TECH Long term review of Tesla Model Y BEV

[AlfaMan]

In line with this EV thread, I got to inspect a new F-150 Lightning EV pickup today. I say new, it had 2300 miles on it. What a fun piece of machinery for an electric vehicle!

it's a Ford F-150 that happens to be electric, folks. Well built overall; good quality materials and comfortable. Well optioned too, it was a Platinum model. it's all very F-150 like, until you step on the go pedal.

The F-150 lightning when you step on the go pedal becomes a pretty good facsimile of a top fuel dragster. Push you back in your seat HARD acceleration. And it's so quiet. And stupidly fast.

And the Lightning platinum model trucks for 2023 are $87,000 not including any markups. Pricey, but the grin factor is very high with this vehicle. practicality i can see in a fleet environment with this truck-use it in an urban handy man situation.

On another note-got to play with an inoperable model X tesla today. The gull wing doored version. This one would not drive. It would power up, it would charge up; but would not move forward or reverse. Since there's no OBD2 port to pull trouble codes off any Tesla (But the F-150 Lightning does have an OBD2 port) the mechanics were basically guessing what might be wrong with it. I thought it was the power inverter which takes power from the battery to the drive motors. But I don't know.

what i do know is the dealer didn't want the headache dealing with the issue and was wholesaling it on an as is basis. Thinking the car was over mileage for the issue to be covered by warranty.

Dealers regularly wholesale inop vehicles; sell it cheap to get out from under it and let another dealer deal with the repair issues. It was the first inop EV I'd ever dealt with, frankly.

 

[Warthog]

I'd rather spend the cash on a 2023 Toyota Sequoia TRD 5.7L V8 guzzler!

 

[Jeff Allen]

Thx for the review AlfaMan! My accountant was telling me about a friend of his (lawyer) who bought a Lightning and loved it until he had to drive from home, to the office (Marshall, Illinois) and then up to court in Indy...which then doomed him to attempt to get into the public charging network in order to make it back home. He sold it to someone who didn't have to drive so far. The range on that vehicle is weak, IMO.

This route would be no problem for my Model Y Long Range, but even if it was, I would have multiple excellent Supercharger options....that are up in the 99.?? percent of the time. When a supercharger goes down Tesla dispatches an acutual human and the issue is corrected before almost anyone notices there was a problem.....Over the last few months of driving my gasoline powered vehicle I was looking and you know, its not even remotely rare for a gas pump to be down (nozzel is bagged). I would see this at a station at least once a week. BUT, there are usually 6-10 other pumps there that are working. This isn't necessarily the case with FLO EV or Electrify America stations...

I see only two issues with the Lightning.
1. Wow...is it expensive...paying cash is very good at helping me to stay well within my means and thats a LOT of cash for a vehicle that is going to zero in 15 short years if not sooner. I'd just be in a CRV personally instead...the cpm (cost per mile) would take several years longer to work out on the lightning for me.
2. The "public charging network". First off, its vast, much larger than most people think. Unfortunately, its not very reliable. There may be 8 chargers and 1 or even none is working today. Tomorrow they may all work. You may be able to pull up to a non working unit and run it through a reset and get it working twenty minutes later. Or maybe not. IMO its a legitimate nightmare unless you are retired. Nobody who has to work for a living has time to fritz around with inoperative chargers or keep going from station to station in order to find something that works. And...you might get lucky for 6 months and every time you use a charger it just works...its unfortunately a crapshoot as of yet.

Obviously, for the average commuter, you just charge at home and if you were my wife for example, you would need public charging exactly never in an entire year...which is literally a huge majority of commuters.

J

 

[Firebird]

Thx for the review AlfaMan! My accountant was telling me about a friend of his (lawyer) who bought a Lightning and loved it until he had to drive from home, to the office (Marshall, Illinois) and then up to court in Indy...which then doomed him to attempt to get into the public charging network in order to make it back home. He sold it to someone who didn't have to drive so far. The range on that vehicle is weak, IMO.

This route would be no problem for my Model Y Long Range, but even if it was, I would have multiple excellent Supercharger options....that are up in the 99.?? percent of the time. When a supercharger goes down Tesla dispatches an acutual human and the issue is corrected before almost anyone notices there was a problem.....Over the last few months of driving my gasoline powered vehicle I was looking and you know, its not even remotely rare for a gas pump to be down (nozzel is bagged). I would see this at a station at least once a week. BUT, there are usually 6-10 other pumps there that are working. This isn't necessarily the case with FLO EV or Electrify America stations...

I see only two issues with the Lightning.
1. Wow...is it expensive...paying cash is very good at helping me to stay well within my means and thats a LOT of cash for a vehicle that is going to zero in 15 short years if not sooner. I'd just be in a CRV personally instead...the cpm (cost per mile) would take several years longer to work out on the lightning for me.
2. The "public charging network". First off, its vast, much larger than most people think. Unfortunately, its not very reliable. There may be 8 chargers and 1 or even none is working today. Tomorrow they may all work. You may be able to pull up to a non working unit and run it through a reset and get it working twenty minutes later. Or maybe not. IMO its a legitimate nightmare unless you are retired. Nobody who has to work for a living has time to fritz around with inoperative chargers or keep going from station to station in order to find something that works. And...you might get lucky for 6 months and every time you use a charger it just works...its unfortunately a crapshoot as of yet.

Obviously, for the average commuter, you just charge at home and if you were my wife for example, you would need public charging exactly never in an entire year...which is literally a huge majority of commuters.

J

That's why, just in my opinion, an EV is really only good for office and home, or grocery and home. It really isn't efficient for vacation travels and such, and you certainly cannot tow or work with them.

 

[Jeff Allen]

That's why, just in my opinion, an EV is really only good for office and home, or grocery and home. It really isn't efficient for vacation travels and such, and you certainly cannot tow or work with them.

Well, I guess that depends on your definition of "work"....I exceed 50k per year for work...so thats a lot more than average ( https://xxx.kbb.com/car-advice/average-miles-driven-per-year/ ) so, under 14,000 per year average.

I have seen zero evidence that a realistic pickup truck alternative has been developed by any EV maker, including the giants in China.

I have a 750 mile each way trip planned in July, I'll absolutely update this thread with how badly the on the road charging sucks or doesn't after that trip.

Plus, we here on this forum are definitely not normal (a VERY good thing IMO)....we tend to live rural...and some of us live out west and I doubt that ANY BEV would work for those situations. Unfortunately, the bubble we live in is not the norm...and the norm is urban, they have the numbers and will drive the direction the industry takes. I think ICE options will decline quicker than anyone here would like. I have zero issue with ICE for Toyota and Honda, they are awesome when old (when we used to have to drive old cars)...Ford, GM and Dodge have killed us with transmissions, engines, radiators, suspension and rear ends over the years! Our local transmission shop is overflowing with these makes all the time. My F250 ate $6k in parts for the front end last spring! 140,000 miles...insanity.

