[Prep] POST- Jeanne, Ivan, Frances & Charley Hurricane Prep Lessons Learned.

Prairie Lady

Inactive
Those camp shower bags are very handy for not only showers, but for washing any dishes too. You can always heat a small amount of water to very hot, then add it to cold water already in the bag if the sun isn't shining.

In the 'old days' when our regular life style didn't include electricity we did a couple of things for lights. One was to keep a tank of propane for a propane coleman stove, and a colman lamp..the kind with the bags for bright light, but worked off propane. Our houses were very drafty so clean air was not an issue witht he lamp. Tank was kept in a shed on the other side of the wall, or outside.

The other thing we did was keep those dc powered lamps for working on your car..has the little cage over the light bulb, and the cord has clips that you attach to the car battery cables. You can recharge the battery using your car. Since my main income was making jewelry at home, I needed good lights. It worked.

Chilling/freezing soups and stews...also might consider canning soups and stews so that they don't even need to be refrigerated. Saves cooler space for frozen bottles of water. Since canned goods aren't cold, they heat more quickly which saves on our sterno or what ever one uses for heating foods.

I do have a question about the fuel storage though. How does one safely store fuel in the face of the horrendous storm that Ivan was? Garages didn't survive, entire buildings were shorn off the front looking like they'd become part of the oklahoma city bombed buildings. How does one safely store gasoline in the face of something like that?

pl
 

biere

Veteran Member
The only method of storage that will be most mother nature proof is in the ground. From having an underground shelter to simply digging a hole and burying some gas cans, underground has the best chance of surviving.

Now this advice comes from ohio and I do know the watertable in most areas getting these hurricanes would make this a pain. But maybe something in a hillside or whatever would work for some folks.

The car, the truck, the house, the shed, the garage, and most everything else is more vulnerable than something buried in the yard, and by buried I mean with a decent layer of dirt on top of it as well so it is protected.
 

WalknTrot

Veteran Member
Now that we are active again on this thread, I thought it was time to give you guys my review so far of the 30 LED 4 D cell lantern from Sportsmans Guide.

www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=128546

It arrived Monday afternoon, so I decided to sacrifice 4 D's (new 2008 date) to the testing experiment. The lantern itself seems well made, though it would likely crack or break if dropped on the floor. With new batteries, the light is bright....you can read by it but not without strain. Playing cards would be iffy, because the light doesn't seem to spread out as well as I'd hoped. (More on that later) You can easily see well enough to cook or move around the main part of the house with out falling over anything. Contrary to the ad, I guess I wouldn't choose to fillet a fish by it, but that may just be my own incompetence talking!

The quality of the light is a bit odd. It is the typical bluish-white LED color and doesn't seem to light as much area as my Coleman twin tube 8 D flourescent. (The Coleman BTW is rated at 18 hours on 8 D's.) The flourescent light is a more warm, pleasing color and is easier on the eye because the LED lamp really glares straight out from the source. (I am thinking a simple paper shade on the LED lamp may help this annoyance. Will have to play with that.) The flourescent (new batteries) is also a bit easier to read by. Personally, I've concluded that any reading I do with the power off will be assisted by an LED headlamp.

The LED lantern has now been on for about 150 hours and it is about half as bright as the first day. It still lights my large kitchen-living-dining area well enough to move around in. I noticed a marked decline in reading ability after about 36 hours.

I had hoped this lantern would be the answer...brighter than my Coleman flourescent while being extremely easy on batteries. It is not. And it's over twice as expensive to purchase. I'm not sorry I bought it because it IS extremely easy on batteries and it has some good applications. I'd want several if I had young kids because they could carry one around and leave it on for days as a security light in an outage or camping. It is a cool, battery friendly area light that would be very welcome in a long outage situation. I think your likely usage will determine whether the savings in battery life covers the additional cost of the LED lantern over the Coleman.

Oh well....the search continues! :shr:
 

Freeholdfarm

Inactive
You know, all this talk about lighting, combined with the fact that in a real, permanent EOTWAWKI situation beeswax, oils, and fats of all kinds would be expensive and hard to come by, really points up the fact that lifestyles and habits would have to drastically change if that happened. We can do battery lanterns or Coleman lanterns, or candles, in a temporary emergency, because we know that it will end in a few hours or a few days, and we'll be able to replace the batteries or the fuel or the candles. But in a permanent "emergency" we would have to adapt to working during daylight hours and sleeping in the dark hours, with maybe an hour or so of contemplating the firelight in climates where it isn't too warm to have a fire. Candles used to be, and may someday again be, strictly for beekeepers and the well-to-do (and the beekeepers probably won't burn candles for their own use when they can sell them to the rich for much-needed cash). Poor folks will have to make do with rush lights or pitch torches, or, if they have some spare fat that they don't need for cooking or soap they might have a betty lamp. So, appreciate that electricity when it comes back on! :D

Kathleen
 

Doris

Inactive
Stephen said:
Sleeping
After two nights to get used to it, sleeping in even the hottest weather can be reasonably comfortable if you can cool off with a shower just before going to bed, and if you have a fan running. I was able to run a fan with the battery/inverter combination (described later), and it worked very well.

