EBOLA NINA PHAM Cured and goes home today

[TerryK]

Why weren't there any pictures of Duncan's family when they came out of quarantine? I would think they'd have had a press conference like this one to put all of our minds at ease regarding the contagiousness of ebola. What better example than a whole healthy family who lived with a victim of ebola??

Too many questions, no answers except lies.

They are from Liberia or wherever Duncan was from. Ebola victims and their family are stigmatized for the rest of their lives.
Back in Africa family member and Ebola survivors frequently have to run away to somewhere else if they want to live a normal life.
The government has no authority to forcibly trot them out to a news conference if the family doesn't want it.

You notice that the nurse and the doctor had no problems making a public appearance. Different social customs.
Hell Obama has already met with the just released nurse, so I bet she was poked and prodded and sterilized before she ever met with him. She should have been worried about what she could have caught from Obama.

 

[jazzy]

has anyone seen what they were treated with , was it only brantleys blood? are these people 'cured' or in remission or what. i am missing something.

and whatever is curing them or making them ebola free after just a week looking all fine and healthy--i know ive read in several places of many health problems survivors have.

also when is this magic bullet treatment going to be shared with west africa? has anyone talked about that? while i am happy for these people, something just doesnt feel right.

americans survive but no one else.
they are showing us that if someone gets it its not such a big deal and you get cured.

i feel like im missing a piece of the picture

 

[eens]

has anyone seen what they were treated with , was it only brantleys blood? are these people 'cured' or in remission or what.

They said the only treatment was Brantley's blood. They said 'cured'. I don't know what the legal definition of that is.

 

[Deanne]

Wow, I guess Ebola isn't that bad to get, to get over it in little over a week. Common cold take over 2 weeks to be cured of.

 

[LightEcho]

They said the only treatment was Brantley's blood. They said 'cured'. I don't know what the legal definition of that is.

"Cured" sounds nice, and so does "ebola-free". Any scientist would be loathe to make such a claim. It is more of a political- social declaration than a scientific diagnosis.

 

[Looks Harmless]

They said the only treatment was Brantley's blood. They said 'cured'. I don't know what the legal definition of that is.

I had read, and I don't recall the article/source, that they didn't use the term "cured", but "Ebola free." Of course, the way the party line changes....

 

[xtreme_right]

At the news conference announcing Pham's discharge, Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases at the National Institutes of Health, said she tested negative for Ebola five times, and that it wasn't clear which treatment saved her because they were all experimental.

This quote was taken from the article the OP gave.
1) why did they test her so many times?
2) what were all the experimental treatments?

 

[TerryK]

They said the only treatment was Brantley's blood. They said 'cured'. I don't know what the legal definition of that is.

"Cured" sounds nice, and so does "ebola-free". Any scientist would be loathe to make such a claim. It is more of a political- social declaration than a scientific diagnosis.

I had read, and I don't recall the article/source, that they didn't use the term "cured", but "Ebola free." Of course, the way the party line changes....

She is cured in the same way someone who gets over any viral infection such as the cold or flu is "cured" once the body fights off the virus and no live viruses can be detected in the body.

The reason they used "cured" was more a PR thing as Light Echo says. It makes the public feel better than to say she has gotten over the virus.

They used both terms "Ebola" and "Ebola Free". Saying they tested her multiple times and she was Ebola Free means a lot.

 

[Warthog]

Are they actors, and the American people the fools show?

 

[Looks Harmless]

She is cured in the same way someone who gets over any viral infection such as the cold or flu is "cured" once the body fights off the virus and no live viruses can be detected in the body.

The reason they used "cured" was more a PR thing as Light Echo says. It makes the public feel better than to say she has gotten over the virus.

They used both terms "Ebola" and "Ebola Free". Saying they tested her multiple times and she was Ebola Free means a lot.

I see little difference in the terms, myself. My comment was mostly with regards to the ever changing language TPTB choose to use. A comedy of errors if the potential outcome weren't so freakin' tragic.

