ECON Ohio Sheriff Refuses to Process “Heartless” Evictions

[Peasant]

http://www.housingwire.com/2008/12/11/ohio-sheriff-refuses-to-process-heartless-evictions/

Ohio Sheriff Refuses to Process “Heartless” Evictions
By PAUL JACKSON
December 11, 2008
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Saying that evicting former owners and tenants during winter weather and a recession is “heartless,” Butler County, Ohio sheriff Richard Jones has become the third sheriff this year to refuse to process some eviction orders. Jones on Tuesday ordered his deputies to ensure that people have shelter before they’re forced out of their homes, according to a report by WLWT television in Hamilton, Ohio; otherwise, he said his department will refuse to honor all eviction orders /snip.............more at link

 

[Green Co.]

Don't eviction orders come from a judge?

Wonder what would happen if that judge started charging those sheriffs with contempt.... not that I want to see anyone lose their home, just looking at the irony...

 

[Amaryllis]

Don't eviction orders come from a judge?

Wonder what would happen if that judge started charging those sheriffs with contempt.... not that I want to see anyone lose their home, just looking at the irony...

Yes. They do. I don't understand this either unless OH is way different than TX. How can the sheriff break the law basically by refusing to uphold the law?

 

[mbo]

Or, this could lead to further economic damage if the actions present more economic losses to the banks in the area, and they start to go under, bringing down the savings of the innocent citizens in the area. Or others decide this is a "good time" to go into default.

Somehow, people get the idea you can live in a house for free?

 

[Laurane]

Don't know if it is the same as in Canada......

but a Utility company cannot shut off water/electricity or gas in a home (rented or owned) during winter (in some places) because there is risk to life if they have nowhere to move to and no way to heat it.

For those living in more temperate climates, this might not seem a problem, but in an area where the temperatures go down to -20F with deep snow, and rentals are almost non-existant (people move to rentals when they don't have a house to live in and shortages happen), a stay of eviction would make sense.

But I don't know if the Sheriff has the power to do that on compassionate grounds, or if he is taking on himself something that he has no authority to do. Interesting situation - maybe the Judge could put a stay in place until spring, if requested by the Bank, or the County?

 

[Peasant]

I think it goes to show that Law Enforcement Officers are Americans too and if things get bad they may be on our side.... Ohio is in a world of hurt right now, so I guess I'm looking at this as a potential harbinger of things to come.

 

[dissimulo]

Well, as long as he's paying their rent, that's fine.

 

[Amaryllis]

I think it goes to show that Law Enforcement Officers are Americans too and if things get bad they may be on our side.... Ohio is in a world of hurt right now, so I guess I'm looking at this as a potential harbinger of things to come.

Well I see what you mean about them being on our side as opposed to banks that got bail outs and still didn't try to help home owners. However, I think evictions mean tenants who don't pay their rent to landlords. That's a lot different than not paying a welfare dependent bank. I don't think it should be "us" against our landlords. Landlords are usually hard working people like anyone else, unlike a bank. I may have read the article wrong or misunderstood though.

(I am a landlord so I'll admit my bias up front )

 

[dissimulo]

I think it goes to show that Law Enforcement Officers are Americans too and if things get bad they may be on our side....

Providing, of course, that your side does not include landlords who need their rent money.

 

[johnswahoo]

He stated that he would follow the eviction rule of the judge. However there is supposed to be done by the court and the judge to make sure that the people are just not thrown out into the streets and left for dead. The court/judge is supposed to make sure they have shelter to go to. If the Judge hasn't then he has told his deputies to bring the edict to him and he would take it back to the judge to make sure it was done. He said that he would not throw people out and left to die....
The story has been blown out of proportion. He just wants to make sure that the court/judge are doing what they are supposed to, considering that there have been more and more people not being able to pay.
Some have said great, if I Mr. Jones down the street doesn't have to pay I don't....but if Mr. Jones is served and found to have a relative to go to then he will be evicted.....
I just wanted to set this story straight....

 

[Ender]

Butler County, Ohio sheriff Richard Jones has become the third sheriff this year to refuse to process some eviction orders. Jones on Tuesday ordered his deputies to ensure that people have shelter before they’re forced out of their homes, according to a report by WLWT television in Hamilton, Ohio; otherwise, he said his department will refuse to honor all eviction orders

The article says "SOME eviction orders". I think the Sheriff is acting like a true Christian in ordering his deputies to ensure that people have shelter before evicting them.

