PREP Prepping for the apocalypse, 2020 chapter and verse

Watchman2

Veteran Member
Where is your bunker located??? :devilish::devilish::devilish::devilish:


It's been years for me personally since I've spent any energy or money on the specific aim of preparedness. As some of you know, there was a time when prepping was literally my life ... indeed every waking hour for 12 years plus.

As a result of that, let's just say that my bunker overflows ... still.

But with this latest approaching flyby of (or dive-bomb into) WWIII, my prepping corpuscles are once again percolating a bit.

I was already anticipating that this election year was going to turn the U.S. into an unpredictably chaotic and violent wreck. But the Iran/Middle East crisis is an added wild card that challenges the imagination.

Anyone here care to advise or remind this old hand what needs to be done at this point? I've run through a mental checklist and can't come up with anything obvious that I need to attend to other than filling up several fuel cans.

Any new preps on the market I need to look into that have favorably impressed you in the last few years?

Feel free to run with this topic as needed.
 

dioptase

Contributing Member
In all your preps, don't forget your gardening needs; you will want some fresh veggies and herbs to supplement all the dried/canned/frozen stuff. Fertilizers (a must if you don't have a compost heap, and still desirable imo if you do), seeds, tools (I have any number of hand pruners and trowels, in addition to shovels and a digging fork), fencing if needed to keep the critters (both wild and domestic) at bay (this can include fine but strong poly mesh to keep rats and such out), frost protection (for either end of the growing season), maybe a cold frame.

Greenhouses are definitely desirable if you have the space for it, but not everyone does. If you do have room for a greenhouse, think hard about plastic versus glass. It has been my experience that plastic simply doesn't hold up well. I've been through 3 supposedly UV-resistant covers now in 6 years, on a small stand-up greenhouse (think 5' high bookcase with metal shelves), and it's just not worth it. At another house, years ago, supposedly UV plastic window panes lasted 2 years before frosting over and needing to be replaced. Glass seems to be best (for the long term), but you will need to plan for breakage.

Learn which of your plants you don't have to harvest in full but can take parts of, to keep a perpetual supply if they can overwinter. (This depends on your climate, of course; I'm in Zone 9 but I still have the same bunching onion plants that I started from seed 8 or more years ago. Some herbs are perennial, such as mints and chives, and oregano in my garden.) During the growing season, use "cut-and-come-again" to harvest lettuce, until it gets too hot and the lettuce starts to bolt. The overarching idea here is to have as much of a perpetual fresh food supply as you can, with as little work on your part (digging new beds, starting new seeds, transplanting seedlings) as possible.
 

Old Gray Mare

Has No Life - Lives on TB
On preps I always see gardening seeds. Rarely do I see mention of seeds for edible sprouts. Unless already started a garden means food is weeks or months away. With sprouts you can have crunchy, nutritious veg in days. Add to soups, salads, stir fry, fried rice, omelets, egg foo young, sandwiches, wraps, steam them etc.

There are a lot of seeds that produce edible sprouts (not just beans!) in a wide variety of flavors.

Other advantages to stocking and using seeds for sprouting is that they take up relatively little space for the amount of food they ultimately produce. They don't require freezer space and are easy to grow and prepare.
 
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summerthyme

Administrator
_______________
In all your preps, don't forget your gardening needs; you will want some fresh veggies and herbs to supplement all the dried/canned/frozen stuff. Fertilizers (a must if you don't have a compost heap, and still desirable imo if you do), seeds, tools (I have any number of hand pruners and trowels, in addition to shovels and a digging fork), fencing if needed to keep the critters (both wild and domestic) at bay (this can include fine but strong poly mesh to keep rats and such out), frost protection (for either end of the growing season), maybe a cold frame.

Greenhouses are definitely desirable if you have the space for it, but not everyone does. If you do have room for a greenhouse, think hard about plastic versus glass. It has been my experience that plastic simply doesn't hold up well. I've been through 3 supposedly UV-resistant covers now in 6 years, on a small stand-up greenhouse (think 5' high bookcase with metal shelves), and it's just not worth it. At another house, years ago, supposedly UV plastic window panes lasted 2 years before frosting over and needing to be replaced. Glass seems to be best (for the long term), but you will need to plan for breakage.

