LEGAL Need rental contract advice.

[Satanta]

FL and I are planning to rent out a bedroom. We already know some of the people interested but want to write up a contract of "Do's and Dont's" rather than "Hey you're a friend so here it is..."

I've discussed different prices and options and she has her own thoughts on it

include food/don't include food [[I've seen ac couple of these folks eat-one, no prob but the other is a fod vaccuum]]

Price.

I think $600mth for room/bath which includes amenities such as internet, electric, water, heat, AC, washer/dryer, kitchen and so on is far more than fair even cheap but that's the price she seems to want plus $200 for food.

I do not like adding food in, even with the other person paying-I see more issues than benefits, especially going to three squares plus a day.

Certain things I have probs with-Slammage of doors, dropping toilet seats and someone being a general nuisance.

I assume the renter has no responsibilities of maintenance and keeping the place clean which is fine-people get in the way but I also do not want someone encroaching on the other areas of the house, family meals and holidays unless invited. Which means when I start cooking don;t decide to come hang out asking questions and making remarks about how good of a cook I am and all they have is so-n-so because they ate everything else.

Anyway-you get the drift. Room and bath with amenities and leave me/us the hell alone unless invited.

I also want a "30 day notice with deposit and we can toss you and your crap on the lawn if you screw the pooch." clause.

 

[TerryK]

Just from the conditions you listed I am pretty sure you aren't going to be happy with any renter.
Taking someone into your house can be a real pain. Even friends.
Make that especially friends

 

[goatlady2]

My goodness, guess prices are far different where you are than where I am. What you are considering is almost double my current mortgage payment on 20 acres, house, etc. I "rent" my guest room for just the increase in utilities and they always furnish their own groceries, but have full kitchen privilages to fix their meals - plus they clean up after themselves. They also pay for their long distance calls. I figure I already handle the basics for myself anyway and it costs no more to add another line to the router for internet, and run another cable to the TV. But everyone is different. You WILL want to have something down/discussed concerning potentially coming home at 3 a.m. or even leaving at that time of the morning! And they need to be responsible for keeping their area clean to YOUR standards, not theirs.

 

[Dennis Olson]

WAY too much money. For a room? $400 + 1/3 utilities. As to food, the boarder will be responsible for their own food. Packages will be labelled by the boarder as theirs. Don't get greedy....

 

[Meemur]

Don't do it, unless you have a basement apartment or are on 1/2 of a duplex. Renting in that tight of a space doesn't work well outside of college environments.

Perhaps you can downsize to a smaller place if money is a problem.

It's not worth giving up your privacy.

 

[summerthyme]

I think it's going to add immense stress to your lives. Only you guys know whether or not the financial stresses are worse than the loss of privacy, etc that WILL happen.

Sat... I think you're a great guy, but I also think you don't like people in general all that well. (as an introvert who likes people in SMALL doses, that's not meant as criticism!) This sort of thing can work if you can somehow set something up with a separate entrance (basically an efficiency apartment). But unless you get another introvert who basically stays in their room most of the time when they're not at work, I have a feeling no matter who you end up with, they will get on your nerves in a big way sooner than you might think.

But if you decide to try it, I'd say "absolutely DO NOT include "food" of any sort" in the price, for starters. I also feel the price may be high, but it hugely depends on the area- around here, you can get a 1 bedroom apartment with utilities for under $500.

The renter should be responsible for keeping their room clean... personal standards all vary, but it should AT LEAST be kept to a point that the Health Department wouldn't have problems if they saw it! That means food wrappers need to be tossed, any dirty dishes need to be brought to the kitchen and washed, and dirty clothes shouldn't be left on the floor until they begin to compost. (but, if you guys are neatniks, you need to know that beyond the "health department standards" you really have no say in how they keep it- if it's a pigsty, but isn't likely to attract vermin or risk a fire, that's their choice... all you can do is ask them to keep their door closed and not let it bug you)

They really need kitchen privileges, which probably includes either letting them have one shelf in the fridge, or (probably MUCH better) someone- either you or the renter- buying a small dorm fridge for their foods. Then you need to agree on them cleaning up any messes they make, and how you'll juggle the kitchen so you don't go nuts. It won't be easy!

Also spell out things like "you buy your own laundry detergent, shampoo, and any other personal items". You guys probably would provide basic cleansers for the bathroom.