This article is about foreclosures and renters. Not all people who are foreclosed on or rent are losers. Also, at least where I am living, renters have almost no rights and owners have all rights- whether wrong or right. I have seen many people in my community taken advantage of by a conniving owner.

So- I see hope in a Sheriff who will order his deputies to ensure people have shelter before throwing them into the street.

 

[Amaryllis]

He stated that he would follow the eviction rule of the judge. However there is supposed to be done by the court and the judge to make sure that the people are just not thrown out into the streets and left for dead. The court/judge is supposed to make sure they have shelter to go to. If the Judge hasn't then he has told his deputies to bring the edict to him and he would take it back to the judge to make sure it was done. He said that he would not throw people out and left to die....
The story has been blown out of proportion. He just wants to make sure that the court/judge are doing what they are supposed to, considering that there have been more and more people not being able to pay.
Some have said great, if I Mr. Jones down the street doesn't have to pay I don't....but if Mr. Jones is served and found to have a relative to go to then he will be evicted.....
I just wanted to set this story straight....

Apparently it's different from state to state. In TX, it's the tenant's responsibility to find another place to reside if the judge rules the tenant has to move. If the tenant has not paid rent, the judge WILL decide the tenant has to move whether it be July or December or any weather condition.

The only thing I can possibly think of for non-payment of rent, is that the tenant has withheld rent after having to make very necessary repairs. This is only after the tenant had made contact with the landlord about the necesary repairs, and the landlord refused to make the repairs himself. By necessary, I mean heat or a/c or a plumbing or sewer problem or electric. IOW, not cosmetic, but something really wrong with the house seriously effecting the comfort or safety of the tenant.

If the tenant is being brought up for eviciton for some reason other than non-payment, it's a little harder for the landlord to evict. It's basically up to the judge, but the judge will have much more sympathy for the tenant. If I evict for reasons other than non-payment of rent, I bring witnesses with me to court to help convince the judge I have a problem with the tenant. The judges have always sided with me, but I'd never evict someone for anything other than a serious reason.

 

[Barry Natchitoches]

Nowadays, alot of folks being forced out are NOT deadbeats who did not pay their mortgage/rent!


Haven't you heard about the newly emerging problem with folks who HAVE PAID EVERY DIME OF THEIR RENT, but are being evicted anyway because their landlords collected their rent payments but then pocketed the money instead of paying the mortgage on the place they were renting out?


These folks get foreclosed upon, but it is not the folks who failed to pay who end up homeless -- it is the innocents that they rented to.

 

[Amaryllis]

Nowadays, alot of folks being forced out are NOT deadbeats who did not pay their mortgage/rent!


Haven't you heard about the newly emerging problem with folks who HAVE PAID EVERY DIME OF THEIR RENT, but are being evicted anyway because their landlords collected their rent payments but did not pay their mortgages?

God, I hate to sound like a know it all here, but the tenant has the right (and should do so) to find out prior to lease signing who the owner is and if there are liens on the property and the deed information.

 

[dissimulo]

Haven't you heard about the newly emerging problem with folks who HAVE PAID EVERY DIME OF THEIR RENT, but are being evicted anyway because their landlords collected their rent payments but then pocketed the money instead of paying the mortgage on the place they were renting out?

That is a crime and the landlord should pay for it.

However, keep in mind that a tenant is likely to lose less than one month's rent due to this, while a landlord can go on losing month after month when a tenant stops paying.

Happily, it looks like this story was blown a bit out of proportion.

 

[mbabulldog]

God, I hate to sound like a know it all here, but the tenant has the right (and should do so) to find out prior to lease signing who the owner is and if there are liens on the property and the deed information.

That varies VERY much state to state.

 

[Peasant]

I'm not advocating freeloaders.

What if our currency / economic system collapses and just about no one can pay their Mortgage / Rent / Property Taxes? (at least for a period of time)

What if Americans become so angry over percieved taxation without representation that there are widespread tax revolts? Food riots?

These are rhetorical questions, but I have wondered how these things would play out.

