Medical Poppies For The Serious Prepper

Hfcomms

EN66iq
LOL

I read the thread title and I thought I read Puppies for the serious prepper. I was thinking what in the heck do I need puppies for.
 

Freeholder

This too shall pass.
Thanks, Terrwyn, this is something I'd been thinking about. I do wonder about the legality of growing these types of poppies, though -- I remember a story from years back about an ignorant LEO who destroyed an elderly lady's garden because she had some ornamental poppies that weren't even related to the opium poppies growing in it.

Hfcomms, LOL! My eyes did that to me, too!

Kathleen
 

LC

Veteran Member
Um, uh, most of the said flowers on that site are not suitable for medical use. My understanding is that only p. soniferium (sp) is used. There are some of those on that site.
 

ReneeT

Veteran Member
I love poppies! My Granny had several varieties; 'bout time I started growing some :)

I read 'puppies' too lol!
 

summerthyme

Administrator
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Yes, they need to be papaver somniferum. However, "peony flowered" poppies ARE somniferum, but often aren't labeled as such.

From everything I've read, it's legal to grow them, but NOT to harvest any of the latex. However, simply growing them for "dried flower decorations", and storing the pods will give you potential pain relief if needed. Grinding up 2-3 pods (THIS IS ILLEGAL, and can be DANGEROUS... I'm telling how it's done, NOT recommending you do it!!) and making a tea from them will give you a solid dose of mixed opiod alkaloids. The dried pods contain around 1-2% morphine, and lesser amounts of codiene, thebaine and other alkaloids.

Summerthyme
 

Freeholder

This too shall pass.
Yes, they need to be papaver somniferum. However, "peony flowered" poppies ARE somniferum, but often aren't labeled as such.

From everything I've read, it's legal to grow them, but NOT to harvest any of the latex. However, simply growing them for "dried flower decorations", and storing the pods will give you potential pain relief if needed. Grinding up 2-3 pods (THIS IS ILLEGAL, and can be DANGEROUS... I'm telling how it's done, NOT recommending you do it!!) and making a tea from them will give you a solid dose of mixed opiod alkaloids. The dried pods contain around 1-2% morphine, and lesser amounts of codiene, thebaine and other alkaloids.

Summerthyme
That's good to know just in case. Do you know where to find the information on dosages to make it a little safer?

Kathleen
 

summerthyme

Administrator
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Dafodil... I suspect it may be impossible where you live. Poppies hate hot weather... healthy, thriving plants almost melt when it hits 95°. Plus, they only sprout in COLD soil (at least very cool)... planting when soil temps are 70° or higher is a waste of time. And NEVER bother trying to transplant them... no matter how careful, even using something like Jiffy pellets, they simply don't transplant.

In warmer areas (places with mild winters like Oregon and Washington state) they often plant them in the fall; they go to a vegetative "cabbage" state, overwinter and then begin growing in earliest spring. That way they mature before the hot weather ruins them. That wouldn't work in our climate- winters are WAY too cold. So the only way we can grow them (we love poppy seed buns and poppy seed filling in baked goods) is to plant as early as possible in the Spring, and pray that June doesn't get too hot, too fast.

Kathleen... it's really difficult to be any more accurate than what I've written. What you need to do is grind dry pods (shake out the seeds first... they don't contain any active ingredients, and they're great for baking, planting again, or making poppy seed oil if you have an oil press). Weigh the coarse powder you get (this takes a POWERFUL machine... a VitaMix type. If you don't have something like that, I'd suggest a hammer and maybe a mortar and pestle; you'd almost certainly ruin any food processor you tried these in). You can figure that for every gram of powder, it will contain APPROXIMATELY 10-20 milligrams of morphine, plus smaller amounts of codiene and other alkaloids.

If the average oral dosage for morphine is 50 milligrams... you can go from there.

In real life, it's probably best to make a tea and SIP it slowly, starting with a low amount and seeing what effects it has. Actually, given the variability of pod strength due to weather, climate, soil, varieties, etc, I'd suggest that anyone wishing to have some on hand for 'emergencies' do some experimenting ahead of time, so as to have some idea of how your particular supply affects you.