A couple other thoughts- talk to your homeowners insurance agent before you do ANYthing!! (would you be covered if one of your pets craps on/chews up/destroys a laptop computer, for example?)

And, while it sounds like overkill, having a lawyer write up the contract may well save you many times what their fee would be. For one thing, they know what eviction/notice laws are in your area.

Personally, I wouldn't do it unless A; we would lose our home otherwise, and B: it would be for a limited time (say, we had big medical bills and were having problems keeping up with the utilities, etc- if having a boarder for 12 months would let us get caught up, I might consider it) But it would have to be that dire of a situation for me to ever consider it... and I'm not sure it would work then.

Summerthyme

 

[Seeker]

Privacy will be your issue, with another person coming and going or worse . . . wanting to share your lives. Choose very carefully. Someone totally involved in their profession, who works long hours and is therefore GONE most of the time. Someone who is not actively dating or "looking" . . . all sorts of problems there. Older, mature, but . . not elderly, unless in extremely good health. And have a "damage clause" of some sort for whatever that is yours that they will use or have access to. Also, up your liability insurance . . . And you will need to change your locks when they move out.

I wouldn't include food unless your do plan to run a boarding house with set hours for meals. Otherwise, give them space in your fridge, insist they clean up after any cooking they do. You might "allow" breakfast of cereal, toast, juice/coffee but dinner would be invitation only or prearranged. JMHO.

AND, make sure they're not allergic to cats.

 

[imaginative]

There are so many minefields in this situation....run away while you can.

 

[Cardinal]

Will you be comfortable with anyone they bring home for recreational purposes? If that person is a lib who would turn you in for having eeeevil guns/preps?Can't control that sort of thing ya know.

 

[summerthyme]

Will you be comfortable with anyone they bring home for recreational purposes? If that person is a lib who would turn you in for having eeeevil guns/preps?Can't control that sort of thing ya know.

THAT would concern me, especially with some of Sat's, um... interesting... hobbies.

Make sure anyone you are considering can handle you butchering deer in the kitchen or on the property!

Summerthyme

 

[Dennis Olson]

Additionally, unless you know the boarder personally, what might their criminal history be? Might you come home one day to find your house cleaned out? Not worth the risk.

 

[Double_A]

FYI, in some states renting out a room in your property does not make the person a "renter" it make them a "boarder" and there is a significant legal difference.

The extensive legal rights given to renters, do not apply to boarders.

This my not have any practical bering on you but just be away it greatly reduces your legal obligations and your boarders rights

 

[Taz]

Living in a tent does not seem a bad alternative compared to this scheme! You just aren't going to be able to cut it, Sat. You will be miserable!

 

[Satanta]

Will you be comfortable with anyone they bring home for recreational purposes? If that person is a lib who would turn you in for having eeeevil guns/preps?Can't control that sort of thing ya know.

Well...if it was an 18-something, smoking hot lesbian and her friend was the same I could deal.

Living in a tent does not seem a bad alternative compared to this scheme! You just aren't going to be able to cut it, Sat. You will be miserable!

Yeah, that's my concern but we also have the med bills and such. At most I'd tolerate a four month rent and deal with it.

We do know a couple of them were are considering-no issues with the idea of them ripping off the house but I've seen how one lives and there are issues with their habits and such.

 

[CGTech]

I can see where Sat is coming from, as far as the bills needing to be paid. Getting very close to that kind of situation ourselves. That being said, the price does seem a little high, especially if it's room only, and not room & board.. just my opinion though. Might wish to check the papers for costs on apartments / r & b in your area, see what the going rate is.

 

[Dux]

Roommate situations, I found better done without anything signed. OK with house rules. Otherwise, really, you should be able to ask them to leave at will. Sharing food is hard.

Most of the comments here are spot on Sat, and you'd probably end up killing your roomie.

I do personally think a prepper roomie would be great. I found it fairly easy to find good roomies in college towns, but never in the suburbs.

 

[Mrs Smith]

If I were getting a bedroom only, I'd expect to pay very minimal rent, probably no more than $125/month. $600/month pays my mortgage+ on 3BR, 1 1/2BA home.

 

[Michigan Majik]

How big is this room? Is it semi isolated from the rest of the house (the part you live in)?
Do they work? I figure if they work all day you'll have some time to yourself.
Definitely do not provide food.

