EBOLA "Love me. Hate me. But you will never forget me."

[Tuttle]

Today I may have come into contact with Ebola at my workplace, and the really scary part is that the woman who may have it does not give the first shit about hygiene.

The topic title actually derives from her tramp stamp. Which, in addition to being the finest shorthand I could imagine for “I could not give less of a shit about anyone but myself if I stopped social interaction altogether,” is a Stephen King touch if ever I saw one in real life.

She mentioned casually that her eyes were bloodshot and that'd never occurred with her seasonal allergies before – keep in mind she also mentioned having gone through a chemo regimen – then proceeded to wipe her hand on her nose and paw over pretty much every jewelry item we stock. Also, her feet were rather ruddy. I repeatedly suggested that she wash her hands, or at least let us know if she did turn out to have Ebola, and she just said “you're freaking me out” and proceeded just as before. During the process, she pricked her finger on two brooches.

I duly warned the cashiers, washed my hands, wiped down everything I knew her to have touched with alcohol swabs (very few porous surfaces, thankfully, and those were discardable), and there's no chance there was contact with anything but my healthy shin during the whole transaction, but with the time she took in the jewelry section, I can't imagine I covered everything she touched in the store. The cashiers brought out the hand sanitizer – I don't believe that stuff actually works on viruses, but I will obviously want confirmation on that score.

For interested parties, I'm in the Denver metro area, and the woman is about forty or fifty in face, thirty in body, with short iron-gray hair, and she was accompanied by a rather stoic, long-suffering toothless old man I judge to be her father.

 

[mzkitty]

There are people like that. The story about Typhoid Mary is that she would never wash her hands, even when ordered to do so.

 

[SusanKaye-ND]

Sadly some people live in denial, or think "this won't happen to me". That's what makes this world even scarier these days.

 

[Trivium Pursuit]

Brrr! Tuttle. am praying right now for your health. This proves my new definition of the American Ebola epidemic:

"The Avalanche of Special Snowflakes."

 

[Homesteader]

I hate people like that. Makes you wish they would take a long walk off of a short pier.

 

[yellowlabz]

Praying for your protection from everything that happened today.... that is terrible!! ewww!

 

[Chicken Mama]

What makes you believe she may have Ebola? And if you really have justification, did you call anyone?

 

[naturallysweet]

What makes you believe she may have Ebola? And if you really have justification, did you call anyone?

Denver + flu like symptoms + blood shot eyes (typica of Ebola)

Not a guarantee of anything. But probably enough to make anyone with a brain to want to crawl into a decontamination shower.

 

[Border Collie]

From my studies:
Hand sanitizers are actually very good disinfectants to use with this virus, as long as htey are at least 60% alcohol. The alcohol tears the virus up. Apply generously and allow to air dry for at least 15 seconds.


http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/ebola-virus/basics/prevention/con-20031241
http://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/air/managing-sick-travelers/ebola-guidance-airlines.html

http://www.globalhandwashing.org/resources/general/handwashing-ebola-factsheet

We know that Ebola virus can be killed by: soap, chlorine, alcohol-based hand rub (CDC recommends at least 60% alcohol), very high heat, and exposure to many hours of sunlight.

The preferred way to remove Ebola virus from your hands is with soap and running water. Soap and running water should always be used when hands are visibly dirty/soiled. If hands are not visibly dirty/soiled, you may alternatively use alcohol-based hand rub (at least 60% alcohol).

Some organizations advocate the use of 0.05% chlorine solution in place of, or in addition to, running water as an added precaution. This is acceptable, but note:

Chlorine should NOT be used as a replacement for soap or alcohol-based hand rub.
Chlorine needs to be in contact with your hands for a prolonged period to have an effect on Ebola virus, typically much longer than it takes to wash your hands, so the added benefit in handwashing is not clear.
The World Health Organization cautions that repeatedly washing your hands with chlorine solution can cause skin irritation and lesions, which can be counterproductive because broken skin creates a route for Ebola virus to enter the body. This risk increases as the chlorine solution becomes more concentrated. If you do use chlorine solution, it is important to ensure it is the right dilution (0.05%) and to check your hands regularly for signs of irritation: If chlorine causes irritation to your hands, you should stop using it.

How should I wash my hands?

