ALERT NORTH KOREA SHELLS SOUTH ISLAND- SOUTH RETURNS FIRE
- Thread starter onetimer
- Start date
Those "exercises" sound like a very good way to set up for a drive across the DMZ.
At the same time, if the secret police are having to work that hard, at some point they may well run out of bullets...the initial opening of the 1917 Russian Revolution and what happened in Romania comes to mind.
Posted for fair use.......
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-...-korea-narrows-un-options-for-u-s-allies.html
China's Refual to Condemn North Korea at UN Narrows U.S., Allied Options
By Bill Varner - Dec 2, 2010
China’s refusal to condemn North Korea for its expanding nuclear program and its attack on a South Korean island limits the retaliatory options for the U.S., Japan and South Korea.
“Not much can be done,” said Sue Mi Terry, deputy national intelligence officer for East Asia at the National Intelligence Council from 2007 to 2009.
“China is the key, but when it comes down to any kind of action, they are not willing to play ball,” Terry said in an interview. “So I believe the situation is going to get worse.”
China has refused to back a bid by the U.S. and Japan in the United Nations Security Council to condemn North Korea’s latest provocations, Japan’s Ambassador Tsuneo Nishida said in an interview.
“The Chinese have always been resistant” to directly accusing North Korea of wrongdoing, Nishida said. “This is always the argument.”
With the Security Council deadlocked, the U.S. plans to host high-level talks next week with South Korea and Japan.
President Barack Obama’s top military adviser called on China to use its influence to persuade North Korea to end its “deeply destabilizing behavior.”
“China shares a relationship with the North that is not matched anywhere else in the world,” Admiral Michael Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said yesterday at the Center for American Progress in Washington.
‘Significant Leverage’
“Given the aid and support China has provided to North Korea over the years, there’s significant leverage they could apply to avoiding escalation and improving this troubling situation,” Mullen said.
Wu Bangguo, chairman of the Standing Committee of China’s National People’s Congress, and Choe Tae Bok, head of North Korea’s Supreme People’s Assembly, met in Beijing yesterday, China’s official Xinhua News Agency reported. Wu and Choe, who have met three times this year, pledged to “cement legislative ties” between the two countries, Xinhua said without mentioning the current tensions.
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton will meet in Washington on Dec. 6 with South Korean Foreign Minister Kim Sung Hwan and Japanese Foreign Minister Seiji Maehara. The meeting demonstrates their “commitment to security on the Korean peninsula and stability in the region,” the State Department said in a statement.
Enlisting China’s Backing
The U.S., Japan and South Korea likely will discuss how to enlist China’s backing and what further sanctions they can impose on North Korea, said Thomas Lee, professor of international law at Fordham University in New York and a former U.S. naval intelligence officer in South Korea.
“They might have to give China something,” Lee said, noting that the Nobel Peace Prize ceremony for Chinese dissident Liu Xiaobo, set for Dec. 10, offers an opportunity to ease pressure in the government in Beijing.
“They could put a freeze on some suspect bank accounts in Thailand and Malaysia,” Lee said, limiting North Korea’s access to hard currency. He said other options include a South Korea move to shut down the Kaesong economic complex jointly run by both Koreas, cancellation of humanitarian aid shipments to North Korea, and “live fire” air and sea maneuvers at the edge of the 12-mile limit of North Korea’s territorial waters.
U.S.-Japan Drills
More than 40,000 Japanese and American troops will begin week-long military exercises tomorrow. Fresh from maneuvers in the Yellow Sea with South Korea’s navy, the aircraft carrier USS George Washington will join a force of about 400 aircraft and 60 warships. Drills will include responding to ballistic missile attacks on unspecified Pacific islands, the Joint Staff of the Japan Self-Defense Forces said in a statement.
At the United Nations, where Ambassador Nishida of Japan said he didn’t “dare to say” that talks on a Security Council response were dead, British and Russian envoys said an accord wasn’t likely.
“It doesn’t look like it,” Russian Ambassador Vitaly Churkin said, noting “some problems” in private bilateral talks that followed North Korea’s announcement of a new plant to enrich uranium and the Nov. 23 artillery attack on the South Korean island.
No ‘Weak Response’
“We are not prepared to have a weak response by the council,” U.K. Ambassador Mark Lyall Grant said. “There are serious violations on the nuclear side, and the shelling should be condemned if we are to make any statement at all.
“It is disappointing because the Security Council ought to be in a position to respond to these sorts of incidents that are clearly a threat to international peace and security,” he said. “But the Security Council operates by unanimity when it comes to these kinds of statements, and there wasn’t any.”
Earlier this year, it took the Security Council almost four months to agree on a statement condemning the March 26 sinking of the South Korea warship Cheonan, and it didn’t explicitly condemn North Korea. The statement condemned the attack without accusing North Korea and took “note” of North Korea’s denial of complicity.
A multinational investigation reported in June that a North Korean-made torpedo caused the sinking in which 46 sailors died.
‘Stakes Are Going Up’
“They sank a ship, killed 46 sailors, they killed four Korean citizens the other day” and showed foreign experts a uranium enrichment facility, Mullen said. “The ante is going up, and I think the stakes are going up, and I think the stakes in terms of stability in the region are going up.”
Yang Tao, political director of China’s mission to the UN, said that his government was still considering proposed language of a Security Council statement on the latest incidents and that consultations haven’t ended.
China favors handling tensions on the Korean peninsula in the format of the six-party talks among China, Japan, South Korea, North Korea, Russia and the U.S. China has called for an emergency meeting of that group.
The U.S., Japan and South Korea haven’t agreed to China’s proposal, saying they want to see more concrete action by North Korea to dismantle its nuclear program before restarting the talks. Churkin said Russia was open to the six-party proposal, calling it a “positive” initiative by China.
“Beijing’s call for consultations will not substitute for action,” Mullen said yesterday. “I do not believe we should continue to reward North Korea’s provocative and deeply destabilizing behavior with bargaining or new incentives.”
Terry, who is now a national intelligence fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations in New York, said it was likely that the U.S. would return to the talks after a face-saving interval and make a new bid at the UN to tighten existing sanctions on North Korea.