Learn which of your plants you don't have to harvest in full but can take parts of, to keep a perpetual supply if they can overwinter. (This depends on your climate, of course; I'm in Zone 9 but I still have the same bunching onion plants that I started from seed 8 or more years ago. Some herbs are perennial, such as mints and chives, and oregano in my garden.) During the growing season, use "cut-and-come-again" to harvest lettuce, until it gets too hot and the lettuce starts to bolt. The overarching idea here is to have as much of a perpetual fresh food supply as you can, with as little work on your part (digging new beds, starting new seeds, transplanting seedlings) as possible.
I'll add that even if you normally prefer to garden organically, some basic disease and insect controls (organic if possible, but whatever works) are vital. Row covers can help protect plants from insects (and four legged nibblers), but there are seasons when your choice is using an insecticide or fungicide, or losing the whole crop. As of today, you can easily go to the store and buy what didn't grow... If TSHTF, you will go hungry... And possibly lose your seed for future years.

Summerthyme
 

hiwall

Veteran Member
We are pretty well set here but I have decided to add a small (3k watt) solar system to run a couple of house circuits.
This is the system I chose. I will likely double the number of batteries and add a second inverter(so I have a 220 volts option).
 

China Connection

TB Fanatic
Going out to get more shit today. Horse, cow and sheep. The car is going to smell like a toilet block.

Need to get some sheets for new camp bed. Second hand of course.........

Never know what I might get from the community secondhand shop....
 

dioptase

Contributing Member
Lighting...

Right now I'm in the process of slowly replacing old fluorescent light lanterns with new LED ones; the new lanterns are more compact, the light seems better, and disposing of fluorescent bulbs is not an issue. I also like glow sticks for the bathrooms when the power goes out (you can get them in all colors, including white), but those are a one-use-only type of thing. (They are cheap enough in bulk to stockpile, but I think there is a limited shelf life so I don't have a huge pile of them. I recently tried out some Life Gear LED glow sticks and they are great, so I am going to buy some more (plus hunt up some replacement batteries).

Since non-rechargeable batteries have a shelf life, I have a lot of candles too, but the lantern, glow sticks and emergency-rechargeable-flashlight-stuck-in-a-power-outlet are what I go for first, in a power outage. (I do have a solar battery charger and a few rechargeable batteries, but my battery preference these days are the 9 volt, A, and AA lithium batteries. In any event, I doubt there are rechargeable batteries for small things like those glow sticks, or hearing aids.)
 

Old Gray Mare

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Lighting...

Right now I'm in the process of slowly replacing old fluorescent light lanterns with new LED ones; the new lanterns are more compact, the light seems better, and disposing of fluorescent bulbs is not an issue. I also like glow sticks for the bathrooms when the power goes out (you can get them in all colors, including white), but those are a one-use-only type of thing. (They are cheap enough in bulk to stockpile, but I think there is a limited shelf life so I don't have a huge pile of them. I recently tried out some Life Gear LED glow sticks and they are great, so I am going to buy some more (plus hunt up some replacement batteries).

Since non-rechargeable batteries have a shelf life, I have a lot of candles too, but the lantern, glow sticks and emergency-rechargeable-flashlight-stuck-in-a-power-outlet are what I go for first, in a power outage. (I do have a solar battery charger and a few rechargeable batteries, but my battery preference these days are the 9 volt, A, and AA lithium batteries. In any event, I doubt there are rechargeable batteries for small things like those glow sticks, or hearing aids.)
Have you considered solar lights/lanterns? Oil lamps and lanterns? If oil lamps are a possibility remember extra wicks, fuel and chimneys. Please don't attempt to clean a hot chimney with a wet rag. It's an easy way to brake a chimney and get cut.

Working smoke detectors and appropriate type fire extinguishers are must have preps.
 

dioptase

Contributing Member
Thanks for the suggestions. I've considered oil lanterns, but we live in earthquake country, so for our needs non-flammable is better. Even candles (not the LED kind) are somewhat frowned upon here for that reason, but I like them so I keep a stash. In any event, we have limited storage space, so I store what is relatively compact and what I know we will use.

As for solar lights... Maybe they've improved since the last time I tried them, but they weren't working all that great then. (I'm thinking of landscape solar lights.) We live in a little depression compared to the surrounding landscape, so that may be why; in the shorter daylight months of the year there simply wasn't enough daylight time to fully recharge them. Maybe if you climbed up on top of the roof (which neither of us are willing to do)...