All I know is this...for basic transportation, after I drove a Tesla, I was instantly sold. I now have 1,700 miles on the vehicle and would hate to be forced to go back to gasoline....

Also, I forgot to address the RATHER LARGE NEGATIVE that AlfaMan brought up. It needs addressed and people need to understand that IF you choose to buy a Tesla, you have limited service options! This could be a HUGE NEGATIVE IMO.

After I understood the technology would most likely work ok for me, this was the next largest hurdle for me to get over mentally.

Since I live in the middle of nowhere....its 45 minutes one way to any sort of dealer service, so, the Honda or Toyota I would have bought would have been that sort of commitment. Tesla is 1.5 hours away. Or, if the Indy service center turns out to be gross, I have other 2hr options. My nearest Ram high roof service center? Also 1.5 hours away.... but, the Tesla service center isn't a stealership...doesn't mean they are good, but may have dealers screwed us when we could least afford it....

However, the entire Tesla business model is different than the legacy auto makers who make a significant portion of their overall revenue on parts that really start kicking in 5-7 years after original delivery. SUPPOSEDLY....BEV's have significantly less repair issues north of 100,000 miles. This thread will absolutely show whatever problems I experience! If my car is a POS, YOU will know it!

Tesla makes almost all of their revenue up front on the sale and after the sale on software, not parts. This gives me hope...maybe its irrational...but still, after being poor for a very long time and driving old POS legacy junk that constantly broke...my Tesla doesn't even have any of the parts we used to have lots of problems with, but, it does have different parts that may turn out to not be good after 200k. I just do not know yet...

Thank you for your patience....it will take some years for this thread to show my experiences...

J

 

[Profit of Doom]

Quiet, not quite.

 

[Firebird]

Well, I guess that depends on your definition of "work"....I exceed 50k per year for work...so thats a lot more than average ( https://xxx.kbb.com/car-advice/average-miles-driven-per-year/ ) so, under 14,000 per year average.

I have seen zero evidence that a realistic pickup truck alternative has been developed by any EV maker, including the giants in China.

I have a 750 mile each way trip planned in July, I'll absolutely update this thread with how badly the on the road charging sucks or doesn't after that trip.

Plus, we here on this forum are definitely not normal (a VERY good thing IMO)....we tend to live rural...and some of us live out west and I doubt that ANY BEV would work for those situations. Unfortunately, the bubble we live in is not the norm...and the norm is urban, they have the numbers and will drive the direction the industry takes. I think ICE options will decline quicker than anyone here would like. I have zero issue with ICE for Toyota and Honda, they are awesome when old (when we used to have to drive old cars)...Ford, GM and Dodge have killed us with transmissions, engines, radiators, suspension and rear ends over the years! Our local transmission shop is overflowing with these makes all the time. My F250 ate $6k in parts for the front end last spring! 140,000 miles...insanity.

All I know is this...for basic transportation, after I drove a Tesla, I was instantly sold. I now have 1,700 miles on the vehicle and would hate to be forced to go back to gasoline....

Also, I forgot to address the RATHER LARGE NEGATIVE that AlfaMan brought up. It needs addressed and people need to understand that IF you choose to buy a Tesla, you have limited service options! This could be a HUGE NEGATIVE IMO.

After I understood the technology would most likely work ok for me, this was the next largest hurdle for me to get over mentally.

Since I live in the middle of nowhere....its 45 minutes one way to any sort of dealer service, so, the Honda or Toyota I would have bought would have been that sort of commitment. Tesla is 1.5 hours away. Or, if the Indy service center turns out to be gross, I have other 2hr options. My nearest Ram high roof service center? Also 1.5 hours away.... but, the Tesla service center isn't a stealership...doesn't mean they are good, but may have dealers screwed us when we could least afford it....

However, the entire Tesla business model is different than the legacy auto makers who make a significant portion of their overall revenue on parts that really start kicking in 5-7 years after original delivery. SUPPOSEDLY....BEV's have significantly less repair issues north of 100,000 miles. This thread will absolutely show whatever problems I experience! If my car is a POS, YOU will know it!

Tesla makes almost all of their revenue up front on the sale and after the sale on software, not parts. This gives me hope...maybe its irrational...but still, after being poor for a very long time and driving old POS legacy junk that constantly broke...my Tesla doesn't even have any of the parts we used to have lots of problems with, but, it does have different parts that may turn out to not be good after 200k. I just do not know yet...

Thank you for your patience....it will take some years for this thread to show my experiences...

J

My definition of work is pulling camper, boat and work trailers

 

[Hfcomms]

My definition of work is pulling camper, boat and work trailers

An electric runabout I can understand although that isn't my cup of tea but this is why electric trucks are ludicrous.

 

[NHGUNNER]

@Jeff Allen
I’ve tried to stay up with the thread, but I may have missed this. When you laid out the vehicle costs I didn’t see you mention the charger installation. You said that was very important. Was it not a major cost?

As a side note, we saw a Tesla drive into the campground we were staying at last year. It was hauling a small travel trailer. The guy was from Massachusetts and we were in Western Maine. He said they stopped once to charge on the way up but the charger was at a grocery store so they did their shopping while they waited. From talking to other owners it appears that is the key. Proper planning.

 

[Jeff Allen]

@Jeff Allen
I’ve tried to stay up with the thread, but I may have missed this. When you laid out the vehicle costs I didn’t see you mention the charger installation. You said that was very important. Was it not a major cost?

As a side note, we saw a Tesla drive into the campground we were staying at last year. It was hauling a small travel trailer. The guy was from Massachusetts and we were in Western Maine. He said they stopped once to charge on the way up but the charger was at a grocery store so they did their shopping while they waited. From talking to other owners it appears that is the key. Proper planning.

I apologize for not carefully tracking the costs associated with installing the level 2 charger.

The wall charger was $425.

I ran the entire run in 1 1/2” metal conduit.
The runs were 80’ of wire, I cut off about 10 feet when done. I used #4cu stranded with standard Lowe’s coating (I forget the spec) but in conduit I can run 40A continuous safely. 70 amp breaker.

I spent about 15hrs sourcing and installing.

Total cost was probably right around $1,000.

I’d expect for my install an electrician would have added another $500 or so.

This could have been ran in free air with a different jacket which would have saved more than 1/2 the labor. I really like conduit though…cost really was not a consideration for such a short run.

My Tesla could pull a small travel trailer with ease, or even a large one as it has more torque and hp than my F-250 by far, but, it does not have the proper frame or weight to pull large loads safely. Small loads are certainly doable as you can find on YouTube but even Tesla does not have adequate charging without careful planning if a trailer is involved! I have an F-250…wouldn’t have any reason to tow with my work car, so I will not be providing any towing experiences, sorry.