To contact the reporter on this story: Bill Varner at the United Nations at wvarner@bloomberg.net
To contact the editor responsible for this story: Mark Silva in Washington at msilva34@bloomberg.net
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-...-korea-narrows-un-options-for-u-s-allies.html
China's Refual to Condemn North Korea at UN Narrows U.S., Allied Options
By Bill Varner - Dec 2, 2010
China’s refusal to condemn North Korea for its expanding nuclear program and its attack on a South Korean island limits the retaliatory options for the U.S., Japan and South Korea.
“Not much can be done,” said Sue Mi Terry, deputy national intelligence officer for East Asia at the National Intelligence Council from 2007 to 2009.
“China is the key, but when it comes down to any kind of action, they are not willing to play ball,” Terry said in an interview. “So I believe the situation is going to get worse.”
China has refused to back a bid by the U.S. and Japan in the United Nations Security Council to condemn North Korea’s latest provocations, Japan’s Ambassador Tsuneo Nishida said in an interview.
“The Chinese have always been resistant” to directly accusing North Korea of wrongdoing, Nishida said. “This is always the argument.”
With the Security Council deadlocked, the U.S. plans to host high-level talks next week with South Korea and Japan.
President Barack Obama’s top military adviser called on China to use its influence to persuade North Korea to end its “deeply destabilizing behavior.”
“China shares a relationship with the North that is not matched anywhere else in the world,” Admiral Michael Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said yesterday at the Center for American Progress in Washington.
‘Significant Leverage’
“Given the aid and support China has provided to North Korea over the years, there’s significant leverage they could apply to avoiding escalation and improving this troubling situation,” Mullen said.
Wu Bangguo, chairman of the Standing Committee of China’s National People’s Congress, and Choe Tae Bok, head of North Korea’s Supreme People’s Assembly, met in Beijing yesterday, China’s official Xinhua News Agency reported. Wu and Choe, who have met three times this year, pledged to “cement legislative ties” between the two countries, Xinhua said without mentioning the current tensions.
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton will meet in Washington on Dec. 6 with South Korean Foreign Minister Kim Sung Hwan and Japanese Foreign Minister Seiji Maehara. The meeting demonstrates their “commitment to security on the Korean peninsula and stability in the region,” the State Department said in a statement.
Enlisting China’s Backing
The U.S., Japan and South Korea likely will discuss how to enlist China’s backing and what further sanctions they can impose on North Korea, said Thomas Lee, professor of international law at Fordham University in New York and a former U.S. naval intelligence officer in South Korea.
“They might have to give China something,” Lee said, noting that the Nobel Peace Prize ceremony for Chinese dissident Liu Xiaobo, set for Dec. 10, offers an opportunity to ease pressure in the government in Beijing.
“They could put a freeze on some suspect bank accounts in Thailand and Malaysia,” Lee said, limiting North Korea’s access to hard currency. He said other options include a South Korea move to shut down the Kaesong economic complex jointly run by both Koreas, cancellation of humanitarian aid shipments to North Korea, and “live fire” air and sea maneuvers at the edge of the 12-mile limit of North Korea’s territorial waters.
U.S.-Japan Drills
More than 40,000 Japanese and American troops will begin week-long military exercises tomorrow. Fresh from maneuvers in the Yellow Sea with South Korea’s navy, the aircraft carrier USS George Washington will join a force of about 400 aircraft and 60 warships. Drills will include responding to ballistic missile attacks on unspecified Pacific islands, the Joint Staff of the Japan Self-Defense Forces said in a statement.
At the United Nations, where Ambassador Nishida of Japan said he didn’t “dare to say” that talks on a Security Council response were dead, British and Russian envoys said an accord wasn’t likely.
“It doesn’t look like it,” Russian Ambassador Vitaly Churkin said, noting “some problems” in private bilateral talks that followed North Korea’s announcement of a new plant to enrich uranium and the Nov. 23 artillery attack on the South Korean island.
No ‘Weak Response’
“We are not prepared to have a weak response by the council,” U.K. Ambassador Mark Lyall Grant said. “There are serious violations on the nuclear side, and the shelling should be condemned if we are to make any statement at all.
“It is disappointing because the Security Council ought to be in a position to respond to these sorts of incidents that are clearly a threat to international peace and security,” he said. “But the Security Council operates by unanimity when it comes to these kinds of statements, and there wasn’t any.”
Earlier this year, it took the Security Council almost four months to agree on a statement condemning the March 26 sinking of the South Korea warship Cheonan, and it didn’t explicitly condemn North Korea. The statement condemned the attack without accusing North Korea and took “note” of North Korea’s denial of complicity.
A multinational investigation reported in June that a North Korean-made torpedo caused the sinking in which 46 sailors died.
‘Stakes Are Going Up’
“They sank a ship, killed 46 sailors, they killed four Korean citizens the other day” and showed foreign experts a uranium enrichment facility, Mullen said. “The ante is going up, and I think the stakes are going up, and I think the stakes in terms of stability in the region are going up.”
Yang Tao, political director of China’s mission to the UN, said that his government was still considering proposed language of a Security Council statement on the latest incidents and that consultations haven’t ended.
China favors handling tensions on the Korean peninsula in the format of the six-party talks among China, Japan, South Korea, North Korea, Russia and the U.S. China has called for an emergency meeting of that group.
The U.S., Japan and South Korea haven’t agreed to China’s proposal, saying they want to see more concrete action by North Korea to dismantle its nuclear program before restarting the talks. Churkin said Russia was open to the six-party proposal, calling it a “positive” initiative by China.
“Beijing’s call for consultations will not substitute for action,” Mullen said yesterday. “I do not believe we should continue to reward North Korea’s provocative and deeply destabilizing behavior with bargaining or new incentives.”
Terry, who is now a national intelligence fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations in New York, said it was likely that the U.S. would return to the talks after a face-saving interval and make a new bid at the UN to tighten existing sanctions on North Korea.