 

[TerryK]

I see little difference in the terms, myself. My comment was mostly with regards to the ever changing language TPTB choose to use. A comedy of errors if the potential outcome weren't so freakin' tragic.

There is a difference in a legal sense.
However, the US hasn't had to deal with Ebola in any major public way before. It's new the language and the procedures and everything else is evolving and changing. If these cases keep popping up the language will soon become standardized as well as the treatment.
You're expecting the government to have all their ducks in a row for something they never did before????
Remember Katrina?
After that the FEMA responses got better. They still have a ways to go and will probably never get completely standardized.

I spent 20 years in the military. They are the same way. When confronted with a new situation that they haven't drilled for, the response seems like a fluster cluck.
Given some time and some more practice the response rapidly improves.
The Government is the same. They are both big bureaucracies and it takes a while for them to adapt and change course.
For many years the CDC has essentially been farting around with trying to predict next years flu variant and getting Americans to adapt better health practices and patting themselves on the back for working on improving disease fighting in 3rd world countries. If the elections get the dems out of the Senate, look for congressional investigations into how the CDC has been spending their funding for many years now. The investigations will go on for years and accomplish nothing. Such is government.

Hanlon's Razor: "Never attribute to malice that which can adequately be explained by stupidity and incompetence"

Hey look at the bright side. If we continue to get a new Ebola case every week or so we will get pretty good at handling Ebola in the onesies and twosies, and will raise the survival rate up to 90% or so. Of course that won't help much if we get a true epidemic,
What works on a small scale, frequently doesn't scale up to large scale so well.

 

[Doomer Doug]

There is something going on with Ebola in the USA.

We get the Duncan case where he has the RO of two. Next, we now have the two nurses he infected with no Ebola virus in them. They also didn't infect anybody we know about. All five of the Duncan family avoided infection also. Yep, something is strange here.

 

[TerryK]

There is something going on with Ebola in the USA.

We get the Duncan case where he has the RO of two. Next, we now have the two nurses he infected with no Ebola virus in them. They also didn't infect anybody we know about. All five of the Duncan family avoided infection also. Yep, something is strange here.

It's R0 sometimes called R naught. It is not an immutable scientific law. It is a number that is developed from past experience. Up until recently all that Ebola experience involved in calculating that R0 was in Africa.
The factors and customs involving chances of infecting others are different here.

 

[Emilys]

I had severe food poisoning in my mid 20s. Took over a week to recover and even then, I was weak for weeks. After I got better, I did only the minimum I could get away with doing and stayed in bed the rest of the time, trying to get my strength back. This woman has EBOLA, recovers, does a press conference, and MEETS THE PRESIDENT - all on the same day? That is truly amazing.

 

[cjoi]

Interesting thought about your post. No question is dumb i guess. Can Ebola go into "remission"?

"Remission is a term that physicians (or other people in the medical profession) to refer to the absence of disease activity within a patient in the setting of a chronic disease or illness. It implies that there is a potential chance for recurrence (relapse), but doesn't tell anything about the chances of this occurring".

https://www.zocdoc.com/answers/9330/what-does-it-mean-when-cancer-is-in-remission

I have been fretting about this for weeks. It is a BIG deal. Haven't found an answer anywhere. I have a feeling the CDC really doesn't "want to go there."
Maybe I missed something from the PFI or other medical experts here.

Please. Could someone help?

And anyone who has experienced the reprise of Chicken Pox as Shingles can most definitely appreciate this line of inquiry! Wondering how long before we start to get some idea of the possibility of -and form of - any sequelae.
E.g., Mononucleosis (supposedly "self-limiting") is followed by the known sequelae of Multiple Sclerosis then naso-pharyngeal carcinomas...all of which are caused by Epstein-Barr Virus which is one of the Simian virii which universally contaminated all Polio vaccines made from Green Monkey kidneys. No telling what surprises may or may not show up in those so-called cured of Ebola...

