DISASTER My experience with Hurricanes - Immediate Preparations/Supplies needed for Irene

[awakeaware]

I went through Hurricane Hugo in St. Croix Virgin Islands. The island was wiped out including my place and all I had. The night the hurricane came through, we had to go from one room to another as each room was being taken out. We ended up in a bathroom with a mattress over us.



I moved into some friend's house (they did not live on island full time) , which was one of the few that survived some what in tact on the East end of the Island. Electricity did not get to that part of the island until 9 months later (hurricane in Sept 18th 1989 - electricity restored in May 1990). I lived without electricity and I understand what you need to have to survive any duration without. But I was not in the densest city in the United States, which I can imagine being stuck in without utilities. My story is not what is important, but understanding I have survived and endured not having electricity or capabilities for months and I know what I am talking about, is what matters.


There are very important items you absolutely have to have for even the shortest amount of time without electricity.


I am asking all of those who are in the line of Hurricane Irene, especially in NYC to please stock up on these items immediately and take these steps immediately. It would be better for you to get out of the way and evacuate.


Store Water (as much as you can), fill up your bathtub for "working" water. Fill up every container you can.

batteries

flashlights

candles (many)

food - canned - anything that does not need cooking - peanut butter, cereal, beef jerky, canned vegs, crackers, cookies/sweets/hard candy, canned beans (lots of protein), nuts, dehydrated milk, tuna fish in oil not water (more calories, which will be needed), no diet or low calorie stuff, get all high calorie items,

manual can opener

ice in ice chest

freeze water in plastic bottles right now, so they are part of your ice chest and helps keep things cold and you have it to drink later

cook as much as you can in your freezer NOW - it will all go to waste and you will not be able to cook it, if there is no electricity or gas after the hurricane. Cook your meats and everything and refreeze it Today so it is in a frozen state at the beginning in a ice chest after the hurricane passes. This gives you a few days of having that food.

battery or wind up (better) short wave and regular radio

extra propane tanks for grills - or extra charcoal for grills (to be able cook)
generator (can not use it in an enclosed room) it has to be able to be outside (balcony), otherwise don't even think about it.

extra gas stored (if you have a generator or vehicle)

First aid kit. Have hydrogen peroxide, rubbing alcohol, band aids, etc.
get huge packages of "Wet Ones" (diaper wipes) so you do not have to use water for your hands or cleaning yourself.

antibacterial gel (get a lot) for your hands, instead of using water.

Chlorine - to use to sanitize water and anything else

vitamins (get multi ones) so you have the needed minerals and nutrients that you can not get from eating and keeping your body strong

medicines (diabetes, blood pressure, etc) that you need and can not live without. Call your doctor TODAY and ask for prescriptions and get them filled immediately!

(last thing) if you have time - put your photos in plastic bags and in a closet deep inside your place

pet food

cards/games/books - for having something to do for kids, if stuck inside for any duration





If you are in NYC, the scenarios are horrid of what can happen if it hits directly. NYC could literally be shut down for months if not some things (transportation) for years.


As crazy as it sounds, this could be much worst than Katrina and New Orleans flooding out. They were able to work above ground and all the water was above ground in New Orleans. Nothing in New Orleans is below ground, because it is already lower than sea level and digging in the ground after a bit, will bring up water. This is not the same in NYC. every thing is underground there. Water was pumped out of New Orleans from on top of the land, it would be much more difficult pumping water that has filled the underground.



The subway would flood with salt water and all electrical items would be ruined throughout it. This would not be a quick fix at all, NYC transportation could be shut down for months and months.



All the utilities are underground and are old already, them getting flooded could destroy them. I am talking about water lines, sewer lines, gas lines and electrical lines.



It is hard to imagine no water, sewage, electrical or gas in a high rise.

The biggest nightmare I can imagine is the hurricane hitting NYC directly, as everyone lives in high rises, everyone is dependent on public transportation, and it is the highest population in a small area anywhere in the United States. I simply can not imagine how horrible it would be, to be stuck there with absolutely no form of utilities at all.

Please remember Atlanta and the tornado that went through, windows were taken out during it, but even in weeks after glass/windows were falling out of the buildings and streets were closed off due to that. The streets of NYC could become death traps of glass shards raining down on people for weeks/months afterwards. Atlanta 3 years later has just gotten (Weston) all the glass replaced in that one building).

I could go on about this seriously being the absolute worst place for a hurricane to hit and all that could happen. I can not stress emphatically enough in saying anyone in New York City needs to evacuate now!

The above may seem extreme to you, but it is better to prepare for the worst and get much less, than not to be prepared at all. I am having a hard time believing that NYC could be crippled and shut down for any length of time, but I also had had a hard time imagining an oil leak would go on for months and destroy the Gulf of Mexico also. I am having a bad feeling about Hurricane Irene now. Please Please get out of New York City today if you can!

Edit to add - another prep:

copy all your bank statements, stocks, money market accounts today, put it somewhere safe - on a USB drive, hard paper copy to prove what you have. Also put all your important papers in plastic bags and somewhere deep within your place for safe keeping.

 

[Cascadians]

Awakeaware, thank you for this valuable post based on your direct experience.

This represents the heart of TB2K, good to see as the Hurricane comes closer.

 

[Hansa44]

That was quite the experience for you and after reading it, my suggestion would be to get out of the city NOW, if at all possible. Get as far away from it as you can. If you don't have a car, rent one. Sleep in it. You don't need a motel room.

But to be trapped in the city with no power, no water, no sanitation, no way to get groceries, no transportation, etc. is just about the worst scenario I can imagine in all this. Hey...if everything is ok, you just go back.

To be caught where there may be roving packs of those that believe you owe them something is rather frighteniing to say the least.

 

[awakeaware]

That was quite the experience for you and after reading it, my suggestion would be to get out of the city NOW, if at all possible. Get as far away from it as you can. If you don't have a car, rent one. Sleep in it. You don't need a motel room.

