Question about green manures
- Thread starter Flagwaver
- Start date
Flagwaver, I'm not quite sure but...
"Dock" could mean a variety of things. If you mean buckwheat, then yes, this can be a good green manure. What I think of as dock is a different species, and although perhaps related to buckwheat is not something to encourage.
Neither, as far as I know, will add much of any nitrogen to the soil the way a legume crop could, but it would represent additional organic matter to contribute towards humus and roots which would help break up the soil.
As far as when to till, depends on what you are talking about and perhaps where you live. If no one responds here, then answers can usually readily be found at the forums at www.gardenweb.com.
"Dock" could mean a variety of things. If you mean buckwheat, then yes, this can be a good green manure. What I think of as dock is a different species, and although perhaps related to buckwheat is not something to encourage.
Neither, as far as I know, will add much of any nitrogen to the soil the way a legume crop could, but it would represent additional organic matter to contribute towards humus and roots which would help break up the soil.
As far as when to till, depends on what you are talking about and perhaps where you live. If no one responds here, then answers can usually readily be found at the forums at www.gardenweb.com.
Is this the plant you are talking about?
http://www.weedalert.com/weed_pages/wa_curly_dock.htm
If it is, this plant has a very nasty tap root that surely grows to the outskirts of Hades!
My understanding of green manure is that you want plants that when tilled under will rot down and make a loser/richer soil. The leaves of dock will rot down but the root is so long, you will have difficulty killing it just by tilling. The plant will return year after year from the root. If I were intending to use a plant as a green manure, I would sow rye or oats. When the plant grows, but before it has reached the grain or seed stage, then it should be tilled under. I would think it is best to do this in the fall so the plants have time to grow but not produce a crop of grain.
http://www.weedalert.com/weed_pages/wa_curly_dock.htm
If it is, this plant has a very nasty tap root that surely grows to the outskirts of Hades!
My understanding of green manure is that you want plants that when tilled under will rot down and make a loser/richer soil. The leaves of dock will rot down but the root is so long, you will have difficulty killing it just by tilling. The plant will return year after year from the root. If I were intending to use a plant as a green manure, I would sow rye or oats. When the plant grows, but before it has reached the grain or seed stage, then it should be tilled under. I would think it is best to do this in the fall so the plants have time to grow but not produce a crop of grain.
My back is already beginning to hurt.
Alright. That's it. I've got enough to feed a Chinese army. I mean it's covering about a half acre.
How do I get it out of my area where I've already planted all my luscious clovers? It popped up good after I'd already planted my beeloving clover.
I don't want to use an herbicide obviously.
Drat.
I do appreciate you folks' help.
Maybe I'll have to cut it and spread some poison on the stem so it sucks it down to the root. And to think. I'm into organic gardening.
Alright. That's it. I've got enough to feed a Chinese army. I mean it's covering about a half acre.
How do I get it out of my area where I've already planted all my luscious clovers? It popped up good after I'd already planted my beeloving clover.
I don't want to use an herbicide obviously.
Drat.
I do appreciate you folks' help.
Maybe I'll have to cut it and spread some poison on the stem so it sucks it down to the root. And to think. I'm into organic gardening.
Flagwaver- so am I! But I'm also a certified Pesticide Applicator, and I spent several hours twice this spring running around with a backpack sprayer full of RoundUp and spraying too many burdock and yellow dock plants!
Sometimes it's the only way you can deal with them
Dock is especially nasty mostly because it seems to be able to set seeds after you've tilled it under! If it's starting to put seed on- AT ALL- your best bet is to somehow (know someone with a sickle bar mower?) cut it off and rake it up and either dump it in the trash or burn it- WELL.
If it is nowhere near the "setting seed" stage (no tassle starting to come out the top), a good spraying of Roundup will kill it off permanently.
RoundUp is probably THE least toxic spray I've used at any time in 20 years of being licensed. We actually do farm nearly organically, and I garden the same way, but some things just don't work that way. I've tried all the "boiling vinegar spray" tricks to get rid of both burdock and dock- and they've just continued to multiply.
RoundUp, unlike most herbicides, actually does what you said "absorbs the poison in the plant, sends it to the root"- and is immediately deactivated by contact with soil.
Now, given that it's in a planting you want to keep, you can't just spray it. But you CAN *carefully* paint it on the dock plants with a roller or paintbrush- and as long as you get it on at least 3-4 leaves on each plant, they're goners...
Just don't trip and fall and spill your little can of RoundUp- because ANY plant it covers or splashes heavily on is in trouble. Some folks DO spray plants that are in the midst (or close to) valuable plantings, but they hold cardboard or something as a shield.
And if you have a terrible accident (and splash the stuff all over a plant you love), you simply grab a hose FAST and wash it off well. It sets and is impervious to rain within 2 hours, but you do have a short window to rectify mistakes.
Summerthyme
Sometimes it's the only way you can deal with them
Dock is especially nasty mostly because it seems to be able to set seeds after you've tilled it under!
If it's starting to put seed on- AT ALL- your best bet is to somehow (know someone with a sickle bar mower?) cut it off and rake it up and either dump it in the trash or burn it- WELL.If it is nowhere near the "setting seed" stage (no tassle starting to come out the top), a good spraying of Roundup will kill it off permanently.
RoundUp is probably THE least toxic spray I've used at any time in 20 years of being licensed. We actually do farm nearly organically, and I garden the same way, but some things just don't work that way. I've tried all the "boiling vinegar spray" tricks to get rid of both burdock and dock- and they've just continued to multiply.
RoundUp, unlike most herbicides, actually does what you said "absorbs the poison in the plant, sends it to the root"- and is immediately deactivated by contact with soil.
Now, given that it's in a planting you want to keep, you can't just spray it. But you CAN *carefully* paint it on the dock plants with a roller or paintbrush- and as long as you get it on at least 3-4 leaves on each plant, they're goners...
Just don't trip and fall and spill your little can of RoundUp- because ANY plant it covers or splashes heavily on is in trouble. Some folks DO spray plants that are in the midst (or close to) valuable plantings, but they hold cardboard or something as a shield.
And if you have a terrible accident (and splash the stuff all over a plant you love), you simply grab a hose FAST and wash it off well. It sets and is impervious to rain within 2 hours, but you do have a short window to rectify mistakes.
Summerthyme
Certified Pesticide Applicator Todd here, too. In fact, I just finished up co-ordinating an 8.5 hour pesticide applicator seminar yesterday.
I agree with Summerthyme. Round Up is probably the easiest choice that will kill the stuff. You could use a broadleaf herbicide but most of these contain 2,4-D, Dicamba and similar stuff which is far "worse" then R.U.
If you want to play around with a "non-herbicide" you can try vinegar. All it will probably do is kill the leaves but if you keep doing it after the plants re-leaf, they will eventualy run out of food and die. Like Round Up, it is non-selective.
Todd
I agree with Summerthyme. Round Up is probably the easiest choice that will kill the stuff. You could use a broadleaf herbicide but most of these contain 2,4-D, Dicamba and similar stuff which is far "worse" then R.U.
If you want to play around with a "non-herbicide" you can try vinegar. All it will probably do is kill the leaves but if you keep doing it after the plants re-leaf, they will eventualy run out of food and die. Like Round Up, it is non-selective.
Todd