You should wash your hands with soap in the usual way:

Wet your hands with running water or 0.05% chlorine solution.
Lather with soap for 20 seconds (the amount of time it takes to sing the ‘happy birthday’ song twice) – be sure to lather all parts of your hands: front, back and sides, and between fingers.
Rinse your hands with running water or 0.05% chlorine.
Shake your hands dry

If you are using alcohol-based hand rub, you should apply a palmful of alcohol-based hand rub and use a similar technique as above to cover all parts of your hands, and then air dry.
- See more at: http://www.globalhandwashing.org/resources/general/handwashing-ebola-factsheet#sthash.6i3bXSnZ.dpuf​

One of our valuable MD members here with expert level knowledge of this subject (maybe not at a research level, but more knowledgeable than any doctor we'll come across) advises using a hand sanitizer first and then hand washing.


Border Collie

 

[ainitfunny]

Wash your hands with soap and water then dip into colloidal silver.
If you can't wash, then colloidal silver will kill viruses.

I have put HUGGIES BABY WIPES (80 of them)into a quart zip lock bag then pour a whole 16 oz bottle of 70-90% alcohol into the bag till they are super saturated and there is excess alcohol in the bag. There is NOTHING BETTER FOR HAND DISINFECTION UNLESS IT IS COLLOIDAL SILVER WIPES, which disinfect everything you wipe down,

 

[John Deere Girl]

That is so gross & the sad part is there are a lot of people who think hygiene is overrated.

 

[Border Collie]

No offense intended, but colloidal silver works on bacteria, but there is no evidence that I've seen demonstrating it's effective on virii.

Border Collie

 

[MataPam]

I shocked my husband today. He listens to NPR all the time, and they had a thing today on Nigeria and what a fine job they'd done limiting the spread of Ebola from a single airline traveler. He was quickly placed in quarintine so only eleven healthcare workers caught ebola. This limited the deaths from ebola in the country to eight.

I said that if they'd just killed him, they would have saved the lives of seven people. He was shocked.

Well, what do you call a man who travels, knowing it will endanger other people? And he kills seven other people?

 

[ainitfunny]

No offense intended, but colloidal silver works on bacteria, but there is no evidence that I've seen demonstrating it's effective on virii.

Border Collie

You haven't LOOKED.
Here is part of just the first research report (.gov NIH study) I pulled up in one minute

Antiviral activity of mycosynthesized silver nanoparticles against herpes simplex virus and human parainfluenza virus type 3
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3826769/
Abstract
The interaction between silver nanoparticles and viruses is attracting great interest due to the potential antiviral activity of these particles, and is the subject of much research effort in the treatment of infectious diseases. In this work, we demonstrate that silver nanoparticles undergo a size-dependent interaction with herpes simplex virus types 1 and 2 and with human parainfluenza virus type 3. We show that production of silver nanoparticles from different fungi is feasible, and their antiviral activity is dependent on the production system used. Silver nanoparticles are capable of reducing viral infectivity, probably by blocking interaction of the virus with the cell, which might depend on the size and zeta potential of the silver nanoparticles. Smaller-sized nanoparticles were able to inhibit the infectivity of the viruses analyzed.

Here is another one:

Silver nanoparticles as potential antiviral agents http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22024958
Galdiero S1, Falanga A, Vitiello M, Cantisani M, Marra V, Galdiero M.
Author information

Abstract
Virus infections pose significant global health challenges, especially in view of the fact that the emergence of resistant viral strains and the adverse side effects associated with prolonged use continue to slow down the application of effective antiviral therapies. This makes imperative the need for the development of safe and potent alternatives to conventional antiviral drugs. In the present scenario, nanoscale materials have emerged as novel antiviral agents for the possibilities offered by their unique chemical and physical properties. Silver nanoparticles have mainly been studied for their antimicrobial potential against bacteria, but have also proven to be active against several types of viruses including human imunodeficiency virus, hepatitis B virus, herpes simplex virus, respiratory syncytial virus, and monkey pox virus. The use of metal nanoparticles provides an interesting opportunity for novel antiviral therapies. Since metals may attack a broad range of targets in the virus there is a lower possibility to develop resistance as compared to conventional antivirals. The present review focuses on the development of methods for the production of silver nanoparticles and on their use as antiviral therapeutics against pathogenic viruses.
PMID: 22024958 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Free full text

A THIRD REFERENCE:

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J Nanobiotechnology. 2011 Aug 3;9:30. doi: 10.1186/1477-3155-9-30.
Silver nanoparticles are broad-spectrum bactericidal and virucidal compounds.
Lara HH1, Garza-Treviño EN, Ixtepan-Turrent L, Singh DK.
Author information