But to be trapped in the city with no power, no water, no sanitation, no way to get groceries, no transportation, etc. is just about the worst scenario I can imagine in all this. Hey...if everything is ok, you just go back.

To be caught where there may be roving packs of those that believe you owe them something is rather frighteniing to say the least.

Hansa - in St. Croix there were roving packs, we had to barricade ourselves in the torn apart place as well as possible as people had begun going house to house to loot. They had already looted all the stores and we in fact had a run in with some people. They had machetes, my friend had a gun - the gun won out and they backed down.

It was a crazy crazy time that was a mad max from thunderdome type situation for many days, due to no help coming in at all. When the U.S. military did come in, they rolled off the planes as it was landing and moving with their guns ready as they knew there was lawlessness throughout St. Croix.

It was a scary time and I can't even conceive being in NYC and the craziness that could happen, if St. Croix is any indication of how people become after a disaster.

 

[SmithJ]

If you are talking about NYC, it will be no different than a bad snowstorm with regard to power outages - NYC's situation is much different than New Orleans (there will be no flood- certainly not saltwater filling the subway) and it is much further north- weaker storm. The effect to NYC will be minimal.

 

[awakeaware]

If you are talking about NYC, it will be no different than a bad snowstorm with regard to power outages - NYC's situation is much different than New Orleans (there will be no flood- certainly not saltwater filling the subway) and it is much further north- weaker storm. The effect to NYC will be minimal.

Smith - sorry you are wrong - the storm surge that could go into NYC could be huge, due to the channels narrowing so the water rises. Battery park would be inundated with water and would flow down the subways, even the news is saying that this morning.

The infrastructure of NYC is old, look at the problems they have had, from steam pipes blowing etc. Water flowing in through one subway entrance at Battery Park if a high storm surge comes in... could fill the subway areas. Yes, all sounds like a terrible nightmare.

I found this article, that proves yes... those things can happen: seriously - the craziest images have gone through my mind and I am sure it is my imagination run wild....

But look at this article and then you will read those "crazy" images of what all can happen aren't so crazy after all. A major hurricane hitting NYC is the worst disaster as it would actually affect the world in many ways. Every single person in the world would be affected in some way, if NYC was paralyzed and Irene directly hit it. I hope they are trying to "Haarp" it away from NYC.

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/203...ty-storm-surge-subways-economy-evacuation.htm

Even if Irene reaches New York as a weakened Category 1 or Category 2 hurricane, it could still wreak considerable havoc because the city is simply not prepared to handle such storms the way Florida or the Gulf Coast are. In a worst-case scenario, here are the top five threats New York City would face from a major hurricane.

1. Storm surge

The single biggest effect New York City would see from a major hurricane is the storm surge. This is the term for water pushed toward the shore by high winds, and it can rise many feet above sea level and inundate entire neighborhoods. In the New England Hurricane of 1938, the storm surge from the East River flooded three blocks of Manhattan, even though the center of the hurricane was many miles away, pummeling eastern Long Island. The Norfolk and Long Island Hurricane of 1821 made landfall in the city itself -- in Jamaica Bay, Queens -- and the 13-foot surge inundated more than a mile of Manhattan from Battery Park to Canal Street.

Storm surges can be catastrophic even in the best-protected cities -- just look at New Orleans when the levees failed. While a Katrina-like scenario is unlikely in New York, a smaller surge could still be deadly because of the structure of New York's waterways. New York Harbor is narrow, which means that water rushing northward from the storm surge, with nowhere to go, would build up very high -- as high as 30 feet, or the third floor of some buildings, according to past warnings from the city's Office of Emergency Management. According to an evacuation map posted on the city's official Web site, aside from Lower Manhattan, many low-lying parts of the other four boroughs would also be at risk, including LaGuardia Airport and J.F.K. Airport, which are located right by Flushing Bay and Jamaica Bay, respectively. All of this would be compounded if the storm surge happened at high tide.

2. Debris everywhere

Many of the effects of high winds on infrastructure are obvious: downed trees and other debris cluttering the streets, downed power lines cutting electricity to buildings and live wires creating hazards for pedestrians. But in a city like New York, hurricane-force winds could break windows en masse, "especially in the taller buildings that would bear the brunt of powerful gusts that occur at higher elevations," The Wall Street Journal reported in 2010. In a worst-case scenario, this could become a scene out of an apocalyptic movie, in which "the canyons of Manhattan could magnify the winds and would be a deadly place for anyone caught beneath the raining glass." And that's not even considering the billions of dollars it would take to clean up the city afterward, and the long-term economic impact of those costs.

3. Goodbye, subways

Every New Yorker has seen how messy subway stations get in heavy rain: dirty puddles form on the platforms, water streams from openings in the ceiling onto the tracks, and trains are frequently delayed. Now imagine even heavier rain, plus a storm surge that sent water from the rivers and harbors crashing into the stations through the stairwells, ceilings and tunnels. It would not even take a worst-case scenario to bring the entire New York City public transportation system to a standstill. In the short term, this would eliminate any chance of last-minute evacuations; in the long term, it could extend the economic damage of a hurricane even beyond when office buildings reopened. If the subways were flooded with salt water rather than just rainwater, the salt "would corrode the switches and cripple the system for months or years, and disable much of the communications infrastructure in Lower Manhattan," The Wall Street Journal reported in 2010 based on an interview with Nicholas Coch, a coastal geology professor at Queens College.

4. Economic paralysis

The area of New York most likely to be affected by a storm surge is also the area where the bulk of the city's economic activity is centered. The Financial District, for example, could be inundated by storm surges from the East River, the Hudson River and the New York Harbor alike. The 1938 hurricane flooded all of Lower Manhattan south of Canal Street, but the damage was limited by the fact that the area was not highly built up at the time. Today, not only is it full of people who could be killed by a storm surge, but it is also the epicenter of the city, national, and international financial systems.

