornado blow your house down but your family stay safe or would you rather lose everything, including your family? A vote for Ron Paul will destroy not only your house but will kill your entire family, as well.

Hold your nose if you must, but please know and believe there really are greater degrees of evil.

People with the ability to think simply must know this. I hope. If we let history repeat itself, this time the country might not recover. Simple-minded stubborness will be the death of us all. How very juvenile and dangerous that will be for America! Ron Paul supporters remind me of children having temper tantrums.

While I am a Ron Paul supporter. I am not so naive as to think that we have a choice anymore. The elections are rigged, whether there is a landslide vote for McCain, Ron Paul or the Libertarian candidate........guess who gets in regardless?

The one "they" have been grooming from the get go.......Barak Hussein Obama.
 

sy32478

Veteran Member
How badly has the media and the so called "two-party" system screwed up your thinking that you are willing to vote for someone who you don't want to be president just because he has an R after his name? If McCain were running on the D ticket, you would be braying about saving the Republic by holding our noses and voting against him.

This is classic dialectic where you are being led to vote for a bad candidate by being offered what appears to be a bad candidate and an even worse candidate. Guess what - there are more than two choices and enough people disaffected from party politics that a "third party" candidate can win.

Guess what sparky, I am voting for someone who I actually WANT to be our leader, and who knows what the country is and should be and who shares my ideals. I feel sorry for those of you in a mental straight jacket who cannot bring yourselves to vote for who you want, but only the candidates chosen by TPTB. It is a pathetic reminder of how far the Republic has fallen.

The Republican party hacks all whine about the damage Ron Paul voters have done / will do. Who is to blame for putting up and promoting such a crappy candidates as McCain (twice) and leaving us no good choice? Voting for him is giving the party your stamp of approval that this is the man/values which you support and will guarantee you more of the same in the future.

The Ross Perot example, it is being misapplied. The Ross Perot issue should have been a warning, not to the voters, but to the dumbsh*t Republican Party, that voters don't want a Democrat Lite candidate. I would ask if you think that they have learned from that lesson, but the answer is painfully obvious.

Of course, they are going to have another opportunity to learn this lesson in November, but it will pass through their heads like winds through a cave.

Save your time McCain supporters, if the lamestream media and the Republicrats haven't convinced us to vote for their candidates, your web forum entreaties certainly aren't up to the task either. We do, however, appreciate your invitation to choose one of the two sh*t sandwiches on the main menu, but we cannot stomach it.
 
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Dennis Olson

Chief Curmudgeon
_______________
Yes BBBD, there ARE degrees of evil. So which one are YOU voting for, Stalin or Pol Pot...?

:kk1:

We do, however, appreciate your invitation to choose one of the two sh*t sandwiches on the main menu, but we cannot stomach it.

+1 :applaud:
 

FREEBIRD

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Been there, done that, what did it get us? I held my nose and voted for Bush to keep the Democrats out and I got a failing economy, war, Homeland Security, and the Patriot Act. That worked real well (not).
 

Troke

On TB every waking moment
"...Wow a neo-con/fake conservative and a palm reader.

Those are good cash under the table jobs too. Maybe I should learn that talent too, so I can give all those neo-cons that have fallen off the deep end come November some hope.

Lets see "Hope for America" Nice ring to it..."


Well, I did vote for Stevenson, Kennedy, Humphrey and then choked on McGovern and all that followed. So that makes me neo-something, I guess.

But then having sullied myself that way, I can no longer claim political purity like many others here can. So I go for McCain because Obama is much worse IMHO.

You go ahead and vote political purity. Has a nice ring to it. Might even make history by voting in the man least like what you stand for (Or I think you stand for). And its affect on you will be zero because you are politically pure? Why do I douibt that?
 

Kay

Inactive
If conservative Republicans vote for John McCain, they will never again have representation in the U.S. government. They will have lost their voice in the party.

It isn't worth it.

Vote for Chuck Baldwin, Bob Barr or Ron Paul. This may be the last chance in your lifetime to be heard.
 

45nut

Inactive
Dennis I still can't believe you met with the gasbag troke. I would sooner eat with chuck shumer or rosie odonnell since I would be holding my nose with one hand and flipping them off with the other.

exercising my 1st Amendment rights you know.
 

Troke

On TB every waking moment
1. I was sober at the time.

2. DO was wearing his RP cap which, as we all know, wards off evil spirits.
 

pops88

Girls with Guns Member
I was raised with the mantra of vote your conscience. That's what being able to vote for elected officials is all about. We've become like all the other corrupt countries that only offer the people one choice. It only appears that we have two choices, and they allow a couple in the mix to make it look like there is truly a choice, knowing the candidates don't stand a chance. It's like going to an ice cream store offering Vanilla, French Vanilla, Liver, or Garlic flavor. As noted before, one just takes us to hell faster than the other. And even if by a miracle, someone else gets the vote, what is recorded in the black box voting machines will be the person predetermined to win. Am I too cynical? Regardless, I intend to vote my conscious. I have too many relatives that have fought for me to have that right.
 
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