DISASTER It’s Official: Parts of California Are Too Wildfire-Prone To Insure

MinnesotaSmith

Membership Revoked
https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/201...ifornia-are-too-wildfire-prone-to-insure.html

It’s Official: Parts of California Are Too Wildfire-Prone To Insure
Posted on August 21, 2019 by Yves Smith

"Yves here. We’ve had quite the run of California stories, but this particular one is of the type where California is playing one of its prototypical roles of leading the rest of the US. Expect climate-change-induced inability to buy private sector home insurance to become more common. If governments don’t step in, that kills mortgages, so what comes next? Only all cash buys? Seller financing? And if property values in these areas decline, as they ought to, bye bye local budgets. Of course, you’ll see adaptations, like oldsters or other childless households willing to take up some of these properties, but it looks like a big realignment is slowing starting.

California is facing yet another real estate-related crisis, but we’re not talking about its sky-high home prices. According to newly released data, it’s simply become too risky to insure houses in big swaths of the wildfire-prone state.

Last winter when we wrote about home insurance rates possibly going up in the wake of California’s massive, deadly fires, the insurance industry representatives we interviewed were skeptical. They noted that the stories circulating in the media about people in forested areas losing their homeowners’ insurance was based on anecdotes, not data. But now, the data is in and it’s really happening: Insurance companies aren’t renewing policies areas climate scientists say are likely to burn in giant wildfires in coming years.

Between 2015 and 2018, the 10 California counties with the most homes in flammable forests saw a 177 percent increase in homeowners turning to an expensive state-backed insurance program because they could not find private insurance.

In some ways, this news is not surprising. According to a recent survey of insurance actuaries (the people who calculate insurance risks and premiums based on available data), the industry ranked climate change as the top risk for 2019, beating out concerns over cyber damages, financial instability, and terrorism. While having insurance companies on board with climate science is a good thing for, say, requiring cities to invest in more sustainable infrastructure, it’s bad news for homeowners who can’t simply pick up their lodgings and move elsewhere.

“We are seeing an increasing trend across California where people at risk of wildfires are being non-renewed by their insurer,” said California Insurance Commissioner Ricardo Lara in a statement. “This data should be a wake-up call for state and local policymakers that without action to reduce the risk from extreme wildfires and preserve the insurance market we could see communities unraveling.”

A similar dynamic is likely unfolding across many other Western states, according to reporting from the New York Times.

To understand the data coming out of California we can use my own family as an example: A few months after Grist published a story about how my parent’s neighborhood is trying to fortify itself against future forest fires, my mom’s insurer informed her and my stepfather that they’d need to get home insurance elsewhere. For two months they called one insurer after another, but no company would take their premiums. So they turned to the state program as the insurer of last resort — which costs about three times more than they’d been spending under their previous, private insurer.

My folks have spent a lot of money clearing trees and brush from around their house. They’ve covered the walls in hard-to-burn cement panels, and the roof with metal. But insurance risk maps don’t adjust for these improvements. Instead, insurance companies seem to have made the call that the changing climate, along with years of fire suppression, have made houses in the midst of California’s dry forests a bad bet, and therefore uninsurable.

“For us, because we’ve done good financial planning and our house is paid off, it’s just an extra expense,” said my mom, Gail Johnson Vaughan. “But we have friends who have no choice but to leave.”
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
This is not really a surprise, the insurance industry always does this when an area becomes costly to handle from floods, fire or in the case of medical malpractice insurance has too many lawsuits.

Wyoming had no insured OBGYN's one year and women had to be taken to Colorado to give birth when I was still in Colorado during the 1980s (and exploring if I wanted to be a midwife or not, I decided not to but I remember this).

In reality what the insurance companies usually really want is for the government/taxpayer to take over and "self-insure" or "back up" any place, thing or situation where they might really have to pay out something.

I used to work in The Worker's Compensation section for the State of Colorado in the 1980s and this pattern was already true back then.

That's why there is "Federal Flood Insurance," aka the Tax Payer subsidizes it.