Residents don't necessarily understand "how many days and weeks after a hurricane that their lives will be completely changed," Scott Mandia, a physical sciences professor at Suffolk County Community College on Long Island, told National Geographic News in 2006. "People who live away from the water think a hurricane will mean one day away from work, then back to normal. There will be an economic shutdown for a few weeks, if not a month." He was referring to the impact of a hurricane on Long Island, but the impact on the Financial District would be even worse. A big storm surge could paralyze that part of the city for weeks, depending on how severe the flooding was, how quickly the water receded and how much infrastructural damage it left behind, and the consequences of that would be far greater than just lost wages.

5. Difficult to evacuate

If New York remains in Hurricane Irene's path, officials would likely order the evacuation of the most vulnerable areas -- that is, those most likely to be hit by the storm surge. But evacuations are difficult to carry out under the best of circumstances, both because many people are reluctant to leave their homes and because of traffic gridlock as thousands of people try to get out at once, and New York is far from the best of circumstances. The first problem is the sheer size of its population: evacuating more than eight million people on short notice is an impossible task. The second is the location: on an island, escape routes are inherently limited. Only so many vehicles can cross Manhattan's bridges and tunnels at once, and in the event of a hurricane, one thing New York will not have is time.

Hurricanes can change course very quickly, and even a slight shift can threaten areas far from the projected path. Accurate predictions become even more difficult once a hurricane moves north of the Carolinas, according to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, because the storms begin to move faster and wind patterns can easily redirect them. The New England Hurricane of 1938 struck with just four hours' notice, and hundreds of people were killed. The NOAA Web site notes that "the overwhelming majority" of lethal hurricanes "occurred before hurricane prediction reached levels necessary to adequately serve the public." Of course, meteorologists' predictive capabilities have increased tremendously over the years, but in the Northeast, the problem remains serious because of the combination of less reliable predictions and more time required for a successful evacuation.

In other words, in order to evacuate New York's extremely dense population through a limited bridge and tunnel system, the evacuation would have to begin significantly earlier than it would in the Southeast or along the Gulf Coast, where populations are less dense and escape routes more plentiful. But because of the difficulties in predicting when and where hurricanes will strike in the Northeast, New York most likely would not be able to begin an evacuation until later than the Southeast or Gulf Coast could. Even worse, because winds usually pick up well before the center of a hurricane hits, time to evacuate could be even more severely limited.

 

[Satanta]

This is good info. Wish it were here sooner but such is life.

 

[jed turtle]

considering how many of NY city's residents are atheists and liberal scoffers, i wonder if they even have a prayer, much less a clue.

one bright spot: the UN may have to find another home...

 

[Jazzdad]

Smith - sorry you are wrong - the storm surge that could go into NYC could be huge, due to the channels narrowing so the water rises. Battery park would be inundated with water and would flow down the subways, even the news is saying that this morning.

...

The single biggest effect New York City would see from a major hurricane is the storm surge. This is the term for water pushed toward the shore by high winds, and it can rise many feet above sea level and inundate entire neighborhoods. In the New England Hurricane of 1938, the storm surge from the East River flooded three blocks of Manhattan, even though the center of the hurricane was many miles away, pummeling eastern Long Island. The Norfolk and Long Island Hurricane of 1821 made landfall in the city itself -- in Jamaica Bay, Queens -- and the 13-foot surge inundated more than a mile of Manhattan from Battery Park to Canal Street.

In Providence, RI there is a hotel in downtown with a plaque on the wall about ten feet over your head indicating the height of the water level that the storm surge reached in the 1938 hurricane. Narragansett Bay is wide at the entrance and narrow at the north where the city is. Waters were pushed up the bay and flowed into the city. It is a similar phenomena to the Bay of Fundee tides in Nova Scotia. NY harbor has similar characteristics should the surge come directly up the harbor. The 1938 storm was a Cat 4 or 5 when it hit New England and this storm will be less. However the threat to NYC should the storm pass west of the city should not be overlooked.

AA that was a very sobering account of your experiences in St. Croix.

 

[Captain D]

I love to read accounts of people's disaster experiences to learn from them. The tips listed above are so basic and commensense, yet so many people don't think far enough ahead to do these simple measures. I like to think that I wouldn't have to make that last-minute dash to the Home Depot or supermarket if a disaster was imminent. My own brother's family had to survive a week without electricity during a really bad storm. Had it been I, I know I would have invested several hundred in a generator from Sam's afterward because they could have at least been able to pump water now and then. I never saw them make any changes after that storm to improve their situation the next time. And there WERE next times, with no water, no communications, etc, etc. They survived it, so I guess they didn't consider it bad enough to warrant shelling out the money to improve their situation. At least they didn't whine, moan or complain, and they got by without any outside help. Their outlook is just different than mine.

 

[oyster_777]

Awakeaware, thank you for this valuable post based on your direct experience.

This represents the heart of TB2K, good to see as the Hurricane comes closer.

X100

 

[minkykat]

Thank you, AwakeAware! This is invaluable not just for the east coasters but for all TBKers in all regions regardless of what disaster they may face.

 

[almost ready]

Interesting. Probably won't happen, but very interesting nonetheless. Like insurance, you don't buy it cause you think the house is going to burn down next week. It's just the prudent thing to do. Not a good time to be nonchalant and/or macho.

Prudent. A word that you rarely hear these days. Suspect it will be making a comeback.

Wow! Didn't know that about Providence, nor Manhattan.

 

[dawnbringr]

"The 1938 storm was a Cat 4 or 5 when it hit New England and this storm will be less."

I grew up in SE CT about 5 miles rom the shore... IIRC, the top winds inn the 38 hurricane were around 120 mph,, which in today's terms would
be a cat 3.... but the wind is only one component, what does the bigger damage is storm surge and how bad the flooding is.

My parents lived thru that episode as teenagers, and the stories they tell are frightening to say the least. Remember, in 1938 the population
was a fraction of what the area holds today. I was still in new england in 1991 when cat 1 "Bob" went through. Figured I'd go back to my
parent's house to see it... and even that weak cat 1 did a lot of damage.

My mother still lives in that house. She'll be going to my brothers place about 8 miles further inland for the storm. If i hear any good stories
I'll post them....