Remember that if they pay rent there they have the right to have company. You can't tell their company when to leave...
From personal experience and experiences of people on this board (in the past) I think it's a risky idea.
Once people are in it's sometimes hard to get them out. If you go off on them or make threats
they could get you for domestic violence... <--- Worst case scenario I know, but you gotta think of everything that could happen before making a huge decision like this.
One of my GFs rented her upstairs (with bath) to a couple students. Kitchen privileges included. Nice girls at first..
She went thru hell trying to get them out....

 

[closet squirrel]

Depends where you live. Around here $600 a month for a room with kitchen and laundry privileges is normal. That usually includes electricity and cable.

 

[Kathy in FL]

You need to know exactly what your state's law is regarding leases. Different states allow for different things. Some states also require specific language be included in the lease. Some states, such as Florida, won't allow sublets. Some leases allow for addendums but some states require them to be called specific things depending on what their purpose is. You really need to know what your state law is.

 

[mzkitty]

Well, here's some Craigslists of rooms for rent in NC. Prices are all over the place.

http://raleigh.craigslist.org/roo/

If it was me, Sat, I would not do it. Your medical bills will take $50 a month or whatever. As long as you pay them something.

 

[Jerry]

I live in close proximity to a college and most rooms with a shared bath are in the $500 to $650 range. Rooms with a private bath are in the $575 to $750 range. Some of those prices include utilities, some don't. All have kitchen with refrigerator privileges, none I have seen include meals. If the living room is not fully shared there is some language about that and also about having friends over for both sides. If they are excluded from your social activities then say it up front. If a commuter or working individual would work better, then so state.

One thing to remember is that their room is their territory and you should emphasize that by installing a dead bolt into their door. You will also have to give up some of your territorial instincts - you have invited them into your home; some sense of welcome, both physical and emotional is appropriate (and difficult to offer at times). The last I would offer to consider is to talk about it and then give it a short try it out. Probation for both sides so to speak - no harm, no foul, just try it out.

Check onto Craig's list for shared rooms at local pricing. Good luck on this one - (phew....)

 

[Now-Later]

if you go with the food privileges, they will eat you out of house and home
Been there

 

[Satanta]

If I were getting a bedroom only, I'd expect to pay very minimal rent, probably no more than $125/month. $600/month pays my mortgage+ on 3BR, 1 1/2BA home.

I'd do that. No cable, no internet, no house priveledges, Then you'd have to pay 1/3 of the water, electric, whatever and buy your own food.

We're not renting this as a gift to someone.

I challenge ayone to find an apartment with all the stuff included plus the possibility of food...include laundry, dishes, cookware and so on and do it for $125 or even $400.

 

[Markus Archus]

I challenge ayone to find an apartment with all the stuff included plus the possibility of food...include laundry, dishes, cookware and so on and do it for $125 or even $400.

I charge my own son more than that.

 

[Maryh]

When our son graduated from college and got a job nearby, he lived with us a yr. We have a small mother-in-law apt. with kitchen and bath. We charged him $350 a month. He had use of our laundry and usually ate dinner with us. Utilities were included cause we have no separate meters. He now lives downtown in a one bedroom third floor loft and pays $400 plus utilities. This is in Ohio.

 

[ofuzzy1]

Overall lean to the NO!
-- I agree with Summerthyme -- She said it well & with love.

Certainly NO sharing food & require that they get a dorm fridge for their room.
Kitchen use, prompt cleanup is required.

I had the whole gambit of roommates.
-- Most were slobs and some played music way to loud, some with really bad friends.
Thankfully only one thief.

Make a rule sheet get it signed and keep a copy posted.
- Issues relating to noise, area usage, cleaning, ...

If sharing the internet then set up a good router [dd-wrt.org loaded] to limit the bandwidth and even separate the connections.

 

[FireDance]

I wouldn't if I could avoid it. Start cooking with lentils or something. This "option" is suggested to me all the time but there are not a lot of people that I'd ever want to live with. Even living with your own spouse or child can be hard at times. Eww no thanks.

 

[ivantherussian03]

Given your list of things that would be an inconvenience to yourself or your family your not being realistic. Having a renter of a bedroom in your house almost by definition means inconvenience, unless the renter has a teleport into the bedroom, and uses the bathroom at the gas station. It sounds you like you want someone to give 600 dollars and disappear, till the next month's rent is due.

