TECH Lockheed C-130 Hercules airlifter modified with the addition of rocket engines

PanBear

Veteran Member
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night driver

ESFP adrift in INTJ sea
That tech has been around a long time.

The Herc that was supposed to go in and rescue hostages in Tehran way back when was destroyed because of improper JATO usage.
NOT the one that didn't have the sand screens installed, right?

Neva mind...
 
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llknp

Senior Member
Love this story. True or not, makes me laugh....
The Arizona Highway Patrol were mystified when they came upon a pile of smoldering wreckage embedded in the side of a cliff rising above the road at the apex of a curve. The metal debris resembled the site of an airplane crash, but it turned out to be the vaporized remains of an automobile. The make of the vehicle was unidentifiable at the scene. The folks in the lab finally figured out what it was, and pieced together the events that led up to its demise.
It seems that a former Air Force sergeant had somehow got hold of a JATO (Jet Assisted Take-Off) unit. JATO units are solid fuel rockets used to give heavy military transport airplanes an extra push for take-off from short airfields.
Dried desert lakebeds are the location of choice for breaking the world ground vehicle speed record. The sergeant took the JATO unit into the Arizona desert and found a long, straight stretch of road. He attached the JATO unit to his car, jumped in, accelerated to a high speed, and fired off the rocket. The facts, as best as could be determined, are as follows:
The operator was driving a 1967 Chevy Impala. He ignited the JATO unit approximately 3.9 miles from the crash site. This was established by the location of a prominently scorched and melted strip of asphalt. The vehicle quickly reached a speed of between 250 and 300 mph and continued at that speed, under full power, for an additional 20-25 seconds. The soon-to-be pilot experienced G-forces usually reserved for dog-fighting F-14 jocks under full afterburners.
The Chevy remained on the straight highway for approximately 2.6 miles (15-20 seconds) before the driver applied the brakes, completely melting them, blowing the tires, and leaving thick rubber marks on the road surface. The vehicle then became airborne for an additional 1.3 miles, impacted the cliff face at a height of 125 feet, and left a blackened crater 3 feet deep in the rock.
Most of the driver’s remains were not recovered; however, small fragments of bone, teeth, and hair were extracted from the crater, and fingernail and bone shards were removed from a piece of debris believed to be a portion of the steering wheel.
 

ComCamGuy

Remote Paramedical pain in the ass
That tech has been around a long time.

The Herc that was supposed to go in and rescue hostages in Tehran way back when was destroyed because of improper JATO usage.

They actually built three for the mission.


ROBINS AIR FORCE BASE, Ga. -- At first glance, the C-130 looks just like any other. Upon closer inspection though, this plane is a whole lot different. In fact, it's one of a kind.

"This aircraft was built for one mission and one mission only," said Larry Layfield Air Force Life Cycle Management Center support contractor.

The Iran hostage crisis was a diplomatic crisis between Iran and the United States. Fifty two American diplomats and citizens were held hostage for 444 days after a group of Iranian students belonging to the Muslim Student Followers of the Imam's Line, took over the U.S. Embassy in Tehran.

In April 1980, President Jimmy Carter ordered Desert Claw - a U.S. armed forces operation - to attempt to end the Iran hostage crisis by rescuing the hostages in April of 1980.

The mission failed, and a new secret mission was put in place - design a plane that could land and take off in a 600-foot area inside a soccer stadium in Tehran.

Layfield was a C-130 equipment specialist who was the only one at Robins who worked on the secret project. The rest of the team was based at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Ohio. It was a collaboration between the Navy, Air Force and Lockheed in Marietta, Georgia.

The project, called Operation Credible Sport, started in July 1980, and the aircraft started test flights in September.

"It had 16 rockets on it," Layfield said.

The rockets were used as thrusts for the STOL, short takeoff and landing. The rockets assisted with braking to stop the plane. The rockets were acquired from the Navy.

There were three of the YMC-130H models made. The first set records for takeoffs and landings in less than 600 feet. The trials took place at Wagner and Duke Field in Florida near Eglin Air Force Base. The plane would be rolled into the hangar when the Russian satellites would orbit overhead to keep the plane from being spotted.

To make all of the modifications from concept to test flights in a few short months, the secret mission was a tribute to what can be done during emergencies.

"This shows what we're capable of when we're under pressure," Layfield said.

