WAR Regional conflict brewing in the Mediterranean

Plain Jane

Has No Life - Lives on TB
This is what has come of Hillary Clinton, Samantha Powers, and Barack Obama's "Duty to Protect ". I hope that the screams and agonies of the suffering haunt those three through eternity.

I know that I have a dumb question here but read through a couple pages of the Libya thread and couldn't find the answer. Do we know what side Eric Prince's group (used to be Blackwater) decided to hire out to ?
 

Dozdoats

On TB every waking moment

Erik Prince on Syria: America Needs To Call B.S. On Failed Generals; We Have No More Pattons Or Grants
Posted By Tim Hains
On Date October 11, 2019
Erik Prince on Syria: America Needs To Call B.S. On Failed Generals; We Have No More Pattons Or Grants

Blackwater Founder Erik Prince told FNC's Tucker Carlson Thursday night that military orthodoxy failed in Afghanistan and Iraq and that no one in Washington is willing to think outside of the box on "hybrid" ways to continue a U.S. military presence in Syria.

"The president's instincts are right to note have a permanent American presence in Eastern Syria, that is not in the interest fo the United States," he said. "On the flip side, abandoning the Kurs is not the best idea. But there are other ways to do this. The perfect analogy is the Flying Tigers: when you had Japan in the 1930s bombing the hell out of Chinese cities, America was not going to be involved. But FDR, a beloved Democrat, allowed American Marines, Navy, and Army pilots to go work for a private company that became the Flying Tigers. and they defended Chinese cities against Japanese aggression before the United States entered the war."


"So now you could do the same thing," he said about the Syrian Kurds. "They have 400,000 barrels of oil per day that they could sell and export that could pay for effectively a contracted peacekeeping force that would keep the ISIS guys at bay, that would deter the Iranians and the Turks from rolling in. It doesn't require active-duty U.S. forces. The Syrian Kurds could pay for their own defense. But nobody in the Pentagon, nobody in this clique of the Beltway wants to think outside the box and give the president different options."

It's "more money and more troops or nothing," he said. "But there are a lot of hybrid ways to do this, but no one is willing to think outside the box."

"We have a great all-volunteer force, but the fact is that 0.5% of the U.S. population serves in the military, maybe another 3-5% knows someone who serves. Leaving 95% of Ameria with no real contact with the military. So no one feels empowered to call B.S. on the generals on this national security point."

"Everyone says they support our troops and thank you for their service, if they really want to support their troops, demand better. Demand that their sacrifice not be wasted. That we not just muddle along as some of the generals have called for," Prince said. "We have the finest officers in the world, but it seems like once they become generals it is a self-licking ice cream cone of who gets promoted and who gets approved to join that club. No one thinks outside the box. We have no George Pattons anymore. We have no Ulysses S. Grants. We have none of the swashbuckling generals that actually made things happen."

"We don't have a fantastic record of finishing wars since World War Two," he noted
 

jward

passin' thru
This is what has come of Hillary Clinton, Samantha Powers, and Barack Obama's "Duty to Protect ". I hope that the screams and agonies of the suffering haunt those three through eternity.

I know that I have a dumb question here but read through a couple pages of the Libya thread and couldn't find the answer. Do we know what side Eric Prince's group (used to be Blackwater) decided to hire out to ?
Agree 1000% w/ re: to hoping the agony engendered haunts the soulless skin sacks.

And I just read/posted on where the formerly known as blackwater were hangin these days, but my memory is on break...
 

jward

passin' thru


EndGameWW3

@EndGameWW3

·
11h

The name of the group that U.S. mercenaries are from fighting in Libya is the Frontier Services Group. This use to be the Blackwater Group. Eric Prince is still in charge even though the name has changed.
 

night driver

ESFP adrift in INTJ sea
Doz, I dunno if he was there when you were but as I understand it, he came out of yer Schoolhouse with a full understanding of what he's talking about. Which means he's dangerous to the current crop of Perfumed Princes. But he is ALSO (unfortunately) a pretty much fully functioning Deep State Adjunct.

SOMETIMES ya gotta go with the devil ya know... WITH the track record. (IIRC, BW's Personal Security Details never lost a Principal...though they were kinda over the top about HOW they got that record...)
 

danielboon

Has No Life - Lives on TB
The US Congress voted Tuesday to lift a decades-old arms embargo on Cyprus, defying Turkey by seeking warmer ties at a time of renewed tensions.