My plan had originally been to sleep on my screened-in-porch, but I didn’t consider the fact that the floor would be flooded. I ordered a cot from Cabela’s, and it arrived on Friday - the day power was restored. It will come in handy the next time.

When there is no power, one quickly gets into the habit of going to bed shortly after dark, and then waking up at dawn. Sleep patterns can change pretty quickly under these circumstances.

Without air conditioning, and working outside all day long, allergies can act up and make sleeping even harder than it already is. Nasal decongestant spray or Benadryl in your first aid kit will make it easier to sleep.

I just wanted to add, as a suggestion, that we discovered that, after the second day of lost power, that removing that padding off the waterbed and sleeping directly on the mattress lowered our body temperature to such a degree that we had to roll up in blankets in 80 degree nights in Daytona Beach to get warmed up. It was a salvation even during the hot days as a break from the heat.

Hurricane Charley's eyewall came within 1 block our our house but Frances, which was more than 50 miles away was much, much worse because of the length of time it hammered us relentlessly.
 

Anjou

Inactive
But in a permanent "emergency" we would have to adapt to working during daylight hours and sleeping in the dark hours,

Y'know, I'm an avowed night owl... but all it takes is a few hours idling at a campsite or somewhere away in the country and as soon as it gets dark, I want to go crawl into a cave with a bearskin rug. I think rather than being a problem for the MOST part a reduction in artificial light would be a good-for-you thing.

Now, that is safety and night-watch kinds of issues aside... just in day to day routines, I mean.

we discovered that, after the second day of lost power, that removing that padding off the waterbed and sleeping directly on the mattress lowered our body temperature to such a degree that we had to roll up in blankets in 80 degree nights in Daytona Beach to get warmed up. It was a salvation even during the hot days as a break from the heat.

That's a brilliant thing to know! (There are some water-cooled houses though it's far from a really popular thing vs. regular a/c.) I suppose in the right strange situation one might fill an air mattress with water somehow and benefit similarly.
 

SectionOne

Inactive
Doris- good idea about the waterbed pad. I burned up in my waterbed and didnt think of the fact that it probably still held heat in it. Another thing is to keep plenty of fresh sheets handy. You will sweat and having extra sheets available was nice. The heat in AL was unbelivable during our outtage. The old fashioned remedy of wetting a cold washcloth and continously wiping your brow and back of neck helped make it tolerable. I did that as I tried to fall asleep and it helped.

Other things I learned:

Like someone else said, WASH EVERYTHING IN SITE beforehand. I did, and it made it alot easier to have all that available and during the day as you work in the yard cleaning up debris and such it's nice to have plenty of clothes to change into as needed.

Everyone knows it's hard to take a cold shower. I filled up the bathtub to a shallow level and got wet, then stood up and got soapy then kneeled and rinsed. Then I washed my hair in the sink after I was dressed. That was alot easier then "taking the plunge" and getting wet all over for several minutes. My kids just couldnt deal with it, so we used a camp stove to heat water and mixed boiling water with cold water until the temp was right in a shallow bath for them. As long as their hair wasnt just plain naisty, I didnt make them wash their hair everyday. My daughter just stuck it in a ponytail and it was fine for a couple of days. I will buy some dry shampoo to have on hand for next time.

Like another person said, I too did not realize how quick we would need ice. On day three the ice started melting. NO ICE anywhere in our town. Next time, I will continously buy what is available and make my own by putting cubes in gallon ziplocks to store around my food. We turned our freezer up full blast so it would be as cold as possible when the power went. That helped. The ice we stored in the freezer kept our food cold for days. We just needed MORE ice, but that is something we learned. You can never have ENOUGH ice. I think what I will start doing is freeze my water gallon jugs. (Make sure the jugs will expand, though)Then I will have water to get out to thaw and leave what is left to help ice down the food. Your freezer acts as a giant cooler this way. A friend told me afterwards he wrapped his freezer with a comforter and it kept it cooler as well.

Keep paperplates and cups available so you will have to wash less for those spoiled with a dishwasher.