 

[almost ready]

awakeandaware, your story is compelling.

Now I'm wondering how much flooding such a large 'cane will bring. Even if it lessens. That's a lot of rain on the way -- and if it stalls, OH BOY!

 

[SarahLynn]

Excellent advice awakeaware, thank you very much. You mentioned several things I had not considered. I've re-read your info several times, and have now discussed your list with my 16 yr old son (he and I are alone here and just survived the passing of three tornadoes this past week over Southern Ontario, two of them not ten miles from our home). We don't get hurricanes here but our winter blizzards are doozies, and tornadoes have been a real problem this year.

I've made a copy of your excellent list of items to have and preps to make and will send to several friends in North Carolina in the path of this hurricane. Very grateful for the info. Thank you again. SarahLynn

 

[etc]

Evacuation may not be possible or practical for many.

many in NYC have no cars. It's not like you pack your stuff in a 4WD and drive off into the sunset.

You leave and abandon your place to looting? And what if all your stuff is there? Many people should not bug out but stay put. Many during Katrina had to stay. So it depends.

 

[awakeaware]

Thank you, everyone for receiving this information so readily. Through our own experiences and knowledge we can hopefully help others.

With your important papers/photos - after putting them in plastic bags - if you have a spare metal container or a plastic storage (the large ones) container, put the plastic bags in that and then duct tape the lid - then put that deep inside your place.

 

[awakeaware]

Evacuation may not be possible or practical for many.

many in NYC have no cars. It's not like you pack your stuff in a 4WD and drive off into the sunset.

You leave and abandon your place to looting? And what if all your stuff is there? Many people should not bug out but stay put. Many during Katrina had to stay. So it depends.

Oh my gosh - you think it is better to stay than leave? What is stuff? so what if it is taken. Doesn't your life and well being have more meaning? Is it better to stay and suffer possibly with no utilities sewage etc than to leave without much? Stuff has no meaning! I lost all my "stuff" with Hugo, so have people in New Orleans, Japan etc. Ask them - would they have preferred to have evacuated beforehand and had been safe then to stay with the misery after? You lose your "stuff" anyway. NYC is not a place to be stuck in without any transportation, utilities or communication, in fact it may be one of the worst places in the world to be in if it was totally crippled.

 

[awakeaware]

Evacuation may not be possible or practical for many.

many in NYC have no cars. It's not like you pack your stuff in a 4WD and drive off into the sunset.

You leave and abandon your place to looting? And what if all your stuff is there? Many people should not bug out but stay put. Many during Katrina had to stay. So it depends.

Etc. - I have to say, what you posted really got to me. I want you to understand. When you are stuck some where and there is no escape or way out and everything is broken down, it is the scariest time you can imagine. St. Croix - a small island in the Caribbean with 55000 people at the time of Hugo went into total anarchy.

I found an article about it, due to what you posted - so people understand the full extent of how things break down after a disaster. We know that from Katrina. But imagine NYC - it is inconceivable to imagine being stuck there with millions of people in a complete break down and disaster occurring.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/hurricane/archives/hugo89a.htm

Portions:

likened by some St. Croix residents to a nuclear holocaust, produced a sort of "day after" effect marked by a major breakdown of law and order.

(MY note - I believe it was more than 3 days - as the 3rd day is when we barricaded ourselves in the house - I remember it taking a week, we heard the military took so long due having to be ready of what they thought would be actual combat on the island) Three days of near-anarchy followed Hugo's terrible passage during the night of Sept. 17-18 and prompted President Bush to dispatch about 1,100 Army military police and 170 federal law-enforcement officers, including 75 FBI agents and a "special operations group" of the U.S. Marshals Service.

Their deployment Sept. 21 quickly quelled what the Federal Bureau of Investigation called in court documents here "pervasive looting" on St. Croix, the worst hit of the territory's three main islands.

As many as 90 percent of the island's buildings were damaged, communications and transportation were knocked out and, for a time, St. Croix's 55,000 people were simply cut off from the world.

Maj. Gen. Robert Moorehead, commander of the Virgin Islands National Guard, said of the scene on the morning after the storm, "In all my military experience, I had never seen anything like it. It appeared to me that we had been the victims of a nuclear blast."

The plunder started on the day after the Sunday night storm, as panicky islanders sought to stock up on food. It quickly degenerated into a free-for-all grab of all sorts of consumer goods that some witnesses likened to a "feeding frenzy." With no police or National Guard members attempting to restore order, many looters stole merchandise and trashed stores.

Although personal violence was rare, some occurred. An American dentist was struck on the head with a 2-by-4 while trying to photograph looting, and one alleged looter was fatally shot by a store owner in Frederiksted. The best-organized merchants proved to be Palestinian immigrants who took up arms and manned rooftops and barricades to defend their stores. (MY note - I remember that so well - no one touched their grocery store - mid island, there were many of them, standing on the roof top with lots of guns)

 

[Wise Owl]

I have a question as to freezing plastic bottles. We already have a couple dozen of those that are filled with water for general purpose cause the power goes out up here a LOT. If I drain some of the water off, can those be frozen? They are the harder plastic types. They won't explode will they if I leave a couple inches for expansion?

As to more water, we have a dug well that only needs a bucket and rope to get water from. Just lift the lid on it.

If I can use some of those bottles already filled it would save me a lot of water sealing up plastic bags with water...

 

[Cascadians]

Awareaware, can I have your permission to copy your 1st post to a Newfie forum I'm on? It is not a prep forum and they need the info.

 

[awakeaware]

I have a question as to freezing plastic bottles. We already have a couple dozen of those that are filled with water for general purpose cause the power goes out up here a LOT. If I drain some of the water off, can those be frozen? They are the harder plastic types. They won't explode will they if I leave a couple inches for expansion?

As to more water, we have a dug well that only needs a bucket and rope to get water from. Just lift the lid on it.

If I can use some of those bottles already filled it would save me a lot of water sealing up plastic bags with water...