The Senate approved the measure as part of a massive defense spending bill that passed 86 to eight and already went through the House of Representatives, with President Donald Trump likely to sign it.

ADVERTISING


The United States imposed an embargo on the full island in 1987 with an aim to prevent an arms race and encourage a peaceful settlement between the Greek majority and Turkish minority.

Critics say the step has been counterproductive by forcing Cyprus to seek other partners while Turkey, a NATO member, has stationed forces in northern Cyprus since its invasion in 1974.

Democratic Senator Robert Menendez and Republican Senator Marco Rubio spearheaded the effort, saying they also wanted to encourage growing cooperation between Cyprus, Greece and Israel.

"With Cyprus seeking to deepen its strategic partnership with the United States, it is in our national security and economic interest to lift this outdated decades-long arms restrictions that are no longer helping US security objectives," Menendez said after initial approval of the lifting of the embargo.

While the two Cypriot communities have made progress in improving relations, tensions have spiked over an accord between Turkey and Libya for newly discovered gas reserves in the eastern Mediterranean, undercutting claims by Greece and the internationally recognized Republic of Cyprus.

US officials have been concerned that the ban has brought EU member Cyprus closer to Russia, with the island in 2015 signing off on an access deal to its ports.

Under the new act, the United States will still restrict certain sensitive technologies to Cyprus unless the US certifies that the island is denying Russia military vessels port access for refueling and servicing.

In a standoff in 1997, Turkey threatened an attack on Cyprus if it went ahead with installing the advanced S-300 missile defense system from Russia.

The controversy is now a relic of another time, with Turkey facing the threat of sanctions for buying the S-400 system from Russia despite its NATO membership.

Representatives of Turkey and the self-styled Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus had lobbied against the lifting of the embargo, arguing that Congress was giving the green light to an arms race.

Turkey invaded in 1974 in response to a coup engineered by the then military regime in Athens that aimed to unite Cyprus with Greece.

© 2019 AFP
 

Normallguy

"just a human bein'"
Well this certainly complicates things.
How many different "alliances" already exist and how many will form?
Of course different factions in each government may have different ideas.
War IN the med. Hellava place to start one.

JefFREE
 

Ragnarok

On and On, South of Heaven
Daniel 11:40-43 - " And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over. He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon. He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape. But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps."
 

Plain Jane

Has No Life - Lives on TB

Erik Prince on Syria: America Needs To Call B.S. On Failed Generals; We Have No More Pattons Or Grants
Posted By Tim Hains
On Date October 11, 2019
Erik Prince on Syria: America Needs To Call B.S. On Failed Generals; We Have No More Pattons Or Grants

Blackwater Founder Erik Prince told FNC's Tucker Carlson Thursday night that military orthodoxy failed in Afghanistan and Iraq and that no one in Washington is willing to think outside of the box on "hybrid" ways to continue a U.S. military presence in Syria.

"The president's instincts are right to note have a permanent American presence in Eastern Syria, that is not in the interest fo the United States," he said. "On the flip side, abandoning the Kurs is not the best idea. But there are other ways to do this. The perfect analogy is the Flying Tigers: when you had Japan in the 1930s bombing the hell out of Chinese cities, America was not going to be involved. But FDR, a beloved Democrat, allowed American Marines, Navy, and Army pilots to go work for a private company that became the Flying Tigers. and they defended Chinese cities against Japanese aggression before the United States entered the war."


"So now you could do the same thing," he said about the Syrian Kurds. "They have 400,000 barrels of oil per day that they could sell and export that could pay for effectively a contracted peacekeeping force that would keep the ISIS guys at bay, that would deter the Iranians and the Turks from rolling in. It doesn't require active-duty U.S. forces. The Syrian Kurds could pay for their own defense. But nobody in the Pentagon, nobody in this clique of the Beltway wants to think outside the box and give the president different options."

It's "more money and more troops or nothing," he said. "But there are a lot of hybrid ways to do this, but no one is willing to think outside the box."

"We have a great all-volunteer force, but the fact is that 0.5% of the U.S. population serves in the military, maybe another 3-5% knows someone who serves. Leaving 95% of Ameria with no real contact with the military. So no one feels empowered to call B.S. on the generals on this national security point."

"Everyone says they support our troops and thank you for their service, if they really want to support their troops, demand better. Demand that their sacrifice not be wasted. That we not just muddle along as some of the generals have called for," Prince said. "We have the finest officers in the world, but it seems like once they become generals it is a self-licking ice cream cone of who gets promoted and who gets approved to join that club. No one thinks outside the box. We have no George Pattons anymore. We have no Ulysses S. Grants. We have none of the swashbuckling generals that actually made things happen."

