Oral health

[Trek]

I think it was Conrad on another thread that triggered this thought of mine.

My teeth are troublesome to say the least. Brushing, flossing, and medicated mouthwashes don't seem to be enough to avoid infection. I don't get abscesses or red & bleeding gums. There are no cavities evident. What I do get are infections below the gum line along my jaw bone. Apparently the bacteria travels down there between my teeth were no floss can reach.

This has been going on for so long that I've become better than the doctor at identifying an infection. My secret... a lymph node in the back right side of my neck swells up and becomes hard. Off to the doctor who checks everything and gives me antibiotics saying I have an ear or sinus infection that most likely originated in my jaw.

So... I'm thinking that it might make sense to proactively remove the source of the infection. If TSHTF it could be extremely hard to obtain antibiotics and dental care. Whether from a shortage of antibiotics, oral surgeons, or just the money to pay for what I need... I have been warned often enough to stay on top of these infections. Delaying treatment could easily mean death because of the infection being so near to the brain.

Not to mention all the other health problems being blamed on bad teeth. Heart disease for one. Respiratory infections, sinus infections, ear infections, and deadly infections reaching the brain are just a few more I can think of off the top of my head.

If you know you have a chronic health condition that would become life threatening if unable to obtain proper medical care at the right time, and you can do something to eliminate that risk... wouldn't you do it as a preparedness measure for expected rough times?

 

[Reborn]

I've got the same problems with my teeth/gums. I'm still trying to decide what to do also.

 

[Relic]

Considerations

1. HAve the bacteria ever been cultured?
Often docs will "Shotgun", assuming that what has "worked" in the past will "work" again- the fallacy inherent in this is that if it HAD worked in the past, it wouldn't have come back!
2. Pinpoint the origin. It might take a CT scan.
if the bug is coming from drainage from the sinus cavity, there are ways to reduce the number and types of bacteria via such things as sinus washes- have you tried these?
3.It's not hype- the newest generation of ultrsonic toothbrushes really do get "below the gums and stimulate healthy growth"- consider the investment.
4. If you are a smoker- QUIT. Right now. That's it.

 

[Trek]

I don't believe the bacteria has ever been cultured. I've had multiple CT scans and MRI's of the head done, but if they are not looking for a particular thing, they wont find it.

Like when they did a chest xray looking for pneumonia. A vertebrae (sp?) was plainly twisted (tilted?) at a 40 degree angle. No mention of it in the radiologist's report, but my doctor caught it. "Gee... think that could be the cause of all that pain in your right arm?" I was polite and did not say "duh".

I couldn't afford one of those ultrasonic toothbrushes the last time I thought about them, but I can now so thanks for the reminder! It can't hurt to try them, and unless the electricity fails beyond my backup measures or I'm on the go... it just might make the difference.

No problem on the smoking bit. Doesn't apply here. Too darn expensive both financially and health wise!

Reborn, you and I will need to let each other know when either of us finally makes a decision. It could help whoever is still holding off on making the decision!

 

[Reborn]

My docs/dentists haven't ever done any cultures. I've also had the MRI's, CT scans.
I've never smoked, and I have been using one of those expensive ultrasonic toothbrushes for over a year now. I even used one of those waterpic type things for many months. Nothing ever seems to work, and before long, I've got another infection. I floss, brush, and do all the stuff that they tell ya to do, sigh. So yeah, I've been thinking about this long and hard.

 

[John H]

Two things more than you are doing...

Buy a bottle of 60 mg Coenzyme Q-10 from the supplements section of your drug store. With a little luck, you'll feel your gums tightening up in just a few days. CoQ-10 is a natural substance in the body that declines with age and that roughly corresponds to people having increasing problems with their gums. In higher doses, it is also good for certain heart conditions such as shortness of breath, etc. but you should only do that with your doc's blessing. Do a google for more information. Once the situation improves, you can probably decrease it to 30 mg.

After you clean your teeth and floss, while your gums are healing, rinse your mouth with warm salty water and swish it around a bit. That will toughen the gums and reduce inflamation and discomfort.



John H

 

[Reborn]

Thanks John. I'll give those two options a try.