During its last run, an error was made with the upper rockets and the plane crashed, breaking its right wing. The avionics were mostly recovered, and the plane that currently sits at Robins bears the same tail number of the one that crashed.

Many of the parts on the planes were borrowed from multiple sources and were not in the Air Force inventory, Layfield said, like the Navy rockets and the brakes.

The hostages were freed Jan. 21, 1981, after then President Ronald Reagan was inaugurated.

That ended the mission for the aircraft and the decision was to return one of the planes to its former use while the third plane with the tail number of the first plane 74-1686, ended up at the Museum of Aviation in 1987.

After a time, the YMC-130H model was brought from the museum to Robins, to be used as a battle-damage training plane.

Just a quick walk around the plane shows the subtle differences like the rocket mounts on either side of the fuselage.

Inside, there are strengthened structural modifications made to withstand the hard takeoffs and landings.

Master Sgt. David Ruehling got involved when he was put in charge of the 402nd AMXG readiness section. The unit creates damage on an aircraft to help train maintainers.

Ruehling recognized the plane's significance and what significance it had in the Air Force. Without an intervention, the plane will certainly deteriorate. His hope is that the plane will get the recognition it's worthy of.

"This definitely deserves a place in a museum," he said.
 

shane

Has No Life - Lives on TB
That tech has been around a long time.

The Herc that was supposed to go in and rescue hostages in Tehran way back when was destroyed because of improper JATO usage.
I'd met "Chargin' Charlie" Beckwith, creator of Delta Force and commander of Iran hostage rescue mission,
back in early 84. He'd left the service & had then a private international security company, and was making
bid with Reagan admin to get some of the security contracts for upcoming LA Olympics. I was factory rep for
Silent Partner body armor and we were trying to work with him any which way to get a piece of the action, too.
Got to know and visit with him and some of his SOG and Delta Force people who'd either stayed with him or
had joined him later after leaving service, too.

He said they'd had their planning & execution of hostage rescue mission hijacked by last minute Carter admin
insistence that all the service branches should get an active role in it somehow, too, for later bragging rights...

Panic Early, Beat the Rush!
- Shane
 

Dozdoats

On TB every waking moment
Speaking of the Iran rescue mission - please cast a thought toward one Richard J Meadows. We should be worthy pf such men ...

See the material at the link below for more.
=============


Richard J. Meadows
June 16, 1931 - July 29, 1995


Major Richard J. "Dick" Meadows' exploits were legendary. Joining the Army at the age of 15 in 1947, he was assigned to the 456th Field Artillery Battalion, 82nd Airborne Division. Volunteering for Korea, he subsequently deployed with the 674th Field Artillery Battalion, 187th Airborne Regimental Combat Team. He returned, age 20, as the youngest master sergeant in the Korean War.
Following service in Korea, he volunteered for duty with Special Forces in 1953, and spent the rest of his career in Special Forces or Ranger units, helping to establish and develop many of the organizations and programs we know today. During his remarkable career in Special Operations, he would contribute to the creation of Army Special Forces, Military Free Fall Parachuting, the Son Tay raid, the establishment of SFOD-Delta, and the attempted rescue of hostages in Iran, to name just a few.

In 1960, he was selected as the first NCO to participate in an exchange program between the 7th Special Forces Group and the British 22nd Special Air Service Regiment. While there, he completed the SAS selection course, performed for 12 months as a Troop Commander (a position normally filled by a Captain), and participated in numerous training exercises and an actual operation in Oman against terrorists and gun-smugglers. So impressive was his performance, he became one of the first two foreigners ever to receive the British SAS wings.

During the Vietnam era, he teamed with Colonel "Bull" Simons on Operation WHITE STAR in Laos, and served with the Military Assistance Command Vietnam-Studies and Observation Group, better known as MACV-SOG, in Vietnam. During two combat tours, he led more than two dozen clandestine missions behind enemy lines into North Vietnam and Laos, calling in air strikes on the Ho Chi Minh trail, capturing North Vietnamese soldiers for interrogation, and engaging in close quarter combat during commando raids. And throughout it all he never lost a man. Because of his extraordinary combat record, he was awarded a battlefield commission directly to Captain.

Later, again teamed with "Bull" Simons, he subsequently helped organize and lead the attempt to rescue U.S. POWs from the Son Tay prison camp near Hanoi. Commanding the ground assault force, he deliberately crash-landing his helicopter-borne assault forces inside the camp compound, only to find that the flawlessly executed mission was too late to rescue the prisoners.