As much as I travel I’m almost certain to have a charging problem and when I do I’ll be updating this thread.

Today I’m just 80 miles out (3hrs round trip)…I’ll get home with at least 30%…so it won’t be today…unless that off the wall service call comes in from timbuktwo…

J

 

[AlfaMan]

I apologize for not carefully tracking the costs associated with installing the level 2 charger.

The wall charger was $425.

I ran the entire run in 1 1/2” metal conduit.
The runs were 80’ of wire, I cut off about 10 feet when done. I used #4cu stranded with standard Lowe’s coating (I forget the spec) but in conduit I can run 40A continuous safely. 70 amp breaker.

I spent about 15hrs sourcing and installing.

Total cost was probably right around $1,000.

I’d expect for my install an electrician would have added another $500 or so.

This could have been ran in free air with a different jacket which would have saved more than 1/2 the labor. I really like conduit though…cost really was not a consideration for such a short run.

My Tesla could pull a small travel trailer with ease, or even a large one as it has more torque and hp than my F-250 by far, but, it does not have the proper frame or weight to pull large loads safely. Small loads are certainly doable as you can find on YouTube but even Tesla does not have adequate charging without careful planning if a trailer is involved! I have an F-250…wouldn’t have any reason to tow with my work car, so I will not be providing any towing experiences, sorry.

As much as I travel I’m almost certain to have a charging problem and when I do I’ll be updating this thread.

Today I’m just 80 miles out (3hrs round trip)…I’ll get home with at least 30%…so it won’t be today…unless that off the wall service call comes in from timbuktwo…

J

I wouldn't recommend putting a hitch on your Tesla and towing with it. First off, your car has a full plastic belly pan covering the entire underside. Start cutting into that and you'll mess up the aerodynamics of the vehicle.

Second thing is; there's no real place to mount a hitch underneath. Those cars are unibodies, not unibody on frame or even body on frame. You might drill into the rear frame stub rails to mount a hitch, but the holes may weaken the strength of the rails. They're regular steel with a zinc chromate type coating. And not a terribly heavy gauge steel either.

 

[Jeff Allen]

I wouldn't recommend putting a hitch on your Tesla and towing with it. First off, your car has a full plastic belly pan covering the entire underside. Start cutting into that and you'll mess up the aerodynamics of the vehicle.

Second thing is; there's no real place to mount a hitch underneath. Those cars are unibodies, not unibody on frame or even body on frame. You might drill into the rear frame stub rails to mount a hitch, but the holes may weaken the strength of the rails. They're regular steel with a zinc chromate type coating. And not a terribly heavy gauge steel either.

Good advice AlfaMan!!

I can’t imagine using it to tow, I’ve got an F250, lol.

Tesla has a tow package on the website. IDK what the ratings are. I have watched YouTube vids of people towing and the battery definitely struggles! The supercharger network needs a LOT more rural chargers before towing is reasonable with current tech, IMO

J

 

[et2]

Looked at Tesla dealers around us. One better plan that into their thinking about buying one. They’re few and far between. Well over a two hour drive to get repairs. And I live in the suburbs. Deal breaker for most people. Especially if out in the sticks.

Much less out on a long trip. You’re screwed

 

[NHGUNNER]

I apologize for not carefully tracking the costs associated with installing the level 2 charger.

The wall charger was $425.

I ran the entire run in 1 1/2” metal conduit.
The runs were 80’ of wire, I cut off about 10 feet when done. I used #4cu stranded with standard Lowe’s coating (I forget the spec) but in conduit I can run 40A continuous safely. 70 amp breaker.

I spent about 15hrs sourcing and installing.

Total cost was probably right around $1,000.

I’d expect for my install an electrician would have added another $500 or so.

This could have been ran in free air with a different jacket which would have saved more than 1/2 the labor. I really like conduit though…cost really was not a consideration for such a short run.

That’s a lot less than I would have anticipated. Thanks for the info.

 

[Firebird]

I remember, on here, the tests on the F150 EV towing a boat against a Chevy V8 towing the same boat. At 80 miles, the F150 needed a charge, the Chevy still had 250 miles of range at that point. Heck, with the F150 EV, I could get the boat to the coast, but wouldn't be able to get back home! What a POS

 

[Millwright]

Starting to see snips about towing aids.

Electric trailers, with batteries to assist and EV tow dollies between the truck and trailer.

 

[Jeff Allen]

Millwright, Yes, I've seen same. I think Airstream has introduced a trailer that will have a drive unit and battery. What I'm curious to learn is what kind of charging time and network will be available. RV park operators will have to significantly upgrade their electrical service to provide level 2 charging for example. I suspect the first RV park operators to do so will cash in, especially in states where EV adoption is high like CA and FL.
Airstream trailers are already outrageously expensive I think...I can only imagine how expensive the drive unit equipped trailers will be.

Firebird, I also saw the TFL truck towing comparison between the Lightning and others. When you use language like "what a POS" I can tell you've never ridden or driven a Lightning. Its ok, my first reaction some months back to that video was similar to yours. BEV's are different, a direct comparison for something like what you appropriately labeled as "work" isn't even on the table yet IMO.

Towing is a very small niche market in reality. Nobody has yet addressed that I know of. I realize YOU tow, and you think you do that a lot. Maybe you do. I tow, but on average not a lot of miles per year. Last year I towed about 3,000 miles and spent over $1,500 on fuel for the trip. With current vehicles and charging infrastructure our trip would not have been possible for us with the time we had available. We would have just used hotels instead of renting a travel trailer. (and I've learned hotels are sooooo much cheaper than a travel trailer for at least 95% of travel trailer owners, but thats a whole other thread...hell we could have paid for the hotels on fuel savings alone on our trip to Teton)
The Rivian doesn't tow very far either. Time will tell on the Cyber truck, but I doubt it will fare much differently than the Lightning. Even IF it tows for 300 miles...its HUGE battery will take a LONG time to recharge. For as long as I can see the future I'll be using my F-250 to tow. The lightning would easily cover my needs for local towing....if its towing capacity is adequate, which I doubt, as my skid steer and trailer gross around 13,000lbs.
Can BEV's "tow"...the Tesla semi proves, absolutely. Will a BEV be practical for you or me towing our trailers/equipment/travel trailers anytime in say the next 5 years? I'd say categorically NO. The semi has special (read FAST and LARGE) chargers...these are not "out in the wild" so to speak, so completely impractical for guys like us....and it will be many years before such infrastructure could be built out for BEV pickup trucks that can actually tow 300 miles.