If 1/2 of America is foreclosed / evicted, law enforcement may not be willing to put them all on the street as homes sit vacant. We have seen many tenents being evicted with little to no notice because building owners were foreclosed upon but didn't bother to tell the tennents & were still taking rent payments, not only landlords get screwed.

I'm not thinking in terms of 'normal times' I think TEOTWAKI is occuring in slow motion before our eyes......hope I'm wrong.

Many have assumed that Law Enforcement / Military would act like jack-booted-thugs, but they are Americans too...they just may march on Washington with other Americans.

 

[DrPrepper]

Man, am I glad we sold the remaining rental properties 3 years ago.

We have NONE now.

The people here claiming the renters are all poor victims, have NOT had to pay 4 properties mortgage payments, court costs, Legal fees, sheriffs eviction fees, only to be told the sheriff wont evict.


1125 Rent
170 Court Fees
120 (60 Per Person to have served
125 Sheriff Fee
1125 Another Rent Fee due to the time it takes to get into court

This is not a complete list at all.

One eviction could easily cost 2000.

 

[Barry Natchitoches]

That is a crime and the landlord should pay for it.

However, keep in mind that a tenant is likely to lose less than one month's rent due to this, while a landlord can go on losing month after month when a tenant stops paying.

Happily, it looks like this story was blown a bit out of proportion.

Actually, in such a situation the innocent renter can loose alot more than just one month's rent.

Most landlords in the Memphis area where I live demand anywhere from one to three months of advance paid rent as a deposit before they will rent to you.

Then there is the cost of the deposits to Memphis Light, Gas and Water (about $200 bux), deposits to the telephone company, and who knows what other deposits some of them have to pay.

Then there is the cost of having to move their things twice: once into the home, and then, out of the home (and in a hurry no less, which will usually add to the cost).


Not to mention the social, psychological and emotional trauma that an undeserved eviction has on the tenant and their families.


We have had way too many of these innocent renters being evicted in my area lately, and probably your area too...


And where as I don't have alot of sympathy for folks who wantonly fail to pay their bills, I really feel for the folks who paid their rent every month, on time, and are still being evicted -- because of their landlord's lack of payment.

 

[Barry Natchitoches]

Man, am I glad we sold the remaining rental properties 3 years ago.

We have NONE now.

The people here claiming the renters are all poor victims, have NOT had to pay 4 properties mortgage payments, court costs, Legal fees, sheriffs eviction fees, only to be told the sheriff wont evict.


1125 Rent
170 Court Fees
120 (60 Per Person to have served
125 Sheriff Fee
1125 Another Rent Fee due to the time it takes to get into court

This is not a complete list at all.

One eviction could easily cost 2000.

You were wise in getting out of the landlord business, IMHO, Dr. Prepper...


Dave Ramsey says that a person should not be in the rental property business unless they can pay cash for the home that they are renting out.


And here, you see the reason why.


Why put yourself in a position where you are dependent on somebody else's actions in order to meet your own obligations?


That is foolish, IMHO....


Tenants fail to pay rent on a regular basis.


Occasionally for good reasons, more often for reasons that they could have avoided.


Frankly, it doesn't matter the reason WHY they fail to pay... It is, IMHO, a foolish thing to put myself in a position where if a tenant does not pay, I will run risk of foreclosure.


Sure in such a situation the tenant is at fault, but so, IMHO, is the landlord who allowed himself/herself to end up in that position.


I agree 100% with Dave Ramsey when he says don't go borrowing in order to rent out property you cannot pay cash for...

 

[Ravekid]

Haven't you heard about the newly emerging problem with folks who HAVE PAID EVERY DIME OF THEIR RENT, but are being evicted anyway because their landlords collected their rent payments but then pocketed the money instead of paying the mortgage on the place they were renting out?

These folks get foreclosed upon, but it is not the folks who failed to pay who end up homeless -- it is the innocents that they rented to.

I don't feel bad for these folks. We have sunk so far from common sense, no one is prepare for _anything_. The renters are not foreclosed upon, the owner is. The only thing the renter is out is likely their security deposit, which in some case can be a lot of money. If person/family renting does not have enough saved so that they could move out _yesterday_, then they likely need to be a bit more frugal with their money. Sorry, but if this is such a huge problem, where folks just can't afford anything, this country is screwed. I guess the riots will start within the next few years, I was thinking ten years, but at the rate all the "me, myself, and I" socialists are acting, I am wondering if this country can last even two more years.