He retired from the Army in 1977 as the Training Officer/Deputy Commander, Jungle Phase, U.S. Army Ranger School, Camp Rudder, Eglin Air Force Base, Florida. However, his career in Special Operations was far from over. As a civilian he was an advisor in the formation of the Delta Force, and his most daring exploit probably came while working as a consultant to the Iran hostage crisis of 1980. Working undercover in Iran to scout the American embassy where the hostages were being held, and arrange transportation for the rescue force within Tehran, he was stranded when the mission was aborted. Alone, and with little more than his wits and courage to draw on, he was forced to make a harrowing escape from Iran.

Continuing in later years to selflessly serve his country, he spent much of the remainder of his life working against the illegal drug trade. At a ceremony posthumously awarding him the Presidential Citizen's Medal for Distinguished Service, it was said of him that he "quite literally established standards by which we measure all special operators -- now and in the future."

His military awards and decorations include the Distinguished Service Cross, the Silver Star (w/oak leaf cluster), Legion of Merit, Bronze Star (with V device for valor), Air Medal, Meritorious Service Medal, Joint Commendation Medal, and the Army Commendation Medal (w/two oak leaf clusters). He was also the recipient of the Combat Infantryman Badge, the Master Parachutist Badge, Glider Badge, Ranger and Special Forces Tabs, and SCUBA badge.
Dick Meadows was a professional who dedicated his life to a service of God, country and home; devoted himself to his duty, his comrades and his family; and established a standard of professional excellence by which all who follow in his footsteps shall be measured. He was, and in memory will forever remain..,
Richard J. Meadows,
Special Forces Soldier!
Other Comments:
Military Figure. A career U.S. Army Ranger, Green Beret, and Studies and Observations Group (SOG) commander, Major Richard J. 'Dick' Meadows achieved legendary fame with his worldwide covert operations and military service. His record spans the globe from Asia to the Middle East and even South America. Born in Covington Virginia, Dick Meadows enlisted in the U.S. Army at 15 years old. Advancing quickly in rank, he made Master Sergeant by age 20 and was assigned to the 187th Regimental Combat Team in Korea. By the time the Vietnam War heated up, he was an experienced and well seasoned combat veteran. General William Westmoreland awarded him the first battlefield commission of the Vietnam War. Meadows led more than two dozen missions behind enemy lines, four into North Vietnam and the rest in Laos. He captured many North Vietnamese and Viet Cong soldiers and gathered valuable information for U.S. Intelligence. In 1970, he was a central figure, planner and key participant in an attempt to free American POW’s with the famous "Son Tay Raid". After retiring from the military in 1977, he was again called on to assist with the 1980 rescue attempt of U.S. hostages in Iran. Meadows infiltrated into Tehran posing as an Irish businessman. His mission was to reconnoiter the captured American Embassy (where the hostages were being held) and forward tactical information to the U.S. rescue force. When the rescue operation unexpectedly collapsed in the desert, he narrowly evaded capture and escaped out of Iran. Dick Meadows was, and still is, considered the “soldier’s soldier” in most military circles. His career garnished a multitude of decorations including the Presidential Citizens Medal awarded posthumously by President Clinton. An 8 foot bronze statue of Major Meadows now stands on the Meadows Memorial Parade Field located at Fort Bragg, North Carolina.
 

AlfaMan

Has No Life - Lives on TB
They actually built three for the mission.


ROBINS AIR FORCE BASE, Ga. -- At first glance, the C-130 looks just like any other. Upon closer inspection though, this plane is a whole lot different. In fact, it's one of a kind.

"This aircraft was built for one mission and one mission only," said Larry Layfield Air Force Life Cycle Management Center support contractor.

The Iran hostage crisis was a diplomatic crisis between Iran and the United States. Fifty two American diplomats and citizens were held hostage for 444 days after a group of Iranian students belonging to the Muslim Student Followers of the Imam's Line, took over the U.S. Embassy in Tehran.

In April 1980, President Jimmy Carter ordered Desert Claw - a U.S. armed forces operation - to attempt to end the Iran hostage crisis by rescuing the hostages in April of 1980.

The mission failed, and a new secret mission was put in place - design a plane that could land and take off in a 600-foot area inside a soccer stadium in Tehran.