 

[Gitche Gumee Kid]

Trek/Reborn,

My advice is to see a periodontist.( a dentist which specializes in periodontal diseases---aka gum disease ) You two probably have some deep pockets around some of your teeth. This condition will flair up then go dormant for awhile . but each subsequent flair up will usually be more severe.with gradual loosening of the tooth or teeth with increasing discomfort with each new episode.

Best Rergards,
GGK

 

[housemouse]

Something else you might want to try before seeing the periodontist is getting a special tip for your water-pic that you use to squirt half listerine half water into the deep pockets in your teeth. The regular tip will not do, it has to be the one designed for just that.

 

[gunnersmom]

food grade hydrogen peroxide would help also.

 

[Deemy]

I use the coq10 but the biggest thing that worked was goldenseal drops. I put about 6-8 drops in aabout enough water to just swish aroung the mouth... taste nasty but after three months of the stuff I find I actually don't mind the taste at all. Also are you aware that gum infection will lead to heart attacks? Yup, the infection heads straight to the heart

 

[thread]

I've had this same issue for ten years, and even with faithfully using a waterpik every day, I can't clear it up permanently. Collodial silver or peroxide mixed in with the water in the waterpik helps - but only until the next time I chew on that side.

Just yesterday I scheduled the extraction of the two offending teeth, and had the impressions taken to add to an existing partial. The problem is actually a gum issue, but I'm not going that gum surgery route. I haven't heard good things about that surgery.

I had a couple of back teeth pulled many years ago for this same problem, and the partial I got is great. I don't know if it's my particular dentist's artistry, or just luck, but I've had no problems with it. I would do this again any day - rather than live with chronic infection. Even though I have no obvious signs of infection in my mouth, I have indications of it in my glands on that side, my ear and sinuses.

I'm glad you brought this up. It's a serious prep concern right now.

 

[Mineymoe]

I learned some good tips from "Good teeth-Birth to Death" - Gerald Judd (I think)
Brushing with Ivory soap kills the bacteria and pain. Use clove tincture at the same time, or separately.
Avoid flouride; (all toothpaste)this is what causes the gums to "peel" away from teeth, because it destroys the enzyme that holds them.
Don't let acid stay on the teeth.

 

[inskanoot]

Mineymoe,

interesting comment about fluoride toothpaste. My teeth and gums are much healthier since I stopped using fluoride toothpaste.

Regarding the coenzyme Q10, there should be tons in the archives about it. Important to take with some type of fat. Dosage is based on your weight and therapeutic level. Now Brand is good and cheap. Heart docs use it with their sickest patients. It is fine with coumadin.

 

[Jazzdad]

Just yesterday I scheduled the extraction of the two offending teeth, and had the impressions taken to add to an existing partial. The problem is actually a gum issue, but I'm not going that gum surgery route. I haven't heard good things about that surgery.

Well, modern gum surgery is not too bad. In the old days it was pretty brutal.

My periodontist cleared up a bad section of my mouth that was heading for infection. He makes a cut in the soft pallet of the upper jaw and folds back the skin. New tissue comes from under the skin and is sutured to the problem gum. Then the skin is sutured closed. Within one week everything is healed and the sutures are removed.

This cleared up all cold sensitivity in my teeth and they feel like new again. Don't listen to folks that had gum surgery 5-10 years ago. The new techniques are really a big improvement. The only problem is that it is expensive.

I also use a couple of drops of tea tree oil on my toothbrush when I feel my gums might be a little inflamed. It tastes bad but really cuts the plaque and disinfects the gums. You can also buy tea tree oil toothpaste.

 

[Onebyone]

Not saying this is your problem but maybe you should check into it.

Last Tuesday I had to have a molar pulled. I thought it was cracked as it hurt so bad. I found out in addition the bone was deteriating and that was causing an infection and pain plus making the tooth loose.

Since I have been in the low income level I have been for over a decade I have not been able to go to the denist for regular cleanings. I clean my teeth with tooth brush and floss, some years it was just two pieces of thread as couldn't even afford floss

Anyway it seems I got a calcium build up on the back of my tooth below the gum line that was wearing the bone away and causing the infection. They showed it to me on the xray. It looked liked a little nub on the back side of my tooth. They didn't offer to take it off, I guess since my gum was so sore.