I'm not advocating freeloaders.

What if our currency / economic system collapses and just about no one can pay their Mortgage / Rent / Property Taxes? (at least for a period of time)

What if Americans become so angry over percieved taxation without representation that there are widespread tax revolts? Food riots?

If 1/2 of America is foreclosed / evicted, law enforcement may not be willing to put them all on the street as homes sit vacant.

The question you should be asking is when is one of these squatters/not evicted people going to end up getting into a fight with a owner who wants to move his family back into their first home? Say they decide to let their $300K urban renewal home go, because the city is just falling apart. He decides that it is time to move back into their other home that is supposed to be empty.

 

[Peasant]

The question you should be asking is when is one of these squatters/not evicted people going to end up getting into a fight with a owner who wants to move his family back into their first home? Say they decide to let their $300K urban renewal home go, because the city is just falling apart. He decides that it is time to move back into their other home that is supposed to be empty.

....yes, that's a good point. I think things are going to get messy & I don't think we have years to wait. Layoffs are only just beginning and I don't see how we will stop the cascading effect on our system. But I hope I'm wrong!

 

[Scotto]

I had a career in the apartment business in Florida, and evictions were the worst part of my job. Being the supervisor, I had to go with the sheriff while he 'executed writ of possession,' and had to change the locks. Most people would be gone, but every now and then you'd get somebody who didn't believe it was really going to happen and they'd still be living there. What a nightmare sometimes, the stuff I saw could fill a book.

Some people were deadbeats or druggies, and they deserved to be evicted. One couple we evicted each drove a brand-new Hummer, had top of the line furniture and this giant TV. They had bought a house and just decided to stop paying rent.

I remember this one poor woman whos husband left her and her little daughter, and she had all of her stuff sitting out side her apartment one Friday morning when the sheriff came. She seemed most concerned about her daughter's toys. She said she had nobody to help her move until Sunday, and it started to rain. She was crying, and it broke my heart. After the sheriff left, I told her to put all of her stuff back if she promised me she would be out by Sunday night, and not to tell ANYONE. She was crying again and thanking me over and over, and I helped her put her stuff back in. She was a pretty little 25 year old with a 3 year old daughter, stuck in this situation due to some dumbass husband.

Monday morning came, and as I was walking over to her apartment, she met me with the key in her hand, kissed me on the cheek and left. Everything was out, and her place was so clean you could have eaten off of anything. If I had been single - who knows?

Of course if my boss knew I would have been fired, but I had a heart and did this for people quite a few times. I didn't for the druggies or scumbags, but for people who needed somebody who cared a little bit for their situation.

Sometimes people would skip out and leave tons of good furniture, TV's and other stuff, and when some poor little family would move in without much of anything, I'd take them to this 'down unit' where I'd stored it from floor to ceiling and let them take whatever they needed for free. Their mouths would drop open when I'd give them about whatever they needed to furnish an entire apartment.

That, that was a rush. Help someone out until you move them to tears. It is FAR better to give then receive.

Sorry for the thread drift.

 

[Grim]

Nowadays, alot of folks being forced out are NOT deadbeats who did not pay their mortgage/rent!


Haven't you heard about the newly emerging problem with folks who HAVE PAID EVERY DIME OF THEIR RENT, but are being evicted anyway because their landlords collected their rent payments but then pocketed the money instead of paying the mortgage on the place they were renting out?


These folks get foreclosed upon, but it is not the folks who failed to pay who end up homeless -- it is the innocents that they rented to.

Twice I have personaly seen the above situation. In both situations the renters were aware of the situation and had stoped paying rent. They continued to live there rent free intill they were forcibly removed by the new owener, the bank. The banks are so far behind they try for months to get someone out before asking the court to remove someone. Even then it is happening to a very small percentage of people.