"We don't have a fantastic record of finishing wars since World War Two," he noted
I have been thinking about Erik Prince's position here and see a flaw with his argument. World War II pitted the alliances of the then world's superpowers against each other, the Allies vs. Axis. Smaller nations in Europe and Asia were caught up in that struggle.

What I see here is Islam turning in on itself, a process that should have and would have occurred decades ago but for oil and US delusions of "Great Game " grandeur ". Circumstances and events may be moving too quickly for them to get their act together as this confab seems to indicate. They can't even get some of their major players to the table.


NEWS
DECEMBER 18, 2019 / 12:44 AM / UPDATED AN HOUR AGO
Muslim leaders gather in Malaysia for summit shunned by Saudi

Joseph Sipalan
5 MIN READ

KUALA LUMPUR (Reuters) - Leaders and senior representatives from some 20 Muslim nations flocked to the Malaysian capital on Wednesday to discuss issues agitating Muslims globally at a summit Saudi Arabia decided to snub, and Pakistan ducked out of attending.


No agenda for the Kuala Lumpur Summit has been released, but it could address age-old disputes in Kashmir and the Middle East, the conflicts in Syria and Yemen, the plight of Myanmar’s Rohingya Muslim minority, and mounting outrage over China’s camps for Uighur Muslims in Xinjiang - a subject that will doubtless upset Beijing - as well as how to counter the spread of Islamophobia in the world.
Two of the world’s most outspoken leaders, Malaysia’s Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad and Turkey’s President Tayyip Erdogan will be giving their views during the four-day summit, which begins with a welcome dinner on Wednesday and wraps up on Saturday.
Pakistan’s Prime Minister Imran Khan, who along with Mahathir and Erdogan had been a prime mover behind the summit, made a belated decision to skip the meeting.

Some Pakistani officials, unnamed because they are not authorized to speak to the media, said Khan pulled out under pressure from close ally Saudi Arabia, though media reports say his officials deny that was the reason why the world’s second largest Muslim country won’t be represented.

Iranian President Hassan Rouhani and Qatar’s Emir Sheikh Tamim bin Hamid Al-Thani, whose countries have tense relations with Saudi Arabia, are also attending.
Explaining its decision to stay away, Saudi Arabia said the summit was the wrong forum for matters of importance to the world’s 1.75 billion Muslims, though some analysts suspected the Kingdom feared being diplomatically isolated by regional rivals Iran, Qatar and Turkey.
Saudi state news agency SPA reported that on a call with Mahathir on Tuesday, Saudi King Salman reaffirmed that such issues should be discussed through the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (OIC).

A Saudi source said Saudi Arabia was invited but would only attend it the meeting was held under the auspices of the OIC.
“They are very concerned about it,” the source said of the summit, declining to be named as he was not authorized to talk to media.

The Saudi government’s center for international communication did not respond to a request for comment.
The absence of Saudi Arabia, the birthplace of Islam, whose king also hold the title of Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques in Mecca and Medina demonstrates some of the divisions in the Muslim world.

The issue is that you’ve got blocs,” said James Dorsey, a senior fellow at S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies and Middle East Institute in Singapore. “You’ve got a Saudi-UAE bloc, Turkey-Qatari bloc, and Pakistan in the middle trying to hedge their bets.”
Indonesia, the country with the world’s largest Muslim population, would be represented by Vice-President Ma’ruf Amin, a cleric overseeing the country’s fight against radicalization and terrorism.

Even as delegations were arriving in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysian officials were unable to provide a final list of who would be attending. Mahathir’s office said that invitations had been sent to all 56 OIC member states, but officials said only about 20 were sending delegations, and fewer would be led by heads of state.
Defending the summit, Mahathir’s office issued a statement saying there was no intention to create a “new bloc as alluded to by some of its critics”.

“In addition, the Summit is not a platform to discuss about religion or religious affairs but specifically to address the state of affairs of the Muslim Ummah,” it said, using the Arabic term for community.
Speaking to Reuters last week, Mahathir expressed frustration with the OIC’s inability to forge a united front and act decisively. During that interview, the Malaysian leader also raised the possibility that the alleged mistreatment of Muslim Uighurs in China’s Xinjiang would be discussed.