To contact the reporter on this story: Bill Varner at the United Nations at wvarner@bloomberg.net
To contact the editor responsible for this story: Mark Silva in Washington at msilva34@bloomberg.net
I think this is a decent barometer of the general populations feelings over the NORK attack -
South Korea Experiencing Soaring Recruitment of R.O.K. Marines After N. Korean Shelling Attack
http://news.chosun.com/site/data/htm...2=top&Dep3=top
South Korea Experiencing Soaring Recruitment of R.O.K. Marines After N. Korean Shelling Attack
http://news.chosun.com/site/data/htm...2=top&Dep3=top
The Chinese just keep on demanding talks and we just keep telling them to pound sand. Doesn't look like China is going to do much to restrain the NORKs.
#China foreign min. spokesman says unfair to criticize Beijing for calling for dialog on #DPRK following artillery attack. #Koreas
about 4 hours ago via TweetDeck
PRC foreign min. spokesman says "those who brandish weapons (US, ROK) seem to be justified...is that fair?" #Koreas
about 4 hours ago via TweetDeck
PRC foreign ministry's Jiang: "To achieve results, we should start talks first." #Koreas
about 4 hours ago via TweetDeck
http://twitter.com/w7voa
#China foreign min. spokesman says unfair to criticize Beijing for calling for dialog on #DPRK following artillery attack. #Koreas
about 4 hours ago via TweetDeck
PRC foreign min. spokesman says "those who brandish weapons (US, ROK) seem to be justified...is that fair?" #Koreas
about 4 hours ago via TweetDeck
PRC foreign ministry's Jiang: "To achieve results, we should start talks first." #Koreas
about 4 hours ago via TweetDeck
http://twitter.com/w7voa
From a commenter over at the Korean blog "Marmots Hole" -
The Tokyo Shimbun published an article today claiming that North Korea is planning to attack Gyeonggi Province before the end of this month. The article quoted an unnamed Japanese official who claimed to have heard it during a contact with a official from the North Korean Reconnaissance Bureau right after the Yeongpyeong attack. I personally find the story to be a little far-fetched. If a North Korean official did in fact convey such sentiments, it was probably intended more for propaganda value than anything else. North Korea has never been known to telegraph its provocations in advance in that manner.
That said, Gyeonggi Governor Kim Mun-su apparently thinks there’s something up because he cancelled his schedule and made a sudden visit to the Third Army headquarters today.
http://www.kgbnews.kr/sub_read.html?uid=21224§ion=sc1§ion2=
This may have been a move to reassure a shaken public more than anything else, but it’s interesting nonetheless as it shows that South Korean officials are finally starting to take the threat from the north seriously—or more ominously, it might be because there really is reliable intelligence pointing to such an attack. This is a definitely a story to keep an eye on.
The Tokyo Shimbun published an article today claiming that North Korea is planning to attack Gyeonggi Province before the end of this month. The article quoted an unnamed Japanese official who claimed to have heard it during a contact with a official from the North Korean Reconnaissance Bureau right after the Yeongpyeong attack. I personally find the story to be a little far-fetched. If a North Korean official did in fact convey such sentiments, it was probably intended more for propaganda value than anything else. North Korea has never been known to telegraph its provocations in advance in that manner.
That said, Gyeonggi Governor Kim Mun-su apparently thinks there’s something up because he cancelled his schedule and made a sudden visit to the Third Army headquarters today.
http://www.kgbnews.kr/sub_read.html?uid=21224§ion=sc1§ion2=
This may have been a move to reassure a shaken public more than anything else, but it’s interesting nonetheless as it shows that South Korean officials are finally starting to take the threat from the north seriously—or more ominously, it might be because there really is reliable intelligence pointing to such an attack. This is a definitely a story to keep an eye on.
Agreed, without a doubt, but as long as the reporters stay out of CIC (which they wouldn't get into unsupervised anyway) and refrain from showing interviews with pilots (in case, God forbid they were to be captured) there's not really much they can show. These kind of news reports generally have an interview with the Captain, and some footage of aircraft launches and landings. The composition of the battlegroup is known to all, the composition of the air wing is known - a 30 second piece isn't going to tell the Norks anything CNN's USN handlers don't want them to know.
Spirit Of Truth
Deceased
Hard to get a good grip of what is going on at the moment. This has fallen off the MSM radar (not suprising as they have a very short attention span) so we are not getting alot of reporting about this. I do think things will pick up again next week a little when the ROK resumes live fire artillery drills near the "disputed" maritime areas.
almost ready
Inactive
It would be good
I remember the collapse of Romania well, it was largely televised on Swiss TV live, preempting other programming. Trying to follow that story did wonders for my fledgling German language skills. I remember when they broke into C's little basement storage unit and found a bag of oranges. They went ballistic. The explosion of anger was like a waterfall, pouring over all who observed. Just stunning. Such events are very rare in life, and to see them even rarer. I was lucky enough to see two as they happened, the fall of the Berlin Wall and the fall of Ceausescu.
If the north folded like Romania, it would be very, very difficult and expensive for the south -- much more difficult than West Germany absorbing the east. But it's the best we can hope for now. To live to see another great collapse of tyranny would be a wonderful thing, a wish I hold for us all.
I remember the collapse of Romania well, it was largely televised on Swiss TV live, preempting other programming. Trying to follow that story did wonders for my fledgling German language skills. I remember when they broke into C's little basement storage unit and found a bag of oranges. They went ballistic. The explosion of anger was like a waterfall, pouring over all who observed. Just stunning. Such events are very rare in life, and to see them even rarer. I was lucky enough to see two as they happened, the fall of the Berlin Wall and the fall of Ceausescu.
If the north folded like Romania, it would be very, very difficult and expensive for the south -- much more difficult than West Germany absorbing the east. But it's the best we can hope for now. To live to see another great collapse of tyranny would be a wonderful thing, a wish I hold for us all.
Things seem to have quieted down but I believe that there is a whole lot of moving going on in the background.
South Korea had a good chance of landing the World Cup events that was being announced yesterday. So I'm sure that they wanted to project an air of security and stability. Most of the news put out yesterday by Yonhap, their official news agency, was focused on economic and cultural themes. But they didn't get it and so I suspect that there will be a bit more open discussion about some of the military stuff going on.