When States (even large ones) threaten insurance companies for "pulling out" they do just that and leave the State sometimes ALL of them as happened in Wyoming, at least in terms of ensuring doctors delivering babies.

With large parts of California I also have to wonder if part of this is to allow some of the Big Companies that want to expand a cheap way to stage a cash landgrab, but more likely it is just insurance companies wanting a government bailout or they walk.

I mean they are for-profit companies so some of this is understandable but if they keep this up they could end up seeing a lot more government regulations as the SAME companies do in Europe; where if they want to provide insurance for anyone they have to insure everyone (though often they can charge more for some locations/situations).
 

West

Senior
All by design. The forest have been there forever. Drought has always been common in California and this was not as big of a problem in the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s and even the early 00s.

What changed is a hands off approach to forest management, from the private sector. Since the 50s the logging, milling, thinning, and replanting was a HUGE industry in these areas now they are gone, by mandate. That private industry is 99% gone and so is forest management that worked.

Oh well, its all gotta burn now, as by environmental design.
 

Sacajawea

Has No Life - Lives on TB
There are always threats to property, no matter what cycle of "climate change" the earth is in. Common sense can mitigate the danger of loss somewhat - but no matter what humans try to do, to "fail-safe" life... there just aren't any guarantees. I don't understand how the culture has forgotten that basic fact of life.

Re: insurance companies and properties in locations that are subject to those earth-risks on a regular basis... my overall opinion is that their business model was flawed from the initial design and then they took a wrong turn by trying to over-regulate conditions they would NOT insure, only because there are still stupid people in this world and even the most prudent of us make mistakes, get distracted, or incur accidents.

I've been thinking for some time now, that it needs to be considered that a person can self-insure. Instead of handing over control (and premiums) to insurance co's that dictate what will/won't be covered... find a way to invest or save the money to insure yourself. At least you'll be in control of what those accumulated premiums can be used for, right? (But in this financial environment, there's even more complexity of "risk" trying to do that.)
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
I don't think most people can "self-insure" to the degree needed to totally cover either national disasters or a serious health emergency - that said a return to the idea of "local" associations (very popular in the late 19th and early 20th century) that started out as "burial societies" that made sure the very poor had a suit, a coffin and a plot; later often with a small pension for the widow/underaged kids might be something to look at.

The logical way to organize that would be via what local credit unions still exist and/or community, charity, and religious groups.

Sadly, when these are tried they often get taken over either by a greedy local person or via a larger "fund" but I don't think that automatically has to happen.

But it might be worth looking into especially in places where the insurance companies simply abandon the populations.
 

West

Senior
The pine trees, fir trees, cedar trees and other trees/brush in the areas that the OP is about, need to be clear cut and burned in controlled piles now, because the wood is rotten and bug infested. Then the areas need to be slightly terraced, replanted, thinned and logged every 20 to 40 years, to have much safer well managed forest.

Trees grow old and die. Old growth is actually dead growth. Except for the Redwood stands and some Giant Sequoia stands that make up only 1% or less of Californias forest and have been protected since the 70s. The trees in the areas the op is talking about is trees/forest that is only good for fire now, since it's mostly unmanaged now. That is how those forest stay forest threw their natural way. Every 50+- years the forest needs to burn to get healthy before getting sick again
Dead/dieing/bug infested growth is not manageable inless you burn it.

It's all gotta burn now.
 

West

Senior
MSM (cbs) this morning news is talking about the Giant Sequoias in California and how some where alive during the Roman Impire, etc...

I muse they are talking about the Giant Sequoias, in California to make other news like the above OP a non issue, cause its for the trees!

MSM and our government schools systems have the majority thinking that California mountains is Giant Sequoias and Redwoods, when in fact they are less than a percentage and the only true old growth that have been protected since the 50s really and are not in danger from evil loggers.
 

Dobbin

Faithful Steed
So, by logical extension, a force of nature is too much for mankind to handle?

Is this a lack of will, or a lack of judgment?

Sign, sign, everywhere a sign
Blockin' out the scenery, breakin' my mind
Do this, don't do that, can't you read the sign?