Beijing describes the camps where Uighur Muslims are being held as “vocational training centers”, while critics say they are mass internment camps.
Additional reporting Stephen Kalin in Riyadh and Asif Shahzad in Islamabad; Editing by Simon Cameron-Moore
 

danielboon

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Turkish opposition sounds warning on Libya deal

Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan meets with Libya's internationally recognized Prime Minister Fayez Al-Sarraj in Istanbul, Turkey. (Reuters/File)
Short Url
Updated 17 December 2019
MENEKSE TOKYAY
December 17, 201901:14
1421

  • Expanded security pact breaches UN arms embargo, CHP legislators claim
ANKARA: Turkey’s opposition Republican People’s Party (CHP) has criticized an expanded security pact between Ankara and Libya, claiming it breaches a UN arms embargo.
The CHP on Monday lodged a dissenting opinion on the controversial deal, which is expected to be signed off by Turkish parliamentarians this week.
Although unlikely to affect the deal, the opposition move raises further questions about the expansion of military cooperation between the two countries.
Opposition parliamentarians claim the deal contradicts UN Security Council rulings on supplying arms to Libya.
The security agreement, which includes provisions for launching a “quick reaction force” if requested by Tripoli, was brought to Parliament on Saturday night.
Under the deal Turkey will also supply material, training and planning support to Libya.
The provisions on military training and technical support are seen by many as a way to permit Ankara to send troops to Libya.
The CHP said that the sending of materials and equipment to Libya would contravene a UN Security Council resolution imposing an arms embargo on the country.
The opposition party argues that if Turkey takes part in the unfolding civil conflict in Libya through proxy forces or by direct intervention, it will add to instability in the country.
It claims the use of “guest personnel” and “guest students” is a covert way to deploy military forces in Libya.
The CHP also criticized the financial burden the pact will impose on Turkey at a time when the government has called on people to avoid using foreign currency.
The opposition also issued a warning on the exchange of classified information, documents, defense and security materials under the security agreement.
“It is extremely dangerous for the domestic security of Turkey to share secret information with a political actor under war circumstances. The main point is that the conflict may spiral out of the control immediately,” the CHP said.
The party also criticized the logistical support elaborated in the deal, saying “it would open the way for the government to support some jihadists organizations fighting on the ground with the Libyan government.”
The dissenting opinion was led by five CHP parliamentarians, Unal Cevikoz, Oguz Kaan Salici, Haluk Koc, Utku Cakirozer and Yunus Emre.
Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said last week that Turkey would consider sending troops to Libya if requested by Tripoli.
“This isn’t covered by the UN arms embargo. They can invite us,” he said during televised remarks last Monday.
 

danielboon

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Turkey’s expanded push in Libya sparks concerns in Tunisia

Western Libya is a critical economic and security valve for Tunisia.
Wednesday 11/12/2019
Hard questions. Tunisian President Kais Saied (R) meets Libyan Prime Minister Fayez al-Sarraj at the Presidential Palace in Carthage, December 10. (Tunisian Presidency)