I think that another reason that things seem to have gone quiet is OPSEC. The naval/coastal exercises scheduled for Dec. 6 -12 are going to be pretty big - they announced 29 different coastal areas that will be involved. To do that, the ROK military must be moving quite a few assets, while still maintaining a very heightened alert status. That leaves them a bit vulnerable while those units and equipment are in transit. So it's to South Korea's benefit to stay a little quiet over the next couple of days.
If North Korea lets them. I'm quite sure that the DPRK is very aware of this potential vulnerability and they may see it as a window of opportunity. We'll just have to see how this plays out over the next few days.
Hopefully, all will stay quiet until the exercises begin on Dec. 6 - that's when the fireworks might really start.
South Korea had a good chance of landing the World Cup events that was being announced yesterday. So I'm sure that they wanted to project an air of security and stability. Most of the news put out yesterday by Yonhap, their official news agency, was focused on economic and cultural themes. But they didn't get it and so I suspect that there will be a bit more open discussion about some of the military stuff going on.
I think that another reason that things seem to have gone quiet is OPSEC. The naval/coastal exercises scheduled for Dec. 6 -12 are going to be pretty big - they announced 29 different coastal areas that will be involved. To do that, the ROK military must be moving quite a few assets, while still maintaining a very heightened alert status. That leaves them a bit vulnerable while those units and equipment are in transit. So it's to South Korea's benefit to stay a little quiet over the next couple of days.
If North Korea lets them. I'm quite sure that the DPRK is very aware of this potential vulnerability and they may see it as a window of opportunity. We'll just have to see how this plays out over the next few days.
Hopefully, all will stay quiet until the exercises begin on Dec. 6 - that's when the fireworks might really start.
South Korea Readies for Artillery Drills on Disputed Sea Border
Dec 2, 2010 10:00 AM ET
South Korea’s military said it is preparing to carry out the first live-fire artillery drills along its disputed western sea border since the deadly shelling of Yeonpyeong island by its communist neighbor.
As more than 40,000 Japanese and U.S. troops begin joint exercises today, South Korea warned shipping to avoid 29 areas around its coast starting Dec. 6. One zone lies about 7 miles (11 kilometers) off Daechong island, in waters claimed by the North that are about 100 miles (160 kilometers) from the South Korean mainland.
North Korea attacked the fishing community and military outpost of Yeonpyeong on Nov. 23, killing four people and destroying houses in the first shelling of South Korea soil since the 1950-1953 civil war between the two sides. North Korea said it was responding to a military provocation after the South fired into waters it claims as its own.
South Korea hasn’t decided when it will next hold artillery exercises on Yeonpyeong, said a spokesman for the Joint Chiefs of Staff who declined to be identified, citing military policy. The National Intelligence Service believes North Korea may launch another attack on the South, Grand National Party lawmaker Rhee Beum Kwan said, citing testimony to parliament this week by the spy-agency’s director, Won Sei-Hoon.
(snip)
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-...-artillery-drills-on-disputed-sea-border.html
Dec 2, 2010 10:00 AM ET
South Korea’s military said it is preparing to carry out the first live-fire artillery drills along its disputed western sea border since the deadly shelling of Yeonpyeong island by its communist neighbor.
As more than 40,000 Japanese and U.S. troops begin joint exercises today, South Korea warned shipping to avoid 29 areas around its coast starting Dec. 6. One zone lies about 7 miles (11 kilometers) off Daechong island, in waters claimed by the North that are about 100 miles (160 kilometers) from the South Korean mainland.
North Korea attacked the fishing community and military outpost of Yeonpyeong on Nov. 23, killing four people and destroying houses in the first shelling of South Korea soil since the 1950-1953 civil war between the two sides. North Korea said it was responding to a military provocation after the South fired into waters it claims as its own.
South Korea hasn’t decided when it will next hold artillery exercises on Yeonpyeong, said a spokesman for the Joint Chiefs of Staff who declined to be identified, citing military policy. The National Intelligence Service believes North Korea may launch another attack on the South, Grand National Party lawmaker Rhee Beum Kwan said, citing testimony to parliament this week by the spy-agency’s director, Won Sei-Hoon.
(snip)
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-...-artillery-drills-on-disputed-sea-border.html
I'm checking for further on this.
From: " http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/news/2010/12/02/0200000000AEN20101202009300315.HTML "
2010/12/03 07:00 KST
"N. Korea deploys more multiple-launch rockets: source
SEOUL, Dec. 3 (Yonhap) -- North Korea has added more multiple-launch rockets capable of hitting the South Korean capital, a military source said Friday, amid heightened tensions over the North's fatal artillery attack on a South Korean island.
The North's rockets and long-range artillery, capable of raining down shells on Seoul, which lies about 50 kilometers from the heavily armed border, are the biggest defense concern for South Korea. "
From: " http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/news/2010/12/02/0200000000AEN20101202009300315.HTML "
2010/12/03 07:00 KST
"N. Korea deploys more multiple-launch rockets: source
SEOUL, Dec. 3 (Yonhap) -- North Korea has added more multiple-launch rockets capable of hitting the South Korean capital, a military source said Friday, amid heightened tensions over the North's fatal artillery attack on a South Korean island.
The North's rockets and long-range artillery, capable of raining down shells on Seoul, which lies about 50 kilometers from the heavily armed border, are the biggest defense concern for South Korea. "
Oh well, that's just wonderful. Now the DPKR is beefing up it's already vast artillery along the DMZ opposite Seoul.
It doesn't look like this is going to die back down, does it?
Summerthyme
Summerthyme
Nobody knows for sure. We might get lucky and it will fade away. But I think that we are just in a lull. There are pieces and assets being moved around on both sides.
It'll heat back up a bit on Dec. 6, when South Korea starts their announced exercises. Until then, all we can do is continue watching and waiting for one side, or the other, or both, to do something stupid.
I agree we can't know for sure. I sure don't!!
But... they just keep pushing it closer and closer to the brink. All it will take is a small mistake, or simply one final shove... and we're in a REAL mess.
Summerthyme
But... they just keep pushing it closer and closer to the brink. All it will take is a small mistake, or simply one final shove... and we're in a REAL mess.