J

 

[SmithJ]

Yeah, I dont get the gripes about poor towing with electric vehicles. Why would you even try that with todays technology for anything more than across town?

Different tools for different jobs. I mean, sure, you could try to use a cordless reciprocating saw to cut firewood but you won't get as far as you would with a gas chainsaw. Yet there's a lot of other good use cases for the cordless reciprocating saw.

Buy what you want and buy what you need and recognize the limitations. And if you can only buy one, buy the one than is best all around for your usage.

And Jeff, thanks for the review! Look forward to more real life observations.

 

[Jeff Allen]

Good morning family!
Well, just past 20,000 miles on the Tesla and wanted to do a short follow up with thoughts.

1. Time savings (no more gas station almost every day). This could be looked at a couple of different ways. Most days I only charge at home, but, those 4-6 days per month I travel far (over 130 one way) and have to charge away from home, this ALWAYS takes longer than gasoline. However....all of the lengthy charge sessions (15-20 minutes) I need are at grocery stores....soooo, technically I don't "wait" at all...I just go get some stuff I need anyway, like a healthy lunch or water for my CPAP. And YOU try and get out of a Hy-Vee in under 20 minutes after peeing and finding two or three things...good luck! So, usually I get MORE charge than I actually wanted (I just want enough to continue or get home at 10%, ie. 30 miles range). Frankly, I call the charge time issue a wash for my use case. Am I "waiting"...ok, yeah, but, do I have to go to grocery stores anyway? Yes I do. AND when I work central KY the Evansville charger is NOT CONVIENENT, its at a Meir that takes me 10 minutes to get to, so, 20 minutes is lost just getting to the charger off the interstate. I suspect, at the rate Tesla is adding chargers here in the midwest, in 3-5 years this will cease to be an issue at all. I literally pound 100 miles of range into my car in less time than it takes to fill with gas. The charging is seamless and painless....very fast. I can not even go in and take a leak and the car has charged more than I want most of the time. And, if I'm visiting a relative far from anywhere...just plug in anywhere for pennies and a couple of days later the car is full for a couple of dollars, not $50. The reason I don't want to charge at public charging is its 3x as expensive at least compared to home charging which brings me to:
2. Cost. CPM (cost per mile) is right at: 20,248 miles has cost me $1,077 or 5.32 cents per mile. At $3.50 per gallon (now a dream, right?) our Corolla cost 8.75 cents per mile. So, a significant lifestyle improvement for a little more than 1/2 cost. If I could just commute and never drive far away, my CPM would be 3.2 cents per mile for home charging only, which is less than 1/2 of a Corolla at 40mpg. Right now I'm on track to save over $9,000 in fuel the first year.
3. Comfort. Well, after 20,000 miles I'm absolutely pleased. The adaptive cruise control works insanely good...so good, it will slow me down on a curvy road automatically! The autopilot is basically lane keeping. These two free features have taken about 90% of the work out of my driving. Its phenomenal. For a road warrior, this car is the best thing I've ever experienced BY FAR....Fords shitty lane keeping is a joke as is Toyota's, neither one works worth a damn. This thing is unbelievably good. Its so good it kept me in lane for MILES WITH NO LINES in a new construction area, for example. So, I bought it for the CPM savings while hoping these features worked as well as all the people raving about them say they do....and now I don't give two shits about the CPM and love this thing because of these two amazing features! And, stuff like the lights and wipers...that stuff works so well automatically that I have to figure out how to use them if I want to....which is quite easy, the menu is very easy to adapt to if you spend any amount of time in the car, BUT....the last month I haven't fiddled with anything...its just so nice, I plop in the seat, start moving and tell the car where to nav to and it takes care of itself. The nav is shockingly good...."navigate to the hospital in X"...every time, so easy! The blinker canceling is crazy good....once you switch lanes it knows you switched lanes and shuts off the blinker....
4. The NOT GOOD. A couple of times the software that runs stuff on the car, like seats or mirrors has forgot to put the drivers seat into drive position from the easy entry position it automatically goes to. I've figured out this is when I don't allow a second to shift into reverse or drive, as in as I sit down I have to wait about a second (a semi eternity for one wound as tight as me) before placing the vehicle into a drive mode, then all is well.
The other NOT GOOD is its just different enough that new drivers usually feel overwhelmed. With 1.7 million miles driven it took me a good month (about 5,000 miles) to get used to the differences even though they really are minor...and honestly, it still spins my electronics technician brain that I just drove a battery power car 400 miles today...what??? Its just WEIRD that this thing has no gas....
As a side negative, I've had a couple of friends who watch Faux news who now think I'm a communist. Odd considering I think they are Socialists (they are hard core vote for R's no matter what people). And they know me pretty well. The brainwashing is real....Driving the most American made vehicle charged with American fossil fuels all the while saving over $9,000 in gas purchased from our enemies and I'm the one who's a commie??? wow. Conflation of the tech with the climate cultists does happen for some....
5. The unexpected. Ok, those videos you watched where some Tesla beat some super fast car? Yeah. Thats true. Its fast, crazy fast...at ALL speeds....need to pass someone going 50 in a 55? You biggest problem will be that you are going 90 before you are at the front of their car!!! UM...thats NOT GOOD....yikes what a speeding ticket that would be!!! 50-90 is something like 3 seconds, which, when you are passing is NOT LONG. So, I spent years not being able to pass anything, to being able to pass almost anyone given a very short safe passing opportunity. But, if they are going 55, I won't bother to pass, I'll just sit back and let the car drive while I enjoy the ride.
6. And, Full Self Driving. This is the software that if you pay $200 for the month, it will drive you portal to portal. It handles stops, construction (yeah, way better than you imagine!!!), emergency vehicles ect. I used it for about 10,000 miles and quit because it seems like a waste of $200 a month when item 3 above does what I needed. Also, I'm the guy you hate in construction zones. Thats right, I go the limit or LOWER if humans are actually present. We are driving 12" from someone's son, husband and father? I'm not doing that at 25, its going to be 10. If Jersey barriers are present, fine, I'll go through there whatever the limit is. The FSD would only slow to the limit...way to fast on two lane roads without a Jersey barrier for safety IMO. Also, people working or walking along the road, also farm equipment, FSD handles all that poorly, as in WAAAAY TOO FAST. It also handles stop sign turns like a grandma and comes to a full stop at stop signs....who does that???? It does roundabouts better than me, lol.
Sadly government forces the stupid granny behavior...so, I quit using it. Oh, also, if you use FSD, you can't touch your phone. If the in cabin camera sees you touch your phone it strikes you out and you can't use FSD for the remainder of you drive. PITA. What's the POINT of a car driving itself if I cant take care of the emails and texts we are constantly inundated with? So, now I use autopilot which allows the in cabin camera to be covered (privacy and all, lol) and I can do what I wish on empty country roads, only MUCH safer than before this helpful technology.
7. Sound system. This the best sound system I've been exposed to, ever. Music, podcasts, no matter, its just amazing.