It sounds your headed for disappointment, and a bad experience. Just my opinion.

 

[diamonds]

Remember--If you do this you become a landlord... That means they are not there to make your life easier except financially... Lose their key, run out of hot water, laundry facilities not available at their convenience, your meal times are not their issue and the list goes on.. It becomes your responsibility to bend... Good luck...

 

[wab54]

I would not put someone in my house.

If it was me..... I would buy one of those premade Storage buildings about 12X20 or 12X24 and place it in the yard. You can make a one room apartment real easy and cheap with it. electric or gas space heater, stove/oven, refrigerator, small bath with commode and shower stall. Insulate it, wire it, plumb it and paint it. It would be real easy and fairly cheap too. It would let you keep you peace of mind.


WAB

 

[Willow]

I've rented out a room before and no matter how hard you try....the renters become a part of your life. If they have to use your kitchen to store their food or use the living areas of the house, they will impact your life in personal ways. And no matter how hard you might try, having someone else there will annoy you. Sometimes the annoyances are little and you can get by but other times they will disrupt the household and make life miserable for all.

Keep in mind that I am a very easy going person and having a renter got on my nerves regularly. If there are habits that the renter has now...before they move in...that annoyes you, those things will be magnified when they move in and live under your roof. They will not get better. If they are messy now, even a rental contract won't improve that and they will be messy while living with you.

I guess you have to figure out how important it is to have that rental and how much you can handle when their habits get on your nerves. While you can say you are going to throw them out if they don't comply it isn't that easy to get a renter removed from the premises....depending on the laws of your town..area, etc.

I have to say I am amazed at the rent dollar amount. It is about twice what we can get around here.

Willow

 

[Dennis Olson]

I would not put someone in my house.

If it was me..... I would buy one of those premade Storage buildings about 12X20 or 12X24 and place it in the yard. You can make a one room apartment real easy and cheap with it. electric or gas space heater, stove/oven, refrigerator, small bath with commode and shower stall. Insulate it, wire it, plumb it and paint it. It would be real easy and fairly cheap too. It would let you keep you peace of mind.


WAB

They live in a residential area, not on a farm or homestead. Not enough room, and I'm certain the zoning regulations would forbid your idea.

 

[willowlady]

$600 a month might make such a huge difference to Sat that he and FL are more able to flex with the added difficulties of a renter. Their life, their choice. Good advice given above regarding the caveats. IMO, including food in the rental price is a big mistake. What constitutes "food?" Three meals? Maybe, maybe not. What about midnight snacks? IF the renter kicks in a substantial amount of food, fine, offer to cook it jointly if you feel like it. But renter is going to keep track of the 2/3rds that you and FL eat, and expect some kind of reciprocation. Maybe get a cheap fridge, via, and set it on the back porch or something, for their use exclusively. If things continue the way they are, at some point in the future, DH and I will face the same kind of choice. You can certainly include in any contract things like: No drugs, smoking or alcohol on property. Reasonable tidiness in their room. No overnight visitors; visitors must leave property by 1:00 a.m. the next morning. Exceptions can by made by prior arrangement with permission of landlords, and with specific approval for each exception. You get the idea. If you want to stay where you are, and the $$$ makes that big a difference, go for it.

 

[nomifyle]

I had roommates when I was in my early 20's, they used my stuff and generally made a mess. They even thought they should be able to use my car, NOT. That said, if you really really have no other way to bring in some extra money, then you will have to be willing to make some consessions of your own. This person will be living in your house, they will not be invisible. I you can't deal with this then it will not work and you will have a mess on your hands.

Best of luck with what ever you decide to do. I live in a camper so I don't have to deal with someone elses crap.

Judy

 

[Kathy in FL]

You guys act like being a landlord is an impossible job. Its not. Is it difficult at times? Yes. But then again so is any job. But I can guarantee that despite the inherent problems, it is better than starving.

People did this all the time during the Depression. Actually, until the 50s and 60s it wasn't all that uncommon for people to rent rooms out in their homes to cover their personal expenses.

We do not know how long things are going to be able to keep tripping along as they are with food stamps, entitlements, medicare/caid, and all of the other social nets out there that are currently available. People need to figure out how they are going to survive now. I think both Sat and FL are being very proactive. They aren't whining about their situation. They are doing what they have to do to get by which is more than I can say for a lot of people out there with their hands out to the government if not right down in my own personal pockets.