Summerthyme
Yeah, and remember the problem of the Oriental "face"...
Who will stand down? ROK's president has already apologized to his people for the deaths, etc that he "allowed". I don't think he CAN allow another attack of any kind without strong retaliation, if he doesn't want to commit hari-kari, either actual or political (I know, wrong culture, but there are similarities)
I keep praying someone has more sense than pride and backs down...
Summerthyme
Who will stand down? ROK's president has already apologized to his people for the deaths, etc that he "allowed". I don't think he CAN allow another attack of any kind without strong retaliation, if he doesn't want to commit hari-kari, either actual or political (I know, wrong culture, but there are similarities)
I keep praying someone has more sense than pride and backs down...
Summerthyme
Expanded version of the article from Yonhap. I'm still looking for further from other sources. This is the first specific mention that I've seen of the SA-5.
From: " http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/national/2010/12/02/9/0301000000AEN20101202009300315F.HTML"
2010/12/03 07:00 KST
"N. Korea deploys more multiple-launch rockets: source
SEOUL, Dec. 3 (Yonhap) -- North Korea has added more multiple-launch rockets capable of hitting the South Korean capital, a military source said Friday, amid heightened tensions over the North's fatal artillery attack on a South Korean island.
The North's rockets and long-range artillery, capable of raining down shells on Seoul, which lies about 50 kilometers from the heavily armed border, are the biggest defense concern for South Korea.
"North Korea has recently increased the number of its multiple-launch rockets by 100 pieces to some 5,200," the source said on the condition of anonymity. "They can mount a concentrated attack from their bases on Seoul and its neighboring areas."
With an effective shooting range of 60km, parts of the multiple-launch rocket system can fire 12 to 22 five-meter-long rockets, according to the source.
The source didn't say whether the new multiple-launch rockets were deployed near the border with South Korea. Seoul and its neighboring areas are home to nearly half of the South's 50-million population.
North Korea is also believed to have deployed surface-to-air SA-2 missiles and SA-5 missiles near the border.
Military tensions on the Korean Peninsula have spiked since North Korea bombarded the South's Yeonpyeong Island on Nov. 23 near the tense Yellow Sea border. Two civilians and two marines were killed by the North's surprise artillery attack, marking the first attack on a civilian area since the 1950-53 Korean War."
From: " http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/national/2010/12/02/9/0301000000AEN20101202009300315F.HTML"
2010/12/03 07:00 KST
"N. Korea deploys more multiple-launch rockets: source
SEOUL, Dec. 3 (Yonhap) -- North Korea has added more multiple-launch rockets capable of hitting the South Korean capital, a military source said Friday, amid heightened tensions over the North's fatal artillery attack on a South Korean island.
The North's rockets and long-range artillery, capable of raining down shells on Seoul, which lies about 50 kilometers from the heavily armed border, are the biggest defense concern for South Korea.
"North Korea has recently increased the number of its multiple-launch rockets by 100 pieces to some 5,200," the source said on the condition of anonymity. "They can mount a concentrated attack from their bases on Seoul and its neighboring areas."
With an effective shooting range of 60km, parts of the multiple-launch rocket system can fire 12 to 22 five-meter-long rockets, according to the source.
The source didn't say whether the new multiple-launch rockets were deployed near the border with South Korea. Seoul and its neighboring areas are home to nearly half of the South's 50-million population.
North Korea is also believed to have deployed surface-to-air SA-2 missiles and SA-5 missiles near the border.
Military tensions on the Korean Peninsula have spiked since North Korea bombarded the South's Yeonpyeong Island on Nov. 23 near the tense Yellow Sea border. Two civilians and two marines were killed by the North's surprise artillery attack, marking the first attack on a civilian area since the 1950-53 Korean War."
I do too but I just don't think it's going to happen. Not this time.
You have no idea how much I hope you're wrong...
Summerthyme
Summerthyme
China Connection
TB Fanatic
It won't happen until the ground freezes. So there is a month or two before WWIII starts up. Nothing will be the same ever again. This will usher in the seven years of tribulation. I just hope I can stay put and keep working.
The South Koreans are always demonstrating against the US. They are strange bed fellows.
.
The South Koreans are always demonstrating against the US. They are strange bed fellows.
.
Last edited:
I know how much I hope and pray that I'm wrong.
It just seems that as each day goes by, both sides seem more and more determined to keep pushing.
I've watched the Korea situation for years and years and this is the closest I've ever seen it get. I just keep hoping that one side or the other will take a step back.
China Connection
TB Fanatic
All is going to plan. I have watched it for thirty years.
The Armageddon Script, p. 223, written in 1981. ...
"THE SCRIPT HAS NOW BEEN WRITTEN"
http://www.cuttingedge.org/news/n1781.cfm
"A hair-raising confrontation in Korea may, towards the end of the period, threaten man's very survival."
[Peter Lemesurier, "The Armageddon Script", p. 223]
Now, let us return to our subject of North and South Korea. On page 222-3, of his book, Lemesurier makes a very cryptic statement about Korea. "But then war will seldom be absent from the world-scene during the last twenty years of the century. There will be numerous local conflicts in the Far East, the Middle East, and Africa. A hair-raising nuclear confrontation in Korea may, towards the end of the period, threaten man's very survival."
In other words, the New World Order Plan envisions a staged nuclear confrontation in Korea. This statement places at least the North Korean Government inside the New World Order Plan, and probably South Korea, as well. During the first two years of the Clinton Administration, we were all told repeatedly that Korea was "suspected" of having nuclear weapons. President Clinton and former President Carter brokered a deal, whereby North Korea "promised" to eliminate their nuclear weapons and the potential to make them, some time after the year 2000 A.D. This "deal" was, of course, no deal, as it left North Korea in solid control of these weapons during this time period.
Thus, the outlines of this scenario are all to plain to see:
1) North and South Korea and the United States, begin a short period of a 'war of words'. War rhetoric will suddenly ratchet up, planting the idea firmly in people's minds that North Korea really can present a mortal threat to the U.S.
2) Both sides begin to move massive numbers of men and material up to the front
3) Led by the U.S. President, the Western world swings in solidly behind South Korea, and the U.S. begins to move additional military units to South Korea.