Would I buy again? Absolutely. Zero regrets.

Questions? Ask away!

J

 

[SmithJ]

Well, it sounds like your use case exactly fits the platform. I dont blame you for loving it.

What kind (if any) service is necessary on these vehicles? Lube, etc.

And have you needed any kind of warranty work done?

How is the fit/finish holding up? What do the tires look like after 20K?

Is the A/C good old 80's style v-8 cold? or is it anemic?

 

[Jeff Allen]

Well, it sounds like your use case exactly fits the platform. I dont blame you for loving it.

What kind (if any) service is necessary on these vehicles? Lube, etc.

And have you needed any kind of warranty work done?

How is the fit/finish holding up? What do the tires look like after 20K?

Is the A/C good old 80's style v-8 cold? or is it anemic?

1. yes, use case is perfect for any sort of long commute, but makes little sense to switch if your commute is under 30 miles one way IMO.
2. Cabin filter is due every two years (which reminds me...the HEPA filter is amazing. No more decomp from dead animals. That nasty DEF regen from big trucks? can't smell it. The wild fires earlier this year? Nothing. Nothing gets through except I'm trapped with my own farts for a while).
Brakes are supposed to be checked once per year and lubed if in a salty environment.
Thats it...
3. none so far.
4. Fine, no issues. Well I took a nice big rock up front on the hood in week 1, so that got a little divot. Oh well, every car I've ever had gets rock nipped.... had a rock hit glass somewhere last week, HUGE SMACK....but nothing...no damage noted. Tires look almost new as I do not WOT off of every single stop like some apparently do....
5. A/C is very cold. I can get below DP on glass where the ac hits the glass..... Whats MUCH better than cold ac, is 10 minutes before I leave an account I open the app and turn on the AC from the hospital. Its cool and nice when I get there to load up and leave. Then the ac doesn't have to blast on me and freeze my front while my back roasts on a seat, lol.

J

 

[SmithJ]

1. yes, use case is perfect for any sort of long commute, but makes little sense to switch if your commute is under 30 miles one way IMO.
2. Cabin filter is due every two years (which reminds me...the HEPA filter is amazing. No more decomp from dead animals. That nasty DEF regen from big trucks? can't smell it. The wild fires earlier this year? Nothing. Nothing gets through except I'm trapped with my own farts for a while).
Brakes are supposed to be checked once per year and lubed if in a salty environment.
Thats it...
3. none so far.
4. Fine, no issues. Well I took a nice big rock up front on the hood in week 1, so that got a little divot. Oh well, every car I've ever had gets rock nipped.... had a rock hit glass somewhere last week, HUGE SMACK....but nothing...no damage noted. Tires look almost new as I do not WOT off of every single stop like some apparently do....
5. A/C is very cold. I can get below DP on glass where the ac hits the glass..... Whats MUCH better than cold ac, is 10 minutes before I leave an account I open the app and turn on the AC from the hospital. Its cool and nice when I get there to load up and leave. Then the ac doesn't have to blast on me and freeze my front while my back roasts on a seat, lol.

J

That AC sounds fantastic!

If the windshield would have needed replacement, do you know if the dealer has to do it? Sensor calibration and such, I would guess so...

 

[Ogre]

What is the estimated battery life? (Obviously dependent on the number of charging cycles.)
At some point it will have to be replaced and that will affect your CPM just a tad.

 

[Jeff Allen]

That AC sounds fantastic!

If the windshield would have needed replacement, do you know if the dealer has to do it? Sensor calibration and such, I would guess so...

I would just take it too the service center so its done right.
J

 

[Jeff Allen]

What is the estimated battery life? (Obviously dependent on the number of charging cycles.)
At some point it will have to be replaced and that will affect your CPM just a tad.

Unknown. Lots of MYLR's with over 300k, some over 500k, but most over 500 had a battery replaced under warranty (early models). I'm only planning on 200k...
Warranty is 120k.
cost is $13kish and dropping, so, assuming I need to swap batteries at 150k that would add 6.5 cents per mile. Still less than my Ram 2500 in repairs....a lot less. And I'd probably push out a year or two more if I have to replace the battery.
I think it will take a little while for the used market to accurately price in battery value.
I use recurrent for battery tracking, wouldn't buy used without a recurrent report so I know whats going on with the vehicle.
Use this quote in google to find the web page: The average lifespan of vehicles in the United States is 16.58 years. The average mileage of vehicles when junked was 156,470 miles. This is according to Junk Car Medics, a national junk car buying service, which analyzed over 50,000 records of junked cars from 2022 across the United States.

After learning how much safer Tesla batteries are vs. just standard ICE (about twice as many hybrids burn as ICE and just a fraction of BEV's, one study in the UK showed for every BEV that roasted, 61 ICE cars did the same) that ceased to be a concern. A LOT of dis/mis information out there. I've seen multiple "tesla on fire" videos on youtube that weren't even BEV's,....Buicks or Fords, lol. Huge money players with a massive interest in killing BEV's do make getting quality info a challenge...and the climate cult on the other side confounds information as well. Truth is usually in the middle....

J

 

[kochevnik]

Was curious about the 45,000 Tesla superchargers number which seemed high.

There are 1,847 Tesla Supercharger stations in the U.S. housing 20,040 Tesla Supercharger ports, according to data collected by the U.S. Department of Energy

Within 200 miles of me I think there is one LOL

Musk isnt doing electric cars for the environment/green energy scams he is doing them to save oil - which he thinks is too valuable to waste burning. I've seen direct interviews with him stating this.

He has a mega goal which I completely agree with - he wants us to get off this planet so we arent so vulnerable in the
future.

In space for example - the moon Titan is basically an ocean of hydrocarbons (it 'rains gasoline').

Thus - he owns tesla to preserve oil use, spaceX for launch capability and added twitter canned its censorship (and SJWs haha) so that public discourse was not so completely one-sided leftist agitprop. And of course the Mars project and Neuralink to improve human capabilities. And Starlink. And he has other BIG projects in the works.

I am not sure if he is on the right track with all this - but he IS doing at least SOMETHING which no one else on this planet really is and for that he has my respect.

Not meaning to hijack the thread. Jeff - Thanks for the Tesla review from a neutral source.

 

[9idrr]

Thanks, and please keep up the real-world reporting.

 

[GammaRat]

How's it work with EMPs?

My 73 Scout II works just fine...

 

[TedM1911]

*IF* your gas powered car gets > 25 mpg and/or has a larger than the currently standard 13-16 gallon gas tank. Many cars on the road today can't quite go 400 miles "straight through" due to their true mpg capability and/or their gas tank capacity.