Hard questions. Tunisian President Kais Saied (R) meets Libyan Prime Minister Fayez al-Sarraj at the Presidential Palace in Carthage, December 10. (Tunisian Presidency)
TUNIS - Military cooperation and maritime demarcation deals signed by Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan and Libyan Prime Minister Fayez al-Sarraj sparked concerns in Tunisia about regional tensions.
Tunisia maintained close links with Libya’s internationally recognised Government of National Accord (GNA) out of geographical necessity. Islamist militias and tribes allied with the GNA largely control the western areas of Libya adjacent to Tunisia.
Western Libya is a critical economic and security valve for Tunisia. Many families in southern Tunisia make a living off the informal economy that relies on the smuggling of heavily subsidised goods from Libya, including oil.
Islamists’ influence in Tunisia’s government and close ties between the GNA and the Muslim Brotherhood, as well as the support for the GNA by radical Islamists, have complicated links between Tunis and Tripoli.
Now Tunisia faces even harder questions after Tripoli’s expanded military and security cooperation with Turkey. In an agreement between the two states, Libya endorsed Turkey’s claims to maritime and gas drilling rights in the Eastern Mediterranean.
Tripoli’s government has received Turkish military support, including drones and troop transport vehicles, as it fought the eastern-based Libyan National Army since April.
Tunisian President Kais Saied met with Sarraj on December 10 in the highest-level encounter since the Turkey-Libya military deal was signed November 27.
“Libya’s matters are a Tunisian concern,” Saied said after the meeting, adding that the “two sides discussed lifting all the hurdles to movement of people and goods between Tunisia and Libya by land and sea and avoiding the closure of the border gate of Ras Jedir.”
Saied renewed his commitment to “a comprehensive political solution that serves the interests of the Libyan people while he insisted that Libya’s matters are a Tunisia’s matter,” said a presidential statement.
Saied’s advisers, many of whom have first-hand security and diplomatic experience with the Libyan conflict, indicated that the Libyan conflict is a foreign policy priority for Tunisia, as did Saied’s predecessor, the late President Beji Caid Essebsi.
However, political leaders and analysts in Tunis said Turkey’s manoeuvres in Libya are forcing Tunisia to make difficult choices because the deals angered the European Union and NATO, from whom Tunisia receives crucial military and security support.
The Turkish push in Libya is likely to change the alignment of forces in the Libyan conflict and ratchet up the support they receive from abroad. Experts said this could involve more security risks for Tunisia.
The shift in the Libyan conflict is also likely to test Tunisia’s political stability, where the Islamist Ennahda Movement is expanding its power and advocating a foreign policy vision at odds with its political rivals.
Ennahda eyes Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan as a symbol of the “revival of the Muslim Ummah,” but critics say his intervention in Syria, Iraq and Libya revives bitter memories of Ottoman Empire’s colonisation of Arab lands.
“(The) security of Libya’s neighbours is in danger as Erdogan threatens to expand intervention in Libya,” wrote Tunisia’s Alchourouk newspaper after Saied met with Sarraj.
In addition to the maritime accord, Turkey and Libya signed an expanded security and military cooperation agreement.
Erdogan said the military pact granted Turkey the right to deploy troops in Libya at the Tripoli-based government’s request. He asserted that this would not violate a UN arms embargo on Libya, which has been mired in conflict for years but has seen increased violence since April over control of Tripoli.
“On the issue of sending soldiers… If Libya makes such a request from us, we can send our personnel there, especially after striking the military security agreement,” Erdogan said in a televised appearance December 10.
“With the new line drawn (by the maritime agreement), we will take steps to protect the interests of Libya, Turkey and the TRNC (Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus). This is in line with international law,” he said.
This means Libya could be the first Arab country to be dragged into the stormy maritime dispute between Turkey, Greece and Cyprus.
Turkey and the GNA clinched the natural gas drilling deal last month in a step Ankara said was aimed at defending its rights in the region. The deal drew the ire of Greece and Cyprus, with whom tensions were high because of Turkish gas exploration off the coast of Cyprus. The European Union has readied sanctions against Turkey in response.
The area where Turkey and Libya have drawn their maritime borders is not far south of the Greek island of Crete.
“With this new agreement between Turkey and Libya, we can hold joint exploration operations in these exclusive economic zones that we determined. There is no problem,” Erdogan said.
“Other international actors cannot carry out exploration operations in these areas Turkey drew (up) with this accord without getting permission. Greek Cyprus, Egypt, Greece and Israel cannot establish a gas transmission line without first getting permission from Turkey.”
Former Tunisian presidential adviser Mohsen Marzouk said Tunisia’s National Security Council should convene to discuss the issue. He suggested that Tunisia could face a turning point in its relations with the Islamist-controlled government in Tripoli and must adapt its alliances to the shift prompted by the Turkish intervention.
“The Libya deal with Turkey requires that we contact our three partners: the European Union, Arab partners and NATO. We enjoy the status of strategic partner with NATO and this status allows us to get weapons and support from our allies. We cannot afford to lose it,” he added.
The pan-Arab nationalist People’s Movement, one of Tunisia’s main opposition parties, urged a “strong reaction” from the presidency and the government against the Libyan deals with Turkey.
“This accord constitutes direct danger to Tunisia, which is under the threat of the terrorist groups that are protected by the Tripoli government and by the government of Turkey,” it said.
Retired senior security officer Ali Zramdini said: “Turkey is attempting to assert its dominance in the region and it finds a weak ally in the southern Mediterranean, the Tripoli government that made concessions from Libya’s maritime sovereignty in return for Turkey’s military support to withstand the offensive of the Libyan National Army led by Field-Marshal Khalifa Haftar.
“This accord is a real threat with its strategic and military dimensions to all the Mediterranean countries, including France’s border and the Strait of Sicily, which is adjacent to Tunisia,” he added.
“Sarraj is only interested in maintaining his hold on the government and he is implementing the agenda of the Muslim Brotherhood, which does not recognise the national sovereignty of the nation-states,” said Zramdini.
 
Top