Layfield was a C-130 equipment specialist who was the only one at Robins who worked on the secret project. The rest of the team was based at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Ohio. It was a collaboration between the Navy, Air Force and Lockheed in Marietta, Georgia.

The project, called Operation Credible Sport, started in July 1980, and the aircraft started test flights in September.

"It had 16 rockets on it," Layfield said.

The rockets were used as thrusts for the STOL, short takeoff and landing. The rockets assisted with braking to stop the plane. The rockets were acquired from the Navy.

There were three of the YMC-130H models made. The first set records for takeoffs and landings in less than 600 feet. The trials took place at Wagner and Duke Field in Florida near Eglin Air Force Base. The plane would be rolled into the hangar when the Russian satellites would orbit overhead to keep the plane from being spotted.

To make all of the modifications from concept to test flights in a few short months, the secret mission was a tribute to what can be done during emergencies.

"This shows what we're capable of when we're under pressure," Layfield said.

During its last run, an error was made with the upper rockets and the plane crashed, breaking its right wing. The avionics were mostly recovered, and the plane that currently sits at Robins bears the same tail number of the one that crashed.

Many of the parts on the planes were borrowed from multiple sources and were not in the Air Force inventory, Layfield said, like the Navy rockets and the brakes.

The hostages were freed Jan. 21, 1981, after then President Ronald Reagan was inaugurated.

That ended the mission for the aircraft and the decision was to return one of the planes to its former use while the third plane with the tail number of the first plane 74-1686, ended up at the Museum of Aviation in 1987.

After a time, the YMC-130H model was brought from the museum to Robins, to be used as a battle-damage training plane.

Just a quick walk around the plane shows the subtle differences like the rocket mounts on either side of the fuselage.

Inside, there are strengthened structural modifications made to withstand the hard takeoffs and landings.

Master Sgt. David Ruehling got involved when he was put in charge of the 402nd AMXG readiness section. The unit creates damage on an aircraft to help train maintainers.

Ruehling recognized the plane's significance and what significance it had in the Air Force. Without an intervention, the plane will certainly deteriorate. His hope is that the plane will get the recognition it's worthy of.

"This definitely deserves a place in a museum," he said.


Thank you for posting this; I was going to post the location of the remaining herky bird but you beat me to it. The mods on the plane were pretty extensive, enough so it couldn't have been modded back to a regular H model and used in USAF service. The fuselage strakes weren't tacked on; they were part of the exterior cladding. The inside of the remaining bird is pretty interesting; the wing box and upper fuselage structure forward of the box look like one solid piece. Massively overengineered to take the stresses of forward firing rockets. The remaining bird probably has a 8G+ 6G- capability. Robins AFB's air museum is a great one to visit-tons of interesting stuff there and their storage lot out back always has something fun to look in as well.

Got chased off the cemetery overlooking Dobbins AFB around the time this plane was made; they were practicing loading 50+ people onboard a C-130 on the taxiway near the end of Runway 11 (highway 41 side). Two official types pulled up asking what we were doing; told us to leave. We left. We were still in high school; plane watching was what we did on Saturdays. Saw a lot of neat stuff come in and out of that place.

One poster mentioned Howard Hughes had something to do with the plane. Nope, sorry.
That's a GELAC built plane, built by many, many proud GA rednecks. Lots of my friend's fathers worked there when we were growing up, building the Herky Bird, C-141, and the C-5.
 

ComCamGuy

Remote Paramedical pain in the ass
Thank you for posting this; I was going to post the location of the remaining herky bird but you beat me to it. The mods on the plane were pretty extensive, enough so it couldn't have been modded back to a regular H model and used in USAF service. The fuselage strakes weren't tacked on; they were part of the exterior cladding. The inside of the remaining bird is pretty interesting; the wing box and upper fuselage structure forward of the box look like one solid piece. Massively overengineered to take the stresses of forward firing rockets. The remaining bird probably has a 8G+ 6G- capability. Robins AFB's air museum is a great one to visit-tons of interesting stuff there and their storage lot out back always has something fun to look in as well.

Got chased off the cemetery overlooking Dobbins AFB around the time this plane was made; they were practicing loading 50+ people onboard a C-130 on the taxiway near the end of Runway 11 (highway 41 side). Two official types pulled up asking what we were doing; told us to leave. We left. We were still in high school; plane watching was what we did on Saturdays. Saw a lot of neat stuff come in and out of that place.

