POL Mail-in ballots must have dates on envelopes, Pennsylvania appeals court rules

20Gauge

TB Fanatic

A Pennsylvania federal appeals court has ruled that mail-in ballots received without accurate handwritten dates on the outside of envelopes are not valid, a ruling that will have a significant impact on this year's elections in the key battleground state.

The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit ruled 2-1 on Wednesday, overturning a lower court’s November decision.

The lower court had ruled that even without the proper dates, mail-in ballots should be counted if received on time. The court said that "trivial paperwork" errors disenfranchised voters and violated the Materiality Provision of the U.S. Civil Rights Act of 1964, which states that immaterial errors or omissions should not be used to prevent voting.

But in Wednesday’s federal appeals court’s opinion, Judge Thomas Ambro wrote that under a state legislature passed law, mail-in voters must write the date on their envelopes in order to make their vote effective.

"The Supreme Court of Pennsylvania unanimously held this ballot-casting rule is mandatory; thus, failure to comply renders a ballot invalid under Pennsylvania law," Ambro wrote.

The Materiality Provision "only applies when the State is determining who may vote," Ambro wrote.

Under a state law passed in 2019, Pennsylvania voters must "fill out, date and sign the declaration printed on [the] envelope" before returning their ballot.

Proponents of mail-in ballots argue it makes voting more convenient, as well as being easier for senior citizens and people with disabilities to vote. However, some Republicans say that the process raises serious election integrity issues, while former President Donald Trump has blasted the system as "totally corrupt" and blames it, in part, for his 2020 election loss.

In Pennsylvania, Democrats have been far more likely to vote by mail than Republicans.

"This is a crucial victory for election integrity and voter confidence in the Keystone State and nationwide," Michael Whatley, the chair of the Republican National Committee said in a statement.

"Pennsylvanians deserve to feel confident in the security of their mail ballots, and this Third Circuit ruling roundly rejects unlawful left-wing attempts to count undated or incorrectly dated mail ballots."

The American Civil Liberties Union of Pennsylvania, which helped represent groups and voters who challenged the date mandate, said that voters will lose as a result of the ruling.

"If this ruling stands, thousands of Pennsylvania voters could lose their vote over a meaningless paperwork error," said Mike Lee, the executive director of the ACLU in Pennsylvania.

"The ballots in question in this case come from voters who are eligible and who met the submission deadline. In passing the Civil Rights Act, Congress put a guardrail in place to be sure that states don’t erect unnecessary barriers that disenfranchise voters. It’s unfortunate that the court failed to recognize that principle."


In the 2022 midterms, more than 7,600 mailed ballots in 12 counties were tossed because their outer envelopes lacked dates or had incorrect dates, according to the decision.
 

20Gauge

TB Fanatic
As it should be..... "meaningless" is a joke, they have meaning..... if you mailed the thing after the due date, it is invalid. How to determine that? BY THE DARN DATE ON THE ENVELOPE!!!!!

This is just an attempt to loosen rules to the point where if you don't like an election result, you just keep submitting ballots until you get the result you want.... even weeks or months later......

We have rule of law for a reason. None of these rules are meaningless. If they really are, then invalidate the law.....
 

Elza

Veteran Member
It's not hard to write a false date on an envelope. Hand written, scanned, and printed by computer. They can print as many boxes of them as they want to make sure that they have a sufficient number on hand for their cheating.
 

Border Collie Dad

Flat Earther
As it should be..... "meaningless" is a joke, they have meaning..... if you mailed the thing after the due date, it is invalid. How to determine that? BY THE DARN DATE ON THE ENVELOPE!!!!!
I may have mis-read.
I thought the date had to be handwritten.
A good date could be handwritten anytime.
Even after the election.
 

Publius

TB Fanatic
I'm waiting for them to find some big over weight black woman and put her before the press stating this is racist and we cannot have it and filed a civil cost case against it.
 

Dobbin

Faithful Steed
A postmark would be a more accurate and fraud resistant way of tracking mail time.

Mailed envelopes would likely be treated like any other mail. In fact that too should be a requirement.