I missed my coffee! I will buy a camp style coffee maker for next time, but my husband improvised for us on day two by boiling water on the camp stove and I put the coffee in then he just simply poured the boiling water through the grinds by hand to make it. What a simple soloution that will get you by for all of you who are addicted like me! Sometimes something as simple as that you don't think of when you are whining about no coffee. hehe ;)

I will get a battery operated TV. We only had local coverage on the radio but we had no clue how bad south alabama got hit and we were real anxious to know how other areas fared. No newspaper either for a couple of days so we were cut off from all news sources. I really missed not knowing what was happening. When we did get phone service, I had an internet friend tape CNN for me bc I really wanted the footage and by the time my power got on, it was not BIG NEWS anymore so I missed all the initial pictures and reactions coming from Gulf Shores. Next time I will have a friend start the tape during the hurricane and just let the tape run for the whole next day. I can always fast forward the commercials and such but just having a friend tape it for you...you will get the footage and plus you can always keep it to show your kids one day the significance of it all.

That's all I can think of for now. This is a great thread. I've jotted down lots of ideas. This will serve as an excellent thread for ice storms as well.
 

A.T.Hagan

Inactive
WalknTrot said:
Now that we are active again on this thread, I thought it was time to give you guys my review so far of the 30 LED 4 D cell lantern from Sportsmans Guide.

www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=128546

{snip}

I had hoped this lantern would be the answer...brighter than my Coleman fluorescent while being extremely easy on batteries. It is not. And it's over twice as expensive to purchase. I'm not sorry I bought it because it IS extremely easy on batteries and it has some good applications. I'd want several if I had young kids because they could carry one around and leave it on for days as a security light in an outage or camping. It is a cool, battery friendly area light that would be very welcome in a long outage situation. I think your likely usage will determine whether the savings in battery life covers the additional cost of the LED lantern over the Coleman.

Oh well....the search continues! :shr:

THANK YOU for the review!

This is the kind of thing that really makes this board valuable. Real-world, hands-on reviews.

Looks like I'll go with one of the Coleman lanterns. I'm either going to go with the Rugged Twin or the Northstar battery model. They appear to be pretty durable.

Picked up two more of the compact fluorescent 12v Vector trouble lights at Bass Pro today for gifts. For some reason they don't show up in their online catalog, but the Orlando store always has them when I go down.

.....Alan.
 

Deena in GA

Administrator
_______________
Just in case anyone else ever needs this information, I found out today that you CAN bake in a dutch oven over a regular gas stove. A friend of mine lived for several years in northern Afghanistan and said the electricity was very unreliable. She baked a lot in her dutch oven. She said you need to lay a layer of sand in the bottom, then place inverted tuna cans over that. Place your bread pan on top of the tuna cans and cook at a low heat. Of course, you'll need a large dutch oven to do this.

Like others, I found that it is extremely helpful to have done all the cleaning and washing of clothes, dishes and house in advance in these types of scenarios where we have notice that a disaster is coming. Relieves a lot of stress.

I've also found that staying at home during these times seems to be extremely hard for most people. As soon as possible, most everyone wanted to be on the road going somewhere, anywhere. We are spoiled!
 

SageTheRage

Membership Revoked
THANK YOU for the review! This is the kind of thing that really makes this board valuable. Real-world, hands-on reviews.

DEFINITELY! Not only the reviews but all the 'tips' and 'advise' and the 'been there, done that' things to avoid as well. I have learned so much from TB2K in so many different prep areas. I cannot thank everyone enough for all their input!
 

A.T.Hagan

Inactive
biere said:
The only method of storage that will be most mother nature proof is in the ground. From having an underground shelter to simply digging a hole and burying some gas cans, underground has the best chance of surviving.

Now this advice comes from ohio and I do know the watertable in most areas getting these hurricanes would make this a pain. But maybe something in a hillside or whatever would work for some folks.

The car, the truck, the house, the shed, the garage, and most everything else is more vulnerable than something buried in the yard, and by buried I mean with a decent layer of dirt on top of it as well so it is protected.

Most ESPECIALLY for a hurricane I absolutely would not bury cans of fuel.

Once underground they will come under pressure from the local ground water. The more rain the storm puts down the more groundwater pressure there will be. You could easily end up with a lot of water in your fuel and possibly fuel in your groundwater.

Groundwater pressure is a problem for just about anything buried but fuel is gong to be especially sensitive to it.

.....Alan.
 

Angel Lady

Deceased
It's great to read all of the suggestions. There are a couple of things that I would do differently next time. I believe the number one thing for us would be to have more gas on hand. We had enough for our generator through Ivan, but if the power had been out too much longer we would have run out. And also, the lines for gas around here are unbelievable. I have never seen anything like it.

Another thing that I think I would do different is to buy more grilling meat. We have a generator so we were able to keep our frig and freezer going. I had plenty of canned goods, but we started wanting some real food pretty quick (yeah, we are spoiled). And I had not replenished my meat supply so we had nothing that we could grill. It was really ok this time but I think I might want to do that different for the next time (hope that is a very long time from now).

And we did need more lighting than we had (for the rooms that did not have generator lighting), so I will be looking into that.