One poster mentioned Howard Hughes had something to do with the plane. Nope, sorry.
That's a GELAC built plane, built by many, many proud GA rednecks. Lots of my friend's fathers worked there when we were growing up, building the Herky Bird, C-141, and the C-5.

My first assigned airframe as aircrew was the C-141b. They were supposed to be around another twenty years but Desert Storm and ten more years of wartime maximum effort broke their backs and forced an early retirement. They all went to static display or the boneyard. The wheels barely stopped turning on their arrival when the giant claw chewed them up for scrap
 

ComCamGuy

Remote Paramedical pain in the ass
An empty 141 could beat an F4 to 10000 feet from a standing start. They were a hell of an airplane and are missed
 

et2

TB Fanatic
Love this story. True or not, makes me laugh....
The Arizona Highway Patrol were mystified when they came upon a pile of smoldering wreckage embedded in the side of a cliff rising above the road at the apex of a curve. The metal debris resembled the site of an airplane crash, but it turned out to be the vaporized remains of an automobile. The make of the vehicle was unidentifiable at the scene. The folks in the lab finally figured out what it was, and pieced together the events that led up to its demise.
It seems that a former Air Force sergeant had somehow got hold of a JATO (Jet Assisted Take-Off) unit. JATO units are solid fuel rockets used to give heavy military transport airplanes an extra push for take-off from short airfields.
Dried desert lakebeds are the location of choice for breaking the world ground vehicle speed record. The sergeant took the JATO unit into the Arizona desert and found a long, straight stretch of road. He attached the JATO unit to his car, jumped in, accelerated to a high speed, and fired off the rocket. The facts, as best as could be determined, are as follows:
The operator was driving a 1967 Chevy Impala. He ignited the JATO unit approximately 3.9 miles from the crash site. This was established by the location of a prominently scorched and melted strip of asphalt. The vehicle quickly reached a speed of between 250 and 300 mph and continued at that speed, under full power, for an additional 20-25 seconds. The soon-to-be pilot experienced G-forces usually reserved for dog-fighting F-14 jocks under full afterburners.
The Chevy remained on the straight highway for approximately 2.6 miles (15-20 seconds) before the driver applied the brakes, completely melting them, blowing the tires, and leaving thick rubber marks on the road surface. The vehicle then became airborne for an additional 1.3 miles, impacted the cliff face at a height of 125 feet, and left a blackened crater 3 feet deep in the rock.
Most of the driver’s remains were not recovered; however, small fragments of bone, teeth, and hair were extracted from the crater, and fingernail and bone shards were removed from a piece of debris believed to be a portion of the steering wheel.

Dumbass ... should have left his foot off the brake.
 

AlfaMan

Has No Life - Lives on TB
My first assigned airframe as aircrew was the C-141b. They were supposed to be around another twenty years but Desert Storm and ten more years of wartime maximum effort broke their backs and forced an early retirement. They all went to static display or the boneyard. The wheels barely stopped turning on their arrival when the giant claw chewed them up for scrap

Thank you for your service sir!

Chopping up the 141s was the most incredibly stupid things our military leadership EVER did. Those planes could have gone through a SLEP and still providing useful service today. Instead, we have the garbage C-17's. C-130s with jets and weak wing boxes is all those junkers are. The military didn't look at the C-133 when they had McDonnel Douglas build the C-17. Like the C-17 the 133's had weak wings as well. Political manuvering killed the 141s. At least the NASA C-141 is still flying.

Lockheed builds one hellaciously good aircraft
 

ComCamGuy

Remote Paramedical pain in the ass
They were worn out. They were so broke they couldn’t even do airdrop with the ramp open due to cracks in so many places. Yes, they could have poured money into them, but it would have been more per plane than new 17s. Monetarily unfeesable. They should have bought a Crapton more 17s. It’s good for what they designed it for, and hauls more pallet spaces than the 141 (by a c130 worth, 18 vs 13 for the 141)

They should have kept the 747s they were buying for the day to day cargo hauling or bought mor KC10s (my second assigned airframe) and left the 17 for the stragtegic and tactical end of things. Until the 17 finally got qualified, the C-5 had to take over the Special Operations Low Level mission. Some of the first crew dropping into Afghanistan were dropped by a C-5 low level nap of the earth on NVGs. Hand flown, not computer. Along canyons within 1-1.5 wingspans from the ground and sidewalls. Look up some of the footage of the fighters in Star Wars Canyon, then think about doing it at night in a C-5 there is also a spec ops KC135 group as well. Last of the navigatorsoutside true spec ops
 
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Sneaker 11

RECONDO
Thanks to all of you who posted..........fascinating stuff. I had some ancillary contact with some of the comments. I worked with an old CNC programmer who had a hand in developing the JATO on the C-130s mentioned. He told me of the hard landing that destroyed the one air frame.