My Ram 2500 gets 17 around town, heavy foot, and 25 mpg hwy. I can easily go 450+ miles on a full tank.

 

[Jeff Allen]

How's it work with EMPs?

My 73 Scout II works just fine...

Yes your '73 Scout most certainly will. As will most automobiles as verified by Loup. I suspect Teslas will work just fine till they run out of charge after an EMP just like almost all other cars will do fine till they run out of gas....either way, everyone without a fuel depot will be walking. IF I can get home, I have solar panels and more importantly, the knowledge, to slowly refill that nice battery... Remember you need a 15 mile long + "antenna" to couple that LF EMP energy. Probably not a lot of those in most cars...but, EMP is super scary!
My question is...would you REALLY, now truthfully, want to put 20,000 miles behind the wheel of your '73 Scout in 4 months AND repeat this over the next four months? To me, thats the thing nightmares are made of...I'd be willing to bet your '73 Scout serves you perfectly for your use case while at the same time it would be a misery for my use case. Different hammers for different jobs....
As a genuine prepper topic...I'm surprised more "preppers" don't see the utility in having a MASSIVE backup battery to sink their solar into....I'll guarantee you after watching the Monroe team tear apart the Model Y on Youtube I can get that battery out and use it for whatever I wish, or....for transportation post grid down on occasion when hydrocarbons are unobtainium.
Tools friends....these are just new tools we need to figure out how to use in our prepping toolboxes and our lives.
J

 

[Firebird]

I would love to have a 73 Scout!!!

 

[IJT]

Did you research the life and charge/discharge cycle of the batteries? Or the replacement cost? Our kids live 550 miles away and we make yearly trips to Florida, both locations are off of major freeways. I've checked for charging stations and found only a few and some of those were broken, according to people I spoke to. Locally Whole Foods has two charging stations that employees tie up all day, thus they almost never have open stations.
In Feb we realized we would need a new car as the cost to repair ours was more than the value of the car, I asked about the life of the batteries and charging cycles and cost, the answers scared me. I can have a ICE rebuilt or replaced for a fraction of the replacement cost of the batteries. The other issue I had with the Tesla is the central ipad. I like buttons for radio stations, HAVAC a gauges in front of me. Granted I'm 20 years older than you. I took one for a test and couldn't get used to it. I hope you enjoy yours and all the best to you.

 

[AlfaMan]

That's an interesting report. You may have gotten a "good" Tesla. I'm starting to get a number (not huge but noticeable) of bricked Teslas. Basically one or two cells go out in the pack and it won't recharge. I've actually had to do rescue charges on a few-model X's. Pull the grille off and there' a charge tit/receptacle there. Put a jump box to it and it will get your doors open but not much else.
Another thing I'm seeing is-delaminating main instrument panels; this is in all the Tesla models. That's an expensive fix.

Finally, seeing LOTS and LOTS of teslas pop up as total losses. The cars, when they get wrecked, end up in CoPart auctions with repair bills outstripping the value of the vehicle.

 

[energy_wave]

On another note-got to play with an inoperable model X tesla today. The gull wing doored version. This one would not drive. It would power up, it would charge up; but would not move forward or reverse.

Blown fuse.

 

[AlfaMan]

Blown fuse.

No, 13k for a motor inverter
.e

 

[GammaRat]

I'm not worried about a gasoline shortage.
There will be plenty of cars that no longer run after an EMP... Such as a Toyota Corolla..

I'll just siphon the gas out of their tanks...

 

[Jeff Allen]

That's an interesting report. You may have gotten a "good" Tesla. I'm starting to get a number (not huge but noticeable) of bricked Teslas. Basically one or two cells go out in the pack and it won't recharge. I've actually had to do rescue charges on a few-model X's. Pull the grille off and there' a charge tit/receptacle there. Put a jump box to it and it will get your doors open but not much else.
Another thing I'm seeing is-delaminating main instrument panels; this is in all the Tesla models. That's an expensive fix.

Finally, seeing LOTS and LOTS of teslas pop up as total losses. The cars, when they get wrecked, end up in CoPart auctions with repair bills outstripping the value of the vehicle.

Well....there are many hundreds of thousands of Tesla's out in the wild...
And by "bricked", its helpful for readers here to understand there are different kinds of "dead" and if you have to use the port up front, you are charging the "12v" (technically 16v in the new models, the 12v batt has been replaced by a 16v lithium battery) unit that provides separate power to the cabin. The cabin battery is powered by the main pack. So, if someone lets the main pack go to zero, ....not bothering to charge a car sitting back in the lot for 6 months...those guys are used to taking a jump pack out there and bumping the main battery for ICE cars. Well, you can't just abandon batteries and expect them to work. Everyone here knows this. I have to keep tenders on my skid steer, my 4 wheeler, my old three wheeler and my genset. 24x7 because one of those things may not get used for a couple of months and the battery is no longer able to start them, so, tender is required.

And I'm curious, if the main pack can't charge, how did the previous owner get the car to the place it was sold? Sounds like the car sat...and sat....got driven on and off transport...sat some more and trouble!
The only way I know to protect yourself from a used EV that may have been seriously abused is to use a recurrent report. Every day recurrent tracks my battery usage. If I ever take it to zero my recurrent report will show this. (allowing the main pack to go to zero is serious abuse and you should not buy that car, ever. I know youtube idiots run their teslas to zero then charge and go "see, works great!", what they aren't saying is they probably just took a few hundred charge cycles out of the battery).

Alphaman, you are the only car expert I know. How do you think the used market is going to integrate with BEV's? The sales figures for Teslas are ramping like crazy with increased production here at home, but I don't even view that as the chief bellwether, its overseas that BEV's are just literally taking over...that clearly is coming here. The sales figures out of Norway for 2022 showed 87.6% of all new cars were BEV's, 6.3% were gas, 2.5% were diesel and 8.3% were hybrids. The rest of Europe is showing a very similar trend. In 5 years BEV's will be flooding the used market here....

How will used car dealers protect their investment?

If I was selling used cars and thought I could make money on BEV's the first thing I would do is install charging at my shop and make sure every BEV gets topped off once a month and after every test drive to avoid the "brick" condition you are encountering! Thats a hard learned lesson for your customer....
As to crash worthiness, Teslas are among the safest cars in the world for the occupants. That being said, between the castings that make them cheap to build and the battery, any crash big enough to damage that battery pack is probably gonna total the car. Frankly, I was shocked that it only cost 1200 a year to provide full coverage on mine...virtually the same as my POS Ram.

Its pretty amazing you ran into a motor controller failure....those are unheard of on MY's but I've done zero research on "X's" as they are WAY more than I'm spending on transport! (and since virtually all cars go to zero at 16 years, too much depreciation!)