One thing that made things more comfortable for us was having a room size airconditioner on hand. We had purchased it for an add on room that had no airconditioning vents (we purchased it last summer). We put it in the <a href="http://www.srch-results.com/lm/rtl.asp?k=living%20room" onmouseover="window.status='living room'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;">living room</a> window and closed off all the other rooms. Everyone just piled up in the living room to sleep. It really made things more bearable.


:angl:
 
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Doc1

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Try this...

A.T.Hagan said:
Most ESPECIALLY for a hurricane I absolutely would not bury cans of fuel.

Once underground they will come under pressure from the local ground water. The more rain the storm puts down the more groundwater pressure there will be. You could easily end up with a lot of water in your fuel and possibly fuel in your groundwater.

Groundwater pressure is a problem for just about anything buried but fuel is gong to be especially sensitive to it.

.....Alan.

If you have even modest welding and fitting skills, you might consider using decommissioned propane tanks for your fuel storage. These are often available from LP gas dealers in 150 and 250 gallon sizes very inexpensively. Get one that is still in good condition, but has been picked up from an ex-customer. There's no reason to get a rusty, corroded vone.
Actually, you don't really need anything other than a wrench to be able to store liquid fuel in them, but with a bit of welding and building an elevated cradle for them, they become much handier.
Thank God I haven't had to try it against severe hurricane winds (yet), but a propane tank welded to a strong angle iron cradle and sunk into a concrete pad should withstand extremely high winds. Additionally, they can be fitted with a threaded pipe cap (use brass for gasoline) to keep any flood waters out.
If you expect flood waters, be sure to top off the tank to reduce the bouyancy. Yes, diesel or gasoline are both lighter than water, but both are much heavier than air!

Best regards
Doc
 

Beetree

Veteran Member
The things I really liked and used a lot were: energizer LED head light (do not know if it is called a head light but that is what I call it) I LOVE this flash light! it has a soft stretchy band that goes around the head, freeing your hands! The LED light on it flips up and down or straight. Also has a red light you can turn on if you are walking around outside. The great thing is you have free hands and where ever you look, the light goes. I can't tell you HOW very much I used this light! I really do not know what I would have done with out it! Next: the 19 dollar small black and white TV - battery operated. Thank goodness I bought two big packs of C batteries well before the storm. I kept the TV on for hours and it never ran low on Bat. power. Next: Of all things the bicycle! Riding around the neighborhood and up into peoples driveways while they were working outside kept me informed. (no telephones!) Found out many things, like: details on generators, the phone trucks had been by, grocery store is open and has ICE, on and on! I also spread the news that I had heard!
 

A.T.Hagan

Inactive
I probably ought to pick up one of those LED headlights. There have been times when I really needed both hands doing something outside in the dark so I'd end up with my Mini-Mag in my mouth. Never can remember to take the little Mini-Mag headband with me so I'd probably forget the LED headlight too.

Be useful for shining up the rabbits in the pasture too. Seem to be growing quite a crop of them this year.

.....Alan.
 

night driver

ESFP adrift in INTJ sea
If you want to bake on a gas stove why not just get the Coleman stove top oven???

You can control the temp in it, and bake like any normal oven (more or less).

I've used ours on top of the Alpaca Kero stove, and it works fine.

C
 

A.T.Hagan

Inactive
The Hurricane Jeanne update.

Yet another hurricane this year to draw lessons from.

Would a moderator please be so kind as to modify the thread title again to read " [Prep] POST- <strong><i>Jeanne</i></strong>, Ivan, Frances & Charley Hurricane Prep Lessons Learned"?

Thanks!

Well, for a first in a life time of living in Florida we took significant damage to our home from a tropical storm. A tree fell and punched four holes in the roof, one of which was in our bathroom. Water immediately began to pour in through the hole, through the attic, and into the bathtub. I've got two feet of batting and blown in insulation up there that I was concerned would start soaking up that water not to mention the other damage it would do so the hole had to be covered right away.

Here are two lessons that I actually already knew but had not kept up with like I should have so had to relearn them. Maybe some folks here can profit from the mistakes of others.

The first is getting the chainsaw maintenanced regularly. I've got an extra chain, plenty of bar oil, fuel mix, gas, and so on. But there are certain items that wear from regular use, such as the dogs that engage the motor when you pull on the starter rope. I knew mine were getting close to needing replaced, but hadn't done it yet. Fortunately, the Sunday of the storm I had no problem cranking the saw so I was able to get the tree off the roof. This was partially because once cranked I never shut the saw off because with the wind blowing steady somewhere between 50-60 mph and higher gusts carrying intense rainfall with it so I was concerned that if it shut off it might not start again for being soaking wet. It was the next day after the storm when I wanted to get the part of the tree laying against the wall of the house removed that I couldn't get the saw to crank because the pulley wouldn't engage the motor. It was a twenty dollar repair that the mechanic had ready twenty four hours after I dropped it off, but it was lost time. The moral here is before the season starts get the saw maintenanced. I try to keep my serious sawing for the winter time, but from now on it'll be ready to go for serious work come June of every year. Chainsaws are part of the emergency equipment and thus must work the first time every time.