However, being the take charge kind of person I am when I got home even though my gum and tooth hurt like crazy I took my little one dollar dental pick I got at the dollar store, sterlized it, worked it behind the tooth in question and scraped upward on the tooth several times. It hurt bad so I had to stop for a few mins. While I was recovering from the pain sitting in my chair I bit down on the tooth to try to relieve some of the pain maybe. When I did I felt something in the back of my mouth. Apparently I had gotten the nub loose enough and it came out. It is a hard little thing, almost like a small thin rock.

Just a suggestion that you may have one of those nubs on the back of your tooth causing the problem. If you like you could try the pick going down under at the back side and scrapping up several times. I washed my mouth with peroxide afterward to try to keep any more infection down but they had me on antibiotics anyway.

 

[shane]

Couple toothy notes...

My 74 yo Mother has amazed her dentist with the improvement of her gums, so much so that he has cancelled upcoming treatment, due solely to her use of Q10, all on her own.

"Where There Is No Dentist" is worthwhile getting for when TSHTF. Find it at www.amazon.com here...
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0942364058/104-6847519-2630314?v=glance&n=283155

We all know teeth and gum problems can be deadly, besides painful, without treatment when TSHTF and you are on your own. So, getting everything done beforehand that you possibly can is not only prudent, but may be difference between later survival, or not.

This is a little radical, but read recently about a dentist 70 years ago that prior to leaving Germany permanently for his final retirement and retreat on an isolated Galapagos island removed all his teeth and had a full top & bottom set of stainless steel chompers made which, according to locals, served him well all his remaining life glistening away around the camp fire as he tore into his food.

That's going a little too far, removing even good teeth, but beats going through what Tom Hanks inflicted upon himself with that ice skate blade portrayed there in that movie; "Cast Away"!

- Shane

 

[Reborn]

Thanks for all the tips, folks. My dentist says I don't have pockets. When they measure my gums the readings are 1's and a couple of 2's. My gums aren't red, and they don't bleed. But I do keep getting infections. Go figure.

I'm pretty much doing (or have tried) most of the suggestions on this thread. I haven't used a floride toothpaste for years. I googled that CoQ10 stuff, and I read several warnings saying that folks who are hypoglycemic should NOT take it. So, now I don't know about using that cause I have pretty bad hypoglycemia.

 

[Mother Love]

A few days ago my husband's back tooth broke off and now he has to go and
get it fixed in a few days.

It's really giving him pain. He takes Tylenol and the pain goes away for awhile
but always comes back. Poor baby.

Anyway...What's a person to do after/during a SHTF?

Pull it?!! File it?!!

Denistry after SHTF is going to drive me !!!!!!!!

 

[WonderWhy]

Toothpaste replacement

The serious issues that Trek and Reborn are discussing are beyond my ken, and I hope they find good solutions, but I will offer one thing for after TSHTF that I learned by experiment.

Instead of using toothpaste, for six months I brushed with baking soda. It cleans your teeth fine. I remembered in my childhood, once we ran out of toothpaste and my mom mixed baking soda and salt - half and half - for our temporary use. I learned why when I went for my six month checkup and the hygenist reported that I had a lot of plaque which I had not ever had before. It seems that the salt in the toothcleaning mixture reduces pathogens in your mouth.

So if you're ever out of toothpaste, mix your baking soda with salt for good oral hygiene use.

 

[Ozarkian]

I have been hurting for the past 10 days. I went to the dentist and he said I have a pocket with abcess at tooth #18. He said its near the jaw bone, back tooth on lower left. He put me on 500 mg pinacillin and it finally started to get better the last couple of days. He gave me a hydrocodone prescription for the pain and they didn't even touch it. I was totally miserable for several days and had absolutley no sleep a couple of nights. With the pain pills plus 2 or 3 Advils I finally got a little rest. The dentist won't pull it as I am on Plavix (blood thinner+ 2 aspirin a day), Thats because I've had two stints put in the past year , the last being December. Well, he referred me to an oral surgeon who is going to take it out Monday the 6th. I will be so glad to get it out except for the fact the tooth looks great. I'm 54 and my teeth are in good shape but this is the second time I've had something like this happen. I'm like Trek. Brush, floss, everything, and still have to deal with this. It ain't fun. My pain was so bad one night I wouldn't have cared if someone had put me out of my misery.