 

[Waz1152]

Am actually waiting for them to announce it was not only Blood that made her clear, BUT a New vaccine they are trialling cured her
NOW everyone Line up for your free shot
Hope it is all not just BS and a typical ploy to allay peoples fears, and she wasn't sick at all, just kept her isolated for appearances, well fed and nourished
Sheesh my tin foil hat may be too tight

 

[Vegas321]

I glad she has recovered. She was the only HC worker at this point to follow the dam rules. I wish her the best!

 

[Kris Gandillon]

Am actually waiting for them to announce it was not only Blood that made her clear, BUT a New vaccine they are trialling cured her
NOW everyone Line up for your free shot
Hope it is all not just BS and a typical ploy to allay peoples fears, and she wasn't sick at all, just kept her isolated for appearances, well fed and nourished
Sheesh my tin foil hat may be too tight

Vaccines are not a treatment after you get sick.

Vaccines, when they work, prevent you from getting the disease to begin with.

 

[Betty_Rose]

I glad she has recovered. She was the only HC worker at this point to follow the dam rules. I wish her the best!

Hear, hear.

And she's of Asian descent. She and her type may be our best hope for the future, because the black race is hell-bent on destroying itself, and the white race seems to have embraced idiocracy.

 

[Betty_Rose]

Vaccines are not a treatment after you get sick.

Vaccines, when they work, prevent you from getting the disease to begin with.

That's not altogether true.

If you're exposed to rabies (another virus, which some say has similarities to Ebola), the "treatment" is four doses of VACCINE over a 14-day period, and a dose of rabies immunoglobulin (RIG).

Immediate treatment is needed, because this series of vaccinations inspires your immune system to start producing antibodies, and if you receive treatment soon enough after exposure to a rabid animal, your body's immune system can "out run the virus" and create sufficient antibodies to protect you.

So the "cure" for rabies is nothing more than a vaccine. And if you miss that window after being bitten, scratched, spit on, etc., your odds of survival are very, very poor.

I've read that the cure for Ebola may (may) ultimately have close ties to the current treatment for rabies.

BTW, my dog was exposed to a rabid (dying) animal in our back yard and I had to learn a lot about rabies in a hurry. The rabies virus causes all manner of neurological problems and that's why rabid animals are so dangerous. The dying critter in our yard (discovered by our little dog) was literally out of its mind, but even in its deranged state, it expressed no desire to go bowling.

 

[Plain Jane]

I agree that Nurse Pham has set a good example, and I bet she had little to no support when she first started treating Mr. Duncan. I know that the boyfriend is still in question, but really. What is a young couple, likely with little savings supposed to do when faced with an immediate need for separate housing? She did the best she could in an impossible situation.

 

[MtnGal]

I realize this is off in left field but it bothers me. Why? Because obama is evil and will go to any lengths to achieve his goals.

Obama met with staff that cared for Duncan, hugged and kissed nurses. That was in news and obama said he hugged and kissed them at a press conference.

Did he have a private meeting with Pham and the other nurse?

Shortly after the nurses came down with ebola. ????

There is just something not right, don't know what but my gut says there are shenanigans going on.

Someone help me see things in reality if there is such a thing left in this crooked world.

 

[summerthyme]

That's not altogether true.

If you're exposed to rabies (another virus, which some say has similarities to Ebola), the "treatment" is four doses of VACCINE over a 14-day period, and a dose of rabies immunoglobulin (RIG).

Immediate treatment is needed, because this series of vaccinations inspires your immune system to start producing antibodies, and if you receive treatment soon enough after exposure to a rabid animal, your body's immune system can "out run the virus" and create sufficient antibodies to protect you.

So the "cure" for rabies is nothing more than a vaccine. And if you miss that window after being bitten, scratched, spit on, etc., your odds of survival are very, very poor.