The post about Maj Dick Meadows and his participation with the raid on Son Tay brought back old memories. I have a friend who was crew chief on one of the helos and was awarded a unit citation for it. Also, regarding the same mission, another friend was a Marine sniper and his small assembled unit trained in CONUS for the mission. They actually built the village to train in. I can't remember all of the details, but I remember they would have to secure the site every time a Soviet sat went over the area. As for me, I was nearing the end of my tour when a TS memo came down to our Ranger unit. I would have to extend my tour 6 months, but signed anyway. What is ironic about this we all live withing 150 miles of each other in small town Nebraska, and all ended up serving together in an USAR unit in Omaha. Small world.

11
 

Wildweasel

F-4 Phantoms Phorever
Thank you for your service sir!

Chopping up the 141s was the most incredibly stupid things our military leadership EVER did. Those planes could have gone through a SLEP and still providing useful service today. Instead, we have the garbage C-17's. C-130s with jets and weak wing boxes is all those junkers are. The military didn't look at the C-133 when they had McDonnel Douglas build the C-17. Like the C-17 the 133's had weak wings as well. Political manuvering killed the 141s. At least the NASA C-141 is still flying.

Lockheed builds one hellaciously good aircraft

The C-141 fleet was worn out beyond repair when they finally went to the boneyard. VietNam flew the wings off the fleet and required wing box replacement before most of the planes were ten years old. Desert Storm flew the wings off the planes again and new wing boxes were needed again.

When I retired from the Air Force in 1995 we had several C-141s at my base that were already grounded for wing problems and the rest of the planes on base were in bad shape. Besides wing problems the 141s were developing cracks around the windshield frames due to flew associated with pressurization cycles.

And there were structural problems in the tail structures that had bee caused by adding air refueling capability to the 141. The plane was not designed with any consideration for the tail being exposed to jet wash from a tanker flying right in front of the 141 and the tails were moving around A LOT when behind a KC-135.

A KC-10 was even worse because the tail engine blew right on the horizontal stabilizer, forcing a 141 crew to fly with a lot of nose-up input just to maintain level flight behind a KC-10. Not a healthy situation with 5-10 feet of your plane directly under the tanker.

By 1995 the C-141 fleet was flying with weight restrictions due to the wing problems, altitude restrictions due to the windshield frame cracking and speed restrictions due to the tail problems. To repair those problems you'd basically have to put new cockpit section, tail section and wings on the same old fuselage. Much more cost effective to buy all new aircraft that carry more, further, at less cost per mile.

Oh and that NASA C-141 hasn't flown for a decade or more and last I heard was sitting at Moffett Field for sale as scrap.
 

ComCamGuy

Remote Paramedical pain in the ass

NASA Put Their Only C-141 Up For Sale But No One Bought It

The aircraft was first put up for auction back on August 10th, 2018. By the end of the auction period two weeks later, the high bid was only $8000. The minimum bid was not met. The aircraft is not flyable but surprisingly most of the cockpit looks to still be intact from the photos. The winning bidder would have had to submit a plan to remove the aircraft within 60 days and would have had to gain approval by the DoD as well.


The KAO was retired in 1995 and is viewable at Moffett Field, although it is no longer airworthy.[2] It has been succeeded by a Boeing 747-based airborne observatory equipped with a larger aperture telescope, the Stratospheric Observatory for Infrared Astronomy (SOFIA). SOFIA completed its first test flight on April 26, 2007[7] and its telescope saw first light on May 26, 2010.[8] Initial "routine" science observation flights began in December 2010[9] and the observatory is slated for full capability by 2014 with about 100 flights per year.[10][11]
 

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AlfaMan

Has No Life - Lives on TB
The C-141 fleet was worn out beyond repair when they finally went to the boneyard. VietNam flew the wings off the fleet and required wing box replacement before most of the planes were ten years old. Desert Storm flew the wings off the planes again and new wing boxes were needed again.