 

[thread]

Interesting comments, thanks ...I didn't know that about CoQ10. I occassionally find it dirt cheap at our area Amish store, but take it only sporadically. I've also been making my own toothpaste by mixing baking soda and peroxide in a little jelly jar. Really whitens my teeth (probably eroding the enamel as well).

My problem with getting the gum surgery is that I don't think it will help - I've seen the x-rays of the tooth root and bone, and it doesn't look fixable. Then there's the expense.... ouch. I feel like I've put up with it so long, exhausted all the alternatives - but most importantly, I can't shake this sense of urgency lately that I'd better get this problem handled...a now or never feeling.

 

[Trek]

Just a quick update... I decided to bypass the dentist and visit an oral surgeon. After a panarex image of my jaw it's been decided that I have Osteomyelitis of the jawbone as a result of trauma (car accident a long time ago).

Gee... does anyone here think this chronic bone infection could possibly be what has been overtaxing my immune system for years? I am so angry! I can't tell you how often I bugged my MD about frequent ear & sinus infections. A simple xray showed the source!

So... on Wednesday I go for surgery. The necrocized (sp?) portion of the jawbone will be removed and the surrounding bone area scraped. If all goes well, I will not require a bone graft from my hip. I will be on major antibiotics for at least a month following surgery. I start the antibiotics tomorrow before surgery to give them a chance to get into my system.

How impossible would this be to deal with after TSHTF??? Apparently this type of infection does not go away easily, and if left untreated, can lead to hospitalization or death as it spreads.

All I can say is... Thank God for my "paranoia board" (as DH likes to call TB2K). If it were not for this board's constant reminder of how drastically things can change in an instant, I probably would not have been even thinking about my teeth. They bother me, but for years I have been hearing there is nothing to do about it beyond the oral hygene I practice already.

 

[eXe]

I have had the same problem, and no.. I wasnt going to spend 40,000 for a CT scan or MRI Qutting smoking did zero.. did not help at all..

What DID help? washing my mouth out with regular old peroxide.. yup the very same bottle you get at the drug store. Dont swallow it, just stick some in your mouth and swish it around.. let it sit there for as long as you can and then spit and rinse.

Another help, get a water pick, put it on the highest setting you can stand, and clean out those teeth and gums twice a day. In the AM and before bed along with regular brushing.

It has worked wonders in my case.. my gums used to be so bad that the slightest tap to them made them bleed.. no cavities no other symptoms just gum disease and its better now.

 

[Trek]

exe,

You did not read the full op or post #23, did you? In my case, there is no sign of gum infection. It's no wonder that the oral care I did had no benefit in my case beyond making sure my gums stayed healthy.

Where ever you are going for that CT scan or MRI for $40,000. needs to be dropped like a hot potato. The most expensive MRI I've ever had was just over $4000.00 (Including radiologist reading) and that was of the entire spine from the neck down.

 

[dreamseeer]

Trek

I am very glad you found out the source of your trouble and are getting it fixed. I hope you feel much better real soon.



I am late getting in on this thread but it really has my interest because I recently went to the dentist and I am really miffed at what all transpired.

First off........people without insurance must look like walking gold mines or money trees to most dentist. You can just see the dollar signs flashing in their eyes when they see how much work your mouth needs. I feel like the two dentist I have been to are looking at me as making their mortgage payment for them or maybe a nice down payment on the new car they want. It just makes me cringe.

Second.....never agree to the plan they set up for you while in the office. Tell them you need a couple of days to think about it all and digest all the information.......then go home and get online and google or clusty every new word you heard them use that you know you didn't know the meaning of or clearly understand.

Third.......take a good long look at your teeth in a mirro under very bright light and do your own self exam and make lots of observations.

Fourth.........Have a firm idea of what YOU think needs to be done based on what you are visualizing and what YOU want done.