I've read that the cure for Ebola may (may) ultimately have close ties to the current treatment for rabies.

BTW, my dog was exposed to a rabid (dying) animal in our back yard and I had to learn a lot about rabies in a hurry. The rabies virus causes all manner of neurological problems and that's why rabid animals are so dangerous. The dying critter in our yard (discovered by our little dog) was literally out of its mind, but even in its deranged state, it expressed no desire to go bowling.

No, Kris is still right. Getting the rabies vaccine AFTER YOU DEVELOP SYMPTOMS is useless. Presumably, it MIGHT be possible to develop an Ebola vaccine (given that Ebola and rabies are both filoviruses) that would work after exposure, but before symptoms develop.

Summerthyme

 

[Countrymouse]

Sure are a lot of hugs that linked series of pics.
...Aren't we supposed to NOT do that??

Diamond's explaination of the weight gain is the only one I have come across. I really wish the medical establishment would elaborate more, and substanciate this. How is it people come out of this nightmare (that they were nearly dead of about a week before) looking like cherubs?

I'm not that old - I never look fresh as a daisy even on a good day.

Good for Nina Pham, but I am still skeptical about these cases.

I do remember both Dr. Brantley AND Nurse Writebol talking about how much weight they had LOST, not gained.

In Brantley's case I believe it was 25 lbs?

And I assume they would have given HIM steroids, too.

He's not that much older that this nurse--she's in her 20's, he is (I think) 33.

so...????

 

[Countrymouse]

It's R0 sometimes called R naught. It is not an immutable scientific law. It is a number that is developed from past experience. Up until recently all that Ebola experience involved in calculating that R0 was in Africa.
The factors and customs involving chances of infecting others are different here.

The factors and customs involving chances of infecting others are different here.

The "customs" I understand---we do not have family members bathing the dead body of their deceased relative, touching, kissing, and hugging it (though a LONG time ago, it used to be a custom to "kiss grandma goodbye"--I've read many stories of little children in the 1800's and early 1900's being lifted up to the casket to do that).

But the "factors"? How are they different?

As another thread on Main asks---is Ebola Zaire in Africa different from Ebola Zaire in America---and if so, why?

I know it can mutate---but if it's mutated to a "weaker" form of ebola, it sure did that fast---from the ONE patient Duncan to every single person associated with him---or an associate of an associate---since.

One jump---and it's changed that much?


Because we know Duncan definitely had the really bad version of Ebola---time from exposure to symptoms was 10 days, and to death was 24 days (http://www.timebomb2000.com/vb/showthread.php?457691-Ebola-Calendar&p=5408646#post5408646)---and some believe his life was essentially 'over' prior to that, and he was merely being kept alive by machine (resuscitation) the last few days, until his sister from NC could get there.

And the HCW's in Africa---at least until they were overwhelmed and the entire system broke down--WERE using Level 4 protection--we've all seen the moon suits and the de-contamination protocols they followed---and over a hundred STILL died, in the early days before it got on all of our radars about June / July.

So.... the "factors"? How are they different?

What makes us so special that we can / will /are dodging the bullet any better than Africa? ("IF" indeed we are).

 

[night driver]

Why weren't there any pictures of Duncan's family when they came out of quarantine? I would think they'd have had a press conference like this one to put all of our minds at ease regarding the contagiousness of ebola. What better example than a whole healthy family who lived with a victim of ebola??

Too many questions, no answers except lies.

Where is it written that their responsibility is to become media whores to put our questions to rest?

 

[night driver]

ref vax as cure....

remember that Smallpox vax can be given up to 7-10 days after exposure and STILL PREVENT smallpox due to the incubation period...

 

[Betty_Rose]

Where is it written that their responsibility is to become media whores to put our questions to rest?

It's not about their becoming "media whores." It's about the media not chasing them down streets and alleyways, or photographers dangling from a Silver Maple tree, desperate to get a single shot of them walking into a building somewhere.