IIRC, one of the states had two envelopes - one in Red for the Republican Vote, one in Blue for the Democrat vote. At a glance someone could tell which envelope should go in the trash can - and affect the outcome. As in - so much for the anonymity of selection.

A plain ballot envelope with only the destination printed AND the postage attached would be best.

In Cow Hampshire, the law requires Mail in Voters to "request" a mail ballot package by mail, or pick up the mail ballot package at the town office. One assumes in both these cases, the recipient would be checked against the voter rolls for eligibility.

So Owner in 2020 got unsolicited not one but THREE mailer requests which he might have mailed in - with three diverse out of state destinations - not even the Town Office. One was for New Jersey, one for South Carolina, one for Colorado.

Tell this horse something "fishy" wasn't going on.

Owner says he threw all three in the trash and voted IN PERSON on the day.

Dobbin
 

vector7

Dot Collector

Mail-in ballots must have dates on envelopes, Pennsylvania appeals court rules​

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mikeho78

Contributing Member
Something in my gut tells me that old Fetterman had a hand in delivering Pennsylvania to Biden, but the new post-stroke Fetterman will not be doing the same (nor will he be working in the same capacity) and Pennsylvania will go to Trump as it should have 4 years ago.
 

Griz3752

Retired, practising Curmudgeon
"meaningless paperwork error,"

OK then; if a finance source or any Govt. agency - IRS, State DMV or any of a host of orgs dictate something must be filed/reported on or before X day, Y hour, let me know how that works out for you.
 

Night Breeze

Veteran Member
I don't think this will stop illegal votes. The guy that opens the envelope will say they were all dated prior to the cutoff date. Who checks the ballot opener. This just gives the counters additional time to open abd hand count ballots.
 

Dobbin

Faithful Steed
I don't think this will stop illegal votes. The guy that opens the envelope will say they were all dated prior to the cutoff date. Who checks the ballot opener. This just gives the counters additional time to open abd hand count ballots.
The key thing here is the ballots "exist" - and can be re-tallied.

The problem with "tabulators" (such as are used in Cow Hampshire) is that the electronic count CAN be hacked - or even inaccurate (i.e. the sensor above Trump's name could be 80 percent reliable) BUT - the beauty of the Cow Hampshire tabulators is there is NO connection to the machine possible once it is set in motion: No internet, no updates, no nutting.

As I understand it, the machine are tested with a known group of 100 ballots. These have been hand counted and verified to be so many "A", so many "B", so many "C" votes. As long as the results resulting in so many for each on the tabulator output, the tabulator is considered "qualified" to do an election vote.

It is common here in Cow Hampshire that anything less than say a 100 vote spread is reason for a "manual re-count" - which is prone to its own errors of course, humans being what they are.

And - as the tabulator processes and counts the votes, the ballots are contained in a locked box underneath - which is only opened with TWO Keys - and in front of a judge as arbitor.

It is a pretty foolproof system which does take advantage of "automation." But has sufficient "back-up" which can be called forward if need be.

As it turns out, the NH State Legislature is currently considering a bill to introduce "more modern" systems to the mix. Below a link which outlines the current progress in Cow Hampshire. New voting machines for NH - NH Business Review

The two certified devices are the VotingWorks electronic ballot-counting device and the Dominion ImageCast Precinct electronic ballot-counting device.

Notable that both machines are made by the same Dominion Company...

Below a link to NH Women Voters site which outlines current NH voting methods.


And their entry link from which you can search YOUR particular state voting processes.


Dobbin
 

Josie

Has No Life - Lives on TB
there should be no mail in ballots ------period
No mail in ballots except for military stationed overseas. There should be no early voting simply because you don't feel like standing in line on election day. One day voting with valid ID, paper ballots. and election day is a holiday so no one can whine about being disenfranchised because they had to work. Counting should be done out in the open for all to see and televised for those that can't be there in person. And no machine (I would prefer a hand count.) can have internet capabilities. Forensic audit immediately before and after the tabulation process and all machines will be locked in a secure area for a period of 2 years.

I can't even believe this was an issue that had to be brought to court!!!
 
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