The second lesson is keeping a proper inventory of emergency gear. The food, fuel, water, weapons, communications, batteries, camping gear and so on I know how much of what I have and where it's at. My screw up here was my tarps. When the tree fell it punched a hole through the roof and ceiling over the bathtub which put it near to the outer wall of the house. The tarp has to cover from the ridge down to past the hole and be wide enough that water wouldn't seep in from the edge. Now I <i>knew</i> I had some large tarps, but when I had to find them on the run I couldn't. I came up with a half a dozen eight by ten tarps, but nothing larger and I needed at least a ten by twelve. Fortunately I was able to swipe the tarp we use for a pool cover that is ten by fourteen and use that. My carefully conserved and clean pool water is now full of leaves, but that's a small price to pay for keeping water out of the attic. I still think I've got some larger tarps somewhere in my McGee's Closet of a workshop, but as I can't lay hands on them it's the same as not having them at all. Next year I'll damn sure include these things in my physical inventory. Holes in the roof in a driving storm is a recipe for major interior water damage so big tarps should be considered emergency equipment. During the storm you won't be able to run out and buy one and immediately after the fact there may be none to buy. Get some now, keep them on hand, and know where they are when you need them when minutes count. I'll have more concrete blocks on hand too. The two dozen I used to weight the tarp down with included some I had to scrounge out of places like my wood rick, gate, and so on.


Non-home damage related lessons that we learned from Jeanne.

This time around we didn't try to keep the refrigerator chilled. Once the storm knocked out the power we moved everything we wanted to keep into the pre-prepared coolers and anything else that couldn't take being left on the counter we tossed - maybe five bucks worth of seldom used stuff. A bucket of water with Lysol and bleach and a cloth and we wiped the insides of the refrigerator and refrigerator freezer then left a bleach soaked rag inside with the doors closed. No spoiled food and stinking refrigerators to deal with and didn't have to run extension cords to keep it chilled using the gen-set. I had emptied the refrigerator freezer the night before and filled it with the spare plastic food containers filled with water to freeze. By the next day they were frozen solid and I used them in two of the three coolers. Could have used them in all three coolers, but we'd also bought some ice the day before so didn't need to. Next time we'll probably not buy any ice. Didn't have to touch the ice in the chest freezer at all which meant it stayed frozen longer than it would have otherwise.

We solved the bathing problem with a very simple device. A one-quart yogurt cup with eight holes drilled in the bottom in a ring. Each hole was 1/8th inch in diameter and I think 3/32 would have been better still. Each person got one four gallon bucket of warm water in the tub with them. Scoop the cup full of water and hold it over your head. It runs out slowly enough to make maximum use of the water flow while still getting the soap off. Could have taken a good bath on just three gallons of water to include washing my hair and shaving, but I splurged and used the entire four gallon bucket (the square detergent buckets we get from the grocery). Between one quart to a half-gallon of boiling water will warm up the remaining three and a half gallons of cold water enough to make it pleasant to bathe with. Would have preferred to bathe on the back porch to keep the humidity out of the house, but after Frances the mosquitoes have gotten so bad that after dark we simply had to use the tub in the bathroom out of self-preservation! The yogurt cup was actually a Model Two. The first was a margarine container that I'd drilled about a dozen quarter inch holes in, but that allowed the water to flow out too fast to make the most efficient use of it.

Since we had the luxury of advance warning we cooked a number of meals like stews, casseroles, and soups, then froze them in sealed plastic containers. These were used as part of our cooler ice until they were needed. A simple reheat on the camp stove and we had a real home cooked meal without the fuss and mess of preparing one from scratch after the power went down. We had actually cooked these for the approach of hurricane Ivan, but he went to the Panhandle instead of here so they were still in the freezer. MREs and Dinty Moore are OK if you are caught by surprise, but if I have the time to prepare in advance I prefer home cooking. Next time I'll freeze the meals in slightly smaller amounts so that we won't have any left overs, but it's hard to judge. If I've been sitting on my butt reading a book waiting for the storm to blow out I won't usually have seconds or thirds. If I spent the last four or five hours on the roof with the chainsaw in the wind and rain protecting the house then I may have thirds on the stew and a big stack of Oreos for dessert to boot!

To my surprise on the Friday before Jeanne arrived my local Target had three of the Coleman 8 D-cell lanterns that I've been wanting to try out so I bought one. These things are set up to take either 8 D-cells or two six-volt lantern batteries. I keep D-cells so that's what I used. We'll be buying one of the 4 D-cell lanterns as well (shorter) because they work well. The low setting is plenty for giving you enough light to see to get dressed, bathed, wash dishes and so on. On high it's bright enough to read and write with. Coleman claims 18 hours of operation on high, twenty seven (I think) on low. One caveat though is to buy at least one spare fluorescent bulb when you get the lantern. I was rather surprised that one of mine is already going bad. I think it's just a bad tube and not an indicator of short work life because fluorescent anything usually lasts a long time if not abused.