You always have to leave room for expansion with water freezing. So use the bottles you have now.

Awareaware, can I have your permission to copy your 1st post to a Newfie forum I'm on? It is not a prep forum and they need the info.

Yes you may, and if you would like - you can link it from my blog and reproduce it, compared to the forum, I have added more things there. I believe any information that can help others and may not have been thought of, should be given to all who could benefit from it. So anyone can reproduce it all they want.

http://sherriequestioningall.blogspot.com/2011/08/my-experience-with-hurricanes-immediate.html

 

[minkykat]

Something else I saw on another forum from a Katrina survivor; if it looks like you will get to leave or are being made to leave your place, pack up all items in your deep freeze and fridge into big garbage bags. Secure the tops and push back inside. Secure the doors with duct tape. When the water/wind comes in and starts knocking things over, the doors on the units will hopefully stay shut, the contents are secured in the bag.

Most important: the power will be out. The food inside will start to go bad. Lucky you, it's already bagged up. No food spilled out everywhere and rotting all over the place. When you come back, you can just pick up the stinking bags and toss.

 

[Wise Owl]

Thanks AA, I had just talked to my neighbors and they have used the juice bottles for freezing so I adjusted the water level and filled up what space was available in the deep freezer. The one in the fridge will be emptied into the chest freezer if the power goes out and the ice I am making in that one will go into the cooler for the perishable stuff in the fridge.

We also have a bunch of cardboard that I plan on putting around the outside of the chest freezer "if" the power goes out to help keep it cold. If I had some of that foamboard, I would use that also. I don't have a huge freezer so hopefully if I lose my stuff it won't be too bad.
Most of our preps are not in freezer or fridge. And we are ok with those things.

Waiting till Sunday to see about putting things away outside. Not much out there to do. Going now to pick veggies that are ripe enough. I just pray I don't loose my garden. It's just starting to really produce good.

 

[Gercarson]

Oh my gosh - you think it is better to stay than leave? What is stuff? so what if it is taken. Doesn't your life and well being have more meaning? Is it better to stay and suffer possibly with no utilities sewage etc than to leave without much? Stuff has no meaning! I lost all my "stuff" with Hugo, so have people in New Orleans, Japan etc. Ask them - would they have preferred to have evacuated beforehand and had been safe then to stay with the misery after? You lose your "stuff" anyway. NYC is not a place to be stuck in without any transportation, utilities or communication, in fact it may be one of the worst places in the world to be in if it was totally crippled.

I went through Andrew in Miami and lost a lot of "stuff" - some of it with very sentimental and intrinsic value. I was just so blessed to have gotten through the hell of a storm that it didn't really matter - I was alive. We did have wonderful police protection in my area, unlike other areas where the looting did take place. I also went through old sissy Ivan here, but all it did was send a couple trees through the roof and clear my land of all the rest. We make our choices and live by them - I chose Florida - it's always, always a good idea to evacuate if possible.

 

[awakeaware]

Wise Owl - awesome planning and since you are not in NYC, I would stay where I was too in Delaware (assuming that is where you are at - due to Da). It is in NYC that I just have a horrible horrible feeling about. I didn't have that horrible feeling upon going to bed last night, but I awoke this morning at 5am - somewhat freaked out and very concerned about NYC.

Since you are in the woods and have a way to cook if no electricity (fire pit, etc) it is not as important to get your items cooked and in a cooler, as it is for those who can not cook (high rises, etc) without electricity or gas.

On the weather channel right now - the weather man was in Battery Park and said that come Sunday night the water would be over his head at where he was standing. They are having mandatory evacuation of about 300000 people in the lower areas of Manhattan.

But I can't stress to people, Stuff is not worth anything to stay behind for, if people can they should evacuate ASAP out of NYC. (edited - due to Gercarson's post above - it shows they too have been in a horrible hurricane and lost "stuff" - stuff has no value at all in survival or dangerous situations) Thank you Gercarson!

I am not an expert on hurricanes, I am simply someone who has been through a really bad one, as others in New Orleans had been. I also went down to N.O twice with the Red Cross after. I went the day after to Mississippi and handled a shelter and heard horror stories from them and then again over the Christmas holidays to help feed the people there.

The Red Cross called me yesterday and wanted to pre- position me up North and I would have to had gone there today. But due to various circumstances I am not going at this time. Honestly, I don't want to go either, I don't want to be in the area if Irene hits head on, due to my own past experiences and knowing how crazy it was in N.O too.

 

[Grammytomany]

Get lots of plastic bags and a nice big bucket for those "times when you need it". Put it outside. Tie them up. Until disposal is possible. I save mine just for that purpose. Otherwise, I have all that you have on your list. I am cooking for lots and lots of people who will probably not have thought of it. Nutrition without cooking from scratch as that part is already done. Just needs warming up on the grill. God bless everyone. May GOD keep you all safe and well.

 

[Wise Owl]

Wise Owl - awesome planning and since you are not in NYC, I would stay where I was too in Delaware (assuming that is where you are at - due to Da). It is in NYC that I just have a horrible horrible feeling about. I didn't have that horrible feeling upon going to bed last night, but I awoke this morning at 5am - somewhat freaked out and very concerned about NYC.

Since you are in the woods and have a way to cook if no electricity (fire pit, etc) it is not as important to get your items cooked and in a cooler, as it is for those who can not cook (high rises, etc) without electricity or gas.

.

We live in the western mountains of Maine at about 1500 ft elevation. But yes, we live in the middle of the woods. Too many trees around us and if the wind comes higher than 45 mph, those old poplars WILL come down along with the bigger white birch and the taller spruce trees. The spruce trees act like a sail and catch the wind and down they come.
I can sit here looking out our front window and count at least 10 that we are worried about. We have a pretty strong cabin but it's got windows upon windows to let the light in. Those are getting taped up Sunday with duct tape just in case a flying branch comes into one.

As to NYC and CT. We have a lot of my hubbie's family living down there and we are very concerned about them. He was born in Brooklyn and still has relatives there plus some in CT. Also out on the Island. cousins and such.