Abstract
The advance in nanotechnology has enabled us to utilize particles in the size of the nanoscale. This has created new therapeutic horizons, and in the case of silver, the currently available data only reveals the surface of the potential benefits and the wide range of applications. Interactions between viral biomolecules and silver nanoparticles suggest that the use of nanosystems may contribute importantly for the enhancement of current prevention of infection and antiviral therapies. Recently, it has been suggested that silver nanoparticles (AgNPs) bind with external membrane of lipid enveloped virus to prevent the infection. Nevertheless, the interaction of AgNPs with viruses is a largely unexplored field. AgNPs has been studied particularly on HIV where it was demonstrated the mechanism of antiviral action of the nanoparticles as well as the inhibition the transmission of HIV-1 infection in human cervix organ culture. This review discusses recent advances in the understanding of the biocidal mechanisms of action of silver Nanoparticles.
PMID: 21812950 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] PMCID: PMC3199605 Free PMC Article

NOW, IS EVERYBODY SATISFIED?
You should know, that I don't go to the snake oil salesmen for my facts!

 

[moldy]

Denver - I haven't heard of cases there. Please tell me if there are.

 

[SAPPHIRE]

Definitely say something if Denver is on hit list...................

 

[R.Tist]

Resolution:

Use everything that people say works - then you're covered!

Should take a lot less energy than arguing about it!


Artie.

 

[TerryK]

So a tramp stamp and red eyes says Ebola to you???

Ever drink too much the night before?
Ever have a cold?

I would ask about the tramp stamp, but it's none of my business. Yours either.

 

[sy32478]

Colorado and bloodshot eyes makes me think pothead.

 

[vessie]

No offense intended, but colloidal silver works on bacteria, but there is no evidence that I've seen demonstrating it's effective on virii.

Border Collie

I was once privliged to read a research paper from a very well known university on the west coast where they did extensive testing on colloidal silver.

They found that it killed every bacteria, virus, mold and spores in the whole lab. You cannot find this research paper on the net for many years now. They were told to 'pull it'.

I have personally used it on viral infections and it worked but I used pharmaceutical grade 550ppm.

Thought I'd mention this. V

 

[vessie]

The difference between hand sanitizers and washing your hands with soap and water is in my sister's words, "Always use soap and water, just like mom said. Soap is a surfactant. It breaks the tension on your skin and lifts the virus off. Hand sanitizer is alcohol which removes the natural oil layer that protects you skin. The dry and cracked skin from overuse of alcohol will absorb the virus and other bacterium more readily. Alcohol does not kill obola, you must use bleach."

Thought I'd share that little reminder I got from my sister today. V

 

[Dux]

Tuttle, I will spray bleach in the air for you. May you be protected in spirit and in the world from disease.

 

[Vegas321]

Humans are nasty creatures. The first thing your taught in any type of healthcare setting is, treat everyone as if they are infectious.

 

[Doc1]

As a matter of percentages, Tuttle has virtually no chance of contracting ebola from the skank woman in the OP (at this time). Nonetheless, I sympathize with their position; there are any number of other diseases they could contract. Several things come to mind after reading this post. As a matter of survival and personal civil rights, anyone should feel free to refuse service to anyone. In truth, if Tuttle was concerned about the skank woman's behavior and her possible infectious status, he (or she) should've asked them to leave the establishment. Too many people are conditioned by social mores to be polite and reserved when they should be proactive and vocal about defending themselves and their place of employment against possible hazards.

Many people would feel embarrassed doing this, but the truth is that the patron should be the one who feels the embarrassment!

Best regards
Doc

 

[bluelady]

I hope it isn't too much OT to this thread to keep talking about hand washing, but I have a question:

I'm sure that prolonged washing probably does eventually remove any virus from the skin. But then where does that virus go? I guess eventually, before re-entering the municipal water supply, the washing water ends up being treated with chlorine which I assume would at that point neutralize the virus. But what path does the water take in the meantime? In some places the water could be in open areas, or even aerosolized while rushing somewhere?

 

[Mulder]

So other than the fact that this lady was a a totally disgusting, unsanitary pig of a person with no common decency, I'm not clear on why you would suspect that you contacted Ebola.