Anyone else have lessons from Jeanne they want to share?

Or maybe lessons from other hurricanes this year or in years past?

.....Alan.
 

fairbanksb

Freedom Isn't Free
I can attest to the chainsaw maintenance, or lack there of. I was on the roof attempting to remove the canopy's of two large trees that had fallen on it. I gave the rope a yank and it came off in my hand. I tried to repair the problem myself and only ended up making matters worse. The recoil spring, sprung. Not fun. One chainsaw in the shop for repair. I borrowed an electric chainsaw from a neighbor and while not expecting much, I was extremely surprised. It was a Remington 16" chainsaw with 3.5hp. I cut down and cut up 2, 3ft diameter birch trees with absolutely no problems. Each tree was about 40 ft. tall. I went out an bought one. Next time I will have my gas powered and the electric. I do have a genny so lack of electricity is not a problem.
 

Beetree

Veteran Member
Great thread! On my list now are TARPS, prepared home cooked soups etc. frozen, and the Rem. 16", 3.5 chainsaw! Thanks to all who take the time to share helpful information! Thank YOU!
 
RC said:
But keep in mind that some dammed fool might be running his generator into the house wiring without turning off the main breaker! It's probably not a large risk--chances are, he would have fried something at his end by now if he had done that, but it is something to keep in mind.
Besides being dangerous for the line workers, if there are any other houses on that same section of powerline (very likely unless the lines are really torn up around you) a generator connected to the utility will be loaded down with the other houses and most likely overload itself quite severely and should at least pop an output breaker on the generator itself. Now if the wires are laying on the wet ground and not sparking they are probably safe, but always check before touching any wires. If you don't know how, then leave them alone.:shkr:

Other thoughts, when using a generator to run fridges and freezers, try running it for and hour or two at a time, then two or three hours off. Most fridges and freezers won't need to run continuously and some of your genny time will be totally wasted. Let them cool down, turn it off, they warm up enough to want to come on, then give them the juice. Haven't charted the usage of my units yet, should do it so I can report on it. If they are full of food or ice bottles, it will be several hours before they really need to run again. If you are thinking about extra insulation around one of these, be aware of the condenser coils, (those black wiry grill thingies in the back) don't cover them, you will just be trapping the heat inside when it runs. If you don't have coils on the back, they are built into the outer shell, which gets warm when running. Don't attempt to over insulate these units unless they won't be running at all.

In one of the Hurricane Ivan related threads Swampthing mentioned the undesirability of buying gas from the bottom of a station's tank.
I think you are always getting gas from the bottom of the tank, that's where the pump inlet is, any water will always be on the bottom, but the inlet is a little above that. If something is floating on top of the gas, that might be a problem.

You know, all this talk about lighting, combined with the fact that in a real, permanent EOTWAWKI situation beeswax, oils, and fats of all kinds would be expensive and hard to come by, really points up the fact that lifestyles and habits would have to drastically change if that happened. We can do battery lanterns or Coleman lanterns, or candles, in a temporary emergency, because we know that it will end in a few hours or a few days, and we'll be able to replace the batteries or the fuel or the candles. But in a permanent "emergency" we would have to adapt to working during daylight hours and sleeping in the dark hours, with maybe an hour or so of contemplating the firelight in climates where it isn't too warm to have a fire. Candles used to be, and may someday again be, strictly for beekeepers and the well-to-do (and the beekeepers probably won't burn candles for their own use when they can sell them to the rich for much-needed cash). Poor folks will have to make do with rush lights or pitch torches, or, if they have some spare fat that they don't need for cooking or soap they might have a betty lamp. So, appreciate that electricity when it comes back on!
biggrin.gif


Kathleen

Sounds like we have a fellow Peak-Oiler on the board, Howdy
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A.T.Hagan

Inactive
Profit,

We've found that the freezer stays more consistently frozen by running the gen-set in the morning and in the afternoon.

In the other places that I've lived the freezer was in a more protected location so it wasn't as apparent because we'd run the gen-set for two or three hours and everything would stay frozen hard until the same time the next day when we'd do it again.

But here at DunHagan our freezer is in a south facing carport. Not a great location, but the only practical place I have to put it at this time. Even completely full of ice running the gen-set two or three hours straight once a day was allowing the stuff on top in the freezer to become mushy which I found to be unacceptable. Now I run the gen-set for an hour to an hour and a half in the morning and the same in the later afternoon and evening and everything has stayed hard frozen.