Been praying for all of us east coasters.

 

[Wise Owl]

Granny, we bought a porta potty a few years ago at a yard sale for $10! It works great. If need be, there are outhouses in a couple of close neighbors back yards, lol.......that is if they don't get blown down.....

As to cooking. We have a Coleman dual purpose, two propane turkey cookers, a Weber charcoal grill (the big kettle one) and my dh's Firefly backpacking dual fuel stove. I am NOT worried about cooking.

Like I said, my biggest concern is my garden and I can't do much about that except pray that God spares us and it from the wind. Rain, not so much. Wind yes.

 

[LMonty911]

dont forget the "ax in the attic" if you are anywhere storm surge might hit. batteries. many, many batteries. headlamps. chocolate-a necessity for any stressful emergency, especially since valium doesn't grow on trees.

activity books, crayons and nonelectric games for the kiddies- a bored whiny kid is no fun, it does help a bit to have diversions squirreled away for times like this. birth control-hey, its stressful and boring. camera to take pics of damage and any vendors gouging (like 5$ a bag of ice-it happens) and any other events you need to document, a dollar store cheapie is good insurance. a roll of quarters, and lots of singles and small denomination bills. if ATMs are down it may be the only way to buy things for a week or more.

vices? cigs, soda, beer etc for a week or more-maybe extra to share or tip cleanup help with. energy drinks like propel or gatorade etc that actually replace electrolytes in case you have hours of cleanup to do in the heat afterwards-seems its always in the 90s at least for days after this stuff passes. do i need to mention toilet paper? if you live surrounded by DGIs, that will win many brownie points in the neighborhood if stores are closed for awhile. paper towels napkins-oh and a couple of packs of baby wipes, even for us old farts- priceless if the water is out, for premeal handwashing, post toileting duties, even just a quick TPA. do all your laundry ASAP, roll and put at least one outfit, one sleeping gear and several sets of underwear for each family member in plastic (space bags are great) or doubled garbage bags and put high up. get your BOBs off the closet floor and up high, maybe even in plastic bags too -this stuff is a decent precaution even a couple of miles inland from the coast-especially at sea level, like long island is.

the outdoor solar path lights might be on sale at WM and DG and such- even a few give you light indoor at night in the bathroom kitchen etc.-at least enough to help prevent tripping on things. i need to look for some of those myself soon, i keep meaning to get some but always forget. pet supplies for a couple of weeks. car cell phone chargers. take pics of the inside of frig, freezers, house car and grounds before the storm hits in case you need to make a claim after-shows condition and implies value of whats lost.

hand crank can openers.

and OPSEC! and plan,come up with contingencies, be prepared in your head by running thru several possible scenarios and possible mitigation interventions for them helps immensely when crunch time happens. makes it so much easier to come up with safe and reasonable answers when it matters. that's huge when you have unprepared folks who cant conceive of such things- IME they are far more prone to paralyzing shock when stuff does happen. your quick response and ideas because you are mentally prepared may just help prevent panic in not just yourself, but others around you if they are prone to the normalcy bias, and help prevent PTSD in the folks prone to it if things get really bad... you can be a cool headed leader, not just a victim.

 

[Barry Natchitoches]

Oh my gosh - you think it is better to stay than leave? What is stuff? so what if it is taken. Doesn't your life and well being have more meaning? Is it better to stay and suffer possibly with no utilities sewage etc than to leave without much? Stuff has no meaning! I lost all my "stuff" with Hugo, so have people in New Orleans, Japan etc. Ask them - would they have preferred to have evacuated beforehand and had been safe then to stay with the misery after? You lose your "stuff" anyway. NYC is not a place to be stuck in without any transportation, utilities or communication, in fact it may be one of the worst places in the world to be in if it was totally crippled.

Awakeaware,


Thank you for asking. I am born and raised in New Orleans, my entire family (other than myself) lived in the New Orleans area during Katrina and still live there. I have lived through several hurricanes, and -- as a member of the Red Cross Disaster Service volunteer corps -- worked several hurricanes including Hurricane Andrew in 1992. As a boy, I assisted my father in delivering free ice to the folks on the Mississippi gulf coast after Cat 5 Hurricane Camille destroyed the place.


So I figure I know a bit about hurricanes in New Orleans and the gulf coast.


You asked the question (and I paraphrase here) "Would I prefer to evacuate ahead of time and be safe, or stay and have to live with the misery afterwards?"


Now that you know my background, let me submit to you my answer to your question:


In the exact way you phrase the question -- with its built-in assumption that you know exactly where the hurricane is headed ahead of time -- the question would appear to be a no brainer. I mean, who really wants to be in a city that is 80% underwater and with lawlessness ruling the streets of the other 20%?


But there is a problem in how you worded your question.


You see, implicit in your question is the ASSUMPTION that you know ahead of time what the hurricane is going to do.


Life is not that simple.


And the thing is -- just as there is serious risk associated with staying in New Orleans (or NYC) with a major hurricane headed in their direction, there is ALSO a serious risk for some people that is associated with LEAVING New Orleans (or NYC). This risk exists regardless of whether or not the hurricane actually hits the city in the end..


Let me give you two examples of what I am talking about, to help you understand:


1, Elderly folks and those with physical ailments who have difficulty traveling..

Not every person with serious health problems is in a hospital or nursing home at the time the hurricane starts heading their way. Lots of folks are at home, trying to live their lives as best they can.

One of the things that it is not politically correct to discuss when it comes to disaster preparedness and response is that people can -- and occasionally do -- DIE as a result of disaster evacuations. The media actually covered the death of a person who was evacuating from a nursing home during the evacuation in the Houston area when Hurricane Rita was headed in the general direction of Houston in 2005. But the media usually doesn't pick up on these stories. They just happen, out of our eyesight. But they happen nonetheless.

Fortunately the majority of infirmed individuals will not actually die as a result of the evacuation, but just be majorly inconvenienced as a result of it.