No, I'm not suggesting "recreational" use (never did see any "fun" in taking opiates for pain, to be honest), but understanding the strength of your product before you suddenly need to use it for, say, a toothache that suddenly comes up on a holiday weekend, is going to be important.

And of course, as always- this stuff IS addictive (although people taking it only for actual pain issues have a very low rate of addiction, per se... however, physical dependence if you use it daily WILL happen). And it WILL show up in a drug test. And it will interact with any other CNS depressants (alcohol, benzodiazpines, antihistamines, etc) and too much of both WILL kill you. Everything I've written here is for information only, and is NOT a recommendation to engage in illegal activity!

I would suggest if you want to grow some, to plant more than one variety, so it looks more like a flower garden, and less like a "crop". While there may well be differences in latex yields between the "decorative" varieties and the ones grown commercially in Afghanistan, if you're not trying to actually harvest opium, that shouldn't make much difference.

I had to laugh... on one of the "reality" shows on TV, they were showing bear damage to one of the cast's garden... and while panning over the carrots and potatoes the crittur had dug up, they showed several rows of some nice, mature poppy pods. I wonder if any of the TV crew knew what they were?

Summerthyme
 

spinner

Senior Member
Summerthyme, I live in a very cold area also and papaver somniferum do best if planted in the fall. The seeds need the cold treatment to germinate. I have to pull hundreds, maybe thousands of plants out of my vegetable garden every spring from the seeds that I miss collecting in the fall. I had some in my flower bed years ago and they went wild. They do not sprout in the fall and winter over they stay dormant until spring and then the light green little sprouts are everywhere. Once they start growing they don't seem to mind the hot weather they just need the cold to germinate. I don't know for sure, but POSSIBLY they need light to germinate also.

Dafodil, you might be able to cold treat the seeds by mixing them with potting soil or sand and then freezing them for a week or two before planting them in their permanent location. Just make sure they are sealed well so they don't dry out in the freezer.

The leaves are actually quite nice and "lettuce-y" in a salad. I love the flowers, I always leave a lot of the plants for the bees, they really go crazy (quite literally) for the flowers. When I go out to the garden in the morning the poppies are full of honey bees, bumble bees and every other kind of bee. The most fun to watch are the bumble bees, they get so covered in pollen and seem to be quite intoxicated. They fall over on their backs, kick and squirm and buzz like mad inside the flowers.

I use the seeds in cooking. Yesterday for Sunday dinner I made a big salad with a poppy seed dressing using my poppy seeds and lemon juice from my lemon tree.
 

Hfcomms

EN66iq
Not to mention that any kind of opiate will plug up the large intestine and give you the mother of all constipation. No way I would go near the stuff unless I was hurting really badly.
 

summerthyme

Administrator
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Well, the constipation problem *can* be difficult. However, during the entire 14 months I was on heavy doses of opiates while undergoing multiple surgeries for MRSA osteomylitis, I didn't have any problems with my digestive tract at all... as long as I ate half a dozen pitted dried prunes every day! Adequate fiber and fluid intake will prevent most problems.

And I think, rather obviously, that none of this stuff should be used unless someone IS "hurting really badly". Mild to moderate pain is much better handled with aspirin or one of the stronger NSAIDS.

Summerthyme
 

Hfcomms

EN66iq
I know the only time I had morphine was in 2003 when I did a kidney donation. I hit the self administered I.V. happy plunger quite a few times that really dulled the pain. But then a few days later I discovered the plumbing was all backed up. At the time I didn't realize the morphine . s l o w s . down more stuff than just the pain receptors. Didn't enjoy the experience. Matter of fact I think that Immodium is a mild opiate type compound without the pain relief effect to control diarrhea.
 

summerthyme

Administrator
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Yes, you're right... immodium IS an opiate, but it doesn't pass the blood/brain barrier, hence no "high" or pain relief from it. However, it's pretty darned effective against diarrhea.

The hospital/nurses are *supposed to* keep a close eye on bowel habits, etc in patients on pain meds, and should NEVER let it go "a few days" before treating the bowel slow-down. Because it can lead to a complete impaction, which is no fun at all!

As long as someone can take anything by mouth while using opiate pain meds, either prune juice or prunes will prevent the issue from occuring. If someone absolutely hates prunes, "fiber forming" laxatives are second best.

Summerthyme
 
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