I'm sure that if you are in a situation where you are already living off grid and get your power from a solar array plus a ton of hefty batteries, then lighting is maybe less of an issue. But that's not where we're at, or likely to be in the near future, so for now it is LED lanterns and glow sticks (chemical or otherwise) and candles.
 

Coco82919

Veteran Member
I have been buying oil lamps, candles and soaps for real cheep at some estate sales over the last year. I know candles and oil lamps have a fire risk but they do not rely on batteries. I also have some LED lights that are brighter and nicer then the candles.
 

Thinwater

Firearms Manufacturer
If you buy the better grade of solar yard light, think $12-$15 each vs $2 each, and replace the factory batteries that come in them with quality rechargeable batteries (Most are AA or AAA size) they work very well. You can charge it outside in the sun all day and it will run all night. If yo have a solar panel use it to recharge batteries and use them in the small LED lanterns that run 30 - 40 hours on a charge. I keep these lanterns in my shelter as back up with a few packs of non rechargeable batteries for SHTF use if I cant go outside to play with my solar stuff.
 

Reasonable Rascal

Veteran Member
I can only make a general presumption of what your bunker as it were might contain, but I would hope that you have not forgone qualified medical preps.

If you haven't already obtained a copy I recommend (disclosure: I am one of the authors) Survival and Austere Medicine: An Introduction, 3rd Edition.

I of course recommend obtaining a hard copy (we make ZERO royalties, so no conflicts there) but the download is free if that is all you can do, and has 100% of the material: Survival & Austere Medicine

Print copies are available on-demand direct from the printer, B/W or color, soft- or hardbound: Survival & Austere Medicine: An Introduction, 3rd edition (full color text, hardcover) by Discussion Group RAWTWM (Hardcover) - Lulu

If you have that and have read it we can talk. I wouldn't wait for the update - they tend to take us a few years between editions but we are working on it.

RR
 

CaryC

Veteran Member
I've had to take this attitude with family members and friends around here. They all think I'm nuts.

I bought this a couple of months ago to add to my stash:


This TP is the kind I like and its a great price at 50 cents a roll, can't find that price any where in awhile. We use about 1 and 1/2 rolls a week. It would be less than that except that I pee a lot.

Judy
That's great. OBTW don't throw that sleeve of cardboard the paper comes on, away. It's a great fire starter. If you have a dryer, you can put the lint, and dryer sheet (the stuff on the sheet is made with alcohol, and a used sheet still has residue) inside the tube, surround the tube with pine cones, small pieces of wood, like limbs, one match and it's gone.

After an EMP (LOL) you can still use it. Tear it slightly on one end, put in pine needles (dry) other tinder, like grass, cotton balls, etc. and you're good to go. Light the part that you tore. Putting a drop of hand sanitizer on the cotton ball has the same effect, as dryer lint, and sheet. IF you want to use the hand sanitizer.
 

Marthanoir

Has No Life - Lives on TB
On preps I always see gardening seeds. Rarely do I see mention of seeds for edible sprouts. Unless already started a garden means food is weeks or months away. With sprouts you can have crunchy, nutritious veg in days. Add to soups, salads, stir fry, fried rice, omelets, egg foo young, sandwiches, wraps, steam them etc.

There are a lot of seeds that produce edible sprouts (not just beans!) in a wide variety of flavors.

Other advantages to stocking and using seeds for sprouting is that they take up relatively little space for the amount of food they ultimately produce. They don't require freezer space and are easy to grow and prepare.
Green lentils are great sprouted, really quick sprouting time and lentils are dirt cheap.
 

Watchman2

Veteran Member
For LED lighting, just pick up 25ft or 50 rolls of plain LED christmas lights........ they take little power and yet give off enough light to move around yet not so much to throw much of a signature out there........ I bought 6 - 25ft rolls year before last on after Christmas sale for under $25.
 

Millwright

Knuckle Dragger
_______________
For LED lighting, just pick up 25ft or 50 rolls of plain LED christmas lights........ they take little power and yet give off enough light to move around yet not so much to throw much of a signature out there........ I bought 6 - 25ft rolls year before last on after Christmas sale for under $25.
I found some stick-um LED strips that would run directly off of 12v or use their X-fmr.