Thank you for weighing in on this thread, I appreciate your experience very much!!!
J

 

[sunflowerstation]

You were able to able to make the needed adjustments to your current electric service to accomodate your EV. And guestimated the additional cost of an electrician if one was not "handy" enough to perform their own ugrades. I'm guessing that cost may differ as well, as electrician service cost may vary by location.

Also, if one's home doesn't have a 100 amp service (some older homes are 50 amp), one would need to do an upgrade on their home service before considering the charging mechanism for an EV.

We will be interested, as well, to see what increase, if any will be to your electric bill. And how much you spend at electric charging stations while on the road. Not ALL of them are free.

My son wants a Tesla in the worst way. He lives at 9,000 feet in Colorado, and experiences numerous below 0 degree temps in the winter. I guess he'll find out...

 

[undead]

As promised...here is my long term review of the 2023 Tesla Model Y.

This thread is meant to be helpful to anyone who is considering a BEV, Hybrid or ICE vehicle...just to help you see my experiences. I'll do my best to let you know the good AND bad....especially the bad!!! When I experience something crappy with this big change, I'm putting it here as a warning to you! Also, good stuff will be noted and I'll put that here as information for you as well.

You HATE and DESPISE EV's? Ok, thats fine. Do you think anyone who drives a BEV is a communist parasite? Well, turn off your tv, its making you stupid. Please don't waste our time on this thread just bashing the tech. These are tools to me, very expensive tools. You hate tools, fine, please keep it to yourself. You have actual information about how tools have let you or a relative down? (as in, you have first hand knowledge of how BEV's suck, by all means, please share. Second hand "news" of how shitty BEV's are...please do not place on this thread. BEV's do not catch on fire more than ICE, the facts show quite the opposite. Please bring those lies up somewhere else, not here. ACTUAL negative YOU or friends YOU KNOW PERSONALLY are VERY WELCOME! "news" isn't! Its lies....everyone here should know this already....

Why did I leave ICE? My last ICE vehicle was a 2017 Ram 2500. It cost $16,000 in repairs to go 205,000. As a bonus, when gas is at $3.50 it also costs .212 per mile. Contrast that with my Tesla which costs right around .0308 per mile to charge at home, on the road charging costs vary, but roughly the same as a Toyota Corolla, so around .09 per mile. I will save over $9,000 the first year in fuel costs, which will pay for hotels....so actual cost for me will be very similar to the van, its just I'll have HVAC & a shitter and a shower where I sleep, which will be nice....but I'll be in hotels...which I'm not particularly fond of...trade offs...hotel is slightly better than van even at $150 a pop. Overall cost of ownership will be determined once I get it sold and I'll post here. I'll also contrast cost of ownership with what I would have bought (a Honda CRV or Toyota Rav 4) if the Tesla doesn't, work out. 5 year cost of ownership for this 50k car is identical for the average commuter as a 25k Corolla. And....the time savings of oil changes is an added bonus for me as it saves a Saturday a.m. every other month!

Make: Tesla
Model: 2023 Y
Build location: Fremont
Options: Dual Motor Long Range Variant, Silver Grey Metallic paint, 20" turbine wheels
Date of purchase: 4-29-2023
Cost of car: $54,630 Tax and Title: $3,839.10 Total: $58,469.10
Annual cost of full coverage insurance: $1,163

Buying experience: Wow, is this simple, just hop online and go through the purchase process....you could easily do this in 5 minutes...or you could leave the thing open and think about things for days, your choice. I originally ordered a white one, but after two months of waiting Tesla gave other purchasing options and my significant other liked the grey much better than the white...I really didn't care, but switched to the grey unit and now am glad I did, as it looks way less generic to me than the white....whatever, first world silliness right?

Delivery day: Since I opted for an "available car" it only took a couple of days after I switched to get a text giving me an option to pick up the car on the 28th or 29th. This narrow pick up window is really my only negative on delivery. Two days isn't much of an option when you are busy! However, this worked fine in my world, not sure how big a hassle it might have been to set up a different delivery day??? Anyway, I go to delivery, everything looked and worked fine...no weird panel gaps or bad paint or dents or anything wrong at all, the car was clean and spotless inside and out. The only protective stuff left was on the floor mats. So, I spent 45 minutes carefully looking over the car and setting it up and we were out of there. ZERO and I mean nothing, not a word about upselling us anything, zero pressure to do anything or buy anything. The entire experience was AS IT SHOULD BE! I have no idea how this could be made better! SOOOO different from all the stealerships we have had to deal with over the years!! Also, Tesla does not accept personal or business checks, so I had to get a cashiers check the day before pickup as my bank did not work with the payment system Tesla has.

So, for those who don't know, we serve customers over several states in the midwest, primarily IN and IL but I get out to WI, MI, OH, KY, TN and GA as well from time to time. I put on about 50,000 miles per year, so I'm absolutely an "edge case" for any sort of BEV transportation. I haul around about 300lbs of tools/test equipment.

So, after my first two weeks I'm a little north of 1,500 miles. I've learned a few things.

1. Autopilot is absolutely wonderful. Best thing ever for stop n go traffic. Car stops, I can deal with emails whatever...as soon as traffic starts moving, so does the car, now I'm back keeping an eye on things....but once things stop again, back dealing with the phone. Holy cow this is so nice and stress free! I just have to touch the steering wheel while the car is moving and just sit there and watch. No brakes, no gas...just sit there and make sure the car follows and stops properly, which it so far, always has. For regular highway driving I just sit there and keep an eye on the road...holding the steering wheel. Plenty of time to gawk about, I'm seeing things around me I never noticed before as now I have time to just kind of relax....almost like a passenger, but, not quite. I still pay attention, and if you fail to pay fairly close attention, the car will start aggressively nagging you, but hey, its NOT ready to be ignored anyway, so that is fine. I'd say the car takes 75% of the stress/energy/work out of driving down the highway.

2. Charging time for short (under 200 miles each way) is not an issue. First off, every day when I leave the warehouse I have a full tank. MOST of our work is within 100 mile radius. Roughly 8 out of 10 days on average. So, 8 out of 10 days there is no charging whatsoever taking place away from the warehouse (used to be a gas station stop every other day minimum). So, those other two days are going to totally suck, right? Well, day 1 had me out at 150 one way, so when I left the hospital the nav routed me to a charger right on my way (it was at a Casey's gas station). I pull in and start charging, but needed to pee, so unlike fuel stations where you have to wait while filling...not so, just plug in and leave! So, I get back and was planning on spending a few minutes with email and the ten minute charge was done already! Well, I was like, hey, I still have to do email..so I sat and charged another ten minutes just because I needed time to deal with email...so really, zero minutes "waiting"...