Fifth.........learn to read those x-rays yourself .......ask a million questions......definitely at least look thoroughly at the x-rays.

Sixth.......Don't be talked into something that you feel in your gut won't work for you or will soon have you BACK in the dentist chair for continuing work in progress.

Think about it some more.

There is a lot to learn...... If you wait until it becomes an emergency then it is going to cost you even more than imagined.

Granted, I am not one to be talking since my teeth have been neglected most of my life mostly due to low income.....but every person that posts gives information for someone else not to get in the same sinking boat.

So....here is my story.

I told one dentist that I wanted a pretty smile....nice white teeth. He mentioned all the things he could do........to the tune of about 20 grand...,.......what with veneers and all, bleaching,,,,,gold caps,,,,,partials,,,,,,,,,fillings,,,,,,,and of course a nice long lecture about not pulling out my teeth.

The second dentist wanted to do what he wanted to do which was about the same thing but his price was less.........around 5 grand.

Here is the problem......my teeth are very brittle and they are translucent. I can see verticle lines in them going up into the gums. The gums have pulled away from numerous teeth. They said.....gingivitis....so a round of antibiotics and yes, that did make me feel much much better.

But here is the thing. I want all the top ones pulled out and a denture on top. I want a partial on the bottom but the teeth that would hold the clamp are where the gums have pulled away .

I did a lot of research on the net.......gawd, how dentists and doctors hate it when you do that.

My teeth I found out cannot be bleached out to look white because they are translucent.

The second dentist revised his plan though he didn't want to but the cost didn't come down at all.......still 5 grand........what with paying $150.00 per tooth pulling....it adds up, right?

Of course all of this work has to be pre-paid. ....none of this pay as you go thing.

I called them and told them I would pass on the offer.....such a generous offer, right?


I found a dentist online that serves patients in my general area.....
All they do is make dentures......kinda like a factory operation.....rollum in and rollum out.....assembly line patients.

I could get a complete set of dentures for about 2 grand there.....now that is more realistic.....teeth pulling, temporaries and permanent dentures plus follow ups.

Here is the kicker there. They don't take appointments. It is first come first serve.
The receptionist told me on the phone that they have people lining up at 5 a.m. in the morning......come there and get a hotel room the night before so they can be first in line. Some come with their sleeping bags and sleep in their cars. WOW!

At this rate and at this time I have to think long term and no more money.

I am going to opt to get them all pulled out and do the denture thing.

I didn't want to do it this way but money and the times dictate it.

I am so tired of being sick and tired from bad teeth.

I hope this information has been helpful to someone.

 

[Amanda Blue]

I just got back from the dentist. I had one tooth pulled and one cavity filled. I have 4 more cavities to go, then I'm all done. They wanted to do a scaling, but I told them i wanted to wait on that. I'm just thinking I don't want to get that done. Someone mentioned having it done and then having sensitive teeth for years. I don't want to risk that.

 

[thread]

Trek - I was in almost the same situation as you in that I had no outward signs of infection, but the x-rays showed the damage from the chronic infection. Using a waterpik with CS daily did nothing to help the infection - which was evidently 'up there' in the teeth roots and bone, rather than being visible to me.

I had the two teeth pulled by an oral surgeon this past Wednesday, and I'm so relieved to be rid of them. I also had sinus, ear and gland problems on that side for years ! They've added to my existing partial and I have no problems with it.

I wanted to mention that when I've had extractions (or other surgeries) before, I always took Arnica Montana for swelling/bruising/pain. It works like a charm. I had no swelling or pain. This time, I took a pain pill 'just in case', when the novacaine was wearing off, and the next morning there was no pain - not even tenderness - didn't even need an aspirin. I went to the dentist the next day to fit the new partial, and he questioned when I'd had the extractions, because I looked (and felt) so healed.

Good luck with your surgery.

 

[Trek]

It's good to hear all the different experiences people have had with their teeth and related health issues. What amazes me is that dental coverage is still separate from health coverage. That just makes no sense!

If they can differentiate between cosmetic and medically necessary for plastic surgery; why not do the same for dental?