But when you combine the enormous difficulty of moving folks with some health problems out of the city with the fact that the hurricane might skip town alltogether, or at least not be so bad if it does hit -- andall of a sudden, the question you asked isn't such a no-brainer, is it?



I'll get back to this, but let me present Scenerio #2 before I do:


2, Alot of people in both New Orleans AND NYC are poor, and do not have the financial resources to take a trip out of town -- especially at the end of the month, which is when Katrina hit and Irene is going to hit.

And before you automatically think Welfare Queen, please note that a large number of these really poor people are WORKING POOR -- people who are trying to support their families on $7 to $10 an hour, oftentimes without any help from the government.

At any rate, many people find that they can barely pay the bills they must pay each month. Or maybe they can't even do that. It costs money to evacuate, unless the government comes in and relocates massive numbers of people at their expense. That has been done only one time in the history of disaster response in the United States -- in 2008 (three years after Katrina), when Hurricane Gustav was headed towards New Orleans.


If you are forced between spending the few dollars you have evacuating for a hurricane that might -- or might not -- be bad in your town, or paying your rent -- which you KNOW FOR SURE must be paid or else you face eviction -- what do you do? If you have ever been poor, you know that it is no longer a no-brainer question (though I notice that folks who have not ever been TRULY poor can't comprehend the problem, even when it is presented with this degree of stark reality.)


Above, I referened the death that occured along the highway as Houston was being evacuated for Hurricane Rita in 2005. The coroner officially decreed that it was a direct result of the evacuation process, and not just a result of the elderly person's underlying medical condition.

Part of the reason that I bring that particular death up is because it is one of the few times that the media has ever bothered to tell us about the deaths that take place during hurricane evacuations.

But part of the reason I bring it up is because that person's death so vividly illustrates the dilemma that sick or elderly people and their families face when a hurricane is headed in their direction.

You see, Rita never ended up hitting Houston!

That's right -- at the time that the nursing home began moving that person, it looked like Rita MIGHT, maybe be headed towards Houston.

But Rita took an easterly turn, and hit southwestern Louisiana instead. Texas was hardly scathed by her. If that person had never been moved in the first place, they might have had more months or even years of meaningful life before they finally died.


And what about the one -- and only -- time that the government has organized and pulled off a widespread evacuation of a major city?

That would be 2008, when Hurricane Gustav entered the Gulf and headed on a trajectory that the computer simulations said was going to send it right into New Orleans. Just three years after Katrina -- with all of the regrets that came with that fiasco -- FEMA, working in partnership with Louisiana officials and the officials in other states (including Tennessee, where I was still a Red Cross Disaster Service volunteer at the time) -- decided to spearhead a mass evacuation of the largest part of the city's residents.


Many were bused to shelters inside of Louisiana. But there were no where near enough shelters to hold all of the New Orleans residents.


So 10 trainloads of people were moved -- via Amtrak -- to shelters along the railroad path. We took several entire trainloads of evacuees here in Memphis, including the first train load that left -- the one that included all of the sick, elderly, and infirmed, and thier immediate families.


I can tell you in detail what happened in Memphis, because I was a part of the crew that took care of the New Orleans evacuees that came to our city.


It took 8 hours for them to get up here, and by the time they got up here, they were hot, tired, and stressed out. The first trainload was the easiest for us to process because they only had physical health problems. Later trainloads carried folks who were angry because they only found out AFTER they got to Memphis that they would not get an automatic $2000 debit card, like they did after Katrina. They would be given free shelter housing, food, and basic medical care -- but no cash.


We had ten huge shelters set up in this city for them. Fortunately we were able to segregate the physically infirmed into one facility, the Ed Rice Senior Center. That center was orderly, kept clean, and safe.


But the other shelters had a mix of different gang bangers, unruly snot nosed kids, and Welfare Queens who were angry because they weren't being paid $2000 bux to participate in this evacuation. Mixed into this group of undesirables was a LARGE NUMBER OF GOOD, HARD WORKING, HONORABLE PEOPLE who just didn't have the money to leave the city on their own.

In this latter group were good people like you and me, and others who hang around TB2K. For all I know, maybe somebody on this forum today WAS in one of the Memphis shelters during Gustav.

The gang bangers and the Welfare Queens made the lives of the honorable evacuees a living hell. They exhorted food, donated clothing, and money from the innocent children of the honorable evacuees through intimidation or outright violence.

The snot nosed kids came up here with colds and other communicable diseases and spread it around to those who were healthy when they first boarded the trains headed for Memphis. (I got really sick about the time that they were being sent back to New Orleans, a direct result of having to work with the evacuees. Worse yet, I passed that illness on to my wife and then four year old daughter.).


So you had good people who put their families in harms way -- both by the violence and intimidation from the gang bangers and also as a result of the disease that was being spread through the shelter -- because they participated in the mass evacuation of New Orleans in 2008.


And you and I -- the taxpayers of this country -- paid the HUGE bill that was associated with that mass evacuation.


And what did Hurricane Gustav do in the end?


Took a sudden easterly swing AWAY from the trajectory that the computers said the hurricane would take.


Hurricane Gustav missed the city of New Orleans!


Just like every other hurricane that headed towards New Orleans between Hurricane Betsy in 1965 and up until Katrina in 2005.


Gustav never even hit New Orleans! But look how many innocent families were terrorized by the gang bangers in the shelters. Look how many people caught bad colds, diarrheal problems, flu and other communicable diseases when they were in close proximity with the snot-nosed kids.


I'm not trying to say that evacuating is a bad thing to do.


And I am definitely NOT trying to tell the folks in New York City (or other cities on the path of Irene) that they should not evacuate.


What I AM trying to do is to point out that evacution brings its own set of problems, and one should not make that decision blindly.


My sisters and their families evacuated for Katrina. Even though both sisters begged my parents to leave with them (as did I, from up here in Memphis), they did not choose to do so. My dad had lived through the depression, 12 years in military war zones (WW2 and Korea), and had lived through every hurricane that actually DID hit the city of New Orleans. He felt sure that he could handle things better if he stayed, than if he subjected himself to the problems associated with mass evacuation.