Ohio has always had strong consumer protection laws, and although that sounds good, it is one of the reasons businesses and industry do not flourish here. It takes 4 months to get a renter evicted, (court orders are served on the tenants) and surely at some point the renter should realize they need to find somewhere to go, and somewhere to place their belongings. Also forcible evections are served a notice by the sheriff dept 10 days in advance (I know this to be a fact in the county that was quoted). In big bold letters, English and Spanish BE OUT OR BE PUT OUT BY (date). If the resident isn’t getting the notice then it is the sheriff himself that isn’t doing his job. Yet he shows up at the house and no one has left. Giving the people another week wont help.

At what point does the sheriff decide what court order to follow and what court order to ignore. Who do you call if the sheriff decides to ignore a court order? What would happen if the sheriff decides to ignore a protection order, because he wants to give a nice guy a chance to patch things up with a lady that he beat up the week before? It is a dangerous slop when a law enforcement officer decides he has the sole authority to enforce or ignore a court order.

If he wants to help these misplaced people he can pass the hat around to the fellow officers and establish some type of emergency found. The truth is he wouldn’t spend a dime of his own money. The sheriff has lots of political pull and he could use this influence to make sure that the few people that fell through the above cracks and are helped out with emergence shelter. I don’t care if he lets them live in his garage for a week or two, but he needs to do his job.

 

[UncurledA]

Scotto, Ender, and Peasant - thank you all. I learned a lot from you. All ways are going to become narrow, and we'll need this kind of discernment to navigate them. Those who find a way to give mercy will receive it back when they need it. I pity those with only Rush Limbaugh and Oliver North to guide them.

 

[Ender]

Thank you, UncurledA and God Bless You.

 

[Phlatulance]

My wife that stays at home with our kids is doing small projects to increase the value of our rental place, and at the same time our landlord gives us a small discount on our rent. Works out for both. Saves us money, the landlord time, gives him a better property in the end, and the wife has something to do when the kids are napping or i'm awake to watch them.

 

[USDA]

I can't imagine the 'heartless' evections there must be some compassion &...some folks just need to go...but that should be an individual judgement by those involved...I hate 'rules' that everyone must follow independent of circumstances...that is the "Borg Judgement."

I still trust the judgement of those who make up my community.

 

[johnswahoo]

Phlatulance-----what do your other wives do? lol

 

[Ravekid]

Who do you call if the sheriff decides to ignore a court order?

Blackwater?

What would happen if the sheriff decides to ignore a protection order, because he wants to give a nice guy a chance to patch things up with a lady that he beat up the week before? It is a dangerous slop when a law enforcement officer decides he has the sole authority to enforce or ignore a court order.

In Indiana, any LEO could be hired off-duty to serve the eviction notice. In fact, I think even a civilian could serve the notice. I would record the transaction in some fashion though, so the renters/former owners couldn't argue they didn't know. Under Indiana law, the notice is considered enough that if you are still in the home at the time of the eviction, you can be arrested for trespass. I could see some good court arguments in cases where a home owner got foreclosed on, yet the renters were still paying rent. If that was the case, I would save the eviction notice until I could _personally_ hand deliver the document. Thus, the people would then know and could not argue they didn't get the notice taped to the front door. In some states, all you need is a process server, someone who can testify in court they served notice if it were to go that far.

 

[Warthog]

Ohio is in a world of hurt right now

I can vouch for that. Ohio is worse than a world of hurt right now. Went to AppleBees last night on a Friday, and the damn place looked like it was a Monday night.

 

[Mixin]

I think the original article was talking about evicting homeowners from properties in the process of foreclosure.

The bottom line is: What the court orders, the sheriff's department should process. It is not, in any way, the right of the sheriff to over-ride the judge's decision.

Here, the last eviction I had to do, I was granted immediate possession. I had served a 10 day pay-or-quit notice and the sheriff delivered the summons. The tenant knew exactly what was happening and when.

For some strange reason, our sheriff's department does just as the above sheriff does, and always gives tenants additional days. Eviction court is on Tuesday and it takes a couple of days to process the paperwork. So the sheriff's office may serve the final eviction on Friday or wait until Monday. At which time, they give an additional few days. This last one ended up with the tenants having possession 10 days after the judge gave me immediate possession.

Of course, the sheriff's office could give me no good answer as to how they felt they could over-ride the judge's order, only that they did.

I'm so sick and tired of dealing with deadbeat tenants...