As someone else said, this is really bizarre in too many ways to count. The media seems to be ignoring what could be the biggest story of the 21st Century, and that just does not make any sense at all.

 

[MtnGal]

Where is it written that their responsibility is to become media whores to put our questions to rest?

Where is Anderson Cooper, where is Oprah, where is the view? They always go after people like this. It's just way out of the norm or the normal programming.

 

[Countrymouse]

She is cured in the same way someone who gets over any viral infection such as the cold or flu is "cured" once the body fights off the virus and no live viruses can be detected in the body.

The reason they used "cured" was more a PR thing as Light Echo says. It makes the public feel better than to say she has gotten over the virus.

They used both terms "Ebola" and "Ebola Free". Saying they tested her multiple times and she was Ebola Free means a lot.

The problem with this language is---if they want to be "truthful"---is that it is physically and medically IMPOSSIBLE -- per the WHO's and CDC's own earlier-published info (which I have posted several times about this) for her body to be "ebola-free."

Her body may have "fought down" the virus such that she no longer has symptoms and is not any longer in danger of dying from it, and antibodies to it are now actively defending her system, but if the information from the CDC and WHO about how long ebola lives in body fluids are true, then there is NO WAY she could be "free" of ebola virus in all fluids of her body so soon, when their own studies show it can still be in the system up to 90 days after recovery.

 

[eens]

Where is it written that their responsibility is to become media whores to put our questions to rest?

I don't think one freakin' picture of a smiling, happy, healthy family would make them media whores.

Ebola is not the run of the mill flu or cold, it is a HIGHLY contagious fatal disease that their friend brought into this country endangering all of us.

 

[diamonds]

I do remember both Dr. Brantley AND Nurse Writebol talking about how much weight they had LOST, not gained.

In Brantley's case I believe it was 25 lbs?

And I assume they would have given HIM steroids, too.

He's not that much older that this nurse--she's in her 20's, he is (I think) 33.

so...????

Each person is different...Each case could have different levels of viral load in their system... Every person's immune response is different.. There is no way to list all the variables...

Just like the flu... One person may be a lot sicker than another...

 

[TerryK]

The factors and customs involving chances of infecting others are different here.

The "customs" I understand---we do not have family members bathing the dead body of their deceased relative, touching, kissing, and hugging it (though a LONG time ago, it used to be a custom to "kiss grandma goodbye"--I've read many stories of little children in the 1800's and early 1900's being lifted up to the casket to do that).

But the "factors"? How are they different?

As another thread on Main asks---is Ebola Zaire in Africa different from Ebola Zaire in America---and if so, why?

I know it can mutate---but if it's mutated to a "weaker" form of ebola, it sure did that fast---from the ONE patient Duncan to every single person associated with him---or an associate of an associate---since.

One jump---and it's changed that much?


Because we know Duncan definitely had the really bad version of Ebola---time from exposure to symptoms was 10 days, and to death was 24 days (http://www.timebomb2000.com/vb/showthread.php?457691-Ebola-Calendar&p=5408646#post5408646)---and some believe his life was essentially 'over' prior to that, and he was merely being kept alive by machine (resuscitation) the last few days, until his sister from NC could get there.

And the HCW's in Africa---at least until they were overwhelmed and the entire system broke down--WERE using Level 4 protection--we've all seen the moon suits and the de-contamination protocols they followed---and over a hundred STILL died, in the early days before it got on all of our radars about June / July.

So.... the "factors"? How are they different?

What makes us so special that we can / will /are dodging the bullet any better than Africa? ("IF" indeed we are).

We are not special and I am willing to bet that the virus here and in Africa right now are the same.
After all the virus came directly from Africa. Hell the two nurses and the doctor caught it from an African who go it from Africa.