But what constitutes "scenery?" What is scenic to one might be unbridled nature to another?

The originator of the Appalachian trail had an entirely different vision regarding the trail than what it has now become.

Published in October 1921, “An Appalachian Trail, A Project in Regional Planning” fleshed out Mackaye’s vision. More than just a walking path, his Appalachian Trail was to be a destination where East Coast city dwellers could go to get back to nature—a place for recreation, recuperation and as he ever so transcendentally put it, “to walk, to see and to see what you see.”
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/tales-from-the-appalachian-trail-34902244/

Instead, the Appalachian Trail has become in certain minds a "last bastion" of nature where the hand of man has been purposely and consciously removed. Derelict towns and settlements along its path have been "remediated" to the point where a hiker can find himself hazarded out of the reach of help - or beyond the rule of law.

Nature is a force, no doubt. And one to be reckoned with.

Owner says I am a close cousin to a force of nature.

Dobbin
 

ssonb

Senior Member
Self insure is just the catch phrase that means, Very large deductible!! you just have an underwriter that will cover the excess.....
 

hiwall

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Just one more example of Californians reaping what they sow.

No house insurance guarantees no loan.
 

subnet

Boot
But houses keep getting rebuilt off the Florida coast that get damaged by hurricanes...that makes total sense.
 

hiwall

Has No Life - Lives on TB
But houses keep getting rebuilt off the Florida coast that get damaged by hurricanes...that makes total sense.

And every house located in a flood plain that is destroyed by floods gets rebuilt - again and again.
 

20Gauge

TB Fanatic
I used to live where they are talking about. The entire area has evolved to burn and burn regularly. There are a number of plants that simply don't seed and grow without first burning. The idea of so many houses being built there is silly. It was silly 20 years ago and it is far worse now.

If you build in an area designed to be a fire pit, why are you surprised when things actually burn?
 

ssonb

Senior Member
I have a SIL that owns a home on Mexico beach Fl. the structure survived the last storm with just minor water intrusion, BUT any structure or enclosure that is under the stilts that raise the house "above" the storm surge level is not covered plus they have come to discover that Hurricanes tend to fill in the septic lines and tanks with sand and have to be totally replaced....Also not covered, can you say $$$$$$$$$$.
 

20Gauge

TB Fanatic
This is not really a surprise, the insurance industry always does this when an area becomes costly to handle from floods, fire or in the case of medical malpractice insurance has too many lawsuits.

Wyoming had no insured OBGYN's one year and women had to be taken to Colorado to give birth when I was still in Colorado during the 1980s (and exploring if I wanted to be a midwife or not, I decided not to but I remember this).

In reality what the insurance companies usually really want is for the government/taxpayer to take over and "self-insure" or "back up" any place, thing or situation where they might really have to pay out something.

I used to work in The Worker's Compensation section for the State of Colorado in the 1980s and this pattern was already true back then.

That's why there is "Federal Flood Insurance," aka the Tax Payer subsidizes it.

When States (even large ones) threaten insurance companies for "pulling out" they do just that and leave the State sometimes ALL of them as happened in Wyoming, at least in terms of ensuring doctors delivering babies.

With large parts of California I also have to wonder if part of this is to allow some of the Big Companies that want to expand a cheap way to stage a cash landgrab, but more likely it is just insurance companies wanting a government bailout or they walk.

I mean they are for-profit companies so some of this is understandable but if they keep this up they could end up seeing a lot more government regulations as the SAME companies do in Europe; where if they want to provide insurance for anyone they have to insure everyone (though often they can charge more for some locations/situations).

Yeah, but the "Federal Flood Insurance" program has been losing its subsidy over the last dozen or so years. Now it costs as much to insure for flood as it does fire here in SE Georgia. Insurance in general is quickly becoming as expensive as taxes. In a few cases it is now costing as much as the house payment.
 

TammyinWI

Talk is cheap
One expert, with a PhD, stated that 5G in Cali. is responsible for fires. I am not fabricating. I have also read more than once that 5G is "uninsurable."