4) After proper posturing, North Korea attacks. After penetrating some short distance, and causing massive damage and casualties, North Korean troops begin to be destroyed as American troops, equipped with the same lopsided margin of capability as we had against Saddam Hussein, rapidly kill North Koreans by the tens of thousands. [NOTE: North Korea possibly may open up with Weapons of Mass Destruction; the script is not clear on this point]
5) In desperation, North Korea then launches a limited number of nuclear weapons or threatens to do so. At this point, North Korea might just attack one or more Japanese cities with nuclear weapons.
6) America rapidly comes to the aid of South Korea, rushing in nuclear capability
7) China, likewise, backs North Korea
8) Now, the confrontation is between China and America, both threatening each other with nuclear annihilation. The world panics ----------------------------
At the same time, in the Middle East, Israel is annihilating her Arab protagonists, and America is fully engulfed in war with Iraq and other Arab states, setting the stage for the planned appearance of Antichrist. The world panics -------------
At the same time, Arab terrorists strike American and European cities with wide-spread terrorism, and threatening to use nuclear devices. The world panics ----------------
At the same time, riots erupt in American cities. America panics ----------------------
Maybe the Stock Market goes into a free fall, reacting badly to the out-of-control events. The world panics ----------------------
Possibly, we learn that unidentified craft from outer space are approaching the Earth. Possibly, UFO's and Aliens are seen all over the world. The world panics ------------------- [Read NEWS1052 to see role that Aliens and UFO's play in the script to produce Antichrist]
9) China suddenly invades Taiwan, now that U.S. forces are stretched to the breaking point between the conflict in the Middle East and the Korean Peninsula. Since America does not have adequate Naval carrier groups to adequately defend Taiwan now that we are fully committed between the Middle East and Korea, China is fully willing to "seize the moment" to attack Taiwan.
Now, this planned war is truly a "World War". The world is going through the final birth pangs to produce Antichrist. [Matthew 24:8 is being fully fulfilled]
Suddenly, amidst all this panic, we learn of a "Man of Peace" who has arisen East of Jerusalem, claiming to be the Jewish Messiah, Jesus Christ, Mohammed, Buddha, and other world avatars, all in one person. And, to back up his claim, he is dazzling the peoples of the world with displays of supernatural power.
This scenario may be almost ready to spring on an already well-conditioned public. If it is, the beginning of the Tribulation Period may be close at hand.
The Armageddon Script, p. 223, written in 1981. ...
"THE SCRIPT HAS NOW BEEN WRITTEN"
http://www.cuttingedge.org/news/n1781.cfm
"A hair-raising confrontation in Korea may, towards the end of the period, threaten man's very survival."
[Peter Lemesurier, "The Armageddon Script", p. 223]
Now, let us return to our subject of North and South Korea. On page 222-3, of his book, Lemesurier makes a very cryptic statement about Korea. "But then war will seldom be absent from the world-scene during the last twenty years of the century. There will be numerous local conflicts in the Far East, the Middle East, and Africa. A hair-raising nuclear confrontation in Korea may, towards the end of the period, threaten man's very survival."
In other words, the New World Order Plan envisions a staged nuclear confrontation in Korea. This statement places at least the North Korean Government inside the New World Order Plan, and probably South Korea, as well. During the first two years of the Clinton Administration, we were all told repeatedly that Korea was "suspected" of having nuclear weapons. President Clinton and former President Carter brokered a deal, whereby North Korea "promised" to eliminate their nuclear weapons and the potential to make them, some time after the year 2000 A.D. This "deal" was, of course, no deal, as it left North Korea in solid control of these weapons during this time period.
Thus, the outlines of this scenario are all to plain to see:
1) North and South Korea and the United States, begin a short period of a 'war of words'. War rhetoric will suddenly ratchet up, planting the idea firmly in people's minds that North Korea really can present a mortal threat to the U.S.
2) Both sides begin to move massive numbers of men and material up to the front
3) Led by the U.S. President, the Western world swings in solidly behind South Korea, and the U.S. begins to move additional military units to South Korea.
4) After proper posturing, North Korea attacks. After penetrating some short distance, and causing massive damage and casualties, North Korean troops begin to be destroyed as American troops, equipped with the same lopsided margin of capability as we had against Saddam Hussein, rapidly kill North Koreans by the tens of thousands. [NOTE: North Korea possibly may open up with Weapons of Mass Destruction; the script is not clear on this point]
5) In desperation, North Korea then launches a limited number of nuclear weapons or threatens to do so. At this point, North Korea might just attack one or more Japanese cities with nuclear weapons.
6) America rapidly comes to the aid of South Korea, rushing in nuclear capability
7) China, likewise, backs North Korea
8) Now, the confrontation is between China and America, both threatening each other with nuclear annihilation. The world panics ----------------------------
At the same time, in the Middle East, Israel is annihilating her Arab protagonists, and America is fully engulfed in war with Iraq and other Arab states, setting the stage for the planned appearance of Antichrist. The world panics -------------
At the same time, Arab terrorists strike American and European cities with wide-spread terrorism, and threatening to use nuclear devices. The world panics ----------------
At the same time, riots erupt in American cities. America panics ----------------------
Maybe the Stock Market goes into a free fall, reacting badly to the out-of-control events. The world panics ----------------------
Possibly, we learn that unidentified craft from outer space are approaching the Earth. Possibly, UFO's and Aliens are seen all over the world. The world panics ------------------- [Read NEWS1052 to see role that Aliens and UFO's play in the script to produce Antichrist]
9) China suddenly invades Taiwan, now that U.S. forces are stretched to the breaking point between the conflict in the Middle East and the Korean Peninsula. Since America does not have adequate Naval carrier groups to adequately defend Taiwan now that we are fully committed between the Middle East and Korea, China is fully willing to "seize the moment" to attack Taiwan.
Now, this planned war is truly a "World War". The world is going through the final birth pangs to produce Antichrist. [Matthew 24:8 is being fully fulfilled]
Suddenly, amidst all this panic, we learn of a "Man of Peace" who has arisen East of Jerusalem, claiming to be the Jewish Messiah, Jesus Christ, Mohammed, Buddha, and other world avatars, all in one person. And, to back up his claim, he is dazzling the peoples of the world with displays of supernatural power.