 

[ainitfunny]

I see absolutely no reason to suspect Ebola at all.
Just a person with low personal hygiene who probably has a cold or flu.
Enough reason there to avoid, without letting your imagination run wild.

 

[QWERT123]

"Love me. Hate me. But you will never forget me."

Hmmm, seems like she was right.

 

[twincougars]

Well I wore purple rubber gloves into Walmart tonight. I felt a little self-conscious, but nobody said anything, even the cashier didn't mention it. Trouble is, it wasn't a perfect solution because I had to touch my wallet and my credit cards with the gloves that had touched everything else I handled in the store, so technically they would be contaminated. Baby steps. Next would be wiping down all those things I touched with the gloves before they were removed and discarded. Maybe I should carry around some plastic bio hazard labeled bags to put the gloves in. Of course, if I suspected ebola around here I would be staying home, but you never know who might have just come from the Spokane airport who could have sat next to someone who had it or had contacted someone who had it.

ETA: Even doctors make mistakes with sterile procedures. I watched a youtube video last night where a dentist was removing a tooth. He wore latex gloves. Gave a Novocaine shot into the patient's gum, then touched the needle with the gloved finger that had been around in the patient's mouth, and then pushed the needle back into another spot in the gum, transferring whatever bacteria might have been in the patients mouth into the puncture made by the needle. OF all the comments made on the video, no one (except me) brought this up.

 

[Mo Earth]

When I was in Walmart a few days ago, the cashiers were wearing gloves and "freaked" over ebola.

 

[Just Believin]

The cashiers in my Walmart have worn gloves for some time.

 

[ainitfunny]

Ever see someone take their gloves off with their teeth? LOL..
OR, shove the thumb of a dirty, gloved hand down in the opposite gloved hand in order to take that glove off, thereby depositing all the germs from the thumb into the palm of the opposite bare hand.

 

[Fetz]

I have latex/nitrile gloves that I use for mixing insecticides and other household chemicals. I rinse them in a 5 gal. bucket of water before removing. What is the proper way to remove if infected with virus ?

 

[Moggy]

@ Tuttle...Prayers sent in your behalf.

@ Ainitfunny:

You haven't LOOKED.


NOW, IS EVERYBODY SATISFIED?
You should know, that I don't go to the snake oil salesmen for my facts!

Border Collie was being polite, there is no need for rudeness by screaming.

 

[Blue 5]

Colorado and bloodshot eyes makes me think pothead.

^^^This.^^^

 

[Tuttle]

In truth, if Tuttle was concerned about the skank woman's behavior and her possible infectious status, he (or she) should've asked them to leave the establishment. Too many people are conditioned by social mores to be polite and reserved when they should be proactive and vocal about defending themselves and their place of employment against possible hazards.

Many people would feel embarrassed doing this, but the truth is that the patron should be the one who feels the embarrassment!

Best regards
Doc

I delivered even what I did say in a comically obsequious squeak, for that matter. The better-screwed-than-rude thing plagues me a good deal more in real life, and I must learn to get my Mike Havel on.

But yes, I have a history of imagined disease (oral cancer was the classic - the dentist just laughed and asked me how long I'd been chewing tobacco) and it's an occasion for hypochondria by proxy. Not at all surprised to learn that this was likely a false alarm.

 

[FROG]

I see absolutely no reason to suspect Ebola at all.
Just a person with low personal hygiene who probably has a cold or flu.
Enough reason there to avoid, without letting your imagination run wild.

Realistically, I agree with your post. However, emotionally I do a mental check now whenever someone is around me coughing, sneezing and when I go out in public and have to handle things.

 

[twincougars]

I have latex/nitrile gloves that I use for mixing insecticides and other household chemicals. I rinse them in a 5 gal. bucket of water before removing. What is the proper way to remove if infected with virus ?

 

[Faroe]

Sounds like a junkie.
Are you SURE nothing was stolen? I would have kept a sharp eye on her AND the old guy.

One looses nothing by telling such people to leave.
She was a nuisance, not a customer.

 

[vessie]

Sounds like a junkie.
Are you SURE nothing was stolen? I would have kept a sharp eye on her AND the old guy.

One looses nothing by telling such people to leave.
She was a nuisance, not a customer.

That was my first thought.

Shoplifters like to go 'coon fingering' (like a racoon, who has to touch everything around them!) everything around them and they usually bring someone as a diversion.

It'll be very interesting to see how much shrinkage you have when it's time to do inventory. V