Here is a related article.

Pending Government Immunity for Telecoms Uninsurable 5G Network?

New Swiss Re Report Dubs 5G “Next Asbestos”

Looks like the 5G network — touted as the next coming for the tech sector — could well share the fate of the Segway, that over-hyped, over-promised revolution in motorized personal transport that did not materialize. To the disappointment of many savvy Segway investors and inventor Dean Kamen, the gigantic motorized scooter ended up as a niche market for business, medical and military security programs, and tour groups unafraid to appear slothful.

Not surprisingly, insurance for operating the machine required special provisions, especially after the very public pratfalls of President George H.W. Bush and journalist Piers Morgan, and the tragic death in 2010 of Segway’s newest owner, James W. Heselden, after driving off a cliff.

In 1997, after attending briefings about the looming disasters posed by superstorms from global climate change at the Kyoto conference, Mutual of Omaha and Metropolitan Life Insurance refused to cover warming-related damage. Now the secondary insurance market is explicitly refusing to insure against damages from 5G and other electromagnetic fields (EMF), fearing the technology that has yet to be built could potentially wreak as much havoc for their industry as asbestos did more than three decades earlier when it bankrupted several corporations.

Legislative Remedies

In response to the growing unease of the insurance industry and pending lawsuits from more than 100 cities, companies are pouring millions into lobbying for 5G which will bring higher radiation levels to our front yards. In the U.S. the telecom industry is one of the most generous bi-partisan supporters of Congress and has the full support of Senators John Thune and Brian Schatz who have reintroduced federal streamlining legislation stripping local authority about the placement of 800 thousand new antennas, while some state legislation transfers liability from corporations to the government.

5G “Off the Leash”

These proposed bills constitute a blatant attempt to block local sayso and circumvent corporate responsibility while ignoring the growing evidence of risk. A recent report from Swiss Re Institute, the world’s second largest secondary insurance firm, has just dubbed the risk of 5G as “off the leash,” and “high to business,” reaffirming exclusionary policies for health or environmental damages from wireless products that began more than thirty years ago.

In effect, these proposed laws provide government bailouts and immunity for corporate 5G liabilities. As part of its 10K required report to its stockholders and the Federal Trade Commission, Crown Castle, a company installing new antennas nationwide conceded this year: “If a connection between radio frequency emissions and possible negative health effects were established, our operations, costs, or revenues may be materially and adversely affected. We currently do not maintain any significant insurance with respect to these matters.“

Swiss Re’s report notes a litany of issues. “Growing concerns about the health implications of 5G may lead to political friction and delay of implementation, and to liability claims. Heated international dispute over 5G contractors and potential for espionage or sabotage could affect international cooperation, and impact financial markets negatively. As the biological effects of EMF in general and 5G, in particular, are still being debated, potential claims for health impairments may come with a long latency.”

New Science Questions Standards

Adding fuel to that fire, recently Senior Scientist Esra Neufeld with the Swiss Foundation for Research on Information Technologies in Society (IT’IS) — a highly respected, government and industry supported non-profit, warned that current standards “do not prevent thermal damage of the skin” and “research is urgently needed” to assess their health risks. Indeed the capacity of 5G to induce a sensation that skin is afire is critical to the nonlethal weapons program of the Department of Defense that employs 5G frequencies to power Active Crowd Denial device. Researchers are now warning that 5G also could directly harm pollinating insects, and that current wireless radiation can damage trees, wildlife, birds, and bees.

There is a substantial body of science pinpointing hazards of wireless radiation. Most recently, the World Health Organization advisory group has called for a re-evaluation of a 2011 expert conclusion that found wireless radiation a “possible” carcinogen in light of the cancer findings of the National Toxicology Program and other new studies published since then. Several experts now consider wireless radiation to be an established human carcinogen.

Public confusion about this science is a credit to longstanding influence over authorities that has been thoroughly detailed in investigative reports. Legislative support for 5G streamlining and liability exemptions is also a credit to industry lobbyists. Not only are these bills a grave disservice to public health and the environment, but they also will place tremendous financial burdens on taxpayers to fund government bail-outs.