This scenario may be almost ready to spring on an already well-conditioned public. If it is, the beginning of the Tribulation Period may be close at hand.
A clip from a Bloomberg article that quotes Yonhap as its' source. It is mostly a repeat except for:
<clip> "...North Korea has more than 5,200 240-millimeter multiple rocket launchers, 100 more than previously estimated, Yonhap reported. The 240-mm rocket launchers have a range of 60 kilometers and can fire as many as 22 rockets in 35 minutes, according to the report.
North Korea has also increased the number of tanks by 200 and the country’s air force has bolstered its capability to intercept planes, Yonhap said..."</clip>
The way the article is written, it doesn't mean that North Korea just acquired this stuff yesterday. It sounds more like a new South Korean report that describes the status of the DPRK military in general.
<clip> "...North Korea has more than 5,200 240-millimeter multiple rocket launchers, 100 more than previously estimated, Yonhap reported. The 240-mm rocket launchers have a range of 60 kilometers and can fire as many as 22 rockets in 35 minutes, according to the report.
North Korea has also increased the number of tanks by 200 and the country’s air force has bolstered its capability to intercept planes, Yonhap said..."</clip>
The way the article is written, it doesn't mean that North Korea just acquired this stuff yesterday. It sounds more like a new South Korean report that describes the status of the DPRK military in general.
Spirit Of Truth
Deceased
Sometimes I'm slow in getting His meaning, but it seems clear to me now that God, the Author of HIStory, is gearing everything up for the final war between Capitalism and Communism in order to synthesize the world into His Kingdom rooted in the ethos of love thy neighbor as thyself. Putin will try to steal the show, but alas I think I know who's on the winning team, even if there's only one member at this point. 
The best thing that could have happened was SK returning fire on the unprovoked NK attack on SK civilians.
The NK bully got it's nose bloodied and I don't think NK's leadership really had planned for that to happen at all. Not for one minute.
The Communists have a horribly complicated command and control system and I'll bet they are still confounded that SK fired back.
I can just see all the NK commie apparatchuks running around in little tight circles while waiting for Little Kim to stop watching porno movies and give them new orders.
The NK bully got it's nose bloodied and I don't think NK's leadership really had planned for that to happen at all. Not for one minute.
The Communists have a horribly complicated command and control system and I'll bet they are still confounded that SK fired back.
I can just see all the NK commie apparatchuks running around in little tight circles while waiting for Little Kim to stop watching porno movies and give them new orders.
Jeffrey Thomason
Veteran Member
This is interesting...
http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2010/12/03/2010120300365.html
An underwater nuclear facility?
http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2010/12/03/2010120300365.html
An underwater nuclear facility?
I don't think either article is clear when these additional DPRK forces were moved up towards the border. But what is clear is that the ROK released this news today . . . right when things are already tense
#ROK defense minister nominee now being grilled by lawmakers. #Koreas 4 minutes ago via TweetDeck
Won Sei-hoon told lawmakers he had advance knowledge of #DPRK plan to attack border islands. Joint Chiefs of Staff calls the remark untrue. about 1 hour ago via TweetDeck
Next casualty of the Nov. 23 #DPRK shelling may be the #ROK natl. intelligence chief... about 1 hour ago via TweetDeck
RT @VOA_Seoul: More DPRK nuke sites suspected: http://is.gd/i7bv7 #Koreas #nuclear about 2 hours ago via TweetDeck
Yonhap quotes source saying #DPRK recently increased number of multiple-launch rockets by 100 pieces to some 5,200 which can hit Seoul. about 2 hours ago via TweetDeck
Japan Defense Ministry confirms KEEN SWORD underway -- largest ever joint drill with U.S. forces. about 2 hours ago via TweetDeck
http://twitter.com/w7voa
Won Sei-hoon told lawmakers he had advance knowledge of #DPRK plan to attack border islands. Joint Chiefs of Staff calls the remark untrue. about 1 hour ago via TweetDeck
Next casualty of the Nov. 23 #DPRK shelling may be the #ROK natl. intelligence chief... about 1 hour ago via TweetDeck
RT @VOA_Seoul: More DPRK nuke sites suspected: http://is.gd/i7bv7 #Koreas #nuclear about 2 hours ago via TweetDeck
Yonhap quotes source saying #DPRK recently increased number of multiple-launch rockets by 100 pieces to some 5,200 which can hit Seoul. about 2 hours ago via TweetDeck
Japan Defense Ministry confirms KEEN SWORD underway -- largest ever joint drill with U.S. forces. about 2 hours ago via TweetDeck
http://twitter.com/w7voa
Jeffrey Thomason
Veteran Member
can anyone say "disproportionate response"
I hope we don't have to put his words to the test in the near future
LoupGarou
Ancient Fuzzball
20 centrifuges in a submarine, maybe?
It would be kind of hard for IAEA inspectors to try to check up on.
Loup
maric
Short but deadly
Dear Lord have mercy. This sounds like there will be a mushroom cloud on the horizon real soon.
Japan seems to be getting more involved than they ever have before. The things that they're doing are subtle but significant.
From: http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20101203a5.html
"Friday, Dec. 3, 2010
South observers get rare invite to Japan-U.S. drills
Kyodo News
South Korea may send observers to a Japanese-U.S. military exercise Friday that would effectively turn it into a rare trilateral event displaying the solidarity of the three Pacific allies, diplomatic sources said Thursday.
Arrangements for the move, which would make the joint exercise by the Self-Defense Forces and the United States the first to be attended by South Korea, are being finalized.
The exercise, which runs through Dec. 10, comes on the heels of a tense U.S.-South Korean military drill in the Yellow Sea that was held after North Korea fatally shelled a small South Korean island.
The South Korean Defense Ministry plans to dispatch several observers to the joint exercises.
They are considering making aerial observations of drills that will be held in the Sea of Japan — including one off the Noto Peninsula — but will probably stay away from any drills planned in the Pacific off the main island of Okinawa and other isles in the Nansei chain, the sources said.