Do you know what voltage the christmas lights use?

Gotta save that inverter capacity for the blender. :D
 

jed turtle

a brother in the Lord
In
In all your preps, don't forget your gardening needs; you will want some fresh veggies and herbs to supplement all the dried/canned/frozen stuff. Fertilizers (a must if you don't have a compost heap, and still desirable imo if you do), seeds, tools (I have any number of hand pruners and trowels, in addition to shovels and a digging fork), fencing if needed to keep the critters (both wild and domestic) at bay (this can include fine but strong poly mesh to keep rats and such out), frost protection (for either end of the growing season), maybe a cold frame.

Greenhouses are definitely desirable if you have the space for it, but not everyone does. If you do have room for a greenhouse, think hard about plastic versus glass. It has been my experience that plastic simply doesn't hold up well. I've been through 3 supposedly UV-resistant covers now in 6 years, on a small stand-up greenhouse (think 5' high bookcase with metal shelves), and it's just not worth it. At another house, years ago, supposedly UV plastic window panes lasted 2 years before frosting over and needing to be replaced. Glass seems to be best (for the long term), but you will need to plan for breakage.

Learn which of your plants you don't have to harvest in full but can take parts of, to keep a perpetual supply if they can overwinter. (This depends on your climate, of course; I'm in Zone 9 but I still have the same bunching onion plants that I started from seed 8 or more years ago. Some herbs are perennial, such as mints and chives, and oregano in my garden.) During the growing season, use "cut-and-come-again" to harvest lettuce, until it gets too hot and the lettuce starts to bolt. The overarching idea here is to have as much of a perpetual fresh food supply as you can, with as little work on your part (digging new beds, starting new seeds, transplanting seedlings) as possible.
in Maine, my experience with 6 mill greenhouse plastic poly with UV resistant additives warrantied for 4 years means 4 years somewhere like in the southern states. I still have the original 32’ x 40’ sheet over my poor man’s workshop after 20 years. Long low-light winters extend the shelf life considerably. I have also started using corrugated clear lexan panels like on the roofs over the decks attached to the house to preserve the decks as well as working towards turning them into greenhouses. That stuff is billed as unbreakable and to expect at least 25 years use out of them.

ps: i see you just joined...Welcome !
 
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homepark

Geezer Squeezer
I have been canning meat. I use the pint jars for meat only, holds about a pound. Quart jars for stews and soup. You do not need refrigeration. Push comes to shove, you can eat it right out of the jar. I made our New Year's Day meal with 3 types of home-canned meat. They had been canned for 1-2 months. Tasted great. You need a pressure canner to do this for sure. Follow the quidelines and you should be ok.
 

nomifyle

Has No Life - Lives on TB
I have been canning meat. I use the pint jars for meat only, holds about a pound. Quart jars for stews and soup. You do not need refrigeration. Push comes to shove, you can eat it right out of the jar. I made our New Year's Day meal with 3 types of home-canned meat. They had been canned for 1-2 months. Tasted great. You need a pressure canner to do this for sure. Follow the quidelines and you should be ok.
I've had absolutely no success at canning, either water bath or pressure canning. I canned some pinto beans back in the spring and ended up with maggots in a couple of jars because they did not stay sealed, and I know they pinged. I'm not dissing home canning, I know several people that do it very successfully with vegetables. But personally I would have no faith in anything I canned. Something to consider if you've never canned.

Judy
 

Millwright

Knuckle Dragger
_______________
I've had absolutely no success at canning, either water bath or pressure canning. I canned some pinto beans back in the spring and ended up with maggots in a couple of jars because they did not stay sealed, and I know they pinged. I'm not dissing home canning, I know several people that do it very successfully with vegetables. But personally I would have no faith in anything I canned. Something to consider if you've never canned.

Judy
Find a class and take it.


There are a lot of things I've figured out on my own. It would have been easier with some kind of instructions.

Even with written instructions, the learning curve is MUCH easier if you can see someone do things while they teach you.
 

coalcracker

Veteran Member
Bicycle

Use it for enjoyment now and to stay in shape. It's easy on your joints (though you will have to ride more than a few times before that tailbone pain goes away). It's fun, and we are never too old for it.

I've taken my bike when I've been on long road trips away from home. Good stress reliever, plus a backup tool in End of the World scenarios. No gas? No problem. We're still covering 10 miles an hour at a leaisurely pace.