What factors are different is the environment here and the customs. As you said we don't take our dead home and wash them or usually touch them anymore. We also don't try to home care for sick family who are bleeding out different orifices and projectile vomiting. We are also more careful in cleaning up bodily fluids such as vomit and just not coming in contact with it to start.

Mr. Duncans case was far more advanced by the second time he went to the hospital than either of the nurses or the doctor. I bet if the hospital would have recognized Ebola on his first visit he would be alive right now.
Early treatment once the Ebola test indicates positive and at the very first signs of symptoms seems to be a big factor in increasing the probability of survival. Fluid and electrolyte replacement right from the start, along with antibodies seem to make a difference.
A couple more cases caught early will verify if this is true.

An interesting point is that most healthcare workers who have had Ebola and recovered, can't pinpoint when they screwed up and came in contact with bodily fluids.
They can't point to a failure in their equipment or even a time in their procedures when they messed up.
BUT, almost all the health care workers who had direct contact with critically sick Ebola patients also had relatively unprotected contact with hundreds of people they were seeing in the clinics. People not yet diagnosed with Ebola.
The point is that many are starting to theorize that many HCW are contracting Ebola not while they are in their moon suits, but in more relaxed clinical environments.
This doesn't bode well for the way our hospitals screen incoming patients.

 

[TerryK]

The problem with this language is---if they want to be "truthful"---is that it is physically and medically IMPOSSIBLE -- per the WHO's and CDC's own earlier-published info (which I have posted several times about this) for her body to be "ebola-free."
Her body may have "fought down" the virus such that she no longer has symptoms and is not any longer in danger of dying from it, and antibodies to it are now actively defending her system, but if the information from the CDC and WHO about how long ebola lives in body fluids are true, then there is NO WAY she could be "free" of ebola virus in all fluids of her body so soon, when their own studies show it can still be in the system up to 90 days after recovery.

Who ever accused the government and CDC of being truthful?
The main purpose of all their announcements right now it to placate the general public and avoid a panic.

No one is going to catch Ebola from her right now with normal contact. Do you think they would have let her near Obama if there was any chance in hell she was contagious
Sure there may be some deep recesses in her body where a few of the viruses haven't yet given up the ghost, but unless she is ran through a meat grinder and then sprinkled on people, they are relatively safe.
Other than that, you aren't going to catch ebola from shaking hands with her or drinking out of the same glass.
Now, if she was a he, then yes he/she's sperm could still contain detectable levels of virus.
Even so, I'll bet she was given some unpublicized precautions to follow for the next couple of months.
They did mention something to that effect during one of their press conferences. They said "private and undisclosed measures"

Hell, I bet they will be asking her to donate blood, once she is completely recovered, so they can provide antibodies to others.

 

[TerryK]

ref vax as cure....

remember that Smallpox vax can be given up to 7-10 days after exposure and STILL PREVENT smallpox due to the incubation period...

Yes and the Canadian Ebola Vaccine was proved to be effective in animals when given in the very early stages of the disease.
They didn't elaborate on exactly how early.

 

[TerryK]

I do remember both Dr. Brantley AND Nurse Writebol talking about how much weight they had LOST, not gained.

In Brantley's case I believe it was 25 lbs?

And I assume they would have given HIM steroids, too.

He's not that much older that this nurse--she's in her 20's, he is (I think) 33.

so...????

Trust me, moon face does not mean she gained weight. Facial swelling is common with steroids.
I had steroids when I had pheumonia and my face, not my whole body swelled.
My son took steroids for over a year with ulcerative colitis and besides moon face he had many other side effects from the steroids. Yes, taken long term they do cause weight gain. The nurse has not been on them long term.

 

[Dex]

I'm not buying it. Just can't anymore. Too many lies. I don't know what to believe anymore but one thing is for sure, I don't believe anything "the authorities" say.

 

[nomadcrna]

OMG, some of these posts. You ever think the the first picture was old? Maybe when she was slimmer?
Some of you really need to get a grip. Everything is not a conspiracy.