The Nansei Island drills are probably being avoided to avoid alarming the Chinese.
By having South Korea take part in the exercises, Tokyo hopes to demonstrate its support for its neighbor and win Seoul's help in resolving the abduction row with North Korea, political observers said.
Japanese observers took part in joint military exercises held by the United States and South Korea in July.
The 10th joint exercises, which began in fiscal 1986, will involve about 44,000 service members from Japan and the United States and about 60 vessels and 400 aircraft.
The vessels include the aircraft carrier USS George Washington, which just completed the joint exercise with South Korea in the Yellow Sea, and Aegis-equipped destroyers from the Maritime Self-Defense Force.
The maneuvers will be carried out to practice for guarding against ballistic missile attacks and for defending remote Japanese islands.
Lee visit unlikely
South Korean President Lee Myung Bak will probably not visit Japan this month for talks with Prime Minister Naoto Kan due to Pyongyang's deadly shelling of a South Korean island, Chief Cabinet Secretary Yoshito Sengoku indicated Thursday.
"It would have been better to welcome South Korean President Lee this year," said at a news conference.
But he also said the two countries are still working on arranging a meeting between Kan and Lee.
On Monday, Kan told a meeting of lawmakers from the two countries that Lee would most likely visit in mid-December and asked for cross-party cooperation to help Tokyo deepen its ties with Seoul amid the rising tensions on the Korean Peninsula.
At the time, Kan also called for bipartisan collaboration so the government could return historic Korean artifacts when Lee visits Japan.
The Diet still has to approve a bilateral pact on Tokyo's transfer of the artifacts, and Kan was hoping it would be passed in the current legislative session, which ends Friday."
From: http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20101203a5.html
"Friday, Dec. 3, 2010
South observers get rare invite to Japan-U.S. drills
Kyodo News
South Korea may send observers to a Japanese-U.S. military exercise Friday that would effectively turn it into a rare trilateral event displaying the solidarity of the three Pacific allies, diplomatic sources said Thursday.
Arrangements for the move, which would make the joint exercise by the Self-Defense Forces and the United States the first to be attended by South Korea, are being finalized.
The exercise, which runs through Dec. 10, comes on the heels of a tense U.S.-South Korean military drill in the Yellow Sea that was held after North Korea fatally shelled a small South Korean island.
The South Korean Defense Ministry plans to dispatch several observers to the joint exercises.
They are considering making aerial observations of drills that will be held in the Sea of Japan — including one off the Noto Peninsula — but will probably stay away from any drills planned in the Pacific off the main island of Okinawa and other isles in the Nansei chain, the sources said.
The Nansei Island drills are probably being avoided to avoid alarming the Chinese.
By having South Korea take part in the exercises, Tokyo hopes to demonstrate its support for its neighbor and win Seoul's help in resolving the abduction row with North Korea, political observers said.
Japanese observers took part in joint military exercises held by the United States and South Korea in July.
The 10th joint exercises, which began in fiscal 1986, will involve about 44,000 service members from Japan and the United States and about 60 vessels and 400 aircraft.
The vessels include the aircraft carrier USS George Washington, which just completed the joint exercise with South Korea in the Yellow Sea, and Aegis-equipped destroyers from the Maritime Self-Defense Force.
The maneuvers will be carried out to practice for guarding against ballistic missile attacks and for defending remote Japanese islands.
Lee visit unlikely
South Korean President Lee Myung Bak will probably not visit Japan this month for talks with Prime Minister Naoto Kan due to Pyongyang's deadly shelling of a South Korean island, Chief Cabinet Secretary Yoshito Sengoku indicated Thursday.
"It would have been better to welcome South Korean President Lee this year," said at a news conference.
But he also said the two countries are still working on arranging a meeting between Kan and Lee.
On Monday, Kan told a meeting of lawmakers from the two countries that Lee would most likely visit in mid-December and asked for cross-party cooperation to help Tokyo deepen its ties with Seoul amid the rising tensions on the Korean Peninsula.
At the time, Kan also called for bipartisan collaboration so the government could return historic Korean artifacts when Lee visits Japan.
The Diet still has to approve a bilateral pact on Tokyo's transfer of the artifacts, and Kan was hoping it would be passed in the current legislative session, which ends Friday."
This map, from a Wiki on North Korean launch sites, shows the Sea of Japan, with South Korea on the west and Japan on the east. The Wiki says that the black circle marks a possible North Korean launch site.
The Noto Peninsula mentioned in the article above is located just above the first "O" in Tokyo.
After looking at this map, I can certainly see why, as the article says, "The maneuvers will be carried out to practice for guarding against ballistic missile attacks and for defending remote Japanese islands."
The Noto Peninsula mentioned in the article above is located just above the first "O" in Tokyo.
After looking at this map, I can certainly see why, as the article says, "The maneuvers will be carried out to practice for guarding against ballistic missile attacks and for defending remote Japanese islands."
The approval hearing for the nominee as the new South Korean Defense Minister is going on right now.
This just came via Twitter from egalite_twitted, a reporter for Yonhap News.
"SKorea defense head nominee says he will revise engagement rules to "pour all possible warfighting" assets if #NKorea attacks: hearing"
"SKorea's defense minister nominee vows to scramble air force to bomb #NKorea if it attacks again: confirmation hearing 8 minutes ago via twtkr "
This just came via Twitter from egalite_twitted, a reporter for Yonhap News.
"SKorea defense head nominee says he will revise engagement rules to "pour all possible warfighting" assets if #NKorea attacks: hearing"
"SKorea's defense minister nominee vows to scramble air force to bomb #NKorea if it attacks again: confirmation hearing 8 minutes ago via twtkr "
hypberole or not . . . chew on that for a second
http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/news...003400315.HTML
Quote:
In an opening statement at his confirmation hearing, Kim Kwang-jin said the country's security was in "the most serious crisis" since the 1950-53 Korean War.
http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/news...003400315.HTML
Quote:
In an opening statement at his confirmation hearing, Kim Kwang-jin said the country's security was in "the most serious crisis" since the 1950-53 Korean War.