Dual purpose prep. Use it now for fun and health. Use it later as basic transportation option.
 

nomifyle

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Find a class and take it.


There are a lot of things I've figured out on my own. It would have been easier with some kind of instructions.

Even with written instructions, the learning curve is MUCH easier if you can see someone do things while they teach you.
If I was younger I would, but at 73 I've decided not to do it. I'm not yet ready to give away all my canning stuff though. When I canned the 18 jars of pinto beans it was completely exhausting. Plus I have a crappy electric stove. I'll just stick with what I have stored, which is quite a bit.

Judy
 

meezy

I think I can...
I've had absolutely no success at canning, either water bath or pressure canning. I canned some pinto beans back in the spring and ended up with maggots in a couple of jars because they did not stay sealed, and I know they pinged. I'm not dissing home canning, I know several people that do it very successfully with vegetables. But personally I would have no faith in anything I canned. Something to consider if you've never canned.

Judy
Finally something I know about. :) Most important things for successful canning:
1. Make sure jars have no nicks in the rim, and wipe the rims with a wet towel before putting on the lids. (Don’t use your canning jars for drinking glasses, even though they’re awesome drinking glasses.)
2. Use new lids every time. (Yes I know you *can* reuse them maybe or buy reusable ones, but it’s safer to use new ones. I use the old ones for refrigerator storage.)
3. Follow directions carefully regarding food prep, head space in jar, safe/unsafe ingredients, adding lemon juice to tomatoes, and whatever the Ball Blue Book says.
4. Make sure you pressure can for the time indicated, at the pressure indicated — adjusted, if necessary, for your altitude.
I’ve been canning for several years and never had anything spoil.
 

Jerry

Senior Member
Enjoyed reading through the thread - seemed like the old days, heh.
When reviewing preps and efforts to get through changed conditions my focus has been on technological improvements, mostly in the energy area.
* Solar panels and controllers have evolved into more effective formats than those from even 10 years ago. Solar panels are generally available for less than a dollar a watt. The higher efficiency panels are often a bit more - still a huge difference in pricing from back when which translates to more available power for the dollar.
* Solar panel controllers have also improved with MPPT (maximum power point tracking) to get the most effective charging power out of panel output. Quite a bit of difference from PWM (pulse width modulation) which was the cat's meow of the day when it was introduced.
* Lighting has improved with LED technology that makes compact fluorescents look like energy hogs and incandescent lighting is probably more effective as a heat source.
* Energy storage has also improved with a lot of emphasis put onto Lithium Ion formulates. This is showing up in power assisted tools and portable lighting devices. For cost effectiveness, in my opinion flooded lead acid is still the best value for stationary power.
* Energy generation has also changed with more evolved generator winding patterns and electronic modification of power. Inverter style generators are a good indication of efficiencies introduced in the last 20 years.`
* DC to AC inverters have evolved to more efficiency and dependability and are now available in split phase configurations that supply both 120 and 240 voltages out of the same device. The price effectiveness of these devices is quite appealing.
-----
Where does it all end up? Water, Food, Shelter and Heat are still the primary focus but the quality of life items have shifted. As I age, the floor gets lower and there is a definite gravity well when I try to get up. I find I don't have the strength nor stamina as when younger and devices that assist are more important. I also note that I am using liquid fuels for a lot less than before - don't want to fiddle with it and the continual need for pesky maintenance. To that end, the newer lithium battery powered tools are a help. My toolbox now has a lot of Ryobi stuff with their battery interchangeability. Garden and yard tools are now battery electric with some being AC electric. For the stuff away from the house, a couple of truck batteries and an inverter will generally outlast my energy level. Does the electric stuff meet the performance of the gas powered tools? Not a chance. But they can pick away at the task until done and that is good enough for me.

I am also reviewing and upgrading some of the older items. The generator is a 5000/6250 watt, 10 HP Tecumseh that puts out 120/240 VAC and it drinks about a gallon of fuel an hour even on light load. It will be replaced with a smaller unit that also supplies 120/240 (still good enough for the well) but will run on less than half the fuel. I will get one of those portable inverter generators that will run on light load for 6 hours on a gallon of fuel for refrigeration needs.

I think those areas are where an upgrade or addition would be useful. Hope this helps.
 