One day I'll be able to put the freezer in a better location and may be able to cut down the gen-set run time.


As I was cleaning them all out yesterday and putting stuff back in our refrigerator it occurred to me there was another useful lesson to pass along. We have a several coolers at the house acquired at one time or another. Two of them are fifty quart plastic Colemans that we got on sale at the local Winn Dixie for something like ten bucks apiece and the third is a seventy quart 'five day' Coleman picked up on sale at the local ChinaMart.

After two hurricanes in close succession it has become plain the 'five day' cooler keeps ice much longer than the regular Colemans - noticeably longer here in out late summer Florida conditions. I had thought this five day business was so much marketing hype, but there does seem to be something to it. I'm still not quite buying it'll keep ice for five days at 90 degrees, but it keeps ice longer than the normal cheapo Colemans.

One of these days I need to build a cooler out of really thick sheet Styrofoam if I can think of a good way to waterproof the joints.

.....Alan.
 

RC

Inactive
After two hurricanes in close succession it has become plain the 'five day' cooler keeps ice much longer than the regular Colemans - noticeably longer here in out late summer Florida conditions. I had thought this five day business was so much marketing hype, but there does seem to be something to it. I'm still not quite buying it'll keep ice for five days at 90 degrees, but it keeps ice longer than the normal cheapo Colemans.

On a camping message board I visit, the consensus seems to be that they actually live up to the claims if you follow the instructions. The best strategy I saw was from someone who was dry camping for a couple of weeks. He packed one of these coolers with nothing but ice, with dry ice packed in the center. When the ice is gone in the first cooler, he transfers the ice out of the second one. He reported that the dry ice is evaporated completely, but the ice is still there.
 

Seabird

Veteran Member
We were hit by Charlie, Frances, and Jeanne (& Bonnie one day before Charlie, which was only a tropical storm, but wet, nonetheless, and a set-up for the trouble to come.) We lost power with Charlie (one day), but Frances was a dilly.

I run a little school in the country where most of our children and their families are numbered among the working poor. Our school operates on well water--which means no power: then no water, no showers, no potties, period. We were without power for weeks. (We lost thousands of dollars in meat alone. )

When we finally did open, we became a center for all of our families who did not yet have power. Our shower/ bathtub was very popular. And we offered our kitchen facilities for those who needed it. My staff and I did what we could to convince these families to get some kind of barbecue--even a hibaci is better than nothing, and those cost as little as $5. Even sterno cans can make great coffee, boil water, cook meat, etc.

When Jeanne was threatening, our families got it together and began to gather what they could afford. Now, six days since Jeanne hit, these families are still without power, but they are enjoying themselves. They created their own port-a-poddies, they are cooking on something outside, and they are going to bed and waking up with the sun. No generators, no expensive anything. Just nature in the raw.

We really are spoiled as a generation. But a little less so in NorthEast Florida this season, and a little more appreciative. I'm glad to have had a place to say this.

Thank you. :)
Seabird
 

fairbanksb

Freedom Isn't Free
Well said Seabird,
Help your neighbors. Spread your prep information with them. Your neighbor in turn could be the one to help you. As a result of hurricane Ivan, I now have two neighbors who swear that they will have generators before next season. No real reason to hide your genny and keep it muffled if half your neighborhood has them. More than a few of us are armed, which makes it easier to protect your little corner of the world. One neighbor had a come-along and another had a pole saw. I wouldn't have been able to remove a couple of large trees without their equipment or their help. Saved alot of money by not having to hire someone to take the trees out, too.
 

Stephen

Inactive
Good post, Seabird!

It's my own opinion (and that of others I've talked to about this) that it isn't so much that we're spoiled (we are), but that we live in a time and place where the entire system is built on the assumption that power is available 24/7. I've discussed this with my 90-year-old father who didn't have electricity on their farm until he was away at college. They managed just fine because that's the way their "system" was set up. Water came from working the pump on the well. Light came from kerosene lamps, Food was canned or salted or otherwise preserved since there was no refrigeration. He completely agreed that the most important factor is what your system/infrastructure is based on, and how that is affected by the loss. The "soft and spoiled" aspect is secondary to that.

It's easy and tempting to say that being without power is such a shock because we're soft and spoiled. Yes, we ARE soft and spoiled, but that's beside the point. Any time someone is in an environment that has radically shifted from the norm, lives will be disrupted - regardless of how soft or hard or spoiled or rugged they are. We are a product of our environment.

My cousin and I have discussed our experiences with the hurricanes, and he made a good point on this. He said that he found that he really didn't need refrigeration (or freezer) as much as he might have thought. He had been moving toward a regular diet that consisted mainly of things that don't require any refrigeration. He will continue working toward the point where the lack of power for refrigeration would have no effect on his diet and eating habits. Good idea.
 