Show us the money?

Meanwhile, the hype about super-fast speeds and uninterrupted calls with 5G remains brilliant marketing razzmatazz that has yet to materialize even in several purported demonstrations. Last week, the BBC ran their own live demonstration of failure on the air, cheekily rebroadcasting the segment “The moment 5G fails live on air.” In explaining what had gone wrong when they tried to broadcast live from a busy street, reporters noted that the actual broadcast speed was but 5 percent of what had been promised. In truth, 5G systems remain works in progress with the U.S. trying to figure it out while we build it and hardly living up to its billing as the second coming in telecommunications. Demonstrations of the whiz-bang capacity of 5G have fallen spectacularly flat from Hawaii to Chicago, where speed tests briefly appeared solid but downloads stalled, sometimes blocked by hands that interfere with infrared and other sensors built into costly 5G phones.

FCC Dismisses NOAA Concerns for Weather Prediction

If 5G as currently posed were to become widespread, the capacity to forecast weather will be set back almost 4 decades, warns expert analysts from the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration. Although he is not known to have meteorological competence, in remarks to a Senate oversight committee this week, FCC Chairman, Ajit Pai, dismisses the concerns of NOAA Assistant Secretary Neil Jacobs who had previously testified to a House hearing on May 16, that lead times for hurricane forecasts would be cut by two to three days and that global satellite systems would be jeopardized.

Wired Systems Faster, Safer, More Secure

With so many localities objecting to new antennas essential to the 5G network, companies admitting their financial vulnerabilities to their shareholders, and scientists recognizing that currently anticipated 5G exposures exceed safety guidelines and also endanger weather prediction, another option urgently needs to be considered: Rather than insisting that 5G be transmitted wirelessly throughout the urban environment, hard-wired fiber-optic cable should be provided directly to and through military, medical, corporate and research facilities. This would be faster, safer and more secure and would avoid wirelessly radiating millions of unsuspecting citizens and critically sensitive wildlife, as well as mucking up disaster preparedness by interfering with systems critical to meteorological forecasts.

Devra Davis is an award-winning writer and Visiting Professor of Medicine, The Hebrew University, and President of Environmental Health Trust, a Jackson-Wyoming based scientific think tank, and the author of more than 220 scientific publications and the books Disconnect — the truth about cell phone radiation and The Secret History of the War on Cancer.

https://medium.com/@devradavis/pend...-telecoms-uninsurable-5g-network-cffc43f61e8b
 

Freeholder

This too shall pass.
*IF* property values dropped enough, some of that land could actually be desirable to those who know how to make their properties more resistant to fire.

First, you wouldn't want subdivision lots where you couldn't control vegetation near your own house -- you would need several acres at least.

Second, make a fire-break zone around your house with fire-resistant vegetation, or no vegetation at all.

Third, build a fire-resistant house -- masonry and metal, no wood in the exterior. Be able to close up the windows with metal shutters.

Fourth, have a water tank, preferably higher than the house so you can have gravity flow even if you lose power, and the ability to wet things down if a fire does get close.

Fifth, keep tools handy for fighting fire --shovels, pulaskis, burlap bags to wet down and swat sparks, and so on. Extra hoses, too.

There's more that could be done, but that's what comes to mind right off the bat. The thing is, California may be a wreck NOW, but that doesn't mean it always will be, and it does, for the most part, have a desirable climate. So these are things to keep in mind for sometime in the future.

Kathleen
 

poppy

Veteran Member
And every house located in a flood plain that is destroyed by floods gets rebuilt - again and again.

Not here. Once flooded you can no longer buy insurance so no one builds there. A nice small community of about 50 houses just north of us, Birds Illinois, was badly flooded about 20 years ago in the worst flood in over 100 years. Insurers paid the value of the homes but would not insure future buildings there. No homes there now.
 