And so he stayed. He was there when Katrina hit.


And to this day, he still feels like he was better off for having made that decision.


And likewise, my sisters and their husbands both are equally convinced that they made the best decision they could as well when they high-tailed it on out of New Orleans before Katrina made landfall.


Truth is -- they are BOTH right.


What is best for one person (or family) is not necessarily the best for another person (or family).

 

[Tygerkittn]

Now I'm in the mood to watch "Escape from New York" again. It seems appropriate!
As for "stuff", I read once where someone asked a holocaust survivor why more Jews didn't leave Germany, and he said "Most Jewish families owned a piano, and it's very hard to leave when you own a piano."
I thought that was so sad.

 

[awakeaware]

Barry, I am originally from N.O too - grew up there, until moving down to the islands when I was a teenager.

I know my friends that evacuated were very glad they did. Yes they had to sit in traffic for 10 hours to get to Baton Rouge, but their house was under water after Katrina went through so it was a good thing and they were happy they did.

Everyone has different circumstances and I know those who are poor and have no transportation will be staying in NYC. just as those in N.O at the Superdome and Convention center.

Evacuating has a whole different set of difficulties.

I am simply putting out information I know and everyone will do as they will. If what information I have put out, along with others as L Monty will help people prepare and get through it staying in place - awesome!

But I also replied to the other post I did, due to not leaving due to "stuff". If a hurricane is barreling down where you live and things could get real dicey afterwards, the last reason to ever decided to stay is due to "stuff". Just as Tygerkittn wrote above - Jewish families stayed and ultimately died due to a piano, which is just "stuff". So deciding to stay for "stuff" is putting value on things of which there is no value compared to life.

I appreciate your wonderful post and everyone will make their own decisions on what they will do. That is why there are the what to do preparations that could help and not "just get out".

I wonder if we have crossed paths with the Red Cross in the past?

 

[Barry Natchitoches]

I have a question as to freezing plastic bottles. We already have a couple dozen of those that are filled with water for general purpose cause the power goes out up here a LOT. If I drain some of the water off, can those be frozen? They are the harder plastic types. They won't explode will they if I leave a couple inches for expansion?

As to more water, we have a dug well that only needs a bucket and rope to get water from. Just lift the lid on it.

If I can use some of those bottles already filled it would save me a lot of water sealing up plastic bags with water...

YES you can use those bottles. Just drain a little bit out of them, as you said, and stuff them in to your freezer. They will help keep your food frozen, longer.

Food will usually last about 48 hours in a freezer that is not opened for any reason until the 48 hours is up, IF the freezer is FULL of frozen stuff before the power went off. That is why it is imperitive that you get those bottles in the freezer ASAP, if you have not already done so.


After 48 hours, if the power is not back on, then take the food out and put it on your barbecue grill and cook it up. Maybe invite neighbors in to share the feast. Because you won't be able to keep it any longer, and might as well cook it and enjoy it.

 

[Barry Natchitoches]

Awakeaware,


I appreciate your posts too.


I just didn't want all the reasons why one would want to evacuate be the only side of the issue presented here.


I am sure that you join me in prayer that each TB2K family faced with that decision will make the BEST decision for their own family, in their unique circumstance.


As for running into you via Red Cross -- maybe so. I was active with RC Disaster Services for over 20 years, and met a lot of Red Cross volunteers, paid staffers, and members of the general public during those two decades.


It is a part of my life that I wouldn't trade for anything in the world.


But now, with the government coming in and taking over disaster response (and usually failing miserably at it), the sincere efforts of the Red Cross volunteers were getting trampled by government bureaucracy run amuck.


The mass evacuation of the New Orleans folks by FEMA was the last straw for me. It was mass chaos, and a complete disaster from start to finish. For everybody involved -- evacuee, volunteer, paid staffer....


I decided I had an obligation to my own family to protect them from the disease I carried back to them -- especially given the fact that I didn't accomplish a damn thing the way my efforts were under cut by "the officials."


It was time to get out of formalized disaster response...


Hope your experiences in recent years have been better ones...

 

[PilotFighter]

Your best prep item for after a hurricane is going to be an old timey perculator coffee pot you can set on a wood stove or camp stove, and a ton of coffee. You are going to become the greatest person in the world to all your neighbors when they can have a nice cup of coffee.

 

[etc]

It depends if you should evac or not. They are talking like it's the "Day After tomorrow", with an icebreaker ship floating through the streets of Manhattan.

I have a genny so I am OK for a few days. But if gas runs out, I am in trouble. I can handle 3-day even but not a 3-week event.

 

[awakeaware]

Awakeaware,


Hope your experiences in recent years have been better ones...

I know, it was frustrating with Katrina at times, due to FEMA taking control at one point in the beginning.

But I don't get involved in all the politics. My focus has always been on helping the people. It was very rewarding because I got to help people directly. I also go to schools to help educate the kids on what to do in disasters with the Red Cross and that too is rewarding. I think of the people at all times and let everyone else deal with the bullshit. I have told the RC I am actually selfish, because I like going out as I feel great when I do so it is actually a selfish act on my part.

 

[homepark]

Wow. Great posts people. My only 'moderate' inconvenience, outside of war anyway, was a 9 day period dealing with an ice storm and no/intermittant power during that time. Yes, we were on a well, which made it a pain in the butt. However, folks have already posted good points. The only one I would add, that if you are in a colder climate, try to have a way to heat at least one room without power. The LAST thing I would use is an un-vented kerosene heater. Odor free does not exist for kero heaters, no matter what the container says. AND the CO risk. I keep a Heater Buddy and several bottles of propane (1lb 'ers). Make sure you have a battery operated CO detector in the room you are using it.

Over the 20 years since the ice storm, I have accumulated several no power, low power, dual power devices for heat and refrigeration. They are rarely cheap, but if you keep an eye out, you can get them at better prices.