Seabird

Veteran Member
Stephen,

Excellent point. We live in a time when our economy is based on making things easier and more convenient. The more dependent we are on companies to get through, the more the economy grows. And this is not a bad thing overall. It is our economy which supports the good things the U.S. does, and can do.

But this dependence has a detrimental side-effect that is similar to a co-dependence, an addiction--if you will, which is not healthy. My nineteen-year-old son pegged it when he said that he felt handicapped without electricity.

Watching all of these people who didn't have much before the storms, but had nothing after the storms has been educational. They adapted better to the circumstances because they didn't have that much to loose. And dare I say, they seemed happier without all of the trappings power brings--that is after the shock of not having it subsided.

We are so dependent on others to survive that we are interdependent. For our food, our clothes, all of the necessities--and again this was how our economy got so strong. But--God forbid--we get hit with some major disaster (be that natural or manmade) and we will be in trouble. We need to be able to provide for ourselves better.

This has been the lesson this past month and a half. It took four hurricanes and a tropical storm to wake us up. We are awake now, and paying attention to the lessons.

This is a great thread, Alan. Truly.
Seabird.
 

Beer980

Inactive
I purchased a pole saw attachment for my weed eater before Frances. While nothing compare to a chainsaw these little guys can cut. I did quite a bit of damage to the trees on my driveway with that 8 inch chainsaw.
 

Vector

Veteran Member
Dennis Olson said:
Got juice...?

<img src="http://www.timebomb2000.com/Mbrs_pics/DJO/Genny1.jpg">


Nice genny you have there, o mighty Chieftain! I am thinking about getting something similar, but I do have one concern. Aren't you worried that in an extended power outage, say more than two weeks, some of your previously civilized neighbors would be tempted to, ahem, appropriate your generator for their own use. It looks rather exposed where it is.
 

Stephen

Inactive
Vector said:
... Aren't you worried that in an extended power outage, say more than two weeks, some of your previously civilized neighbors would be tempted to, ahem, appropriate your generator for their own use. It looks rather exposed where it is.
My guess is that neighbors would probably not have a forklift handy. A generator of that size usually needs heavy equipment to move. At the very least, stealing it would take a lot of time - nothing that could be done quietly.

Just my opinion. I await Dennis' reply on that one though.
 

Beer980

Inactive
We are about to have a house built and we are having a 15kw like that installed. It will run off propane and they say it is as quiet as the air conditioner. Shipping weight is 487 lbs. Run time with a full tank should be 2 weeks.
 

JohnGaltfla

#NeverTrump
Beer980 said:
We are about to have a house built and we are having a 15kw like that installed. It will run off propane and they say it is as quiet as the air conditioner. Shipping weight is 487 lbs. Run time with a full tank should be 2 weeks.

FYI, for your own good, make sure it's bolted down good and if possible inside a locked box of some sort. My friend's down here are telling me that generator theft (can you freaking believe it) is common as the crooks just can't resist.
 

Beer980

Inactive
JohnGaltfla there have been several thefts here in our county. One made the paper as the person was a special needs patient. Police took the info and said they doubt the people would ever see that generator again. I don't think ours will be the first one that they try to steal. I think there will be plenty of smaller and more portable one's for them.
 

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A.T.Hagan

Inactive
AA to D or C cell adaptors.

Found this on another board and thought it would be a good addition to our hurricane prep thread here.

As many of us know when ever a storm even threatens to blow in there is a great raid on the local battery supply with the D-cells usually being the first thing to go.

So, what if you need D-cells but can't get any? Well, from my observations here in the Gainesville area there may be no D-cells but often enough one could find AAs though you may have to look a bit.

Enter the AA to D-cell adapter!

http://aventrade.com/baad.html

<i>Use 4 standard AA size batteries to convert to a D size battery. Will run on 1, 2, 3 or 4 batteries (parallel connection). Can be used with rechargeable or non-rechargeable batteries. 4AADpad $3.25pad

Use 1 standard AA size batteries to convert to a D size battery. Can be used with rechargeable or non-rechargeable batteries. 1AADpad$2.25pad

Use 1 standard AA size batteries to convert to a C size battery. Can be used with rechargeable or non-rechargeable batteries. 1AACpad$2.25pad</i>

Let me add a caveat here: I do NOT have personal experience with these adaptors so cannot speak to how well they work. But they look simple enough.

Any other sources of these things that anyone knows of?

.....Alan.
 

RC

Inactive
I have a couple of sets of adapters like these:

http://sciplus.com/singleItem.cfm?j...n=13&terms=6571&cartLogFrom=Jarvis Recommends

This link doesn't have a photo, so I'm not sure if mine is identical or not. The one in your link seems to be a bit more substantial.

My experience with these cheap ones is that they are very handy to have around, but the battery does have a tendency to snap out of position. But if you need one D cell and all you can find is one C cell, they are very nice to have.
 
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