Kathy in FL

Administrator
_______________
Welcome to the world Florida has been living with for over a decade now. Insurance for houses built on the coast since the series of five hurricanes that struck the state made it next to impossible to get insurance. The state started a fund that has since finally sold off the last of its policies to other providers but cost of insurance remains exorbitant and will always be so. It was artificially cheap for too many decades. Home owner insurance and property taxes are the two main barriers to home ownership in this state. It simply isn't affordable on a minimum wage job … as it should be. Home ownership is a privilege, not a right. You want to own your home then you need to be willing to do the necessary to make that happen. And you shouldn't get to insure your property with other people taking the majority of the risk. You want to live on the coast, flood plain, fire zone, or mud slide prone areas then suck it up buttercup and pay the price yourself.
 

hiwall

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Checking on property taxes and home insurance prices should be part of any new home search. It was for us. Our taxes and home owners insurance together are way less than a thousand dollars per year.
 

ShadowMan

Designated Grumpy Old Fart
One answer no one seems to consider is FIRE PROOF HOMES. We can build homes to resist floods, hurricanes, earthquakes why not fire. My first thought woulf be a "Hobbit" style house. Batten down the hatches and simply let the fire pass. Or perhaps a wet down system to cover the home in a water curtain until the.fire passes. Come people we're more than smart enough to figure this out.
 

marsh

On TB every waking moment
Lenders require insurance to protect their investment.

In the Paradise fire, the specialty high risk insurer went bankrupt and people didn't get their money.
 

20Gauge

TB Fanatic
Welcome to the world Florida has been living with for over a decade now. Insurance for houses built on the coast since the series of five hurricanes that struck the state made it next to impossible to get insurance. The state started a fund that has since finally sold off the last of its policies to other providers but cost of insurance remains exorbitant and will always be so. It was artificially cheap for too many decades. Home owner insurance and property taxes are the two main barriers to home ownership in this state. It simply isn't affordable on a minimum wage job … as it should be. Home ownership is a privilege, not a right. You want to own your home then you need to be willing to do the necessary to make that happen. And you shouldn't get to insure your property with other people taking the majority of the risk. You want to live on the coast, flood plain, fire zone, or mud slide prone areas then suck it up buttercup and pay the price yourself.

This is a very good point.

If you can't afford it, don't buy it.

The thing is the state will step in over and over again to "subsidize" the cost of insurance whether it be flood, fire or wind if it perceives a need. The idea being they will help keep housing prices up and thus revenues for the state in the form of property taxes, etc.
 

20Gauge

TB Fanatic
Checking on property taxes and home insurance prices should be part of any new home search. It was for us. Our taxes and home owners insurance together are way less than a thousand dollars per year.

I thought so also, but I can name at least two people I know who have no idea what they pay for either. It is just part of the payment.
 

Jacki

Senior Member
We live next to a creek/small river in OR. In Christmas '64 there was a flood. Lost Creek rose maybe three feet. My folks house is about 70 feet up from the creek. They had major fights with the government about the need for flood insurance.

Three years ago the folks across the road went through the same fight. A appears that the people who were claiming that we lived in a flood plain didn't have a topo map, and only looked at a map with no elevation which made it look like we could fall in the creek from our deck.
 

20Gauge

TB Fanatic
We live next to a creek/small river in OR. In Christmas '64 there was a flood. Lost Creek rose maybe three feet. My folks house is about 70 feet up from the creek. They had major fights with the government about the need for flood insurance.

Three years ago the folks across the road went through the same fight. A appears that the people who were claiming that we lived in a flood plain didn't have a topo map, and only looked at a map with no elevation which made it look like we could fall in the creek from our deck.

Good thing for the topo map. In our area, they just did a new one and it turns out the only house in the area that is above flood level is our house. We could have told them that, but they decided to spend the money. Good thing they did, we were able to cancel our flood insurance.
 

Laurane

Canadian Loonie
If this becomes official, that should lower the real estate prices in those fire-prone areas......

Good time to buy if you want to live there, soon.
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
If this becomes official, that should lower the real estate prices in those fire-prone areas......

Good time to buy if you want to live there, soon.

Or good time for mega-corporate investors and/or large landholders to buy things up for pennies on the dollar.
 
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