When I retired from the Air Force in 1995 we had several C-141s at my base that were already grounded for wing problems and the rest of the planes on base were in bad shape. Besides wing problems the 141s were developing cracks around the windshield frames due to flew associated with pressurization cycles.

And there were structural problems in the tail structures that had bee caused by adding air refueling capability to the 141. The plane was not designed with any consideration for the tail being exposed to jet wash from a tanker flying right in front of the 141 and the tails were moving around A LOT when behind a KC-135.

A KC-10 was even worse because the tail engine blew right on the horizontal stabilizer, forcing a 141 crew to fly with a lot of nose-up input just to maintain level flight behind a KC-10. Not a healthy situation with 5-10 feet of your plane directly under the tanker.

By 1995 the C-141 fleet was flying with weight restrictions due to the wing problems, altitude restrictions due to the windshield frame cracking and speed restrictions due to the tail problems. To repair those problems you'd basically have to put new cockpit section, tail section and wings on the same old fuselage. Much more cost effective to buy all new aircraft that carry more, further, at less cost per mile.

Oh and that NASA C-141 hasn't flown for a decade or more and last I heard was sitting at Moffett Field for sale as scrap.

I would have pumped the money into the 141's and left the C-17 on the drawing board where it belongs.
What the AF should have done is build a larger fuselage cross section from the start; I think if they had done that those planes would have been upgraded and still flying today.
And the KC-10-nice refuelling section onboard (far nicer than the KC-135) is nice, but yeah jet wash would make an all flying tail do some fancy dancing...
Remember seeing the B models on the line once they came out of the plant before they hit the paint shop-rows of gold is what they looked at. There was a road you could cut around on the NAS Atlanta side "to go to the shopette" you see :) and get up close and personal (against the fence) to them. Those and LC-130's I remember seeing quite often. Remember seeing the stacks of skis for the LC's.

Didn't know about the NASA bird, thought it was still flying.
 

ComCamGuy

Remote Paramedical pain in the ass
In many ways the C-17 is a better bird, though it pains me to say so. If you stop thinking purely strategic airlift replacement for 141 and instead think tactical sized C-5 with the oversize capability, it becomes more palatable. I've seen 17s do some amazing things, in some places it shouldn't have. the 141 is kinda my first love, as the 130 is the wife's, but the only way to have made it work would have been to reopen the assembly line and make more new ones and that capability was gone. In some ways we might have been better reopening the C% line and making an upgraded model of it rather than the 17 or trying to glue the 141 back together. The biggest issue is using the tactical and strategic birds as trash haulers. They were going to buy a bunch of 747s to haul the non tactical and strategic freight before they got the 17 approved. If they would have done that or bought a crapload of KC-10s and used them for the freight mission, they would have increased the tanker fleet and not wasted the airdrop and tac birds hauling freight from airport to airport. KC-10 has 27 pallet positions. That's a lot of cargo. The C5 has 36, but can do oversized and austere. The 747 cargo has 30 pallet positions on the main floor plus the cargo hold. We wore out the 141 flying 12 full size and one half size cargo space around base to base. It was lack of foresight and political will.
 

Wildweasel

F-4 Phantoms Phorever
I would have pumped the money into the 141's and left the C-17 on the drawing board where it belongs.
What the AF should have done is build a larger fuselage cross section from the start; I think if they had done that those planes would have been upgraded and still flying today.
And the KC-10-nice refuelling section onboard (far nicer than the KC-135) is nice, but yeah jet wash would make an all flying tail do some fancy dancing...
Remember seeing the B models on the line once they came out of the plant before they hit the paint shop-rows of gold is what they looked at. There was a road you could cut around on the NAS Atlanta side "to go to the shopette" you see :) and get up close and personal (against the fence) to them. Those and LC-130's I remember seeing quite often. Remember seeing the stacks of skis for the LC's.

Didn't know about the NASA bird, thought it was still flying.

I got to see most of the C-141Bs on their test flights after being stretched. They would fly their test missions before being painted and as part of the mission they usually came down to Moody AFB and shot a few approaches before heading back to Dobbins.

Have you checked out C-141Heaven? It's the "Everything C-141" website. C141Heaven Home Page
 

ComCamGuy

Remote Paramedical pain in the ass
Yup, recognize quite a few of the birds and the memories flood back whenever I go there
 
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