Thread,

I have Arnica gel that gets alot of use around my home. Especially on shins! There is never a bruise. I wonder if it's penetrating enough to help if applied externally along my jaw after surgery? I'm not sure I can get the tabs in time for surgery, so I might just need to experiment with the gel. Thanks for reminding me about the Arnica though!

 

[Angel Lady]

dreamseeer, I would be very interested in knowing how it goes for you. Please post and keep us updated. I do hope and pray that all goes well for you. I am in desperate need of dental work and what your going to do is exactly what I have been thinking about having done.

 

[dreamseeer]

dreamseeer, I would be very interested in knowing how it goes for you. Please post and keep us updated. I do hope and pray that all goes well for you. I am in desperate need of dental work and what your going to do is exactly what I have been thinking about having done.

I will.

My bad teeth are inherited. I remember my mom had the same bad teeth and how sick she was. When she had all her teeth pulled the got well and felt much better.

Back in those days when things were so different than now........the dentist put her in the hospital to have all her teeth pulled out because she had had reumatic fever as a child. Can you imagine dentists doing that now? NOT

When you go to the dentist just remember that is their "business". It is like with lawyers or doctors..........that is how they make their living.

The financial crunch that effects us also effects them. I think most do not work out of the "patients best interest" anymore but look at every patient as a part of their business cash flow and nothing more.

They don't exactly lie to you but they don't tell you everything.....they cover that up with the old tired saying that the patient can't understand clinical knowledge.

The idea is still to keep you coming back.......no different than an auto mechanic or any other "business".

I hate the times we live in for this kind of reason.......everything is about the money.

I don't know how any of these people that run their lives like this can live with their conscience......but then maybe they have lost it or killed it because they only serve one god and that is money.

I got my teeth cleaned at the second dentist and they wanted to put a fluoride treatment on them. I had already told them I didn't want fluoride.......I almost got it any way without my permission. I had to get very stern and started to get up out of the dental chair. Only then did they back off.

If I am going to get my teeth pulled out and my teeth are all crack vertically....just about ready to crack and crumble what the heck good is getting a ......as they think.....a protective coating on them to preserve them?........ It is just another way for them to inflat the bill.

Just remember this: If someone tells you something that is 99% truth and 1% lies.......it is still a lie!!!!!! The 99% is negated by the 1%

x

 

[Terriannie]

My dentist must be the last of Mohicans because he is as honest as the day is born. When he could make an extra buck he won't if it isn't needed.

When I was enquiring about my teeth being whitened he honestly said he couldn't guarantee that the whitened teeth would match the cap I had put on so he suggested against it.

When my newly married daughter at the time in her new home went to a new state of the art dentist he told her she had a gum disease requiring a gum operation/cleaning to the tune of $2000.00! Got a second opinion from her "old" dentist we had been bringing her to for all her life and was told there was nothing wrong! She now travels all the way to her "old" dentist no matter what. BTW he is a father of 11 children and almost all of them are going to college on scholarships!!!

This is a great thread and I have learned so much from it. Because my gums are receeding a little bit I'm going to try the Coenzyme Q-10 John H recommended along with the baking soda/salt.

Sure hope everyone gets their teeth problems worked out. Tooth pain is HORRIBLE and I couldn't imagine how hard it will be on a person should TSHTF and there is no dentist available.

 

[thread]

Trek -
Try to get the Arnica tablets in time for your surgery. It'll be so worth it. Most health food stores have them. I start taking them (3-4 times a day) the day before surgery; and continue on for 3-5 days after.

 

[connie]

Years ago, I read advice from a dentist on preventing gum diseases:

Brush with a mixture of baking soda and hydrogen peroxide

Rinse mouth with a saltwater solution

All are cheap and easily obtainable and effective.

 

[Laurane]

Wonderwhy......

are you saying that if you don't mix salt with your baking soda, that you will build up plaque? Or that you had plaque and it went away when you took your b.s/salt mix??

Some people just naturally build up more plaque than others.....dentist didn't know why when I asked.....just wanted to clean them more.

Haven't had mine cleaned in 7 years - keep them "picked" with my dental tool and I massage my gums with my finger to keep the circulation going. It also used to ease pain I had in one tooth one time.