I gotta tell you, I respect Sat and FL alot and this is one of the reasons why. They know what it is like to have few to no options but I don't see them giving up and jumping on the bandwagon of failure. What I see is that they are being creative and using what they have. If more of this was going on in society in general we'd be a lot better off as a country than we are right now.

This is nothing more than a temporary inconvenience that offers them a good and honest way to pay their bills. With proper forethought and planning this will certainly allow them to hang onto their pride and get out from under something that is a burden for them. To me that spells win-win.

Attitude goes a long way towards success in this life. Sat and FL have the right attitude.

 

[Hansa44]

I'm living in that type of room rental right now. But lest I forget I am going to tell you about this particular problem that can drive the people living downstairs absolutely mad.

And that's the walkers. Seems most men and some women have a nasty habit of thumping their way across a floor. Thump, thump, thump, thump, thump. This can occur any time day or night. Telling them to stop it will not do any good AT ALL!!!
Most have been walking this way since they were kids. They will not realize they are doing it and constantly forget they are making this racket. And almost 100% of them use solid built shoes. They will be in shock if you ask them to wear slippers and they will refuse. Usually the thumping gets louder once they discover it annoys you occassionally.

If you sit down to read a good book or watch tv or just have some personal quiet is when the thumping will start. Also, unless you put locks on EVERYTHING, they more than likely will check it all out. Even without kitchen privileges, you may start to notice small items from your fridge start to turn up missing. I know FL drinks Dr.Pepper. She may put 5 in the fridge but only see 4 in there. This includes leftovers.

I've got a list a mile long about sharing part of your home with a renter.

I realize you are desperate to bring in more money. But even a situation like this can break up a good marriage. Is it worth it?

 

[RobinYyes]

An apartment is very different from renting a room and use of a shared bathroom along with limited kitchen privledges Sat. Even here in Southern California that is a pretty high rate you are expecting. I can't imagine that the friendship would survive such a deal and when that blows up you'll have the added stress of legal problems in dealing with it. For example in many states you can only charge a percentage of your rent (not half) for the rental of a room. You might want to look into the legalities before you start laying down the law.

 

[Hansa44]

An apartment is very different from renting a room and use of a shared bathroom along with limited kitchen privledges Sat. Even here in Southern California that is a pretty high rate you are expecting. I can't imagine that the friendship would survive such a deal and when that blows up you'll have the added stress of legal problems in dealing with it. For example in many states you can only charge a percentage of your rent (not half) for the rental of a room. You might want to look into the legalities before you start laying down the law.

If there are 3 ppl living in the house then he also needs to charge them 1/3 of utilities. And don't forget TV, internet and whatever else they benefit from. 1/3 of everything.

 

[Double_A]

My brother does this. He has a large house 4 BR 3BR and charges $600/month for a bedroom & their own bathroom with kitchen privileges to two boarders. This house is less than 10 yrs old and upscale it's a nice place.

He's has University students mostly. One was a civil engineer, another a nursing student, another a Criminal Justice major looking for work as a cop.

He dropped cable TV and instead got the highest speed internet he could. He found none of them wanted to watch TV in a common area like a living room. A hi-speed net connection in each bedroom (with wireless) made everyone happy. They keep to themselves and mostly stay in their bedrooms. Some of them have cooked and when they do they cook for EVERYONE. One was a very good cook. They use their place to sleep and as a refuge when they need time away from everyone. IIRC all had boyfriends/girlfriends and frankly they had apartment and spent much of their time at their GF or BF's apartment, it's there where they did most of their cooking. If they cooked at all they are university students fast food is what they ate. Except for the guy interviewing with police departments all were women

It works well for him and he has had very few problems but he is VERY selective and spend quite a bit of time in a conversation with his boarders. He'll talk and walk around the place with his final candidates for a couple of hours before making a decision

They pay a bit more than half the mortgage, it has allowed him to keep the house when it was very tough for him and he almost lost the house. He's back on his feet and keep the situation as there is always someone home. He's upgraded home security with combo locks on the front door, and gives no keys to anybody. He recently bought an IP CCTV system with a camera covering the front, side and back of his house. He's in sales and out at all times and can monitor everything with his iPhone & iPad.