CORP/BIZ National coin shortage ?

West

Senior
The $1,000 in nickels: $1,000 new dollars

This is your assumption - that the government would allow that. My position is that they would not. And even if they did, 20,000 nickels (20 to the dollar x 1000) would be a bitch to store. And a MEANINGFUL amount of coinage - that is, an amount that you could actually convert and live off of for a considerable period, well, like I said, you'd need a helluva vault.

I disagree.

It wouldn't be too big a bitch.




It would just be a 220 pound one.

::D
 
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Teeja

On the Beach
The metal in coins themselves does have value. (Intrinsic value, which is independent of face value). Paper money has no substantial intrinsic value to anyone unless it's a rare or collectible specimen. This is why some folks gather coins - they have both intrinsic and face value and possible future numismatic value (for the rare coins).

"Value" is generally determined by the buyer in a market. A pre-1982, 95% copper penny may seem to have have no value to you or I (other than the 1-cent face value).

However, "value" (as demonstrated by numerous eBay buyers who purchase old pennies) proves that there is indeed value to the penny over and above it's face-value - at least to those buyers. There is currently an active market for 95% copper pennies - people are currently PAYING close to 2x face value for them in bulk, since the melt-value of the copper contained therein is currently around 184% of face-value (1.84 cents). It is (whether we admit or not), a store of value, contained in a small, standard, government-verified unit (the 95% copper penny). Very small value per unit, of course, and perhaps an inefficient store of one's wealth (rather bulky) but to say it has no value in excess of it's face value is a mistake.

The market price for any commodity is whatever the market will bear. Even dirt is valuable to me, if I need it for my garden, or gravel rocks, if I need a load of it to pave my driveway. Each commodity, including the copper trade units we call pennies, has value to someone.

The market price of something is a factor of how much someone is willing to pay for it. Just because you or I don't value something greatly doesn't mean that all others think the same.

Granted, I don't think anyone is planning on "getting rich" by selling copper pennies on EBay or elsewhere, although there's actually several people who have great side-jobs by selling copper pennies on Ebay.
 
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Teeja

On the Beach
The vast overwhelming majority of monetary reforms in the world in the 20th century issued both new currency and new coins.

That may be true, however the next "monetary reform" we'll see in the U.S. is not going to be new paper "currency" or new "coins"... it will be a complete elimination of those "relics" in favor of a completely digital unit of exchange.

Coins and paper currency will no longer exist in the New World Order's long-sought-after "system".

Heck, we're almost there already.
 

miscount

Contributing Member
Can't go wrong saving nickels. gets fun checking dated and putting them away. Saving face value in inflationary times value of metals goes up so melt value increases. The best reason to save them for the war drive. Rifle barrels! Bag em up in 25lb shot bags holds $100 FRN's worth. They are heavy thou, put them in milk crates and hand truck em to the basement. Defiantly too heavy to move for a thief [average crack head]. My nickels will go to nieces and nephews someday. I just hope they save nickels also for a rainy day.
 
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Dennis Olson

Chief Curmudgeon
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Teeja, fix your font size please.


Also, you are conflating multiple points above, and the resultant confusing mish-mosh is meaningless. Let me help clarify your points:

1) The issue is SPECIFICALLY not about numismatic coins. Even referencing them I. Your post is a red herring

2) We are also not talking about coins whose metal has “melt value” equal to or exceeding its face value. (Specifically, gold and silver have such value as I’ve stated above: the silver eagle having a $1 face value but $25 melt value, and a gold eagle having a $50 face value but nearly $2000 melt value.)

Further, the mint has gone to great lengths to re-engineer the various coins’ alloy such that they do NOT have melt value. We are speaking of non-precious-metal coins without melt value. The limit of this discussion has been “standard grade” base-metal coins with no numismatic value.
 

Dennis Olson

Chief Curmudgeon
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Saving face value in inflationary times value of metals goes up so melt value increases.
Incorrect. From Wiki, a nickel is:

A nickel is a five-cent coin struck by the United States Mint. Composed of 75% copper and 25% nickel, the piece has been issued since 1866.
 

Teeja

On the Beach
Further, the mint has gone to great lengths to re-engineer the various coins’ alloy such that they do NOT have melt value. We are speaking of non-precious-metal coins without melt value. The limit of this discussion has been “standard grade” base-metal coins with no numismatic value.

Copper isn't considered a "precious metal", and so if "non-precious-metal coins" is the subject matter we're discussing here, then I assumed I was on topic.

But again, Dennis, I think your statement that our existing coins (alloy pennies, nickels, dimes, quarters) have "no melt value" is simply incorrect. But of course they do have melt value, it's just that their current melt value is currently below their face-value. As you know, that relationship can (and will likely) change with the passing of time (it happened with pre65 silver US coins, and it happened in recent years with the 95% copper pennies, and is close to happening with existing US nickels).

The government's own actions (re-engineering the various coins' alloy) prove that if metal is used for coins, and inflation continues (which is has, ever since 1913), then the melt value of those coins will eventually surpass the face-value of the coins.

I'm not sure why you continue to dismiss these facts and keep stating that there is no "melt value" for metal coins. It sure looks like a fact to me - I guess I just don't get where you're coming from. :confused:
 

Dennis Olson

Chief Curmudgeon
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But again, Dennis, I think your statement that our existing coins (alloy pennies, nickels, dimes, quarters) have "no melt value" is simply incorrect. But of course they do have melt value, it's just that their current melt value is currently below their face-value.
Correct. The reason the government keeps the coins’ metal value beneath face value is to keep people from pulling them out of circulation for melt value.

As you know, that relationship can (and will likely) change with the passing of time (it happened with pre65 silver US coins, and it happened in recent years with the 95% copper pennies
Again, you are both correct and being misleading at the same time. Pre-65 coins were 90% silver. Of course, you DO understand that silver is in fact a PM. Once the price of silver exceeded the face value of those coins, they quickly vanished from circulation. But as I clearly stated, this discussion is about coins with no melt value. (Just a moment; allow me to rephrase such that your INTJ’ness can understand: this discussion is about coins whose melt value is LESS THAN their stamped face value. Clearer now?)

I'm not sure why you continue to dismiss these facts and keep stating that there is no "melt value" for metal coins. It sure looks like a fact to me - I guess I just don't get where you're coming from.
I don’t dismiss them. I’m trying to keep this discussion within bounds. It is you who are deliberately ignoring the bounds.




And are you going to edit your post 122 or not?
 
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