Charge two. Had to work Peoria, IL which is 180 miles one way. So, nav had me at a charger in Bloomington, IL for 15 minutes. I wanted to stay a little longer because I wanted to go to Peoria, then get back to Champaign to charge there. So the charger is at a Meijer, I plug in and go in to pee, I get inside and remember I needed "x" so I do my business and walk back to the car to get my wallet. Holy crap, I went from 26% to 54% in that time! Yikes, I need to go! So I walk back into Miejer and grab "x", get back to the car and I'm at 78% so I just unplug and go....zero wait time. I work the account and get back to Champaign and stop to charge right off the interstate. Again, the charge was done long before I could get off email and texts....so I ended up back at the warehouse with 25% charge...my concerns that charging would make my 2 in 10 road trip days bad...has so far been overly cautious....really zero issue. On a longer road trip I think charging will be more of an issue, as in waiting, but for under 400 miles its really a zero issue as you have to pee anyway.... Of note: There are two DC fast charging options in my area, 150kw and 250kw. The 250 at Bloomington, IL was INSANELY fast....just crazy fast, 150 miles of range in roughly 15 minutes.....

3. This is the quietest and overall nicest car I've ever had the privilege of driving or owning. But dang, its a 50k car, so it should be nice! My previous nicest car was a 2015 Ford Fusion Titanium (38k at the time), this is in a whole different league IMO...and my daughter still has that car, so I haven't "forgotten"...the tech was just garbage and overall nowhere near as nice as the Tesla.

4. One pedal driving is absolutely the bomb!!! I LOVE it!!! Push down...zooomy...let up...slows...let up a lot...slows fast...push down far...go very zooom. Forever I've hated putting fuel energy in...than having to scrub off my precious fuel with friction brakes...no more! Big hill? No problem, just lift back. Stop n go traffic? No problem! Regen just puts the energy back in the battery! Holy cow batman, sitting at stop lights without having to push any pedals is a very comfortable rest! Plus the thing dings at me when the light turns green...sure do like that!

5. No key...just my phone. Car locks when I leave. Lets me in when I walk up to it. Its just so....easy.... I put the thing in park and it moves the steering wheel out of the way and move the seat so its easy in/out. I put it in D and everything just goes to where I previously put it. I know all "nice" cars do this...I've just never owned one before, lol. I open the door and sit down and its just ready to go...fast and easy. I press the brake and move the stalk...off we go....

How would I describe this car after only two weeks?

1 word: smooth
2 words: smooth, quiet
3 words: smooth quiet FAST

Wow, is it fast...and its not the "fast" version!!! This is the 0-60 in 4.8 seconds version....which is faster than every standard corvette ever made until 1996 when they got down to 4.7 seconds. And...for a 55 year old I've just never experienced anything like it...just instant...and at any speed. Zero...zoom. 55....zoom. Merging onto an highway? Yeah, before you get to the highway...LONG before you get to it you can be far exceeding the highway speed limit if you wanted to.

Unless you have a ton of experience in very fast cars, this car will blow you away with just how much quicker it is than everything else you have ever owned. And the fast variant is 0-60 in 3.8! This is just a grocery getter...not exactly a super car! The 110k variants get to 60 in 2 seconds.... I've never driven any other BEV other than a Tesla...but Teslas are damn fast.

Bottom line for a typical commuter: If your commute is under 115 miles one way...this thing will work flawlessly for you with ZERO charging away from home in any weather....your fuel costs will plummet and your drive will be easier. No more gas stations....and, if you are stuck in a major multi hour traffic jam, unlike an ICE vehicle, you will use very little power. You are much less likely to "run out of gas" in a BEV vs an ICE vehicle in a multi hour traffic jam.

Negatives:

1. You absolutely have to put a charging station in your garage. Only an idiot would buy an BEV without the ability to charge at home. Or a cultist who thinks they are saving the planet or some other such nonsense. If you are considering doing this, remember, NEC rates systems for 100% use no longer than 3 hours. DO NOT put in a 50A breaker for your 48A charging system! You need at least an 80A breaker and wires to run 48A continuously! I put in a 70A breaker with #4cu and charge at 30A. Even at 30A its usually done charging by 0200hrs. If I was in a pinch I could run the 48A for 3hrs no problem.

2. The autopilot does "phantom brake" on occasion. It seems the most likely time this will happen is when there are very distinct shadows on the road, and I suspect the software interprets the shadows as a obstacle of some sort. I spent a lot of time researching this purchase, so no surprise to me, but YOU might be alarmed when the car suddenly starts to brake....a simple application of foot to juice pedal over rides the tech. Also, there is a spot in my town where the software interprets a lane incorrectly. This is standard (read free) autopilot, NOT self driving, which I have not installed. In the at least 1,000 miles I've used auto pilot this has happened maybe 3 times.

3. For the average person, road trips could be a problem. As a prepper...I'm already a planner and preparer...people who do not like to plan, will absolutely not do well with charging! You have to pay attention to your route and state of charge. You have to THINK...this is absolutely something many Americans just cannot do. For a non thinker to take any BEV, even one super easy to charge like a Tesla on a road trip is a recipe for disaster, especially off the main highways. There are 45,000 Tesla superchargers in America, but there are at least some hundreds of thousands of gas stations....this is a change from ICE where there is a "charger" or 4 off of every highway exit and just everywhere...in my town there are 5 fuel stations but zero charging stations for example. For people who can think though...this is not an issue at all...in fact, its way less of an issue than I feared.

4. There is no spare tire and really no way to have one if you carry tools. This sucks IMO. Time will tell if this is just bad, or terrible. I have stocked the vehicle with a little air compressor and plenty of slime and plugs.... which to be fair, is all I've needed for at least the last 2,000,000 miles. I've used a spare...once...but if I would have had the little air compressor, plugs and slime I wouldn't have needed it. I buy good tires and replace them when worn to the bottom of legal limits. I do not run them anywhere near bald, ever.

After a few months I'll post a much more detailed treatise on charging.

IF you are planning on road trips with ANYTHING other than a Tesla...the public non-Tesla charging network is garbage. Just wait. Don't do it. If you want to road trip, just save yourself the misery and buy a Tesla, then you will have zero issues. Maybe in 5 years you can road trip a ford or gm...but not today. See youtube if you doubt me.

Anyone with questions, please chime in!

Ok, thats my quickie review after only two weeks. I will continue to update this thread over time, especially with long road trip info. I cannot fathom going back to ICE....this is so much more convenient for me and the car is just awesome....as a road tripping driver going long distances, the Autopilot is just awesome in my life....would HATE to have to lose that feature.

J

actually GM EV's will charge using Tesla stations

 

[TedM1911]

I kinda think about EV drivers/owners the same way I do people who drive ICE cars by themselves wearing a cloth mask.