Deena in GA

Administrator
_______________
One newer food item that I've stocked a bit lately is flour tortillas. They have a much longer shelf life than bread, but can be used like bread. The ones I bought in December have a use by date of June. You can use them in the typical way, or spread chicken salad, tuna salad or peanut butter on them for a quick meal. Our granddaughter who lives with us loves for me to just sprinkle cheddar cheese on it and microwave it just long enough to begin to melt the cheese. Then we roll it up and she eats it. :) I'm sure there are a lot more ways to use them too.
 

nomifyle

Has No Life - Lives on TB
One newer food item that I've stocked a bit lately is flour tortillas. They have a much longer shelf life than bread, but can be used like bread. The ones I bought in December have a use by date of June. You can use them in the typical way, or spread chicken salad, tuna salad or peanut butter on them for a quick meal. Our granddaughter who lives with us loves for me to just sprinkle cheddar cheese on it and microwave it just long enough to begin to melt the cheese. Then we roll it up and she eats it. :) I'm sure there are a lot more ways to use them too.
We use them instead of bread too. And actually we almost never eat bread and don't eat these even once a week.
Judy
 

SouthernBreeze

Veteran Member
One newer food item that I've stocked a bit lately is flour tortillas. They have a much longer shelf life than bread, but can be used like bread. The ones I bought in December have a use by date of June. You can use them in the typical way, or spread chicken salad, tuna salad or peanut butter on them for a quick meal. Our granddaughter who lives with us loves for me to just sprinkle cheddar cheese on it and microwave it just long enough to begin to melt the cheese. Then we roll it up and she eats it. :) I'm sure there are a lot more ways to use them too.
That's a great idea. I've never thought about that. Will sure add those to my next shopping list. We eat them occasionally, but have never thought about stocking a few packages! Thanks!
 

Walrus Whisperer

Hope in chains...
I have something I use all the time for bigger cuts or injuries. Thrift store item or new: socks. Baby, child and adults. Cut them to fit whatever you want to cover. Obviously, this is for like arms, legs, foot, hand. They stretch and are quite useful. People or animals. U can also use old t shirts, cut in strips for covering wounds and keeping ointments on. Heels are really good for elbows.
 
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AlaskaSue

North to the Future
I've been enjoying all the input on this thread...been prepping since I got married in 1974 and my late husband worked remote. Actually, even before that on my family's move to Alaska when we had planned to be living in the Bush.

My input is that as we get older (as prayerfully we all will), we have to keep moving, keep on working to not only maintain (or gain) strength but to also be flexible. It helps a lot to be nimble on that icy ground, and getting on the floor and hopping back up to chase kids is always fun. There is a lot of work happening daily for us all now; that would only increase in a real 'situation'. Being - or getting - physically fit can only help. I understand not everyone can do this for various reasons; but as a person who has lost a great amount of weight and gone from zero stairs possible to planning my first Spartan Race this year...I hope to encourage some of you to add fitness to your plan. Just another aspect to consider with all the rest :)
 

Milkweed Host

Veteran Member
Just came from a Farm and Fleet store. Christmas lights/supplies, along with Halloween
supplies on sale in a clearance aisle. Most of it 60-75% off. This looks like last years supplies.
 

Loretta Van Riet

Trying to hang out with the cool kids.
One newer food item that I've stocked a bit lately is flour tortillas. They have a much longer shelf life than bread, but can be used like bread. The ones I bought in December have a use by date of June. You can use them in the typical way, or spread chicken salad, tuna salad or peanut butter on them for a quick meal. Our granddaughter who lives with us loves for me to just sprinkle cheddar cheese on it and microwave it just long enough to begin to melt the cheese. Then we roll it up and she eats it. :) I'm sure there are a lot more ways to use them too.
I have found that I now prefer to use a flour tortilla for a hotdog ,rather than using a hotdog bun. They keep a lot longer!
 

TedM1911

Contributing Member
As stated above, be prepared to die. I am retired army. I have deployed and I have killed. While I believe fuel is the only prep I can improve on the one thing I understand is be prepared to die. If we ever get to that point you have to be able to kill without hesitation and be prepared to die. Any other thoughts or hesitations will not end well for those you leave behind.

Once you are at this point, be sure Jesus is your Lord and Savior. Without him it really does not matter.
 
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